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 |  428cj Timing? -- marty vogler, 04/16/2001
My 428 cj has aprox. 500 miles since rebuild. It turns over fine when cold, however; once at operating temp it acts like the starter is dragging. The starter has been rebuilt. Could it be timing or my worse fear of the engine being too tight. |
|  | I blame the starter. -- Dave Shoe, 04/16/2001
In all my recent FE starter purchases, the darned thing just plain cranks slowly when warm. I've recently only used the NAPA premium rebuilt starters (4 or so) - but they crank just as slowly when warm, and they seem to die every bit as often as the common rebuilds.
The only sure answer is a mini-starter. These crank fast when the engine is hot.
I've only purchased a McCord (or some McName like that) mini-starter but it would not clear the Hooker SuperComp headers on a 428 Mustang, Fairlane, or Galaxie. The McCord would appear to work with stock exhaust manifolds, and probably with some headers made by other companies.
I've heard good things about the Tilton mini-starter, and several other mini-starters seem to get a good rap. Cost is a significant issue with these starters, but they apparently work well. You might try searching this forum for the key word "mini-starter" or "mini starter" to see what other threads have discussed this.
I expect I will soon switch over to a mini-starter. My current technique of pumping the carb to flood the motor does get a hot FE started every time, but the starter does still die after only a couple years of this type of stress.
I do seem to remember that factory starters worked much better back in 1975.
It's also possible that you are dropping a couple of volts in the battery cables during cranking, if you use the standard wires you find in the store. I believe I use 4-gauge wires everywhere, except in my trunk-mount applications I use 00-gauge high-flex welding wire.
Shoe. |
|  | RE: Well, what's it timed at -- RC Moser, 04/18/2001
I never had a slow winder I could fix, But maybe I was lucky. Course never owned a full race FE though. Heck I'd double check the timing, idle speed, dwell/points gap it you have them. only thing you have to loose is time. Might as well do a compression check also and check the plugs while you in their. Right down all this stuff, you might want to refer back to it sometime in the future. |
| |  | RE: Well, what's it timed at -- Tim B, 04/18/2001
I just had the same problem. They replaced the starter, checked plugs (OK), checked the compression (it was fine), but the timing was way off. And there was a nasty vacuum leak off the power brakes. Ran like %#@^* now it runs great again.
BTW I did find a great mechanic in SD. Roadside Assistance Service. 858-874-2961, Martin and his three sons. Very reasonable and know their stuff. |
| | RE: 428cj Timing? -- BrettL, 04/23/2001
I had the same trouble with my 428CJ I put in my XL500. Hard starting and dissapointing power for a 428. I had the distributor timing re-curved and WHAM, like turning on a light switch. It is set for 3deg BTDC, no Vac, accessories on, at 550rpm's. Total advance at crank 36deg with vac. Hope this helps.
There is no replacement for displacement. |
| Genesis 427 -- Rich, 04/16/2001
Has anyone heard any more about the Genesis 427 SO Blocks? |
| Edelbrock F-427 Aluminum Intake Manifold -- Rich, 04/16/2001
Someone had mentioned to me that the Edelbrock model F-427 Aluminum Intake Manifold was used on some original Cobras. Does any one know if there is any truth to this? I would have guessed that a PI Intake would have been used. |
| Looking for 428CJ oil recommendations -- Kyle Korzenowski, 04/15/2001
I have just completed a new 428CJ for my '69 Mach I (4-speed). Just wondering two things regarding oil:
1. What viscosity oil is recommended?
2. I am a fan of Mobil 1 synthetic, but have been told not to run synthetic until after approx. 5,000 miles with conventional oil. Can anyone advise?
Thanks!
Kyle |
|  | RE: Looking for 428CJ oil recommendations -- Dave Shoe, 04/16/2001
I keep hearing the same things about synthetics and new engines. I don't really believe it, but I don't have the resources to "research" oil, so I do use conventional oil for the first few thousand miles.
Synthetics are chemically superior and more stable over time and in harsh racing environments, but I don't believe they lubricate better than fresh conventional oil in a daily-driver road rocket that is kept in good running order (not overheated, etc).
I believe (possibly incorrectly) that regular oil, if changed regularly, is all an engine needs, just as long as ambient temperatures are above zero Fahrenheit. Below that, most synthetics just plain flow better, allowing easier cranking, and also providing reliable oil flow in the seconds and minutes just after start-up. Cold conventional oils can easily get too thick, allowing the oil pump pickup to "punch a hole" in the oil and draw air, especially since cold oil will return to the pan much more slowly.
I'm not super-fussy about oils, actually. It's my opinion that most FE oil-related engine failures are related to the oil-pump pickups drawing air because of an insufficient oil pan configuration. High-perf stock-pan FEs are VERY prone to doing this, and you can be sure that several warrantee failures of early CJ motors were related to the 5-quart oil pan capacity.
