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Original Message
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| CJ/SCJ/3.91s & 4.30s.. |
| By Mike McQuesten - 11/21/2001 3:50:10 PM; IP 206.193.0.124 |
Thanks Scott for getting us revved up on these questions regarding Cobra Jet vs. Super Cobra Jet, rods, pistons, trays, gears........like a discussion could get any better than this! So many questions/comments have been brought up that I felt a new post would be in order.
I'd like to preface my comments/opinons with a disclaimer: I'm not trying to be a smart ass or know-it-all. I really enjoy the exchange of information that this forum brings forth. It's interesting. Just when I think I know most of it, up pops something new & previously unknown. As an example, a year ago I learned from another forum on CJs that the Drag Pack was available in a non ram air vehicle, thus a Q code. I'd always "thought" that the drag pack option included the ram air package (thus my thinking was that all Drag Pack equipped cars were at least -R- codes) along with all the other goodies that came with the drag pack. I knew that an R code ram air car was not necessarily a drag pack car. My point is that I continue to learn from the wealth of knowledge and experience that many of you have.
I've been an FE fan(atic) since '61 when my neighbor drove up in his brand new Sunliner, rangoon red, with tri power and stick overdrive. A genuine 390High Performance/401 horser. He traded in his slug '60 Impala 348,tri power, stick car for the Ford! I was a happy 13 year old Ford boy for sure. From then on I've watched, read, followed most things FE. But I continue to learn.
Okay, enough BS here's my comment & question with regard to the mighty Cobra Jet:
Mel's points are well taken as ususal. This time specific to the windage tray/CJ application. I agree with him that it's very possible that the early 428 standard CJs did not come with the windage tray. I had thought that they had based on some limited experience. Something I read somewhere. Mostly based on the one and only genuine 428 Cobra Jet I've owned. It came from a '69 lime gold Fairlane Cobra. The Cobra was totalled sitting high in a bone yard in 1976. The car was VIN coded as a 3.50 open, R code with 4 speed. It was NOT a drag pack car. The rear & trans were gone. But the apparently original engine was still there. I got it for an honest to goodness $112.50. I offered a $100 to the yard owner's $125 asking. He countered and I took it. I don't know or remember the build date but I believe it was a "later" build car due to the factory Ford low finned aluminum valve covers. All early Cobras and Mustangs with 428s I'd seen in '69 were dressed with the later '67 through '68 chrome tin Power by Ford v-covers. So I hauled the complete powerplant home, carb to flywheel, exhaust manifolds and all. A hundred and twelve damn dollars. I still have the receipt hanging on the wall to remind myself that I got a good deal once.
I eventually tore the engine down. The odometer on the Cobra was in the 60s, can't remember exactly. The engine appeared virgin. Original Ford head gaskets, etc. Timing sprocket was a mess. It was a nylon sprocket with many teeth in the pan. But it had a windage tray. I believe it was assembled at the engine plant that way. That's all I know 'bout that. But now I know more.
Now for Royce's contention that you could buy a Ford built car with factory installed 3.91s or 4.30s and the car was NOT optioned with the drag pack or traction lock. I want to make sure to give Royce due credit on the numerous posts he has made to help and enlighten many. You seem to know your stuff for sure. But this one I have to open mindidly question. I'm up for some learnin' on this.
I had always thought that a buyer could not buy a 428 Cobra Jet powered car with the axle code -V- (3.91:1) or the axle code -W-(4.30:1) without the drag package. Here's why I think this at this time. I was working at a Ford dealer in '69. We were a small dealership but we sold a few Performance cars. Up the Yakima valley was the big dealer that sold truck loads of CJ performance cars. I was there a lot checking any performance car out. The few of us performance boys (we always wished for a performance girl...)in the podunk dealership got the owner's approval to order a special car for pure stock drag racing. Just to have some fun and show the Mopar dealer across the alley that there was a Ford product that could beat their vaunted Roadtoads, Six Packs, and on and on. You gotta admit, that damn Mopar sure offered a lot of cool packages back then. So anyway, we spent a great deal of time selecting our promotional vehicle. We went with a formal roof Fairlane Cobra, drag pack, automatic, 3.91:1 with Ram Air. I can't site a specific written document at this time and frankly I don't care to go do any research on it right now,but I do NOT believe that Ford would sell a car with 3.91s/4.30s without the beefier lower end that was part of the "Super Cobra Jet" drag pack option. Not with any warrantly that's for sure. The 3.91s/4.30s were there for a purpose and the engineers knew it. They knew 5,000 rpms were going to be a rather regular thing. Thus you had to order the drag pack to get 'em and get the "427 style" (they were not sideoiler 427 rods) capscrew rods.
Of course, 3.91s/4.30s/4.11s/4.56s/4.88s/5.14s and many other ring & pinion sets were available over the counter. You, a friend, or your friendly Ford service department could install them into your nine inch housing in whatever vehicle you wanted and there was no traction lock requirement.
So I'd like to learn or know more about which cars you could buy with open 3.91/4.30s? Honestly I'm not saying it ain't so, I'm just wonderin' what & when? My mind is wide open on this one.
Thanks again to all of you for making this forum one of my fav lunch time reading endeavors and happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
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This thread, so far...
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