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 |  engine rebuild -- mike, 01/27/2001
Hi there i got a 69 428cj it`s 30 over aluminum intake,stock heads,and a forged steel crank and double roller timing chain.my ? is what cam do you think i should put in this motor.and how much horsepower do you think i will get out of it.thanks for any comments. |
|  | RE: engine rebuild -- Stanley Superior, 01/27/2001
If its a 428 then it dont have a steel crank,it is a cast nodular iron crank. A good cam to go with is the factory CJ cam or a reproduction of one. You will be very lucky to get 375 HP out of this combo,most (not all) 428's are done by 4800 RPM,so theres no need to twist it any higher. |
| |  | RE: engine rebuild -- Mario Van Wiechen, 01/28/2001
Good to see you still dont have a clue Stanley. The CJ cam has really lazy ramps and the duration numbers are misleading because of that. A newer dual pattern cam will really wake the engine up.
I run my CJ to 6200 every pass and am making good power there too. Around 530 going by my mph. |
| | | RE: engine rebuild -- Brian, 01/29/2001
Ya know Stanley. I can tell by your comments. You haven't any experience with engines period!! I have put more 428s& FEs together than, I'd guess you have seen? NONE of which were done making power at 4800 rpm.
I have seen many misleading comments by you here. Some of the guys are trying to learn and want constructive information. So when you don't know the real answers just keep quiet. Your doing no justice by misleading the novice. I'm trying to be nice here also BLUNT |
| | |  | RE: engine rebuild -- Mario Van Wiechen, 01/30/2001
I will have to assume the first sentence was directed at me and the rest at Stanley. |
| | | RE: engine rebuild -- Mark, 02/02/2001
there is a pretty good engine parts combination guide on
www.amotion.com
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|  | RE: engine rebuild -- Ed Foral, 01/28/2001
What intake are you running?
You can easily make impressive HP with one of the off the shelf cams such as the Edelbrock Performer RPM, but you sacrifice streetability.
If you want a pile of power and good manners, a split pattern such as the Crane 343801 will do you well, and not be unruly.
If it is a grocery getter and more show with little worries about go, then the GT/CJ cam is fine, as it will give you zip, but is not the best choice for serious performance.
Ed |
| | | RE: engine rebuild -- mike, 01/28/2001
I`m running a police interceter intake and i do have a steel crank.I what the car to go don`t just show.I`ll have a 750 cfm carb on top of it.Thanks mike |
| | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Mario Van Wiechen, 01/28/2001
Interested to know where you got the steel crank. The only 428 steel cranks I know off are billet or heavily reworked 391/427 cranks.
I bracket race a 428 and am using a small Comp Cams roller in mine and beleive it would work well in a well prepared street car. I use the straight 288R cam but after using it I would reccomend the 288R intake lobe with the 308R exhaust lobe. The engine would still idle at 1000 or so and pull to the 7000 your steel crank is good for.
What intake are you using, a Blue Thunder with welded crossover would be a good option.
You need an 850 to go with the other peices.
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| | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- mike, 01/28/2001
don`t know where the crank came from it was in the car when i bought it. the guy did not tell me,and i forgot to ask.At the moment i have a aluminum police intercepter intake on it now.the car will see some track time.But i what the car to haul ass on the road to kick the chevys butts if you know what i mean. thanks mike. |
| | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Stanley Superior, 01/28/2001
Even if you stuck a big nasty roller in there with lots of compression,you would be hard pressed to get over 400 ponies from it. I would suggest a hit of NOS for your speed needs. |
| | | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Brian, 01/29/2001
There you are again Stanley Stupid. There are many guys here giving good info with the right answers. I don't understand why Mr. Fomoco has left you here to be a menace so long?You need sent back to la la land or whereever you come from? |
| | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Ed Foral, 01/28/2001
Have you had the engine apart to verify what parts are in it?
I wouldn't go twisting alot of RPM without knowing exactly what you have. Even if the crank is steel, it will not do you any good with a set of stock rods, or with the stock 428 block with its oiling system. Did you verify the stroke?