Early in the 428CJ life, Ford recalibrated the CJ dipstick to read "full" at six quarts. This was a cheap and easy way to keep the oil pump pickup tube bathed in oil a higher percentage of the time. The 428CJ was apparently (my guess) the first stock-pan FE which was fast enough to regularly dump too much oil out of the pan on acceleration.
I mainly use Mobil1 in the winter, but I occasionally run it in the summer, too. My engines don't show signs of oil-related problems since switching to baffled racing oil pans with the trap doors in them. Prior to this I would occasionally hear momentary lifter clacking on hard corners and would generally find unexpected cam and crank bearing wear after just a couple years of hard service.
I think I usually run conventional oils because I find I tend to reach for my wallet faster and don't hesitate changing the oil. I know I tend to procrastinate a little longer between changes with expensive oil.
In the summer I like 10W-40 conventional oil, and 5W-50 or 15W50 Mobil1 for my zippy FEs. In the cold of winter I go with a lighter weight 5W-30 Mobil1, as it has better "pour point" temperature specs than the 5W-50 Mobil1 I used to use.
Just my opinion,
Shoe. |
| | | RE: Looking for 428CJ oil recommendations -- Kyle Korzenowski, 04/16/2001
Thanks a lot, Shoe. That's helpful. Your analysis has raised another question for me: Should I replace the stock oil pan/pump (currently installed) with high-volume ones or am I "safe" with stock? My car will be a daily driver with occassional "Saturday night steet rodding," but no serious track applications.
Kyle |
| | | | I'd start with just the pan. -- Dave Shoe, 04/16/2001
Replacing the pan and matching pickup will buy you LOTS of margin with the oil system.
Other problems crop up when installing HV/HP pumps, including twisting the stock oil pump drive shaft to death, shearing the distributor gear's drive pin when you beef up the oil pump drive shaft, pumping too much oil into the heads (which naturally drain back slowly) causing the oil pan to dry out and the rear-most intake valve stems to suck oil into the combustion chamber, and gobs of other little oily things that all need to be looked at when upgrading the pump.
If you go the "heavy oiling mod" route and disassemble your whole motor to add the proper restrictors and chamfers for the HV/HP setup, I personally recommend that you do NOT modify (drill or chamfer) the holes drilled in the block that go to the main bearings. Some very experienced persons recommend it, but I believe this is more likely to cause problems than solve them. Ford has published a TSB for the FE on this topic, and it makes sense to me.
A stock pump works GREAT for anything short of hard track time. I'm only recommending the pan and pickup. I use Milodon (or Moroso?) pans (I forget which). At $200+ bucks each , you don't want to get more involved with other oiling mods. They're steel pans, but I dig the steel because they can handle more roadkill than aluminum pans can before they shatter.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| 1968 Shelby GT500 Engine VIN's -- Ed, 04/15/2001
I am looking at purchasing a 1968 Shelby GT500.This cars engine block shows a casting date of "7M5" and an engine build date of "7M8 9" and the cars Door Data Plate says the car was built on "M26"or Dec 26 1967.Does this happen on these cars?I was thinking of showing the car and I was wondering about the correctness for judging. The 1997 version of the "Shelby American World Registry" states that "USUALLY" the last four digits of the cars VIN is stamped on the rear of the block where this car has the engine build date.
Thank you for your help Ed |
| | RE: Yes, it does. -- Morgan, 04/16/2001
Ed,
I do believe that in general you are safe. Often times I believe the blocks were cast much earlier than the build date on the cars. I know that the 428 PI in my Shelby 67 GT-500 as a similar margin of time. The date code on my 428 is found near the oil filter. There was no stamping behind the drivers side head. I also don't think you should worry to much about the date code when it comes to shows as long as the motor was build in 67 or 68 (before your cars was put together) I also recommend that join the Northern California Shelby Club, they actually have many member spread across the nation and have a E-mail forum where you can ask questions to members like the one above. Good luck with you purchase. |
| | RE: 1968 Shelby GT500 Engine VIN's -- bill, 04/20/2001
In my experiences with the FE engines there is not a VIN # on the block just the casting numbers and the year it was cast, normally the casting date has been the year before the car was manufactured |
| Police Interceptor intake swap -- Mke, 04/14/2001
Hypothetical question,
How much horse power gain would a stock 1967 S-code 390 achieve
by swapping the stock cast iron intake manifold with a 1967 Ford Alum
Police Interceptor intake , running the same factory 2 inch stock
transverse lo back pressure exhaust system.
mike |
| | RE: Police Interceptor intake swap -- Dave Shoe, 04/14/2001
First off, the exhaust manifolds are the #1 restriction in any 390 Fairlane/Mustang. Replacing these with some CJ exhaust manifolds will open things up and let a PI intake do it's job.
