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 |  pistons -- Jay, 10/25/2003
What is the difference between a 360 and 390 piston? |
|  | RE: pistons -- ed cougar, 10/25/2003
I beleive the 390 has a longer stroke than the 360 therefore the compression heigth is different. The 360 stroke is 3.50 vs 3.78 for the 390 both have the same bore. Also the 390 piston has a slipper skirt and the 360 is a full skirted piston, hope that helped you out. |
| | | RE: pistons -- Jay, 10/25/2003
We tore down a motor which the valve cover ID and measurements we took say 390 but the pistons have a old TRW part number that refers to a 360... Is this possible? |
| | | | RE: pistons -- ed cougar, 10/25/2003
Sure it's very possible since the 390 block is identical to the 360 the only thing that makes it a 360 is the recipricating assembly. You can make it a 390 with a crank and piston change both use the same rod. |
| | | | | RE: rods aren't the same -- McQ, 10/26/2003
The 360 rods are essentially the 352 rod aka as the "long" rod - 6.540" while the 390 is of the "short" variety - 6.488 which are commonly found in the 406, 410, 427, 428 passenger car engines.
It seems that many early 360's, I can say the '68 for sure, used the 390-4V piston with the "long"rod. Later 360's I've seen had the full skirt slug.
Remember there was a '58 361 Edsel big block. These had the future 390 bore of 4.05 with the '58 352 3.5 stroke crank. |
| | | | | | McQ hits another home run. n/m -- james, 10/26/2003
n/m |
| | | | | | | The beauty of an fe -- ed cougar, 10/26/2003
Sorry I quess I gave you the wrong info, there's just so many combinations. Well at least I got the guys going ha. nice catch McQ. |
| | | | | | |  | RE: The beauty of an fe -- jay, 10/28/2003
So it is possible to hace 360m pistons in a 390 and it run |
 | 390 GT// Exhaust Manifolds -- Mike, 10/24/2003
Stock Exhaust Manifold... 428 Cobra Jet Manifolds or FPA Headers.??
Which would you use on your car thru a 2 1/4 in exhaust system. The motor is a 390 with 9.5 Comp 518 lift cam Edlebrock performer manifold, ported heads on the exhaust side and is balanced.Power is transmitted thru a C6 with 3:00 gears posi. The FPA headers are ceramic coated up to 2000 degrees. Thank you |
|  | RE: 390 GT// Exhaust Manifolds -- giacamo, 10/24/2003
true headers preform better but i like the cast iren quieter les pron for leaks. you be better off stiking with stock and spending your money on deaper gears...........3.00way to high for searious preformance gaines with a bilt 390............. |
| | Your intake is a real weenie. -- Royce Peterson, 10/24/2003
With that intake you won't need much of an exhaust system so stock 390 GT manifolds should work fine. The Edelbrock Performer 390 is a 25 year old design that was intended to increase gas mileage during the 1970's fuel shortage. It is worse than the stock cast iron intakes for performance although it does take a lot of weight off the front of the car.
Royce |
| Will Irun into trouble with my 390 if I -- Steve M, 10/24/2003
I found an adapter that will let me put my holley 650 4barrel on my 390 with a 2 barrel manifold. I am having carb problems with the stock 2 barrel and know that my 650 is good, has anybody had any experiences with this? I dont want to buy this adapter and have it run worse than it does now. |
| | RE: Depends. -- Gerry Proctor, 10/24/2003
If you intend to just put the carb on for a test, then that would be fine.
But if your intention is to use it on a more permanent bases, that would be a bad idea.
Those adapters suffer horrid mixture distribution issues which means that the fuel mixture won't be balanced cylinder-to-cylinder. You'll also suffer poor atomization and suspension which leads to fuel puddling on the manifold floor. |
| | | RE: Depends. -- Steve M, 10/24/2003
Thanks Gerry, I was kind of thinking that, but wanted to see what everybody else had to say. I was just going to see if I could use it for this winter until I could start my build... |
| | RE: Will Irun into trouble with my 390 if I -- giacamo, 10/24/2003
steve just find anouther two ballow carbthear a lot cheaper then the adapters iv,e sean......... |
| 390 Crank -- Dale Cecil, 10/23/2003
Ok guys, I need your help again. I have my Mustang 390 engine out of the car and on a stand. I am trying to find the source of a knock in the engine without totally dismantling the engine. In this process, I discovered a large about "nickel" sized hole in the rear counter weight of the crank. Inside the hole I can see what appears to be welded lead shot. Is this normal for this hole to be open, or is there supposed to be a slug in it?