What car is this engine in, how quick do you want it to go, and how do you want it to idle?
425+ horsepower is child's play with a 428, but you have to decide on whether you need mild idle characteristics first.
Ed |
| | | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- mike, 01/29/2001
The engine is apart now and i checked the crank out at a machine shop.The engine is in a 69 mach1i want it to idle a little on the rough side.Inthe quarter mile i`d like to see something in the low to mid 11`s.Itdoes have the stock rods in it however.The motor is 30 over.What would you do with it if it were yours without going to crazy on the money end of it.Seeing how im a rookie at this engine building.Any advise would be helpful.Thanks mike. |
| | | | | Strong rumor -- Dave Shoe, 01/30/2001
I've heard a strong rumor that some agricultural and industrial products may have gotten forged steel 428 cranks.
I have been heavily researching the ag/industrial angle for about two weeks and am keeping my eyes open.
I did just learn that Ford had an industrial OHV V-8 family of 302 and 332 displacements in the late '50s-early '60s which has a couple similarities to the Y-block. Apparently, Ford called that 332 engine an "L332". It had a 3.80 bore and a 3.66 stroke and made 161HP in 2V trim and 166HP with a 4 barrel.
There's lotsa weird Ford stuff out there.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | RE: Strong rumor -- Ross, 01/31/2001
Shoe, seen a lot of the 428 industrial motors and even a few 427's, much like the boat motors (side oiler casting drilled for center oiling) With at least 75 of these motors passing through my buddy's and a handful through mine, I have never seen anything with a steel crank. The 427's use cast 390 cranks usually, and the 428's use a 1UB usually, but 1U's as well. All the pistons on the 428 say "SUPER" but dont look like anything special. I would say the rumor is false, but who knows
On top of that, many of the 428 cranks are junk, they drive the irrigation pumps off of a multi shieve pulley off the front, and the cast cranks dont like it a bit. Generally it takes 3-4 to find a good one, and even then I consider myself lucky. |
| | | | | | | RE: Strong rumor -- Dave Shoe, 01/31/2001
Ross,
Can you put me onto the trail of any good ag/industrial tech literature for these motors or the equipment they went in?
I seek model numbers and manufacturers names in order to figure out where to start looking for this stuff.
I'm starting to find a couple of farm resources, but I haven't exactly busted the grain elevator doors open and struck the motherlode. Haven't had any luck finding manufacturers names or model numbers for irrigation pumps.
One chap I spoke with mentioned that his dad had a buncha 428FE (tandem drive?!?) and 413 Chrysler powered irrigation pumps. His dad liked the 413s but the 428s were nothing but trouble. Sounds like it might have been some more inappropriate crankshaft power attachment issues. It's a wonder what one idiot design engineer can do to make or break an engines reputation.
I wonder if the steel crank might have been a final-production-year solution to solve chronic crank failures? I believe it was Ron Miller (FPP) who mentioned that 428 Forged steel cranks could be found in some farm machinery (I just did a quick search and didn't find Ron's post). As soon as I dig up some literature, I'm gonna scan and post it. This farm/industrial stuff is fun to research.
Again: The 428 forged crank remains only a rumor.
Again, again: Thanks for all your info, Ross.
As for the 428 "Super" pistons, that's the piston used in CJ and SCJ motors from Dec 1968 and later (3rd gen CJ, 2nd gen SCJ). They have notable meat added in the pin boss area. Sounds like the later ag 428s got the reinforced CJ type of cast piston.
Also, my present suspicion is that CJ and SCJ engines got identical pistons, but the SCJs were graded for a couple tenths more bore clearance and thus got a different service number. This is only a rumor, but it is also the only thing that makes much sense right now.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | RE: Strong rumor -- john, 02/02/2001
Those ag/industrial 428`s, did they have "special" gaskets too?
John |
| | | | | | there is a 428 forged crank! -- ANT, 02/01/2001
Yea ah guys?
