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Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5588&Reply=5588><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>intakes</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Richy, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote> I have a 427low riser alm. intake on my 68 Cougar gte where dose this fall performance wise to other performance intakes?  Could it handel 452 cu. in. at 6000rpm. Wound porting or extrud-a- hone help? like to keep it stock looking. Thanks Richard<br><br> </blockquote> intakes -- Richy, 03/18/2001
I have a 427low riser alm. intake on my 68 Cougar gte where dose this fall performance wise to other performance intakes? Could it handel 452 cu. in. at 6000rpm. Wound porting or extrud-a- hone help? like to keep it stock looking. Thanks Richard

 RE: intakes -- Richy, 03/21/2001
Can any of you hotroders out there help me on this one. please and thank you.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5568&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ron G, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Hi,<br><br>I'm currently building a 390 Tri-power and I'm looking for factory cam specs and which of the manufacturers makes a fairly equivalent grind.  Thanks for your help.<br><br>Ron<br> </blockquote> 390 Tripower cam? -- Ron G, 03/17/2001
Hi,

I'm currently building a 390 Tri-power and I'm looking for factory cam specs and which of the manufacturers makes a fairly equivalent grind. Thanks for your help.

Ron
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5570&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Are you running a 4-speed or automatic?  How heavy a car is it going into?  I have run tri-power set ups before and these factors are important. </blockquote> RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- Travis Miller, 03/17/2001
Are you running a 4-speed or automatic? How heavy a car is it going into? I have run tri-power set ups before and these factors are important.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5572&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ron G, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>55 F-100, so not real heavy, C-6 Auto.  Thanks for your response.<br><br>Ron </blockquote> RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- Ron G, 03/17/2001
55 F-100, so not real heavy, C-6 Auto. Thanks for your response.

Ron
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5573&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>While the tri-power set up is neat, it can have a problem when used with an automatic.  It uses mechanical linkage.  Even though it has accelerator pumps on all three carbs it can still have a bog when all three are opened from a dead stop.  Couple this with too much duration on the cam and the engine will have no bottom end power.  This is why Mopar and Chevy used vaccum operated end carbs on their tri-power set ups in the late 60's.  <br><br>While visiting John Veermersch at his shop in Michigan back in the 80's, I got to see an old experimental tri-power set up that Ford tried in late 1960 for the FE.  They tried to solve the bogging problem with vaccum chambers on the end carbs off of 4-bl Holleys.  The chambers were too small and did not work consistently.  This was several years before the large chambers were developed for the Mopar and Chevy set ups.<br><br>When talking with cam companys, be sure to tell them about the tri-power set up and the mechanical operated end carbs.  They will be familiar with the Mopar and Chevy set ups but not the Ford.  One guy said that it should act like a double pumper carb, but there is too much CFM when all carbs are suddenly opened off idle.<br><br>The main thing I liked about them was the visual effect.  They are one the sharpest looking induction set ups ever built. </blockquote> RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- Travis Miller, 03/17/2001
While the tri-power set up is neat, it can have a problem when used with an automatic. It uses mechanical linkage. Even though it has accelerator pumps on all three carbs it can still have a bog when all three are opened from a dead stop. Couple this with too much duration on the cam and the engine will have no bottom end power. This is why Mopar and Chevy used vaccum operated end carbs on their tri-power set ups in the late 60's.

While visiting John Veermersch at his shop in Michigan back in the 80's, I got to see an old experimental tri-power set up that Ford tried in late 1960 for the FE. They tried to solve the bogging problem with vaccum chambers on the end carbs off of 4-bl Holleys. The chambers were too small and did not work consistently. This was several years before the large chambers were developed for the Mopar and Chevy set ups.

When talking with cam companys, be sure to tell them about the tri-power set up and the mechanical operated end carbs. They will be familiar with the Mopar and Chevy set ups but not the Ford. One guy said that it should act like a double pumper carb, but there is too much CFM when all carbs are suddenly opened off idle.

