Original Message
RE: FE versus 409 Chevy
By gerry - 12/22/2000 1:51:43 PM; IP 208.217.67.189
It’s an interesting analysis, P. But it’s mostly an emotional argument.

For those who don’t understand the engineering of the Chevrolet 409, it is not remarkably different from most engines of the day, but was comparatively unusual in that the “W” (or as we now say “Dubya”) engine’s combustion chamber was in the cylinder rather than the head. If you can imagine that rather than the block’s deck being machined at the usual 45-degree angle to the crank it was machined at, if I recollect, a 37-degree angle. The cylinder heads were completely flat. The engine was at least competitive with anyone else’s offering and it was far from a dog. . It should also be noted regarding the W series that these engines had very large bores and relatively short strokes even in the last 427 version the Z11, and it was a very stout performer. But that’s where it left off because GM was well into the development of the Mark series of engines with the Mark IV going into production cars in the 1965 model year. There was no real motivation to further develop the W engine since it had been superceded by the Mark IV engine with a better, more traditional combustion chamber design and better flowing ports. It would be similar to Ford continuing racing development of the FE with the Lima 385 series well into production. The Mark IV, not the FE, killed the W.

Yes, the FE was an engine of legend…no question about it, and it enjoyed a much longer production and racing life than the 409/427, but I remember a few Pontiacs in those early NASCAR days out there whompin’ butt too. That doesn’t make them king or necessarily diminish the FE or anyone else’s powerplant.
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 FE versus MEL -- P, 12/22/2000
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 FE versus 409 Chevy -- P, 12/22/2000
 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- Brian, 12/22/2000
Collapse <b>RE: FE versus 409 Chevy</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>gerry, <i>12/22/2000</i></font>RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- gerry, 12/22/2000
 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- Brian, 12/25/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3779&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3779" onclick="return false;">RE: FE versus 409 Chevy</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RC Moser, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- RC Moser, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3781&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3781" onclick="return false;">RE: FE versus 409 Chevy</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Stanley Superior, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- Stanley Superior, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3782&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3782" onclick="return false;">Nothing to write home about?  Think again,</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Louie, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Nothing to write home about? Think again, -- Louie, 12/22/2000
 RE: Scrooge has nothing to write home about.! -- RC Moser, 12/22/2000
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 Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- Alan, 12/22/2000
 One more thing -- Alan, 12/22/2000
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 RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/22/2000
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 RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- Stanley Superior, 12/22/2000
 Having a problem backing up your statement? -- Louie, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3794&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3794" onclick="return false;">Reason for smallblocks in NASCAR</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Alan, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Reason for smallblocks in NASCAR -- Alan, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3797&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3797" onclick="return false;">RE: Reason for smallblocks in NASCAR</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Stanley Superior, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Reason for smallblocks in NASCAR -- Stanley Superior, 12/22/2000
 Sideoilers not available 40yrs. ago. n/m -- Alan, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3802&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3802" onclick="return false;">It is well known among those who...</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Whole Lotta Tom, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 It is well known among those who... -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/22/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3816&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3816" onclick="return false;">385 Oiling</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/23/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 385 Oiling -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/23/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3828&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3828" onclick="return false;">Jim Not-Too Smart</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Whole Lotta Tom, <i>12/24/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Jim Not-Too Smart -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/24/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3830&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3830" onclick="return false;">RE: Whole Lotta Hubris</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/24/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Whole Lotta Hubris -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/24/2000
 Nice thrust & parry, fellas. All that and 'hubris', too? Neato. :-D [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/24/2000
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 RE: Whole Lotta Hubris -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/24/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3839&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3839" onclick="return false;">RE: Whole Lotta Hubris</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/24/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Whole Lotta Hubris -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/24/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3933&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3933" onclick="return false;">Thou Art Not Worthy writes "Hubris John" Craft</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Whole Lotta Tom, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Thou Art Not Worthy writes "Hubris John" Craft -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3936&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3936" onclick="return false;">RE:WHOLELOTTAHUBRIS (The Sequel)</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE:WHOLELOTTAHUBRIS (The Sequel) -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3937&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3937" onclick="return false;">The lapdog yippeth</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Whole Lotta Tom, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 The lapdog yippeth -- Whole Lotta Tom, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3938&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3938" onclick="return false;">Re: more name calling?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Re: more name calling? -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3949&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3949" onclick="return false;">RE: Re: more name calling?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>406Custom300, <i>12/29/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Re: more name calling? -- 406Custom300, 12/29/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3952&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3952" onclick="return false;">RE:  WHT's Career in Auto Journalism</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/29/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: WHT's Career in Auto Journalism -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/29/2000