Much to my suprise as it will be to yours, I found 2 BRAND NEW FORGED 428 STEEL CRANKS FOR SALE. Go to ebay and search under "ford 428" and you will see them !! |
| | | | | | | RE: there is a 428 forged crank! -- ANT, 02/02/2001
I meant to say search for "Ford 428" on Ebay |
| | | | | | | 427 cranks on E-Bay -- Ed Foral, 02/03/2001
They call them C4AE-G cranks, and this number is seen in the picture. They are obviously not originally any type of 428 crank and have been modified/machined to the current stroke.
Ed |
| | | | | | there is a 428 forged crank! -- ANT, 02/01/2001
Yea ah guys?
Much to my suprise as it will be to yours, I found 2 BRAND NEW FORGED 428 STEEL CRANKS FOR SALE. Go to ebay and search under "ford 428" and you will see them !! |
| | | | | | there is a 428 forged crank! -- ANT, 02/01/2001
Yea ah guys?
Much to my suprise as it will be to yours, I found 2 BRAND NEW FORGED 428 STEEL CRANKS FOR SALE. Go to ebay and search under "ford 428" and you will see them !! |
| | | | | | | Your dreaming...WAKE UP! -- Dave Shoe, 02/02/2001
Thanks Ant.
Looks like the real deal.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | RE: Your dreaming...WAKE UP! NIGHTMARE!! -- Paul, 02/02/2001
You know, I haven't comunacaited in any way shape or form with these people, so all I have to go on is their web site. It says they sell forged 428 cranks with their rebuild kits.
http://www.speedomotive.com/Rebuild%20Kits.htm
I don't know lot about this stuff, so I hope I'm not out of line. |
| | | | | | | | | RE: Your dreaming...WAKE UP! NIGHTMARE!! -- Paul, 02/02/2001
Dummey Me : Thats Pistons they'er talking about |
| | | RE: engine rebuild -- mike, 01/30/2001
ED if i put the crane 343801 in should i replace the stock valve springs with heavier springs.And thanks for all the info guys it`s been helpful.mike. |
| | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Ed Foral, 01/30/2001
Mike
Yes you would have to upgrade your springs and other components. I would recommend new high quality shafts and a good adjustable rocker such as the roller tipped Harland Sharps. There are full roller options, but I am sure that you would not want to spend the $800 on them.
Low to mid 11's adds a little twist to the story.
First thing, you have to put money into your chassis. Cal Trac bars in back with fresh springs is in order. You can talk to them on their tech line to see what spring they recommend. Plan on running slicks, and upgrading your axle assy to meet the stress.
I would personally sell the steel crank to someone else, and get a good standard(notSCJ) crank. The weight is a handicap for your engine. I would also go with an aftermarket rod such as the Eagle. I am assuming that you're going to be running a good set of headers.
What transmission are you running?
You should talk to Kuntz and Company, or one of the engine builders for your cam selection at this point. If you are serious about such a low ET, and still be streetable, you are stepping up the amount of cash it will cost for your combo.
Ed |
| | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Rusty, 01/31/2001
I agree with Ed, a streetable combo that will run low to mid 11's is going to be expensive. Cal Track bars are great (but you've got to know how to adjust them). I have run C4's behind my F.E.'s for years and think that is the only way to go (worth at least 2 tenths). The bellhousings are kind of hard to find though. I also use a lot of Eagle Rods. I think they are the best bang for the buck for a HP F.E. engine.
Rusty |
| | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- BOB HOPKINS, 01/31/2001
Bellhousing for a F E engine to conect to a C-4 what kind of vehicledoes this bellhousing come out of??
Other than aftermarket?? |
| | | | | | | RE: engine rebuild -- Rusty, 01/31/2001
You can modify an aluminum cruise'o'matic bellhousing or you can buy an aftermarket. If you have serious know-how and equipment, you can cut the front off of a C6 trans, weld on a plate, and make your own.
