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 | carb prob -- ben, 03/20/2001
i just bought a 73 f700 dump truck and i think it has either a 361 or a 391 in it; im really not too sure. for the past 2 days, i have been having carb probs with it. seems like it prefers to run on the 'rich' side. ive tried adjusting the float ect but this engine is just running sooooo rich, it makes serious smoke out the exhaust. the exhaust smells like raw gas although i know for a fact it isnt misfiring! this engine has a holley 2 barrel carb on it although it looks different than most 2300 series 2 barrels. it is manual choke and it has provisions for a throttle cable? does this thing have a governor of some sort on the carb? at the very least, i want to let it run cleaner and not so darn rich! i havent pulled the float bowl as of yet! any ideas as to what may be going on here before i tear intot his thing? hey dave~~>need yr expertise again and where did u learn soooo much about fords?? lol |
|  | RE: carb prob -- RC Moser, 03/21/2001
As far as I know gas engines don't have governor's. You've probably allready verified this, but I'll mention it anyway; the manual choke should keep the choke flapper standing straight up, If not the choke could be blocking the inlet air causing the rich mixture and I've sure you've check out the air inlet and air filter. The Carb. internal passages are could plugged up. (some times you can get lucky by cleaning it out with carb. cleaner while the engine is running at fast idle) You'll probably have to disassemble it and throughly clean all the pathways. I'd also, put a vacuum gauge on it and see how much vac it pulls at idle and 1800 RPM. And it would be a good idea to get a base line on the compression for future references. Maybe you'll get some more opinions form Dave.. |
|  | RE: carb prob -- kevin, 03/21/2001
Could be a blown power valve or a weak float spring or a cracked float or a warped main body or ?? I once had a 427 car that acted like this new and it turned out to be a flaw in the metering block that was a small hole that had been cast that way. It allowed too much gas to flow and gave the same symptons. Just some food for thought, good luck. PS 4 barrel carbs did have governors but I never owned any 2 barrel F-700s |
 | Head Matching -- Mike P. (Takoma Park, MD), 03/20/2001
I have a 406 block that I am stroking to a 428. I have a set of the early 60's small chamber HiPo 352/390 heads. Are these compatible with my setup? I understand that these are machined and are thus a better quality than "normal" heads. Would I be better off w/406 or 428 CJ heads or should I dish out the cash and get Edelbrocks? Finally, someone is claiming that if you take C4AE-G police interceptor heads and fit them w/ CJ valves, you have what are essentially CJ heads. Is this true? Thanks, mfp |
|  | RE: Head Matching -- Ed Foral, 03/20/2001
The early HiPo heads have very small combustion chambers and would probably not be the best choice for your application. You could sell them to someone who needs them for a restoration, and put the money towards a better set. The C4AE-G head is the base 352/390 head. It is not cast for the 16 bolt pattern, so you could not use CJ manifolds on them. Yes, you can drop the CJ valves in them, do a little bowl work, and have a set of CJ equivalent flowing heads. For the price, it is hard to go wrong with the Edelbrocks. I have seen them move a 390 Falcon into the low 12's with ease. By the time you put the machine work into converting a set of the C4AE heads, you are further ahead shelling out a few hundred more for the Edelbrocks. If every penny counts, then you can use the Iron heads, but you will not save much.
Ed |
|  | RE: Head Matching -- kevin, 03/21/2001
You are fortunate to have these heads, if they are indeed CO castings. However they should not have machined chambers.The C-J heads are cast from different patterns altogether so most of what people gain in other heads with the installation of bigger valves and porting is just that. The 428 with these 352-360 horse heads and dished pistons is the most potent street combo you will experience for the bucks.They offer the small chamber which can be reworked correctly to the most advantageous shape for combustion efficiency and surface to volume ratio. |
| |  | RE: HP '52/'90 heads -- Mike McQuesten, 03/21/2001
I want to affirm what Kevin said about the 352/390 HP COAE-D heads. First, they are NOT machined combustion chambers. Those were found on the first 90 days of production for '58 FE engines, 332/352. Those heads are rare and neat but not much performance potential without a ton of work. Now, the COAE-D heads are great for a big compression ratio boost. As Kevin states they'll work well with a little work and dished pistons. The 352 HP did not have dished. The same head was used on the 390 HP with dished pistons. CR was around 11:1 (from memory here). They're main advantage was to make more power with high compression along with all the other goodies in the HP engines, i.e., performance solid lifter cam, improved exhaust and more carburetion. I'm running a set of these heads on a '63 427 equipped with C3J Ford Marine/Industrial forged pistons. They're dished similar to the '61 390 pistons. This way my '60 HP looks like a stock HP 352 but lurking underneath are those tell tale cross bolts. My builder/ machinist calculated my CR to be 10.5:1 which is exactly what I wanted. Oh, and we did fit the 1.66" CJ/lo-riser '27 exhaust valves into the tight confines of that little figure eight combustion chamber. |
 | Black valves and pistons -- Paul, 03/20/2001
I noticed when swaping intakes on my 352 that the valves and pistons looked black and crusty. Is this normal for a 116K engine and if not what should I do if anything? What about the fuel additive stuff?, does it work? The car seems to run well for a "boat" Galaxie 500xl. It does not plant me in the seat when I step on it, but it seems to run smooth and strong with no missing or sputtering. |
 | 460 Castings numbers -- Rachel, 03/20/2001
My husband is looking for ford casting numbers. We are having a very hard time finding any. Can anybody help? Thanks |
|  | RE: 460 Castings numbers -- Dave Shoe, 03/20/2001
The 460 is much like a 429 block.