 Swell, guys - points made, all-'round. We're quits, Ok? [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/29/2000
 "Lapdog"? ::ahem:: Its a draw. Let's move on. [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/28/2000
 "Corpulent"? Ok - game called on account of animus. [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/28/2000
 RE: Whole Lotta Hubris -- 406Custom300, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3851&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3851" onclick="return false;">RE: 385 Oiling</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>oil man, <i>12/25/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: 385 Oiling -- oil man, 12/25/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3854&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3854" onclick="return false;">RE: 385 Oiling</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/26/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: 385 Oiling -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/26/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3861&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3861" onclick="return false;">Since when does a 385 need a dry sump?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/26/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Since when does a 385 need a dry sump? -- RJP, 12/26/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3862&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3862" onclick="return false;">RE: RJP is absolutly right</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Stanley Superior, <i>12/27/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: RJP is absolutly right -- Stanley Superior, 12/27/2000
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 RE: RJP AND Stanley AREN'T SO RIGHT -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/27/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3890&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3890" onclick="return false;">RE: Dropping names makes an arguement?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/27/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Dropping names makes an arguement? -- RJP, 12/27/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3896&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3896" onclick="return false;">RE: Dropping names makes an arguement?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Dropping names makes an arguement? -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3907&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3907" onclick="return false;">RE: No inane rants here...</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: No inane rants here... -- RJP, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3932&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3932" onclick="return false;">Re: instructions.</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Re: instructions. -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3947&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3947" onclick="return false;">RE: I await your devine guidance....</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: I await your devine guidance.... -- RJP, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3951&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3951" onclick="return false;">RE: Misguided</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JCRAFTCARS, <i>12/29/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Misguided -- JCRAFTCARS, 12/29/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3961&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3961" onclick="return false;">RE: no controlled substance</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/29/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: no controlled substance -- RJP, 12/29/2000
 Gentlemen - stop arguing ad hominem & shake on it. [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/29/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3893&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3893" onclick="return false;">RE: 385 Oiling</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>406Custom300, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: 385 Oiling -- 406Custom300, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3908&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3908" onclick="return false;">RE: 385 Oiling</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: 385 Oiling -- RJP, 12/28/2000
 RE: 385 Oiling -- 406Custom300, 12/29/2000
 RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- Brian, 12/25/2000
 RE:NHRA banned big blocks in small body P/S -- Tim, 12/26/2000
 RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- 406Custom300, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3891&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3891" onclick="return false;">RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR?</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>406Custom300, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Precious Windsors in NASCAR? -- 406Custom300, 12/28/2000
 Sorry, folks - its my call. Actions elsewhere don't accrue. [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3798&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3798" onclick="return false;">Chew on this Randy... er.... Stanley</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>DMA, <i>12/22/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 Chew on this Randy... er.... Stanley -- DMA, 12/22/2000
 Nascar -- dj, 12/23/2000
 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- Brian, 12/25/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3857&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3857" onclick="return false;">RE: FE versus 409 Chevy</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>P, <i>12/26/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- P, 12/26/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3866&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3866" onclick="return false;">RE: FE versus 409 Chevy</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RC Moser, <i>12/27/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- RC Moser, 12/27/2000
 RE: FE versus 409 Chevy -- Lou, 12/27/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3929&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3929" onclick="return false;">How's this for MEL power boy's?...</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>steiny, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 How's this for MEL power boy's?... -- steiny, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3948&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3948" onclick="return false;">RE: How's this for MEL power boy's?...</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/28/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: How's this for MEL power boy's?... -- RJP, 12/28/2000
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=3950&Reply=3773><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<a href="#" id="anchor3950" onclick="return false;">RE: Kentz & Leslie...</a>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>steiny, <i>12/29/2000</i></font><script type="text/javascript">
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 RE: Kentz & Leslie... -- steiny, 12/29/2000
 RE: Kentz & Leslie... -- RJP, 12/29/2000
 NASCAR T-Bird with 430 MEL -- P, 12/29/2000
 RE: How's this for MEL power -- P, 12/29/2000
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