Second off, HP increase is partly driven by whether you've got the large runner C6AE-R or the small runner C6AE-U or C7AE-A head. In '66-'67 it seemed that any 352/390/410/428 could come with either type.
Finally, onto the intake. You will notice some improvement with the PI intake - I'd guess 10 HP with an otherwise stock GT engine. Replacing the exhaust manifolds after this will net 30-40 HP above this (maybe 20-25 HP with stock intake).
To put it another way: If you first replaced the exhaust manifolds with CJ pieces, you'd see an extra 20-25 HP. If you then replaced the intake with the PI, you'd maybe see another 20 HP, 25 HP with the C6AE-R heads.
Headers (if the flange is the correct type to port-match to your particular head) will buy you another 10-15 HP, and after headers, a larger Holley will get you maybe 5-10 HP more. At this point a bigger exhaust pipe will net you a little more power at the top end.
Keep in mind the 390GT motor is rather famous for not putting out the ~335HP it was rated at. I blame the exhaust manifolds. I'd give the base 390GT engine about 310 HP.
Only guessing,
Shoe |
| | | RE:ET improvement -- Mike McQuesten, 04/16/2001
I can tell you what happened to my 390GT by adding a Aluminum PI intake. I bought a '66 Fairlane GTA brand new. With a little distributor curve work and BTF31 Autolite plugs it ran a best of 14.95 at Puyallup Raceway a cool spring evening in '68. Prior to that it never ran better than a 15.00 in Pure Stock. This car was stock with 3.25 equa-lock gearing, no power brakes/steering, glass packs with original stock exhaust system out the back. For my 21st birthday I asked my mom & dad for a new PI intake in '69. It was an in the box C7AE intake. First time at the strip with this manifold the car ran consistent 14.50's @ 98 mph. Again no other changes. I stupidly sold the car to a student of mine in '76. He did little to nothing to the car and he ran 14.25 at Seattle Raceway! He was about 70 pounds lighter than me. That had to be it. Oh, I did add a Ford Muscle Parts dual point kit/converted to centrifgul advance around '74 but it didn't seem to help ET/mph. That intake is a winner!! |
| | | | RE:ET improvement -- Dave Shoe, 04/16/2001
Great info.
I keep hearing from others how great the stock "S-marked" equal runner intake is, and sorta get beat up when I claim it's the worst FE intake for performance and the finest one for smooth, slow cruising.
It's nice to hear a real life experience related to the upgrade. I don't have to cower quite so much when I catch flak from hollering out the the stock Fairlane/Mustang(and other apps, too) "S-marked" intake is a real oinker.
The PI intake is a great piece (flowing slightly better than the fine CJ iron intake), though the casting quality was naturally rushed and it's getting tough to find them in good shape nowadays.
Shoe. |
| | | | RE:ET improvement -- Richard Swart, 04/17/2001
Flash back, puyallup raceway. lived about 4 miles a way from there. Never hooked the headers back up, just drove home. |
| | | | | RE:Ed Terry @ Puyallup -- Mike McQuesten, 04/17/2001
Yup, those were the days where drag strips were plentiful. A brief FE story on that spring night in '68. Ed Terry was touring the western states match racing in promotion for Ford's new 428 Cobra Jet. He was running one of the factory backed Mustangs that he'd competed with at the Winter Nationals. At Puyallup that night he was matched up against a Mopar backed '67 Hemi Satellite. Was it a 428 CJ in Ed's 'stang? Nope. It was his "match race" special: 427 Tunnel Port dual fours and T & C Top Loader. This car was a genuine '68 1/2 CJ car. However to be competitive in this promo match race stuff, you had to be ready. This car was stock meaning it did not have sub frame connectors, it had full interior, and Cal Trac bars weren't invented yet. The sight of that fastback exploding off the line on the tires of the day was unreal. Ed ran a best of 11.00 flat that night beating the Elephant motor mopar in a best of 2 outta 3. He blew him away first time. Took it easy on the 2nd. There was no doubt Ford was on top with the 3rd race. Ed Terry was a real gentleman and let me crawl all over and under that car. He was based out of Hayward Ford in Fremont, CA. I ended up living in Federal Way, teaching at Thomas Jefferson and racing many of my students at SIR on grudge bracket nights with my Fairlane GTA. Great fun and totally legal! |
| | | | | | Very refreshing........ -- Don V, 04/17/2001
To read these posts of guys who have actually run their cars at the dragstrip. These posts are very informative because they are based on fact, not theory or opinion. Keep posting guys, I'll be reading. |
| | | RE: Police Interceptor intake swap -- Mike, 04/21/2001
Thanks for the feedback Dave, Mike and the rest.
I did notice somewhat of an improvement
after the PI was installed. Also added a
K&N air filter to the stock snorkle-less
air cleaner. She has improved low end torque.