I'll bet either of the two fomoco.com 429 forums would have exactly the info you seek.
The 429 Mustang forum is at:
http://www.fomoco.com/forum429/
and the 429 Torino forum is at:
http://www.fomoco.com/forummidsize/
Hey, sorry to keep sending you away, but sometimes it works best .
Shoe.
|
|  | RE: 460 Castings numbers -- Will, 03/20/2001
I thought there were only 3 429/460 blocks.
1. The Boss 429 block (possibly different for S vs. T or 69 vs. 70)
2. The CJ block - 4 bolt mains
3. All others, 429 & 460. I thought they all used the same block. It doesn't matter much. It's pretty hard to crack any 429/460 block.
I'm far from an expert on the 429/460. My simple point is that unless you're doing a numbers matching restoration, it shouldn't matter which block you have.
The sites Shoe mentioned should be able to help. |
 | help please... -- cd, 03/19/2001
i have the t-bird 390 going into the 69 stang.a mustang guy told me i have to use t-bird manifolds only for it because the bolt holes are side to side.he said 390 stang bolt holes are up and down.your thoughts on this... |
|  | RE: help please... -- Will, 03/19/2001
It's probably more accurate to say Mustang manifolds won't fit. They have some vertical bolt holes, but mostly diagonal. Since your heads only have vertical, there won't be a place for the diagonal to bolt up to. You could probably drill and tap the diagonal holes, though.
The t-bird manifolds will fit the engine, obviously, but I don't know about interference with the shock towers and steering. I bet they'll fit, though. Those manifolds are pretty slender.
I think most headers come with 4 holes per cylinder. I know my Hooker's do. Some of the vertical holes are a bitch. |
|  | RE: help please... -- Dave Shoe, 03/20/2001
I believe you mentioned it was a '64 bird. This motor has 2-bolt motor mount bosses cast into the block, which is one complication, because all '65-later blocks have 4-bolt bosses to attach the motor mounts to the block.
The 1964 heads are nice in that they are the large-runner variety, much like the CJ head. The problem is the 8-bolt vertical exhaust pattern of the early heads. This is tough to retrofit to Fairlanes and Mustangs because the lower 4 exhaust manifold bolts on each head are REALLY REALLY tough to access when installing headers. Log manifolds won't even fit in a Mustang/Fairlane.
In 1966-later, all FE heads got eight extra exhaust manifold bosses cast into them. Some heads got drilled for the Fairlane/Mustang pattern, others for Galaxie and pickup applications. These '66-later heads han be drilled either way or both ways. '65-earlier heads lack the eight extra manifold bosses on the exhaust flange of each head, and cannot be drilled because there is no extra material there - four bosses are clearly missing and the four in the water jacket are also missing, meaning you'll probably hit water if you drill.
The engine you have will work great in the Mustang, but you'll have to learn the details of how to retrofit your block to Mustang motor mounts, and you also need to know the heads will be TOUGH to bolt up to headers, because you can't cheat and leave the bottom bolts out, as you can if you have 14 or 16 bolt holes per head.
Note also that the exhaust port position is different between the '65-earlier (also includes all 427s, C6AE-R, and CJ heads), and the 66-later small-runner heads, as the later head has lowered the exhaust port 5/16", meaning the two port styles require two different types of headers, if you expect to properly port match and seal the headers.
