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![Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=4265&Reply=4265><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a> <b>428 "s what's what?? need help</b> -- <font color=#0000ff>crossy, <i>01/19/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have just purchased an older truck that may have a 428 CJ transplanted into it .I have known the truck for a very long time and saw it run 12's in the late 70's [that's flying even today].I need to know specifically how I can tell which of the many configurations of FE 428's that this might be .part numbers of head and block were different right ? it already had an aftermarket intake & carb.I know this has probably been gone over here a few times ,but humor me as I am fairly new .Please e-mail me at all4trux@snip.net .thanx, DAVE </blockquote>](/WebResource.axd?d=lIhYVYeLZitD6XlgNHhEdwcr2vZcMlGUo2kIr_fptQ_l8X6kW0xpEmGZbgupcOlreYQ8zTVqPQHktX2MtfGPIB3Emptk5O-RquRCtwpcfVEA3-gQTqy1gbDQ_ovVDlSv0&t=637814653746327080) |  428 "s what's what?? need help -- crossy, 01/19/2001
I have just purchased an older truck that may have a 428 CJ transplanted into it .I have known the truck for a very long time and saw it run 12's in the late 70's [that's flying even today].I need to know specifically how I can tell which of the many configurations of FE 428's that this might be .part numbers of head and block were different right ? it already had an aftermarket intake & carb.I know this has probably been gone over here a few times ,but humor me as I am fairly new .Please e-mail me at all4trux@snip.net .thanx, DAVE |
|  | RE: 428 "s what's what?? need help -- FE427TP, 01/20/2001
what are the head casting numbers? |
 | re: 390 blocks -- david, 01/19/2001
Many of you may have been reading my questions on heads and exhaust manifolds for my 390 in my 67 cougar, anyway I think now I have a different problem; I bought new motor mounts for my 390 from the parts house. I took them out of the box today and found that they werenot going to fit. I called the parts house and double checked part no.s', and they are the right ones so Im told. What I have is a 390 produced in 65 as I have the intact tag from the enine. The bolt pattern for the mounts is 3 tapped holes in the casting in a triangular pattern, two towards the front of the enine, one behind that. The mounts I bought have two bolt ears on them in a horizontal line. And of course the perpendicular ears that fit to the body with the long bolt that connects the two. Does anyone know if ford cast a different block in 65 from in 67 and latter. And if they did what the heck can I use for motor mounts? Thanks David |
| | RE: re: 390 blocks -- Rusty Johnson, 01/19/2001
I do know that early model F.E.'s used a (2) bolt pattern (pre 1965) and I think they were up and down. I think Crites Restoration makes motor mounts for your application.
Rusty |
| |  | RE: re: 390 blocks -- david, 01/19/2001
Rusty, Crites restoration is not one I have heard of. Do they have a sight or an adress or something that you can give me?
Thanks; David |
| | 67 Cougar 390 engine mounts -- mcj67, 01/21/2001
David, Going by my book (67 Ford, Cougar, Fairlane, Mustang)
There are four parts to each engine mount assembly.
1- Engine front support upper bracket, 6A069L.H. 6043R.H.
(this is the part that bolts to the block and has the three holes you mentioned.) From what I have read they changed from two to three bolt, or from three to four bolt paterns. What year they made this change I don't know.
2-Insulator assembly 6038
3-Engine front support lower bracket, 6A095L.H. 6A094R.H.
4-Lower bracket to frame brace, 6061L.H. 6037R.H.
I tried to upload a pic. of the page but I could not get it to work.
Maybe this will help you, Good luck Mike Jones |
| horsepower -- ben, 01/19/2001
what modifications are needed to net at least 1 horsepower per cubic inch displacement on both the 360 or 390 FE engines? all things being equal, i want 360 or 390 STREETABLE horsepower! is this unrealistic? thanks |
|  | 10.5:1 compression [nm] -- dj, 01/19/2001
[nm] |
| | RE: horsepower -- Rusty Johnson, 01/19/2001
With a 390, it is very easy to get to the 400HP level (even on a budget) with pump gas. You can do this with as low as 9.5:1 compression, the big factor is the heads, intake, cam and carb you use. I'm currenly building a 390 for a NHRA stocker application that has stock heads (C6AE-8090R) with no real port work, Police Intercepter Intake, Holley 735 Carb, 10.5:1 compression, 0.500 lift cam, etc that will make right at 500hp @ 6400 RPM with racing gas. Anyway, that's my two cents.
Rusty |
| | | RE: horsepower -- Mark, 01/19/2001
Rusty, what kinda duration on your cam? Since I don't know all heads by part #, are the C6AE heads the 2.19/1.60 valve heads? Are you using small or large tube headers? Sorry 'bout the 20 questions, but one more please, are you running a 7 qt or so sump?