Rusty |
| 65 427 cast headers -- dale, 01/27/2001
anybody have or know where i can find a set of fact.427 cast headers or steel headers for 427 and 4spd trans?thanks,dale |
| What is the distance between carbs' centers for: -- Matti, 01/26/2001
1) straight-line dual quad setup
2) straight-line 3x2 setup.
Needed for air cleaner drilling.
Thank you |
| 428cj? -- Julie, 01/25/2001
Where would the engine ID (428cj) on the engine be located. My hubby is having trouble finding any number at all. The engine is in a 1970 f-100 right now, but we're hoping to find a 1968-1972 car to put it into.
thank you. |
| 9 3/8" Center section -- Steve Gundlach, 01/24/2001
Can anyone tell me how to identify or tell the difference between a 9" and a 9 3/8" reare end? |
| | RE: 9 3/8" Center section -- martin edridge, 01/25/2001
The numbers (9", 9 3/8") relate to the ring gear diameter, but you can only measure that if it's apart. I guess you want to ID one in the dirt? 9" diffs have ribs running vertically and horizontally across the housing in the pinion area of the 'pumpkin'. 9 3/8 are similar but with a major change which makes them easily identifiable, in that there is a 'squiggly' rib running from top left down to bottom right of the housing. Bit like a letter 'S'. Hard to explain and a pic would show you but you get the idea. HTH
Cheers, Martin |
| 460 cu. in. engine -- Bill Hartman, 01/24/2001
I am building a Cobra replica, and have a 1972 Lincoln 460 cu. in. engine which I plan to install. Can anyone tell me what the factory horsepower rating on this engine is? Please respond to "billhartman@hotmail.com".
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Bill |
| | 212 hp@4400rpm; 342 lb/ft@4800rpm [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/25/2001
n/m |
| What gives . . .? -- Orin, 01/24/2001
OK, this is NOT a question about an FE, but I thought maybe one of the epxerts here could answer it because no one on the General Forum knew the answer.
After rebuilding my 289-2V, the guy gave me back a bunch of the parts, including the old rocker arms. Each rocker arm has an "A" and a three-digit number stamped -- not cast -- into the top. Each number is different and they are not consecutive, i.e. 425, 123, 597 etc..
Any idea what they are for? |
| | RE: What gives . . .? -- Royce Peterson, 01/25/2001
If you have ever purchased a model car kit then you know how those rockers were cast. The numbers were in the molds. If defects started to turn up in rockers with for example 425 on them then they would know which mold to look at. You should really ask such questions on the other forum so that the answer can be shared by the guys who would benefit from it the most.
Royce Peterson
Here's a couple pics of my new 427!
 |
| | | Second 427 Pic -- Royce Peterson, 01/25/2001
n/m
 |
| | Some cast IDs are 'debossed'. You sure they're stamped? [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/26/2001
n/m |
| | | Pretty sure. -- Orin, 01/26/2001
All of the casting numbers I've seen on FoMoCo stuff were raised, and stamped numbers were indented. The process used on the rocker arms looked very similar to the build-date code stamped on the little tab on the front driverside head.
Plus the numbers were not always in the exact same place, with variations of up to 1/4" north-south and east-west.
I too thought they may be mold numbers; but did they need THAt many molds just for rocker arms? (I guess so, if you making 1 million-plus 289s each year and they all need 16 rocker arms.)
Mr F, if you want want to look at one I'd be happy to send it along. Let me know.
|
| | | | RE; Hey Royce, Nice 69' Ranchero- heh? -- Tom, 01/26/2001
Looks great! I remember the feeling quite well. What application ? tom |
| | | | | RE; Hey Royce, Nice 69' Ranchero- heh? -- Royce Peterson, 01/26/2001
The 427 is for my project car, a '68 Cougar GTE (blue). It will be stock appearing but has a "stroker" 428 CJ crank, CJ rods w/ARP bolts, Zero - decked with lightened pistons, balanced for use with CJ flex plate (no hatchet weight because no heavy LeMans rods). Heads will be 428 CJ with usual stainless valves and bronze guides, FPP roller rockers and stands, Isky 600# springs, Comp Cams 282 solid cam. The car has a 3.50 rear with Detroit Locker and a C6 auto trans. Intake will be stock PI style part #C7AE and stock Holley 600 CFM part #C8 - AD. I am using stock exhaust manifolds so the cam is mild. Should have mountains of torque!