The main thing I liked about them was the visual effect. They are one the sharpest looking induction set ups ever built.
 RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- 410cougar, 03/17/2001
im getting a tripower set up from a guy that has the corvete carbs on it. i was wondering why other then the cfm is about 12 or 1300. i guess thats why. its a pretty neet set up couse he had to fit different aluminum inserts into the air cleaner. looks pretty factory till you get that air cleaner off.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5587&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>kevin, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>The original tri power cam that came on the 1961-62 390-406 was also used on the 1960 352-360 horse engine. It was a solid lifter design of .480 lift 228 duration @.050 tappet lift, 114 lobe separation. It was a good all around cam that would idle nice and develop good torque. For the T-bird in 1962 they had a hyraulic unique to 62 only that was rated at 340 horse with 3-2v. It spected out to .446 lift 286 duration at te valve opening and closing points, also with 114 lobe separation. I had one of those "M" birds and that cam was perfect for that wieght of a car. I could balance a nickle on the air cleaner with the engine running! There is a solid cam by TRW # TP107 that is the same specs  as the hi po grind and is an excellent performer.   </blockquote> RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- kevin, 03/18/2001
The original tri power cam that came on the 1961-62 390-406 was also used on the 1960 352-360 horse engine. It was a solid lifter design of .480 lift 228 duration @.050 tappet lift, 114 lobe separation. It was a good all around cam that would idle nice and develop good torque. For the T-bird in 1962 they had a hyraulic unique to 62 only that was rated at 340 horse with 3-2v. It spected out to .446 lift 286 duration at te valve opening and closing points, also with 114 lobe separation. I had one of those "M" birds and that cam was perfect for that wieght of a car. I could balance a nickle on the air cleaner with the engine running! There is a solid cam by TRW # TP107 that is the same specs as the hi po grind and is an excellent performer.
 RE: Kevin's right! -- Mike McQuesten, 03/21/2001
The best cam for this app? Kevin's right on with the recommendation of using the original solid lifter grind. Great cam that moved the big Galaxies right off the line. Crane also reproduces this cam.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5607&Reply=5568><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Tripower cam?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>410cougar, <i>03/19/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>hmmm few questions for you guys. ive read that there is a way to machine the metering blocks so they wont come out of sinc. i dont know how realistic this is. just curious, ive read it somewhere but cant recall the specifics. hmmm being that it runs off the center carb. could it be possible to get better gass milage then a 4v. by the way what is the jetting diffences from the out side two from the middle. or are they the same? im just full of questions today. </blockquote> RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- 410cougar, 03/19/2001
hmmm few questions for you guys. ive read that there is a way to machine the metering blocks so they wont come out of sinc. i dont know how realistic this is. just curious, ive read it somewhere but cant recall the specifics. hmmm being that it runs off the center carb. could it be possible to get better gass milage then a 4v. by the way what is the jetting diffences from the out side two from the middle. or are they the same? im just full of questions today.
 RE: 390 Tripower cam? -- Travis Miller, 03/19/2001
The Ford FE tri-power set up is easy to keep in adjustment. But there is a secret to doing it. The secret is to read the adjusting procedure in a 1962-63 Galaxie Shop Manual. The procedure is a lot different than you would think. Once you read the real way to adjust them, you will be able to accurately adjust any multiple carb set up from then on.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5565&Reply=5565><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>390 gt??</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ed cothren, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>here are the cast numbers on this engine,block hard to read the stamp was very lite but i think this is what it is 8U153253,heads are C7AE-A.intake manifold C8AE with a S out from the cast number,exhaust manifolds C-6OE, with these numbers could you tell me if this is a 390 gt..thank you ed </blockquote> 390 gt?? -- ed cothren, 03/17/2001
here are the cast numbers on this engine,block hard to read the stamp was very lite but i think this is what it is 8U153253,heads are C7AE-A.intake manifold C8AE with a S out from the cast number,exhaust manifolds C-6OE, with these numbers could you tell me if this is a 390 gt..thank you ed
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5567&Reply=5565><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 gt??</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>8=1968 model year block<br>U= Louisville car assembly plant<br>153253=Vehicle serial number<br>C7AE-A=emissions-era head, could be found on almost any FE in 1967-68.<br>"S" style intake=Equal runner "emissions-era" design, could be found on almost any FE car in 1968.<br><br>I've got a listing of what type of cars were made at what plants, but I can't get to it right now.  You may have a GT motor, the camshaft and valve springs will tell for sure.<br><br>Because it's a 1968 block, if it was a GT it would also be drilled for "Thermactor emissions" in all 50 states, because the GT cam and Holley carb couldn't pass emissions with just the plain old "IMCO emissions" system (IMCO is just lean jetting and distributor curving done by Ford to reduce emissions).<br><br>Invariably, a GT is a GT because of the cam and carb.  If you wanna build a 390 from 1968, they're all based on the same sturdy shortblock, though 390 blocks came in two compression ratios - three if you count pickup trucks.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> RE: 390 gt?? -- Dave Shoe, 03/17/2001
8=1968 model year block
U= Louisville car assembly plant
153253=Vehicle serial number
C7AE-A=emissions-era head, could be found on almost any FE in 1967-68.
"S" style intake=Equal runner "emissions-era" design, could be found on almost any FE car in 1968.

I've got a listing of what type of cars were made at what plants, but I can't get to it right now. You may have a GT motor, the camshaft and valve springs will tell for sure.