Mark |
| | | | RE: horsepower -- Rusty, 01/19/2001
I'm not a totaly sure of the duration on the cam for the race engine. The valve sizes are 2.037/1.556 per NHRA rules and I use a 2.0" header. I'm thinking of having a 1-7/8" to 2.0" step header built for this application though. I run the original 427 7qt pans, but am starting to buy the Milodon 7qt pans because the baffling is better for drag racing. I have to modify the original 427 pans (add more baffling in the back of the pan). |
| | | | | RE: horsepower -- Neppy, 01/19/2001
Was there a standard size valve for the big R heads? '66 Ford manual lists 2.022-2.037 int. and 1.551-1.566 exh. but was there actually one size from the factory? The heads are on a '66 352 Galaxie, by the way. Not really a big issue, just curious. |
| | | | | | RE: horsepower -- Rusty, 01/19/2001
I not sure about that. I suspect that the size range was probably a tolerance that worked with the factory seat grinding, but that's a guess.
Rusty |
| | | | | | | RE: horsepower -- Stanley Superior, 01/24/2001
Ben,I think you'll be hard pressed to squeeze 400 ponies out of a combo using stock Ford parts. The heads are the biggest stumbling block in the system. You will definately want to use headers for your build-up because the stock log type manifolds are working against the exauhst system. Edelbrock heads would be the best way to go with this set-up because the factory castings flow only marginally better than the old flathead and Y-block V-8's. Streetable is a reletive term,it all boils down to what your definition of streetable is compared to next guy's definition of what streetable is. For a truck application,you want torque,and lots of it. Forget about trying to make a 360 run good,go with the 390,its got more inches! |
| Air Cleaner Ford-Merc. -- Brian Anderson, 01/18/2001
Are there any differences between 390 GT air cleaner assys. on a 1967 Fairlane and a 1967 Comet? |
| | Yes, Fairlane & Comet units are identical [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/18/2001
n/m |
| 1967 ford truck -- charles, 01/17/2001
I have recently bought a 67 ford 1\2 ton tk. it has a 352 engine i've rebuilt a few smallblocks but don't know much about this motor can anybody help? just need to know what kind of power to expect and if there are any performance parts available.please help. |
| | RE: 1967 ford truck -- ANDY, 01/17/2001
Buy two books. 'FORD PERFORMANCE' an SA Design publication and HOW TO REBUILD YOUR BIG BLOCK FORD by Steve Christ (I think). Both are excellent and full of info. In fact I think any Fordaphile should at least have FORD PERFORMANCE in their library. |
| | RE: 1967 ford truck -- Jim D, 01/18/2001
Yeah, Andy's right pick up these books if you really want to learn. But to answer your question, the 352 is not a performance dynamo. In the FE class engines, one cannot really expect to get into serious performance until they move up to the 390 or better. Yes, there is an abundance of performance parts you can use in the FE motors and most parts are interchangable. A good place to start looking is in the Summit Racing and Jegs catalogs. An awesome site for info about trucks is the Ford Trucks Enthusiasts site. |
| | RE: 1967 ford truck -- dj, 01/18/2001
Often overshadowed by the rest of the FE family, plenty of power can be had out of the 352. For example, the '60 HP, rated at 360 hp, and almost 400 ft/lbs. of torque. The answer is give it some compression. The cobra jet cam has been my favorite performer. It idles smooth, and roars like a lion when needed. Lots of luck! |
| | RE: 1967 ford truck -- geo, 01/18/2001
Mabye I don't know what I'm talking about, but perhaps your 352 is either a 361 or 391. If you know for a fact that it is a 352 ignore me. You may be under a false impression as I was when I first bought my 67 LTD. I thought it was a 352 as well, as evidenced by the "352" cast on the block, but it turned out to be a 390 (much to my happiness). If you find the part #'s cast on block(usually behind or near the starter) the boys(girls?) on this forum have proven themselves quite adept at IDing parts.
Just a thought....
geo |
| | RE: 1967 ford truck -- KarlJay, 01/18/2001
The best performance upgrade is to convert over to a 390. You might be able to make a 352 into a 390, but I don't care for boring past about 60, and the 360/390 blocks are everywhere and cheap!
I'd opt to get a $50-$150 390 from junk yard and rebuild it, using good parts and oiling mods suggested in the books mentioned in the other posts.
A stock 390 will perform excellent, but a mild cam and headers will add a lot. Also, dump the points and upgrade to electronic ign. either Pertronix or stock 76 ford. |
| Need some ID -- J. Robb, 01/17/2001
I have a C8AE-H casting number on the head.
The casting number on the crank is 3U.
I have to look harder for the number on the block...
Are these original equipment on a 69 390 "IP", or something else?
Thanks for any help. |
| | RE: Need some ID -- Ed Foral, 01/17/2001
Those numbers are found 68 thru 70's 390's. There is a date cast on your heads under the valve covers, and the block below the oil filter adapter.
Ed |
| Pics of Belts Configuration of 428CJ with A/C -- Rick Thompson, 01/17/2001
Mansfield Mustang sent me some great pictures of 428CJ with A/C that show the belt configuration. The engine is out of the car. One is a pic with all belts installed. Others pics are with one installed per device. So you can see how the A/C belt runs, Alt. Belt, Smog Pum belt, etc. If you want them, send me an email or post and I will email them to you. |
| | RE: Pics of Belts Configuration of 428CJ with A/C -- john, 01/17/2001
Thanks Rich. Great/grate pictures.