The Elco has a 402 - 4V and doesn't need any other types of engine. I was looking for a 68-69 Ranchero but couldn't find a good one to buy!
Royce Peterson
68 GTE 427 XR-7 (two of them)
68 1/2 XR-7 428 CJ
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| | | | | | RE; Hey Royce, Nice 69' Ranchero- heh? -- Tom, 01/26/2001
Sounds like a great project- if I see that cougar again I'll be sure to get a address and what not. |
| | | | | | RE; Hey Royce, Nice 69' Ranchero- heh? -- Rusty, 01/26/2001
Royce,
I'm not sure where you are located, but I've got a really clean '68 390 GT Ranchero that I'm getting ready to part with. It's red with white interior.
Rusty |
| 332cid. parts. -- Kevin Gill, 01/23/2001
I've got a '59 Edsel w/a 332 in it. I want to put a 4-barrel aluminum intake and some Aluminum vave covers and air cleaner on it. Does anyone have the parts that I need to do this job? I'm just wanting it to look better under the hood.
Thanks in advance. |
| | RE: 332cid. parts. -- T1M, 01/24/2001
I dont' have any of the parts you need to sell to you. But try Edelbrock.com
I know they have the aluminum intake, I've seen it. I'm sure they have the valve covers and air cleaner too. |
| | Remember - check our Classifieds & post a 'wanted' ad [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/25/2001
n/m |
| HORSEPOWER CURIOUS on 352 -- Paul, 01/23/2001
I just installed/replaced intake with Edelbrock Performer and a 600 cfm Edelbrock carb, new duals with 2.5" pipe and Hooker Aerochamber mufflers. I am curious what kind of power I added over the stock 2V factory carb, intake and muffler set-up. Any imput is greatly appreciated |
| | RE: HORSEPOWER CURIOUS on 352 -- KarlJay, 01/23/2001
Going from stock single to true duals is good, but the real gain is in headers.
Most say 40~50 HP gain when converting a 390 from stock exhaust to headers, with a 352 I'd say 30. The Performer is not much better than a stock S code 390GT intake, just lighter. A pretty good choice for heavy trucks and the 352.
I'd look for a 25~35 HP gain, but you should consider long headers, you've already got the rest of the setup for it. |
| | | RE: HORSEPOWER CURIOUS on 352 -- Paul, 01/26/2001
KarlJay, thanks for the input, where or what would be a source for headers? I have checked the major brand names i.e. Hooker, Hedman and no one seems to manufacture headers for a 352. |
| | | | RE: HORSEPOWER CURIOUS on 352 -- Paul K, 01/26/2001
If I were you I would go down to a performance shop that has a set of headers for a 390 in stock. I was told that they would bolt on depending on the year of the engine. I was also told that the same headers fit the 360ci engine in the FE series. Did you do any porting of the exhaust? What kind of cam are you using? |
| | | | | RE: Headers -- Paul, 01/26/2001
My year is 65. 390 or 360 I'll check that out. My engine is stock in terms of cam and no porting has been done to my knowledge. I am thinking someday of adding a beefier cam. Do you have any recommendations on cam, lifters etc.? |
| | | | | | RE: Headers -- KarlJay, 01/27/2001
What is the app, car / truck?
the headers are the same for the 352/360/390, Jegs sells them for trucks, but I've never checked any of the other apps.
As for cam, the FE responds best to dual pattern cams, more lift & dur on the exhaust side to compesate for not too good exhaust ports. I'm using the Crower Beast 16903 for my F250 4X4 and so far I like it. I haven't compared it to any others and I built the engine all at once, so I don't know how much difference it made.
I went from a stock 360 in poor condition to a 428 with many mods, so it's tough to know what effect each item has had.