Because it's a 1968 block, if it was a GT it would also be drilled for "Thermactor emissions" in all 50 states, because the GT cam and Holley carb couldn't pass emissions with just the plain old "IMCO emissions" system (IMCO is just lean jetting and distributor curving done by Ford to reduce emissions).

Invariably, a GT is a GT because of the cam and carb. If you wanna build a 390 from 1968, they're all based on the same sturdy shortblock, though 390 blocks came in two compression ratios - three if you count pickup trucks.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5569&Reply=5565><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 gt??</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ed cothren, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>when you say drilled for thermactor emissions what should i look for?also no holley carb more than likely it is not a 390 gt...what would be special about the valve spring and the cam? a cast number or some thing? i am familiar with the thermactor stuff on the late model injected 5.0 mustang stuff but kind of lost on the older stuff..thank you ed </blockquote> RE: 390 gt?? -- ed cothren, 03/17/2001
when you say drilled for thermactor emissions what should i look for?also no holley carb more than likely it is not a 390 gt...what would be special about the valve spring and the cam? a cast number or some thing? i am familiar with the thermactor stuff on the late model injected 5.0 mustang stuff but kind of lost on the older stuff..thank you ed
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5625&Reply=5565><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 gt??</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>03/20/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I was hoping to dig up a photo (or make one) but time is moving too fast.<br><br>The eight thermactor ports are located on top of the exhaust runner just past the valve cover.  There's a dime sized boss on all -66-later FE heads.  If it's not drilled, then it's not using thermactor.  Drilled heads either have steel thermactor air tubes coming out the holes, or they are plugged by any of many types of pipe plugs or fittings.<br><br>Shoe.<br> </blockquote> RE: 390 gt?? -- Dave Shoe, 03/20/2001
I was hoping to dig up a photo (or make one) but time is moving too fast.

The eight thermactor ports are located on top of the exhaust runner just past the valve cover. There's a dime sized boss on all -66-later FE heads. If it's not drilled, then it's not using thermactor. Drilled heads either have steel thermactor air tubes coming out the holes, or they are plugged by any of many types of pipe plugs or fittings.

Shoe.
 RE: 390 gt?? -- ed cothren, 03/20/2001
thanks for all you'r help ed
 RE:cam i.d. -- Mike McQuesten, 03/21/2001
What you'll need to ID the cam is How to Rebuild Your Big Block Ford. These cams were identified by a glob of paint between a couple of the lobes. I can't remember the correct color but this book by Steve Christ will tell you most if not all you want to know.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5562&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>bear, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I am running a .30 over 390 in a 1983 ford ranger. it has 10to 1 compression.  A lunati hydrualic flat tappet with 230 intake 240 exhaust at .50 off and 560 intake and 610 exhaust lift.  with a 110 lobe center.  I am running harland sharpe roller rocker and the edelbrock heads and performer rpm intake gasket matched.  I also am running an 830 cfm annular booster holley.  it is crisp off of idle but feels like it gets sluggish above 5000 rpm.  i was wondering if i am over carburated or if i am runing out of cam or the intake and heads are staring to weeze. </blockquote> 390 -- bear, 03/17/2001
I am running a .30 over 390 in a 1983 ford ranger. it has 10to 1 compression. A lunati hydrualic flat tappet with 230 intake 240 exhaust at .50 off and 560 intake and 610 exhaust lift. with a 110 lobe center. I am running harland sharpe roller rocker and the edelbrock heads and performer rpm intake gasket matched. I also am running an 830 cfm annular booster holley. it is crisp off of idle but feels like it gets sluggish above 5000 rpm. i was wondering if i am over carburated or if i am runing out of cam or the intake and heads are staring to weeze.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5564&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I don't have much first-hand experience when it comes to engines built as much as yours, but I have some questions:<br><br>What kind of air cleaner are you running?<br>What kind of exhaust system?<br>What kind of ignition?<br><br>I'd like to make a future build sound something like the numbers you've posted.  It'd be good to learn why your power falls off right when it should be kicking in hardest.<br><br>The intake, heads, and rockers sound ideal for making serious revs in a 390.  I don't know cams very well, but yours sounds pretty healthy.  From what I hear, them Lunatic cams should run like crazy.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Re: 390 -- Dave Shoe, 03/17/2001
I don't have much first-hand experience when it comes to engines built as much as yours, but I have some questions:

What kind of air cleaner are you running?
What kind of exhaust system?
What kind of ignition?

I'd like to make a future build sound something like the numbers you've posted. It'd be good to learn why your power falls off right when it should be kicking in hardest.