Thanks,
Dale
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| | RE: 390 Crank -- Zack, 10/23/2003
dale, did you have good oil pressure? if so one of my suggestions/ or questions would be to check for a wrist pin knock. Im no pro butit could be possible. also if you have the pan off the bottom end check the thrust on the crank. belive it or not, I just got done replaceing a .010 under crank that broke in half in my 390 with only 50 - 60 eazy engine break in (no pun intended) miles. It knocked like crazy after it broke but I still had great oil pressure at idle, and above. I dont Know about you but I havent herd of this happening to many people at all, but it happened to me first hand. I think during the machineing process the crank got mis handeled or droped or some thing and formed a hire line fracture in it I wish you luck on your engine maybe this info will help. Lets hope its some thing simple. |
| | RE: 390 Crank -- giacamo, 10/24/2003
some times wen balancing the crank the rear counter weight gets drilled to deep so you put some weld back in the hole to giveit the weight to balance out your bo bo .dont worry if some one took the time to ad weight it,s problie ok...any thing can make a noise even fuel pumps...? |
| | | RE: 390 Crank -- Dale Cecil, 10/25/2003
Giacamo,
I think I may have figured out the problem with your help. That plug I found in the engine may have been part of the crank balancing material. It does fit in the hole in the rear counter weight. So, when it came out, the crank became unbalanced and therefore started to put stress in other areas of the crank causing bearing stress and tolerances to change. I am going to go with this theory unless someone here with more experience and knowledge changes my mind. I am going to finish disassembling the engine and take the crank to the machine shop and have it balanced. I'll bet they find it out of specs.
Dale
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| did any one see the new 61- 66 t-bird FPA headers -- Zack, 10/23/2003
Id like to get some info on thease headers.
Whats the primary tube diameter, and the Collector diameter. what about the rpm range?
last but not least, the price. |
| | RE: did any one see the new 61- 66 t-bird FPA headers -- Tim, 10/23/2003
FPA's generall run $400 for a set, and come with the collectors. I will be buying a set for my 65 galaxie as soon as I can scrape the cash up...
I've heard nothing but good things about them..
Website url
http://www.fordpowertrain.com/Headers.htm |
| | RE: did any one see the new 61- 66 t-bird FPA head -- Glenn, 10/24/2003
Well, I can't give you the specs but I can say they do make a quality product. I have a set of FPA headers on my '59 Tbird. They fit well and beat the heck out of the original "slab" manifolds. |
| | | RE: did any one see the new 61- 66 t-bird FPA head -- ValveTubeHead, 10/28/2003
I have a set going onto my '61 bird...it's a really tight squeaze...the alternative is custom. The gals and guys at Sanderson headers said they would do me a custom set for about $1K...Stan at FPA was kind enough to jig for production, on promise of 20+ orders...long story short.
I think the chrome ones are $450 and ceramic coated are $675
I'm knee deep in the final stages of getting my bird back together...the headers do fit, but again its real tight, particulatly at passenger side shock tower. The collectors snake smartly by the pitman and idler arms nicely. However, I couldn't avoid scratching the ceramic coating in a couple spots...installing fresh motor and C6 conversion simulantiously. I still need to nudge things around a bit, before tightening mounts and supports...headers are rubbing the mentioned shock tower, hope I can find a bit of clearance. Email me If you'd like to see some pics.
Gotta be better than stock
Heres the old correspondance I had with Stan:
-------------------
From:ValveTubeHead
Sent: Fri 2/28/2003 4:00 PM
To: 'FordPowert@aol.com'
Subject: RE: '61-'63 Tbird Headers
Any verdict judge?