Shoe. |
|  | RE: help please... -- dale large, 03/20/2001
Dear sir I dont know this to be a fact but your exh.manifold should fit. Are you into performance? Put you a set of headers on the FE . If you get a hold of hooker(or who ever) they will steer you right.I put a set of hooker comp. plus on my 69 stang with a 428 it made good hp. move,but it was very very very tight. I dont have org. motor my is a 68 out of a fairl/gal I have vetical bolt holes. My headers only have vertical bolt holes but I bet they make what you need good luck. |
 | can anyone identify intake -- Marvin, 03/19/2001
casting #C6AE 9425-E (aluminum) |
|  | RE: can anyone identify intake -- kevin, 03/20/2001
Police Intercepter: 1966 Its a good intake. There is also one made by Ford that is called a Sidewinder. The P.I. gives a little more power on the top end, but the Sidewinder gives more torque over a broader range. |
| |  | RE: can anyone identify intake -- Marvin, 03/20/2001
Thanks, Kevin. I plan to use this to replace my iron intake on a 428cj RA. My thoughts, lighten the front to help the handling plus give a little boost to the torque. I am having the engine rebuilt. If I use stock heads and exhaust do you think I will be defeating the purpose of the PI? Marvin |
| | |  | RE:CJ vs. PI intake -- Mike McQuesten, 03/21/2001
The only advantage you will see with the C6AE PI intake is weight savings. That hunk-o-iron CJ intake is a close duplicate of the PI. Hard to beat what the Ford engineers did in '68. A caution, DO NOT modify the intake manifold ports. I've seen them "Port Matched" to heads and it's a mistake. You'll kill street torque doing this. I learned that lesson years ago. One thing to check on that C6AE intake is the exhaust/hear cross over chamber. Remove the oil splash pan and check that chamber for cracks carefully. If it is cracked or there are visible holes, it's still usable. Just not for cold weather driving. What I did in a case like this was to have the chamber carefully cut away leaving the bosses for the oil splash pan. Then heli arched the heat riser holes, surfaced them smooth. No more heat cross over! Splash pan intact keeping hot oil off the bottom of the intake. Worked great. Except for the "port matching" work on the intake. |
| | | |  | RE:CJ vs. PI intake -- J. Robb, 03/21/2001
By "port matching" do you mean porting the entire runner the size of the head port, or just chamfering the edge where the gasket lays out to the size of the gasket? |
| | | | |  | RE:CJ vs. PI intake -- Mike McQuesten, 03/22/2001
I'm sorry to have been vague. I do mean the chamfering out to the size of the gasket. I guess that really isn't port matching, huh? My specific case was that I bought C7AE PI manifold that had been "chamfered out" as you say. I did the required fix to the heat chamber and installed it on to my 428 CJ. It ran well but didn't feel as sharp off throttle/low end. I eventually changed manifolds to an offy dual four w/Edelbrock 500s - looked good but didn't run any better than the previous two. Replaced that set up with a Edelbrock Performer/750 Edelbrock - whoa did that provide tire roasting bottom end. This was before the E-brock Perf. RPM was available. I sold that C7AE PI to a friend who runs it on a '67 Fairlane GTA/428 bracket racer. He's running the 324/500 solid Ford cam and says the manifold works well at the top end which is what he wanted. I know that it seems that "chamfering out" the manifold should do some good but I've been told it doesn't help and can actually hinder. My seat-o-the-pants experience seemed to support this theory. I'd be real interested in hearing what others have to say. |
| | | | | |  | RE:CJ vs. PI intake -- J. Robb, 03/22/2001
Would opening up the head port on the intake or exhaust side on the edge to meet the gasket hinder any performance or torque? I ask because I am doing some of my own head work now, and would like to avoid any performance problems. I am mainly working on the exhaust side, getting rid of the thermactor bumps and polishing the runner. I had no intention on grinding anything on my new Performer RPM, which has yet to arrive. |
| | | | | | |  | Porting without a flow bench -- Travis Miller, 03/23/2001
Grinding on on the ports of an intake or a set of heads without a flow bench is taking a huge gamble. Ask anyone with a flow bench and they will tell you that grinding in what seems like the logical areas can actually make the flow worse on most intakes or heads. You can spend a lot of time porting and polishing the runners and in reality ruin the flow on a high dollar piece. |
| | | | | | | |  | RE: Porting without a flow bench -- J. Robb, 03/23/2001
All I am doing is polishing the exhaust ports, not porting them or taking off noticeable material off the walls. Can you hurt performance just with what I am doing? |
 | engine swap: please help -- twoods, 03/19/2001