The intake, heads, and rockers sound ideal for making serious revs in a 390. I don't know cams very well, but yours sounds pretty healthy. From what I hear, them Lunatic cams should run like crazy.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5571&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>bear, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Shoe,  I am running dynomax headers for an f150.  3 inch exhaust thru warlock mufflers which are way cool by the way.  I am limited to a 6by 3 moroso air filter .  I am going to switch to a K&N.  Over the winter i have cut the choke bowls off.  I cannot run a bigger air cleaner because I had to cut the fire wall out and set the engine back about 6 inches and the air cleaner is right next the cowl.  I am running 4.30 gears with 30 inch tall tires.  I had another person suggest the timing might be off I don't really know.  what do you think.   </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/17/2001
Shoe, I am running dynomax headers for an f150. 3 inch exhaust thru warlock mufflers which are way cool by the way. I am limited to a 6by 3 moroso air filter . I am going to switch to a K&N. Over the winter i have cut the choke bowls off. I cannot run a bigger air cleaner because I had to cut the fire wall out and set the engine back about 6 inches and the air cleaner is right next the cowl. I am running 4.30 gears with 30 inch tall tires. I had another person suggest the timing might be off I don't really know. what do you think.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5578&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Are those low-flange headers which only port-match emissions-era FE heads or are they high flange headers which port-match to Ed heads and pre-emissions heads?  If you have a 5/16" port mismatch, you could be developing a turbulent restriction at the header flange at 5000RPM.<br><br>Also, have you tried winding it out with the air cleaner removed?  That's a heck of a lotta flow you're pulling from a six inch diameter filter.  What's your manifold vacuum look like at WOT and 5000RPM?<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- Dave Shoe, 03/18/2001
Are those low-flange headers which only port-match emissions-era FE heads or are they high flange headers which port-match to Ed heads and pre-emissions heads? If you have a 5/16" port mismatch, you could be developing a turbulent restriction at the header flange at 5000RPM.

Also, have you tried winding it out with the air cleaner removed? That's a heck of a lotta flow you're pulling from a six inch diameter filter. What's your manifold vacuum look like at WOT and 5000RPM?

Shoe.
 RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/18/2001
the headers are right the ports are the same. come to think of it the motor seemed real crisp the the whole rpm range with the air cleaner off. never really checked the manifold vacuum at 5000 or wot.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5586&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>FE427TP, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>what size of fuel line are you running? are you using an electric fuel pump? is the fuel filter clogged? was the gasket matching transfered from the head to the intake or was the gasket just held up to each of them and matched? </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- FE427TP, 03/18/2001
what size of fuel line are you running? are you using an electric fuel pump? is the fuel filter clogged? was the gasket matching transfered from the head to the intake or was the gasket just held up to each of them and matched?
 RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/19/2001
3/8 fuel line, carter electric fuel pump, head to intake match. I had a good day temperature wise and put on a k&n filter and seemed to make a big difference.
Thanks for everyone,s input.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5575&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>410cougar, <i>03/17/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>are you in ny. my father bought a lincoln off a guy that had a early 80's rangfer with a 390 in it. look like a sleeper other then those dual chrome exaust tip sticking out. open the hood an it was all engine. just wondering just thought it would be neet to run into that guy agin.  </blockquote> Re: 390 -- 410cougar, 03/17/2001
are you in ny. my father bought a lincoln off a guy that had a early 80's rangfer with a 390 in it. look like a sleeper other then those dual chrome exaust tip sticking out. open the hood an it was all engine. just wondering just thought it would be neet to run into that guy agin.
 RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/18/2001
nope sorry i am from pennsylvania, southwest. I thought mine was unique. I would like to talk to him also. Mine is definately not a sleeper . But i wish i had a nickle for every time i got asked if it had a 5.0 in it. I usually leave the hood on . I was thinking about putting the 390 birds on the front fenders. thanks for writing.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5582&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RC Moser, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>What a ride, How do you get it to pass Pa. emission standards or is it just for the track. You never mentioned what dist. you was running or the total advance? My hunch is it's a dist/timing/ total advance problem if it's not starving for air. I seen in hot rod mag. a home made ram air system made from stove pipe adapters That would be a neat thing and if you do have a air starvation problem could be the anwser. I have that mag. some where if you want the information. </blockquote> Re: 390 -- RC Moser, 03/18/2001
What a ride, How do you get it to pass Pa. emission standards or is it just for the track. You never mentioned what dist. you was running or the total advance? My hunch is it's a dist/timing/ total advance problem if it's not starving for air. I seen in hot rod mag. a home made ram air system made from stove pipe adapters That would be a neat thing and if you do have a air starvation problem could be the anwser. I have that mag. some where if you want the information.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5584&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>bear, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks for the compliment.  I have it titled as a collectable vehicle.  which is emissions exempt.  I never really ran it at the track.  there is a car club that puts a street race on in aliquippa that i ran at a couple of times. no times or nothing who ever gets to the other end first wins.  I am running it with the autolite vacuum advance dist.  with a recurve kit full advance at 2500.  i also have petronix instead of the points.  i also read an article about the ram air box and have been thinking about making one.  thanks for the input </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/18/2001
Thanks for the compliment. I have it titled as a collectable vehicle. which is emissions exempt. I never really ran it at the track. there is a car club that puts a street race on in aliquippa that i ran at a couple of times. no times or nothing who ever gets to the other end first wins. I am running it with the autolite vacuum advance dist. with a recurve kit full advance at 2500. i also have petronix instead of the points. i also read an article about the ram air box and have been thinking about making one. thanks for the input
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5595&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ANDY, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Gday Bear. Sounds like a similarish combo to myself. 390 .040 forged flat tops, Edelbrock rpm 16 bolt heads, rpm manifold, Holley 750 vac sec, 10:1 compression,Lunati solid cam specs off hand are 235/245@.050  .570IN .580EX 108SEP installed at 104.5(1.5 over suggested), custom tri-y headers 1 7/8 primaries. This combo revs its ring off!(ring in australia=ass). I run this combo with the standard ebock valve springs so I cant see them being a problem but you had better watch it. From memory that Ex lift is getting close to max for those springs and if your lifters pump up a bit ...well. Maybe check total advance, should be about 38. cant remember what carb you said but check secondaries and power valve you dont want that pv shutting down at the top end. <br>GOOD LUCK!<br>ANDY </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- ANDY, 03/18/2001
Gday Bear. Sounds like a similarish combo to myself. 390 .040 forged flat tops, Edelbrock rpm 16 bolt heads, rpm manifold, Holley 750 vac sec, 10:1 compression,Lunati solid cam specs off hand are 235/245@.050 .570IN .580EX 108SEP installed at 104.5(1.5 over suggested), custom tri-y headers 1 7/8 primaries. This combo revs its ring off!(ring in australia=ass). I run this combo with the standard ebock valve springs so I cant see them being a problem but you had better watch it. From memory that Ex lift is getting close to max for those springs and if your lifters pump up a bit ...well. Maybe check total advance, should be about 38. cant remember what carb you said but check secondaries and power valve you dont want that pv shutting down at the top end.
GOOD LUCK!
ANDY
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5602&Reply=5562><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Re: 390</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>bear, <i>03/19/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>thanks andy .  sounds like a screamer. I give the time a going over.  I think the biggest problem was suffication.<br><br> </blockquote> RE: Re: 390 -- bear, 03/19/2001
thanks andy . sounds like a screamer. I give the time a going over. I think the biggest problem was suffication.