...the crowd hushes
Matt
------------
From: FordPowert@aol.com
Sent: Fri 2/28/2003 6:40 PM
To: Matt (aka ValveTubeHead)
Subject: Re: '61-'63 Tbird Headers
We, the members of the jury,- - - - - -in our best effort to avoid a mis trial, have asked the judge to have our heads examined for taking on such an S.O.B. of a Job ! However, we aim to please so, we move on from here. The verdict became clear that a version of a "shorty" is the worlds only hope. That steering box and moreover, pitman arm at full left turn, leaves nothing for space. We will plan on a 1 3/4 primary shorty but the collector will have to be 2 1/2" and no larger.It will certainly be better by a far cry, than a stock manifold choice but it is very clear why no one has attempted this before. We should have the prototype in 10 days and a cost. Orders should be completed in about 6 weeks.Keep in touch.
Best Regards,
Stan F.P.A. |
| | | | RE: did any one see the new 61- 66 t-bird FPA head -- Zack, 10/28/2003
thanks for all the great info. sounds like your t- bird is pretty awesome, Id like to check it out more. I might try to build a custom set of headers. I just took delivery on a custom built power rack and pinion steering system. Its going to take some fab work but that should solve my steering box and idler arm clearance problems. the company said if they get enough requests they might put them into regular production so spread the word. Its going to be a while till I get it done, but if any one is interested, Ill keep you posted on the progress. Id like to have equal length headers with 1,3/4 primaries and 3- 3,1/2 inch collectors. It might take a front motor plate/ mount set up to fit them but we'll see. thanks again for all the help!!-- Zack |
| Need 390 engine tag deciphered -- Rollie H., 10/23/2003
I have located what appears to be a 390 by the engine tag. It is supposedly out of a Thunderbird.
Engine tag codes are:
390 67 8
7 B 311 A
The cast date of the block is 7A31 and date code for the intake is 7A12. The thing that seems strange to me is the 2bbl intake manifold and carburetor on this engine. I have always thought the cars had 4bbl setups back then.
The valve covers are original power by ford and are chrome. Are this originally chromed by Ford? The brackets and accessories are all there for power steering pump, AC compressor and Alternator.
There is an FMX transmission attached to it also.
Anyway I need some help determining the hp rating and originality of this engine before I decide to buy it.
Thanks in advance! |
| I love my FE, But ... -- Roessel, 10/22/2003
I love this site and all the valuable info I get from it. It just can't be any better for a Ford enthusiast, but I also need Chevy big block info now and then. I can not find a forum as helpful and knowledgeable for my Chevy as this one is for my Ford. Can anybody suggest a good Chevy site? |
| | yeah, a good place for chevys is... -- hawkrod, 10/23/2003
any local boneyard! LOL sorry, couldn't resist. just love to torture the orange people! hawkrod |
| Aftermarket Blocks -- Greg Westphall, 10/22/2003
My buddy called me last night and informed me that Dart was making new blocks and crate motors for Hondas. I cannot believe that there are more people out there who wish to dump their hard earned money on a 2.0L stroker motor than there are people with worn out FE blocks in dire need of replacement.
Look, there is just about every other part out there for an FE being offered at an affordable realistic price. Eagle makes a nice rod that won't break your pocket boot, Scat offers a cast CJ crank, Ebelbrock has a serious enough head to work with most applications but no one has been able to actually bring to the masses an affordable quality block.
Some Edelbrock execs probably thought they were taking a huge risk casting heads for a 30+ year old engine but I am sure they have rethought their position by now. In fact it is pretty obvious that they have seen the market potential because after they came out with the FE heads, they came out with several more sets of heads for older American musclecar engines.
Judging by the messages in this forum and other forums, as well as other sites on the net, there appears to be quite a bit of pent-up demand for an affordable cast iron heavy duty FE block. By affordable I do not mean $5000. I think that if someone ran the numbers they would find the level of pain for a new cast iron std. bore 427 or 428 bare block machined and ready to go would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1800-$2300. At this price level I would expect quite a few of us would run out and buy one within 12-18 months.
Lets see..... an FE drops in a Mustang, Cougar, Fairlane Torino, Galaxie, Montego, Comet, F150, Marauder, Cobra and probably a myriad of other cars that I have missed. There must be serveral million of these car when you put them together still on the road or in peoples garages getting restored. Think of the host of ancillary parts that would also be sold as a result of these new engine blocks being placed on the market. Camshafts, heads, intakes, rods, cranks, bearings etc, etc.