John |
| | RE: Pics of Belts Configuration of 428CJ with A/C -- Mike, 01/19/2001
Hi!
I'd like those pics if you could send them to me.....
thanks!
Mike |
| re; 360 and 390 heads -- david siedschlag, 01/17/2001
I need to put different heads on my 390 to get it to fit in my 67 cougar. I currently have 8 bolt heads that can't be drilled for 14 bolt because the material isn't there. I found a set of heads at salvage yard that has the extra bosses in place casting no. C8AE-H. I think they are on a 360 truck engine, early 70's. Will they work on the 390 I have? Are the 360 390 heads the same other than in the exhaust mounting holes?
david |
| | Those should be the same -- KarlJay, 01/17/2001
The C8AE-H heads are one of the most common FE heads and they came on 360, 390 and I think some 428s. What heads do you have now? |
| | | RE: How Interchangeable -- T Brooks, 01/17/2001
Are the FE engines and parts, per say, are they similiar to one another, from a 352-428. Is there a difference between Truck and Passenger car applications. Especially when working with limited space on a Cougar and you really don't want to "cut" the car. Right now I'm trying to figure what I have in a barn (Truck or passenger car) FE block(s). What makes me want to pursue this is memories of a Cousin's '66 LTD with 352 (air cleaner and badges said so) that worked well on moving that vehicle down the road in a hurry, wonders if a 352 or FE block of the like would work since some Cougars had FE's back in the day. Where to look for the codes on block and a site to decode these blocks. Thanks |
| | | | RE: How Interchangeable -- Jim D, 01/18/2001
T, the FE's are similar for the most part with a few notable exceptions, ie 410s & 428s are externally balanced, there were two rod lengths and the 427s were in a class of their own. If you really want to know more about FE's and interchangability pick up Steve Christ's book How to Rebuild Big Block Ford Engines. |
| | | RE: Those should be the same -- david, 01/18/2001
Karl; The FE I have came with C4AE. I can lay my hands on some C8AE. The only other question I have is do you know when they started with the harded seats? This would save me some bucks when doing valve job.
David |
| | | | RE: Those should be the same -- KarlJay, 01/18/2001
It was very late in the game. I think about 75 or so. I hate to say this, but don't chance it. I know all about how a $200 valve job becomes a $400 valve job and now the cheap rebuild is not looking so cheap anymore.
I just spend a VERY shinny penney on my setup and everything got more expensive as I got more into it.
Don't skimp on the hardened seats, you only need these on the exhaust side, and the current price should be $80-$100. Skimp on other things but not this, the unleaded gas is not kind to the standard head and this engine was generally not designed for unleaded gas.
By the way, the positive seal intake stem seals shouldn't cost any extra of very little extra. I like these as the old style just don't last and the engine sucks oil on the intake stems after a while.
I like to think of the 20 years of a good running trouble free engine that I'm going to have, as I reach for the check book, it helps with the price shock! But afterall it's just money, right? |
| 390 distibutor -- J. Robb, 01/16/2001
I pulled my 390 last week out of my 69 Cougar. I think this subject was covered in the past, and I just wanted to varify. I want to put a Duraspark II system on it, so can I get a 302 distributor and swap the internal components into the 390 dist. case? Will I need to use the original gear, or can I use the 302's gear? I'd probably go down to Napa and pick up a rebuilt distributor for 50 bucks, or is there a better way, if this will work at all? I'm not interested in an MSD box at this time.
32 years and this engine never came apart before.. found one disturbing thing, I know the cam gears have a tendancy to chip the plastic gear, but have you ever seen a gear with all the plastic completely gone (well, it was all in the bottom of the pan), just the chain on the inside aluminum gear with 2 teeth gone, and the car still ran?? I guess that is Ford Tough.. |
| | RE: 390 distibutor -- T1M, 01/16/2001
The same thing happened to me when I was replacing the oilpan gasket. some of the pieces were lodged in the oil pump screen and the rest were in the bottom of the pan. When I replaced the timing chain..MAN what a difference. |
| | RE: 390 distibutor -- Mark, 01/19/2001
Robb, when I yanked my 390 from my 68 Torino all the plastic was in the pan also, and the gear was worn almost flat or one side. I was amazed it still ran. The reason I tore it down was that after coming off the highway and stopping at a light I kept getting an low oil light. What was happening was all that plastic was clogging the screen.
Mark |
| More info to ID 427 -- David, 01/16/2001
This is a 427 with the cross bolt mains, and side oil gallery with screw in freeze plugs. The block has a casting "12 DIF" above the oil filter housing and it has an "E" with 3 or 4 digits below it of which two are "J2". These digits are upside down. I cant make out the first digit or the fourth. The E and J2 are below the oil filter housing. This block does not have any verticle casting lines. It does have 22648 stamped on each head front face as well as the block in front of the oil filter housing. Heads are C6AEF, date code is too painted over too see. Intake is C6AE9425-K, appears to be a sidewinder. No block casting number, just a raised smooth rectangular pad. Is this a service block or what? Engine rebuilt in 1985, sitting ever since, seller stated he did some drag racing with it but it was standard bore and only needed honing when rebuilt in 85. |
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