 RE: Re: 390 -- ANDY, 03/19/2001
I run a 14x3 K&N. Felt a slight increase in revability after about 5800 compared to the paper element.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5556&Reply=5556><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>428 heads</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ffr1110, <i>03/16/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Any one heard of a 410 head on a 428cj? </blockquote> 428 heads -- ffr1110, 03/16/2001
Any one heard of a 410 head on a 428cj?
 RE: 428 heads -- Dave Shoe, 03/16/2001
It's definitely not stock.

A 410 head is the same as a 352, 390, and 428 head of those years and could have any of several casting variations.

Shoe.
 RE: 428 heads -- salid, 03/17/2001
What year cj? Is it really a cj or is it a 66/67 428? The 66/67 may well have come with the 410 head.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5547&Reply=5547><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Help now!!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Al, <i>03/16/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I just put lifters in my 360 and got ot timed and cranked and then realized I left out the vally pan that sits below the intake . It oils the lifters doesent it? Need to ask before I take it all apart again. </blockquote> Help now!! -- Al, 03/16/2001
I just put lifters in my 360 and got ot timed and cranked and then realized I left out the vally pan that sits below the intake . It oils the lifters doesent it? Need to ask before I take it all apart again.
 You probably do want to reinstall that pan. -- Dave Shoe, 03/16/2001
It's not a critical item, but in your motor it would be better to keep the pan istalled. If you don't reinstall it, it's likely that no problem would ever result.

The valley pan is not used for oiling anything. I believe it's sorta used for NOT oiling the underside of the intake.

The intake manifold has got an exhaust gas crossover in it, and I believe that minimizing oil splash seems to be the best for this area, as the hot area likes to carbonize oil when it hits it and starts baking. The intake manifold already has the most important steel baffle rivited to it's underside, but the valley baffle manages to stop most of the crankshaft-and-lifter-whipped oil before it gets upstairs to the intake.