Generally the 214~220 dur @ 50 and 500~550 lift works well for the street, but this depends on how heavy the car/truck is and where you want the power to be. the Crower I have is from 1300 to 3800 rpm with 5300+ redline, and is designed for very agressive torque. |
| | | | | | | Thanks KarlJay -- Paul, 01/30/2001
Hey thanks alot Karl Jay |
| | | | | | | | RE: Thanks KarlJay -- Paul K., 02/06/2001
If you got some spare cash you could invest in a desk top dyno program and play with the cam profiles on your computer before you buy it! I have the program for my own use and find it quite useful! I think what you will have to think about first is what kind of performance do you want- low end tork or high end HP?
Check out the web at www.motionsoftware.com. Right now there is a special with the cam disk and the dyno program.
Paul K. |
| | | | | | | | | RE: Thanks KarlJay -- Paul K., 02/07/2001
In 1960 there was a high output 352 that harnessed 360 hp! This particular version was a high rever and was used mostly in the police crusers of that era. I have been informed that it might of had the same profile cam as the 401 hp 390ci engine that was produced between 61 and 63. If you can find a 410ci engine(mercury) It has the same type of head with the larger exhaust port and they scope out to close to the 428 ci heads. except the valve size. the 352 HP had a head chamber size of 59 to 62 cc rather than the standard 70 to 74 cc. acording to another chart that I have the exhaust port stayed the same for a few years
OH another note is that the intake manifold on the 352 HP was a medium riser intake.
In the end It all boils down to $ and which way you want to spend it.
Paul K. |
| headers -- Charlie, 01/23/2001
Will the 406 shorty headers fit into a 65 galaxie with a 390, 4 speed tranny, and power steering? |
| | RE: headers -- Stanley Superior, 01/23/2001
Yes they will, with no problems. |
| | | RE: headers -- T1M, 01/24/2001
How can you be sure about the parts you find on Ebay? There's no way to examine them closely enough to be sure about the integrity of the part your buying is there? If you pay for it and receive it, and find out it's no good then it's just you haggling the seller over the phone about it . Just curious. And no, this isn't a scheme to dissuade from buying those headers so I can buy them, but it's tempting. ;-) |
| | | | Use UPS/COD -- mcj67, 01/28/2001
Hello Tim, What I usually do if the seller will ship UPS-COD, or Fedex-COD, is before paying the driver, open the package and examine it to confirm that it is the correct part in the as advertised condition. Generaly for the carrier to be responsbile for any shipping damages the delivery is suposed to be opened and inspected at the time of delivery in front of the driver, this is seldom followed because of the volume of packages and the time involved, but is the policy from what I understand. So for this reason you can open and inspect the goods before paying. If you refuse the shipment the seller has to pay the return shipping cost, and for this reason a lot of sellers don't like to use COD. Larger items that use a freight Co. I am not sure about, I don't know if freight will move by COD.or not, but if it does you proubly could do it that way also, Just remember if you tell the seller you will diffenitly accept the shipment and then refuse it he may give you a negative review on the ebay buyer seller rating history(as long as he has e-mail verifing your statment), now if you pay the return shipping cost he should not have a problem. So far I have not had to return anything, I wont buy anything that does not have pictures, a lot of time you can e-mail to get better pictures, different angels, and more info about items. good luck Mike Jones |
| | | | | thanks mcj67! Good to know![n/m] -- T1M, 01/28/2001
[n/m] |
| | | | | Pre-inspection of CODs is against UPS rules [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/29/2001
n/m |
| | | | | use escrow service -- joe ligon, 01/29/2001
if in doubt use one of the escrow services.you send them the money they notify the seller money is received.you have 3days(i think) to examine the part. you then either authorize the payment or return the part. thats the best way to not be sore and wishing for vaseline when buying parts sight unseen.
joe |
| | | | | | does Pay Pal on ebay work this way? n/m -- mcj67, 01/30/2001
n/m |
| | | RE: headers -- Charlie, 01/24/2001
Stanley
send me an email message with phone number so I could call and discuss CW |
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