dear anyone, I own a 66 mustang coupe it currently has a 200 straight six but i am wanting to put a fuel injected 5.o liter in it. I already have the rear end assembly , front spindles , motormounts and motor stands. I know the motor will bolt right in and that i will have to put a later wiring harness on it but will I have to do anything else besides slapping on a tranny and driveshaft please help me out here i dont know a whole lot about cars thanks for any help |
|  | RE: engine swap: please help -- Al, 03/19/2001
This is an involved swap man. Espically since the car is a factory 6 cylinder. Your braking system and front suspension system will have to be swaped over to a V8 setup. No way around it. Dont let anyone tell you different. The I6 and V8 cars ARE DIFFERENT! Do you have a 7 or an 8 inch rear end? With a 200 6 I would guess a 7. You will need to swap over to an 8 atleast ( some people say a 9 ,but a good 8 can handel up to 300HP easy and it isnt as heavy as the 9 so you save some preciuos weight on the rear end) If you are not an experienced mechanic as you say then my best advice is to get a Mustang that is already a V8 factory car. Unless your Mustang is a Family heirlum or holds some serious emotional attachments then a factory V8 is alot easier and some what less expensive to work on. email me if you want to ask any more questions and I can send you some good links to several great sites for a 5.0 swap in a classic Mustang. I have a 65 coupe that Im Restmoding so Im not just blowin smoke here. |
| |  | RE: engine swap: please help -- Al, 03/19/2001
What rear end do you have for the car? An 8 , 8.8 or a 9? What transmission are you using? Are you planning on keeping the stock C4automatic or toploader stick shift transmission or going to an overdrive unit like an AOD or a T5? Also On the rear suspension you will need stiffer springs to go with the V8 and the heavier rear end. |
|  | RE: engine swap: please help -- 410 cougar, 03/19/2001
one of your biggest challenges is going to be finding all of the reqiured parts. get ahold of one of your local mustang parts outlets. they will offer conversion kits including mounts and the assosiated hard ware. the second step is to find an 5.0. try to find one prior to 93 thats when they went to the hypernumatic pistons. but stay newer then 87 thats when they went to roller cams. you should be able to find a vehicle for under a 1000.00 with these 2 things you more then 90% on yor way. one of the neatest swaps is to just chop the front clip off and fab it onto yours. makes the best of both worlds. |
 | cougar mustang swap... -- 410cougar, 03/19/2001
i was up at the hobby shop here on base checking out a 67 mustang that was stripped and abandoned. my cougar has power brakes but they seem to differ from this mustangs. mine are mounted at the front of the rotor vise in the rear like the mustangs. this one also had 4 piston calipers on it as well. im thinking that this was a swap done by the previous owner. im thinking about nabbing those brakes for the cat. is the pinion different? i thought that the difference between a mustang and a cougar was only skin deep. boy i can here people hollerin about that coment. |
|  | RE: cougar mustang swap... -- Dave Shoe, 03/20/2001
I'm not certain, but I think 4-piston calipers are '68-later stuff. Sounds like a retrofit was done to the '67 Mustang. As far as I know, the Cougar and Mustang are REALLY similar each year, mechanically.
Shoe. |
| |  | RE: cougar mustang swap... -- kevin, 03/20/2001
4 piston setup started in 65, transfer all the parts, its well worth it. The floating caliper set up came on 68-up, was cheaper to make, and is more forgiving to wear and rotor run out. The Kelsey Hayes 4 piston set up will give you much better braking however, you must have the rotors cut by somebody who gives a damn. They must be done on a twin bit machine preferably an AMMCO as I have tried most and find it to be the best. You need to put new bearings and races in it too. Dont let yor local hammer mechanic do it either! They might be ok for normal people , but hey when that idiot in the dump truck pulls out in front of you when you have the quads wide open you will be glad they will haul you down in a hurry. Take the old race and grind down the outside diameter on a stone wheel just slightly. Make sure there is no burrs in the housing,put the new race in the freezer. Heat the rotor and lube it with cam break in moly grease, start the new race and tap it in with a 2 by 4 cut square till flush with top. Then put the old race on top of new one and drive it down till it seats. Use a brass punch and drive the old race out from back side, and you have no distortion or scratches. Now find correct spacers and deburr the radius and make sure the radius fits in the middle of the race (critical) and make sure they use the slowest speed on the final cut. Offer to buy new bits if they dont have any to get the best results. Then take a drill and a roloc pad and give it a nice crosshatch, non directional finish while it is still mounted on the machine, and then take a file and put a champher on the out side