I've taken a couple FE engines apart which have had large chunks of coal attached to the bottom of the intake. I don't recall whether these motors had the valley tray installed or not, but it makes me think they may not have.The chunks did no harm to the motor, but it's just not as easy to drive with the knowledge that your engine may be cooking "treats" for you as you travel.

If you just wanna get the project over with, ignoring the pan will likely be of no consequence. If you wanna nail the job the first time, either reinstall the pan, or use this event to rationallize buying an Edelbrock RPM intake, as it blocks off the exhaust crossover and doesn't care about the tray.

Only my opinion,
Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5577&Reply=5547><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>New proablem</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Al, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I put the pan back in and it did help with oiling lifters     ( the tapping keep on without it and quit with it installed). now Im getting a loud tapping from, I think, both sides and a good miss when its running. I checked the wires, plugs, carb , push rod straightness, and ignition timming. There good. So confirm my fears . Its either the rocker arms and shafts or a burnt valve or valves..........you think?  With my luck with this truck its proably both and the oil pump. Ive only had the truck since December and this is my first FE.  I want to keep it and the FE engine if I can get this one going good and it can be reliable. I have heard that FE oiling systems and the valve trains are weak but can be very strong with some easy mods. What are they? Sorry about the letter here but I want this FE to run well for a long time. </blockquote> New proablem -- Al, 03/18/2001
I put the pan back in and it did help with oiling lifters ( the tapping keep on without it and quit with it installed). now Im getting a loud tapping from, I think, both sides and a good miss when its running. I checked the wires, plugs, carb , push rod straightness, and ignition timming. There good. So confirm my fears . Its either the rocker arms and shafts or a burnt valve or valves..........you think? With my luck with this truck its proably both and the oil pump. Ive only had the truck since December and this is my first FE. I want to keep it and the FE engine if I can get this one going good and it can be reliable. I have heard that FE oiling systems and the valve trains are weak but can be very strong with some easy mods. What are they? Sorry about the letter here but I want this FE to run well for a long time.
 Well that bites. -- Dave Shoe, 03/18/2001
Complications stink, but they're part of the game.

As for FE oiling: The stock FE oiling system is GREAT, except when it comes to the oil pan. Fast front-sump FEs can dump the oil out of the pan when accelerating or cornering hard. I don't suspect you are dealing with any oil pan limitations, so this is not a factor to you.

I've heard all the stories about how you need to drill and chamfer FE oil passages, add oil restrictiors to the heads, etc, etc, etc, and find that most are unneeded unless you are hanging the revs way out there. The FE flows oil just fine, so long as the pump pick-up can find any oil in the pan.

Stock rockershafts are not sufficient to supporting modern fast-ramp camshaft profiles when coupled to performance springs, but they work great in any stock cam FE application.

A burnt valve isn't gonna show up only after an intake reinstall - it's gonna show up gradually over time. still, if you suspect a bad valve, it's worth a cylinder compression check.

Why was the intake removed to begin with? This info may help diagnosis. A new "miss" does not sound like a mal-adjusted valve - it sounds like high-voltage leaks.

Shoe.
 Check the pushrods... -- Ross, 03/19/2001
Years ago on my 390, I did a quick manifold swap and tightened the rocker shaft blts too quickly. Oil will not compress, and the lifters didnt bleed down as quick as I tightened. I bent a bucnh of pushrods. Live and learn.