I am sitting with a 428CJ with 200,000+ miles and 2 rebuilds with 26,000 miles on the most recent rebuild. It is already at +.040 and you all know that this is about as far as you can go with a CJ. So far a few people have taken a stab at making FE blocks but have either had financial issues, quality issues, or a price point that borders on ridiculous.
What needs to occur is a competent, seasoned, financially stable, company needs to take this project under their wings and put together the program. The return on investment is there, it is obvious. If Dart can make money selling stroker Honda engines I think someone can make money selling FE 427, 428 Blocks or even crate motors. I reject the notion that no one would buy them because they were not original Ford blocks. There are still enough blocks out there for those people if they wish to root around for them and pay the big bucks.
I am the second owner (Dad bought new) of an original 69 Mercury Cyclone CJ and I am sure it is worth more money (not that it is for sale) and a heck of a lot more fun with a fresh, aftermaket, strong running, 428CJ, than a tired worn out oil burning hulk of a once powerful powerplant which in another 60,000 miles it will be. In fact, for those people wh wish to maintain originality they can put their original motors on the side and thrash their aftermarket ones the way they should be. How many times have I heard people in this forum, me included, saying how they don't want to push their 30+ year old motor too hard because of what it would take to replace it.
If anyone is reading this that actually has clout with anyone who could competantly undertake such a venture, I appeal to you to go to that source and strongly persuade them to look at this as a viable undertaking. If anyone feels similar or diagrees please respond in kind. |
| | I agree, a nice crate motor under 3500 is my wish -- dennie, 10/22/2003
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| | RE: Aftermarket Blocks -- Rick, 10/22/2003
I agree. I have two 1963 427 motors that I don't want to push simply because its to hard and to expensive to replace an original engine. I took my original 390 out of my torino and built one from scratch just so i can take it to the track and beat on it whenever I want to. |
| | | RE: Aftermarket Blocks -- Greg Westphall, 10/23/2003
I know what you mean Rick. I have a 390 HD service block in my basement that I might be able to take out to a 428 bore after sonic testing. It is probably going to see my engine bay sooner rather than later just because I would rather see the 390 get blown apart over my 428. I have already had my 428 lose a rod once. I was very lucky that more damage did not occur. The damage that occurred to the cylinder walls was below the ring package and a .010 overbore cleaned all of the cylinders up but that brought me to .040" overbore.
If you look in the Sumimt Racing catalog World Products offers BB Chevy Merlin III big blocks for $1700 - $2500. Full race ready assemblies go for quite a bit more and the range is quite a bit wider. There is no reason though why an FE block can't be produced and sold for a profit for just under $2,500.
Let's see, based on published prices and the proposed block lets do a quick cost calc. New iron cross bolt block $2200 , aluminum heads $1250, Roller Rocker assys $550 Crank $650, H beam Rods $550, custom zero deck Pistons $450, Cam and lifters, $200, Intake $290, Fasteners $150, Gasket set $120, Oil Pump, Oil pan, timing chain and gears, water pump, fuel pump, balancer, $650, done. A crate motor for around $7,000, and that is retail, all new parts, and bulletproof.
Compare this to a ZZ502 that retails for $7200 from Summit and things are right where they should be. An FE 427, 428 or 447 crate motor would be a very competitive package that would definitely hold its own with a ZZ 502. If Chrysler can still build and sell a 426 Hemi crate motor I would think someone out there could do the same for an FE.
Are you listening FRPP? |
| | | | sorry, but that is just a pipe dream..... -- hawkrod, 10/23/2003
i understand your position and desire but the difference lies in the fact that ford eliminated all the tooling for the FE years ago. that is the reason that ford DOES compete with chrysler and chevy head to head with the 385 series crate engines. they still had the tooling. it may seem to you a simple task to gear up for this type of thing but i assure you that for a large company to do something of this nature it will cost millions and would never return a profit. the way business works i can guarantee the only way FE blocks can be made and keep the cost reasonable is to have small time companies do it. the risk is that development times will kill more companies before the product gets to market. as genesis gets closer and closer to regular production the better off we all are. now that they have shown their blocks to be solid and have filled the vast majority of the outstanding orders i expect we will see shelved inventory within the next 12 months. hawkrod |
| | | | | Thinwall casting is not easy -- P, 10/23/2003
I believe the Genisis castings are siamesed, aren't they? If so, this sure would make it easier to produce what Ford had to do with the cool-down kiln, etc., required to minimize core shift on a big bore motor. Rather than take the easy way out with a siamesed cylinder bore, Ford apparently thought it was better to have coolant all around the cylinder, even though they did go to a cloverleaf design. Doing the thin wall casting needed for the 427 would cost anyone major bucks today, and small shops like Genisis simply don't appear to have the technology to do it, therefore they have the siamesed version, which may be just fine for anything other than winning a NASCAR endurance race.