edge and inside too. This will help stop cracking. It is worth it to have them blasted in between the vanes and then paint them with Sperex brand hi temp paint # SP 101 and bake in oven first, but it really stinks and is probably toxic too! I had an oven out side just for this purpose so I did not have to smell it. You must set the wheel brg. crush correctly or it will be a waste of time (see shop manual). When done like this I would get less than .001 runout on the rotor when installed. Calipers are another story. Glass blast them and use a tiny bit of silicone on the back side of the (square) o-ring and in the reciever groove. Make sure there is none left over to contaminate the brake fluid. Be careful and dont rip the dust boots, they are tricky to get in. Make sure there are no pits on the pistons or better yet, buy new ones. If I remember the rotors are .910 thick when new and only have a wear limit of .060, better check thickness first. Also use only DOT 5 brake fluid as nothing else stands up to repeated use on the track. Contact Stainless Steel Brake Corp. for any further info. Good luck |
 | What gas dose not have Ethanol in it?.... -- Ed Jenkins, 03/18/2001
and can I buy it at the pump? Does Ethonal really hurt an FE or is it tolorated? |
|  | RE: What gas dose not have Ethanol in it?.... -- RC Moser, 03/18/2001
Ed, I used Ethanol when ever I can find it, it's usually cheaper and higher octain due to the grain alcohol. I have had no problems using it. Some say it will clean out your tank and plug filters. I personnal have never experience any problems. Way I look at it is if you tank is dirty going to cause you problems anyway. Ethanol susposably burns cleaner and polute less. Only few state have Ethanol mostly in the midwest I think or the corn belt. Maybe their is a chemist out their that will set use straight..The state I now live in don't carry it. |
| |  | I live in the good ole Land of Lincoln so odds.... -- ED Jenkins, 03/18/2001
are that that I've used it befor. I think that it has to be posted on the pump what mix it is, Ethonal/Alchol or Pure refined unleaded Gas.
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| |  | RE: What gas dose not have Ethanol in it?.... -- RC Moser, 03/19/2001
Ed, I remember it being posted and with a symbol of a little ear of corn? How corny, I used to live in the land of the cornhuskers and it was plentiful up there.. I want to say that it was 90 proof. |
| | |  | What gas dose not have Ethanol in it?.... -- Orin, 03/19/2001
I've used "gasahol" -- ethanol and gasoline -- several times traveling to, from and around the midwest and my only compliant was that I got lower gas milage. But this was in a late model car, not a 60-something FE BTW, I think "gasahol" is 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline, which would make it 20 proof, not 90 proof. :-) |
| | | |  | RE: Wave of the future? Gasohol and ampree.... -- Nostrodomis, 03/21/2001
As the conventional gas costs will go out of site I predict that in 10 years most cars will be running on a corn blend (more corn that crude) and will be backed up by electric power as seen in the Honda. Maybe even a carbite and water bottle producing the gas to back up the elect motor. |
|  | RE: What gas dose not have Ethanol in it?.... -- J. Robb, 03/19/2001
The gas in my area is the 10% Ethanol blend. The EPA says we have to run this gas because it supposedly burns cleaner. There is a big controversy as to wether or not it works in cleaning up the air. That, if you can count it, is the only positive. This "reformulated gas" will decrease your gas mileage by about 15%. On a gas guzzler, this is not good. On a carburetor because of the extra oxygenates in it, you have to run it richer to make it run the same as it did on normal gas. With an ECU, the O2 sensor sees a lean mixture and pumps up the duty cycle on the injectors. Another problem is that the alcohol in the gas will eat rubber for lunch. Got an old fuel pump or carb, better plan a rebuild or replacement. On new rubber components I havn't had a problem, yet. It also cleans out your gas tank real well, and can clog your fuel filter. It also smells worse and dries your skin out instantly. If you can, use regular gas, its worth it. |
|  | RE: Anyone have an intrest in 427's? Check this out... -- Scott, 03/18/2001
I am in an argument with a lesser educated individual about 390s to 427s. I was wondering if anyone else had any luck boreing a 390 block to a 427b bore? I know it is not adviseable and uncommon to find a block that will accept this but between my father and I it has been done. I hope that this is not the only case. Let me know if you have heard of this. |
| |  | Bad Karma. -- Dave Shoe, 03/18/2001
You can offset-bore a 391 (or 428CJ block) to 4.233" if you've got a sonic map, but the cylinders will be thin and fragile, defeating the purpose of the build, unless you plan to run a mild cam and a big radiator.
JMO, Shoe.
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