Maybe you did the same, if you did, next time tighten them more slowly, you need to push that oil out of a very small hole or they have to give somewhere
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5581&Reply=5547><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Old parts are matched, did you?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RC Moser, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Not knowing why you torn it down, so I'll comment on the put to gather part. If you valve train is old you have to keep the components matched. Meaning each lifter, push rod and rocker wears a certain pattern and if not matched the push rods will not spin or oil properly. This could be the noise you hear.  If you didn't you can remove the valve covers start the engine and observe which push rods are spinning and which ones aren't. If they are not spinning they won't oil. May not be your problem, but I seen this done several times causing the chatter. As Ed said fill us in on the complete history, then we might come up with a solid soluation.  </blockquote> RE: Old parts are matched, did you? -- RC Moser, 03/18/2001
Not knowing why you torn it down, so I'll comment on the put to gather part. If you valve train is old you have to keep the components matched. Meaning each lifter, push rod and rocker wears a certain pattern and if not matched the push rods will not spin or oil properly. This could be the noise you hear. If you didn't you can remove the valve covers start the engine and observe which push rods are spinning and which ones aren't. If they are not spinning they won't oil. May not be your problem, but I seen this done several times causing the chatter. As Ed said fill us in on the complete history, then we might come up with a solid soluation.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5585&Reply=5547><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Old parts are matched, did you?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>bear, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>i was wondering if you checked to make sure the shafts weren't clogged with thick oil slugg.  my father had trouble with this recently he pulled the plugs on the end of the rocker shaft and they were clogged.  they weren't dripping oil down a couple of the push rods . </blockquote> RE: Old parts are matched, did you? -- bear, 03/18/2001
i was wondering if you checked to make sure the shafts weren't clogged with thick oil slugg. my father had trouble with this recently he pulled the plugs on the end of the rocker shaft and they were clogged. they weren't dripping oil down a couple of the push rods .
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5589&Reply=5547><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Old parts are matched, did you?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Al, <i>03/18/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I pulled it down to check the lifters and I  did find that several had gone flat and were no longer workin right  ( the hydraulics werent hydraulicking). This actually solved the proablem (or so I thought) for 2 days then it started again . The truck has 164K on it and Im pretty sure its the original engine. Even if its not it has alot of miles on it. I will be busy the next few days but I will pull the valve covers off again and see if the push rods are spinning . I  checked right after I buttoned everything up but I'll d it again. Im gonna keep pluggin away at this thing till I get it fixed. New push rods and Rocker Arm shafts wouldn't be a bad idea . I checked the shafts and they show some noticable wear on the contact points with the push rods.   </blockquote> RE: Old parts are matched, did you? -- Al, 03/18/2001
I pulled it down to check the lifters and I did find that several had gone flat and were no longer workin right ( the hydraulics werent hydraulicking). This actually solved the proablem (or so I thought) for 2 days then it started again . The truck has 164K on it and Im pretty sure its the original engine. Even if its not it has alot of miles on it. I will be busy the next few days but I will pull the valve covers off again and see if the push rods are spinning . I checked right after I buttoned everything up but I'll d it again. Im gonna keep pluggin away at this thing till I get it fixed. New push rods and Rocker Arm shafts wouldn't be a bad idea . I checked the shafts and they show some noticable wear on the contact points with the push rods.
 RE: Old parts are matched, did you? -- RC Moser, 03/19/2001
Al, that's quite a few miles, Might want to put a dial indicator on the rocker and see how much lift you are getting off the cam lobes. Could be a worn cam lobe. But, a compression check or leak down check would verify the valves and bottom end are good. To me anything over 120 would be good for that many miles. Hope you get it fix.
 Recomended Parts -- Al, 03/19/2001
Since I plan to drop a new engine in it any way I wanted to get your suggestions on parts for the build up. I already have an Edelbrock 600 carb and I want a Performer or Performer RPM intake. which one do you prefer? I've also already installed a complete Pertronix ignition. I heard the engine will actually get better gas milege with the 4brl if I stay out of the secondaries. Is that accurate. Does that mean I will get worse than stock milege on the highway? Any suggestions on cams are welcome. I heard and read about the new roller cam setup for the FE. Any experience with it? I want the truck to have good street manners, be very reliable, but be a little hotter than stock.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5544&Reply=5544><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>ignition problem solved!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ben, <i>03/16/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>i just want to thank all of those folks who passed on suggestions pertaining to my ignition probs.  in case yr wondering, the culprit was a bad ignition module inside of the distributor and several bad spark plug wires.  i cant believe i had a few wires go bad bec i just bought a new autolite set for my 390 from napa!  oh well, such is life!<br>thanks again everyone! long live the FE's </blockquote> ignition problem solved! -- ben, 03/16/2001
i just want to thank all of those folks who passed on suggestions pertaining to my ignition probs. in case yr wondering, the culprit was a bad ignition module inside of the distributor and several bad spark plug wires. i cant believe i had a few wires go bad bec i just bought a new autolite set for my 390 from napa! oh well, such is life!
thanks again everyone! long live the FE's
 Autolite wires should have been good. -- Dave Shoe, 03/16/2001
Autolite doesn't mess around with cheap cable, so they generally work well. It's good to know they can go bad sometimes.