I saw the other day another company selling FE crate engines, and I offer this only as a point of information, as I know absolutely nothing about the company (this is "reference" only)
http://www.keithcraft.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=71&cat=
P
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| | | RE: Well, heck, here's a 428 for sale . . . -- joe, 10/28/2003
Is it possible to buy a new 428 cobrajet motor, if so , where. |
| | | | ford "crate engines?" -- mike, 10/29/2003
Ford Crate Engines,Ford Mustang Engines, Cobra Kit Engines,....at "www.fordcobraengines.com" |
| Alternator only giving 6 amps -- Steve M, 10/22/2003
I finally got my 390 in my 67 galaxie and it is draining my battery. I got it tested and they said it was only putting out 6 amps. They said it should be putting out 20-30 amps. Does it sound like I have something wired wrong, or I just lucked into a bad alternator when I got the motor? There was an extra lime green wire on the harness I didnt know what to do with, so I just taped it up. |
| | RE: Alternator only giving 6 amps -- jake, 10/22/2003
Have the alternator tested off of the car. If its bad, replace it and you are done. If its good, double check the alternator wiring with your diagram and make sure your ground strap is connected from the engine to the firewall or frame. Finally if all else fails replace the voltage regulator. I don't know if anyone can test them, but they are pretty cheap. Good luck! |
| | | RE: Alternator only giving 6 amps -- steve, 10/23/2003
Thanks, I thought it would be an easy swap from a 70 to 67, but boy was I mistaken... LOL
It wasnt too bad though.. |
| | | | Sometimes, going non-stock means Unexplored Territory. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/23/2003
n/m |
| | | | RE: Alternator only giving 6 amps -- GaryXL, 10/26/2004
If I followed the threads right, you swapped complete with the '70 wiring harness and alternator? do you have the '67 alternator and harness still, if so that would be an easy swap to fix the whole problem. If not use a '67 alternator and the '67 wiring schematic to wire it, and you should be ale to eliminate the extra wire. sometimes cross year conversions just don't work. Are you still using th e'67 voltage regulator, and if so is the '70 regulator the same part number? There are differences in wiring and operation as technology got better.
If none of this workd there are always one wire alternators that only need a 10 gauge wire direct to the battery. THey are self exciting, but normally have to rev the engine up a little to get them going after a startup.
Good luck. I'v been fighting a charging probelm on my '64 Galaxie (original generator system) since I pulled it back out after almost 20 years in storage. |
| Dual quad kickdown issue -- Mike K, 10/21/2003
Issue is it doesn't have one. Anyone running dual quads w/ one? The motor is a 427 w/ twin 600's (set up backwards as if to complicate the issue). Any help is appreciated. Mike |
| | RE: Dual quad kickdown issue -- John, 10/22/2003
What kind of car are you running it in?Also which tranny C-6 or cruiso? |
| | | RE: Dual quad kickdown issue -- Mike K, 10/22/2003
Its in a 68 shelby w/a C-6 |
| | | | RE: Dual quad kickdown issue -- hawkrod, 10/23/2003
on a 67/8 shelby or mustang the kickdown is part of the gas pedal assembly and has nothing to do with the carbs or throttle linkage. it does not matter what you have on top of the engine as the linkage is on the firewall. look in the ford shop manual for a nice picture. if you changed from a 4 speed to an automatic you will need an automatic big block gas pedal assembly (small block is different, if you know the difference you can cut it apart and weld it back together but it is a little hard to explain). if your car is an original big block auto trans car it should have the parts already installed. hawkrod |
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