With a 3:00 rear, it's a great street and
highway cruiser and the C-6 will churp
the tires in 2nd & 3rd.
Thanks Again.
Mike |
| 69 mustang -- bear, 04/13/2001
I recently upgraded my rearend in my 390 ranger to a 31 spline ss axles and a new detroit locker with a nodular case from the mustang. I am going to sell the mustang and it still has the 31 spline housing with the posi unit in it. I only pirated the nodular center section. The mustang has no title and the quarters are bad but the doors and fenders are good. I was going to turn it into a strip car. But I just found out I have another baby on the way. I am wondering how much to ask for the car and I was going to ask $400 for the car minus the rearend And $800 with the rearend. Is this to much and if not, is anyone interested.
Thanks Bear
|
| interesting week! -- 410cougar, 04/13/2001
whats up guys. its been a while since ive been on. ive changed my email so if any one needs to contact me just click my link. well im on leave right now so i was planning on working on the cougar.
as it turns out i havnt gotten to touch her at all as of yet. in fact it even crossed my mind to get rid of her and all of my miscelaneous parts to take care of some bills that had attacked me from out of nowhere. thank god for my awsome girlfriend that knew how much the car ment to me and wouldnt let me do it. its good knowing that there is someone next to you that cares about the hobby as much as you do. as it turns out a positive thing always follows a negative. or at least adventually. anyways i did my taxes and found out the military screwed up my taxes for the last 3 years. im now getting all of my state tax back from 97 to present. and at least half of my gov tax from 97 to present.
you know what that means. ive been wondering where that paint job was going to come from. so im getting her painted next month.
by chance does anyone know of a good body/painter guy in the southern Ca area. i need someone that can come to me to give me an estimate. engines pulled. one guy wanted me to dolly it to him so he could give me quote. ya right!
im planing on going with a dark grey with silver metal flake, and a pearl clear coat. well that enough of me spouting off.
anyways it just goes to prove that no matter what there is a way out of everything. so befor you get rid of your prized baby. just remember you cant replace memories unless you still have the real thing.
j |
| Early FE Cam -- Richard Bouman, 04/12/2001
I have a new Sealed Power cam part number CS-103R.
It's for a pre '63 FE, uses the spring and thrust
button. It's a solid lifter cam and came with the
the lifters. Does anybody have the specs on it?
Thanks. |
| | RE: Early FE Cam -- Dave Shoe, 04/12/2001
It's not listed in the 1987 Speed-Pro catalog.
Shoe. |
| | RE: Early FE Cam -- Richard Bouman, 04/13/2001
Does anybody have an early Sealed Power/ Speed-Pro
catalog? The earlist one I have is 1980. Thanks. |
| 428 CJ engine project -- etm63, 04/12/2001
I'm in the process of building a 428CJ motor. I'd like to get some opinions from all you gear heads out there with more experience then I have - this is my first.
I have an excellent set of original CJ heads (bare) and I'm trying to decide whether to build and use these or go with Edelbrocks aluminum heads. For those of you out there whose running these Eldelbrock heads - how do you like them? Headers or cast iron manifolds? I know headers provide more HP but I have them on a 428PI (which I'm running now) and I have a leak which is driving me crazy - I don't want to deal with this...
This is my gut plan - run the Eldelbrock aluminum heads, aluminum intake, and aluminum water pump with the cast iron exhaust manifolds. The weight savings should make up the minimal HP lose with the manifolds. Please give me your opinions and comments. By the way, this motor will be going into a 68 Mustang. Thanks!! |
| | | RE: You are running the wrong headers. -- etm63, 04/13/2001
Dave,
Thanks for the response. I'm not positive that I'm running the wrong headers - I bought the car over 10 years ago (engine/drivetrain already installed) and it's been fine up until 6 or 8 month ago. Nevertheless, being in a Mustang, I'm not gonna even try to fix the leak while it's (the engine) in the car, hence my reasoning for building another motor and swaping the two. I really can't see an easy way to change the gaskets without pulling the motor so I figured I'd build another one so I'd know exactly what I've got. Plus, two 428's are always better than one!! Anyway, any other views and opinions on the aluminum setup with cast iron manifolds and other advise would be much appreciated. Thanks again. |
| | RE: 428 CJ engine project -- Will, 04/13/2001
I have a 428 with Ed heads plus Hooker headers in a 67 Mustang. They don't leak a bit. They hit speed bumps, but that's a different problem.
If I could do it over again, I'd run the FPA headers. They're supposed to hang no lower than the engine or transmission.
I've always used the white Mr. Gasket header and collector gaskets. I've never had a problem with leaks.
I tried using studs in the heads. Wrong answer! There's not nearly enough room to get the headers on with studs. One more thing. The Hookers (and I think the FPA's too) come with 4 bolts per cylinder. I installed every bolt I could get to. That may contribute to the good seal.
Good luck. |
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