Hey, it beats a hole in the head, any day. Glad to hear you're back in business.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5536&Reply=5536><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>heads up</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>dave, <i>03/15/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>ok guys my re-built 428 plot thickens(a lot) the fresh heads are both C6TE-G one head has the 16 bolt pattern and CJ size exhaust ports......the other head has 12 holes, only the lower diagonal holes are there! the distance from the center hole to the top of the port on the 16 hole head is aprox .750 in. and the 12 bolt head distance is closer to .900 (15/16 in.) The date c odes are both very close late 65. Oh yeah that book that had me thinking I had a PI block cause of the welded letter "A" on the back might be in-correct I do not have the webbing in the mains and there is not a 428 cast into the water jacket behind the center freeze plug. IU crank and 4.156 slugs point to a 30 over 428 ...So does anyone have a clue as to what is up with these heads and how a the different exhaust size or pattern would affect it? Thanks  </blockquote> heads up -- dave, 03/15/2001
ok guys my re-built 428 plot thickens(a lot) the fresh heads are both C6TE-G one head has the 16 bolt pattern and CJ size exhaust ports......the other head has 12 holes, only the lower diagonal holes are there! the distance from the center hole to the top of the port on the 16 hole head is aprox .750 in. and the 12 bolt head distance is closer to .900 (15/16 in.) The date c odes are both very close late 65. Oh yeah that book that had me thinking I had a PI block cause of the welded letter "A" on the back might be in-correct I do not have the webbing in the mains and there is not a 428 cast into the water jacket behind the center freeze plug. IU crank and 4.156 slugs point to a 30 over 428 ...So does anyone have a clue as to what is up with these heads and how a the different exhaust size or pattern would affect it? Thanks
 RE: heads up -- Dave Shoe, 03/18/2001
A "C" block is a reinforced 428, an "A" block is a regular 428. The 428 inside the water jscket is sometimes located in oddball locations, not just the floor of the center core plug. Also, it's sometimes not there at all. Some 390s even have a "390" in the hole.

I'll check the garage tomorrow to see what distances the two standard (emissions era and pre-emissions) exhaust FE port styles normally have.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5524&Reply=5524><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>352 Intake</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Paul, <i>03/15/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I installed a Performer intake on my engine without doing anything about the exhaust crossovers.  Edelbrock said to do nothing is okay.  Were they right or should I have blocked them off somehow? </blockquote> 352 Intake -- Paul, 03/15/2001
I installed a Performer intake on my engine without doing anything about the exhaust crossovers. Edelbrock said to do nothing is okay. Were they right or should I have blocked them off somehow?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5535&Reply=5524><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 352 Intake</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>03/15/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>If your car is driven on the street especially in cold weather, you made the correct decision not to block off the exhaust crossover.  There are lots of "tricks" that are best left to racecars. This is the kind of modification that would only show up on the clocks at the track, if at all. </blockquote> RE: 352 Intake -- Travis Miller, 03/15/2001
If your car is driven on the street especially in cold weather, you made the correct decision not to block off the exhaust crossover. There are lots of "tricks" that are best left to racecars. This is the kind of modification that would only show up on the clocks at the track, if at all.
 RE: 352 Intake TRAVIS -- Paul, 03/16/2001
Hey thanks Travis for your imput. I am not a racer, just a weekend street cruiser with the family
 RE: 352 Intake -- Dave Shoe, 03/16/2001
I drive my FE452 year round up here in Minnesota and have never had a problem with the lack of heat crossovers in the Blue Thunder intake (I still have a two foot thick blanket of snow across my lawn, dagnabbit! Six feet for the season, but the sun is winning the battle against the snow these days.)

Running with the crossover operating is generally fine, but if you find your carb vaporlocking in warmer weather due to the ethanol that's now mixed with most gas, an effective solition to the problem would seem to be blocking the exhaust crossover, particularly in an aluminum intake, where the heat is more quickly conducted to the carb.

I agree that, if the car runs fine with the passage functional, leave it be.

JMO,
Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5523&Reply=5523><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>427 block?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jeff H., <i>03/15/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Check this supposed 427 block on ebay:<br><br><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=568488355&r=0&t=0">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=568488355&r=0&t=0</a><br><br>I thought ALL 427's had screw-in freeze plugs?<br>  </blockquote> 427 block? -- Jeff H., 03/15/2001
Check this supposed 427 block on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=568488355&r=0&t=0

I thought ALL 427's had screw-in freeze plugs?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=5526&Reply=5523><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>That is an unusual block.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>03/15/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>BB has been talking about that block for a year.<br><br>It's unusual in that it's one of the few "early" 427 blocks with reinforced cylinders - a feature which became much more common around 1966 or so.<br><br>If BB says it's a good block, it probably is.  He doesn't pussy-foot around the facts.<br><br>Note that early 427s had the two-bolt engine mount bosses and press-in freeze plugs.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> That is an unusual block. -- Dave Shoe, 03/15/2001
BB has been talking about that block for a year.

It's unusual in that it's one of the few "early" 427 blocks with reinforced cylinders - a feature which became much more common around 1966 or so.

If BB says it's a good block, it probably is. He doesn't pussy-foot around the facts.

Note that early 427s had the two-bolt engine mount bosses and press-in freeze plugs.

Shoe.
 RE: That is an unusual block. -- emil g.3/17/01, 03/16/2001
looking to purchase 1965 427 code m complete engine, for my 1965 mercury montery car looks great but needs powertrain, owend car for 20 years,blew engine 2 years ago ,looking to get back on road. hope you can direct me to this motor,thanks emil.
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