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 |  Engine Directory -- Richard, 10/16/2003
I guess I am too dumb, but I can't find the directory with the engine specifications anymore. Can someone give me directions? |
|  | Sorry - its down for a (long-term) redesign. [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/16/2003
n/m |
| | But, hey - there are 'borrowed' copies, all over. Try Google. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/16/2003
n/m |
|  | But all is not lost...in a very real sense. -- Gerry Proctor, 10/16/2003
If you go here; http://www.archive.org/ and enter www.fomoco.com into the site archive search you can pull up the evolution of Mr. FoMoCo's Internet presence over the years. You may have to check a couple or more archive dates to find the archived engine directory. It will be under the RESOURCES link from his index page. |
| |  | Let's hear it for cheap server space. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/16/2003
n/m |
|  | RE: Engine Directory -- Richard, 10/16/2003
Sorry to hear that. The engine information was very useful and well presented. So far I have not been sucessful finding it at archives.com Here is my vote to resurrect the engine page. |
| | | I'll second that............... -- P, 10/17/2003
........because that information was consolidated in a manner unlike anything else available on the net, and it shed a heck of a lot of credibility to this web site (not that is lacks credibility now, but that info sure did serve as a reference for a whole lot of people out there).
I asked about it a while back and got the same answer. Some of the guys here on this forum probably could quote every single spec for each of the motors listed. Here's to hoping someone will take the time to share that info again with people who are going to need it in the future.
regards, P |
| general timing question -- Dan Blaske, 10/15/2003
in regards to the intial ignition timing.....what would cause a back fire/ or miss when trying to accelerate? I am experiencing a pop----pop--pop type sound if I accelerate in gear. I am going to do some trial-n-error timing and hopefully get it right>however, it would be helpful to know if I should concentrate on advancing the timing more or retarding it. (oh, and is advancing the timing- changing from 6 degrees BTDC to 10 degrees BTDC? or is that retarding it?...I think it is advancing it,right?) Right now, with the vaccum advance disconnected, I am at 6 degrees BTDC.(motor is a 351 windsor<2 barrrell carb/2valve per cyl.) I would appreciate any info./opinions you can offer me...thanks, Dan Ps.- I have just put in a set of roller tip rockers and new push rods....could one or more of them be over tightened, in turn also adding to this problem....I was very careful and made sure each cylinder was at TDC when snugging them down(as per the instructions).....the car does have hydraulic lifters. |
| | RE: general timing question -- Gerry Proctor, 10/16/2003
Ten degrees BTDC is more advance than six degrees BTDC so you have that part right.
As to the popping... Where is it popping? Out of the intake or exhaust? And is it a stucatto of pops (a lot of rapid closely-spaced pops) or is it just a backfire pop that occurs once or twice on throttle application?
If it's out of the intake it could be that your lifters are pumping up due to having too much lash or you have a lean backfire. If it's out of the exhaust, it could be that your timing is too far advanced (you can't put too much faith in the ignition timing mark on the damper since these commonly slip with age).
None the less, solving your popping issue should be relatively easy. You can retard the timing some to see if that helps and if it doesn't, you can relax the lash on the rockers to see if that helps. If it's a lean backfire, you'll have to investigate the carburetor for pump shot or investigate a vacuum leak. |
| | | thanks--another thing -- Dan Blaske, 10/16/2003
when I am setting the timing.....the car idles smooth as silk around 25-30 degrees BTDC.....right now, according to the timing indicator that may have slipped, 6 degrees BTDC, causes the car to shake and rock, in other words a poor/rough idle quality.
(In nuetral with no load on the engine, the motor revs nicely and has great pick-up off of idle, no missing up at higher rpms, just a rougher than desired idle...this is why I thought I was good to go>>until I tried to go for a test drive and seen how bad it was when I tried to accelerate under a load>missing/backfireing)
A better description of the miss/backfire--it isn't just one or two that are spaced apart really far.....and it isn't a consistent rapid miss/backfire either. It is in between these two extremes you asked about. Because of the sound and it's changes....I'd have to say that it is a combination of miss/backfiring through both the exhaust(mostly), and a few out the carb (upon the initial attempt to accelerate). I'm not used to carbed vehicles....this repair is a favor for our father-in-law. I also notice that at the present timing(6 degrees BTDC) alot of black un burnt fuel seems to dominate the passenger side exhaust outlet(car has a true dual exhaust). I do not know what is normal for a carbed engine, in regards to the amount or coloration of the exhaust....I can say that leaded fuel stinks horribly...glad to see they don't use it anymore...accept in these older cars--YUK>>LOL!! |
| | | | RE: thanks--another thing **update** -- Dan Blaske, 10/16/2003
Just gotback from several stop/adjust distribibutor/and give a try...test drives. This is what I have found....advancing the timing until there isn't any backfiring leaves me with poor acceleration and difficulty starting if it stalls....retarding the timing gives me more backfiring....and the more I listen...it seems through the carb, not out the exhaust. I am at a loss here and don't understand what is going on. If I don't stomp the gas pedal to accelerate, and just accelerate lightly....no missing or backfiring. After a stomp/backfire run, I have to rev the engine a few times in nuetral to get it not to backfire or miss when trying to accelerate lightly again. I'm just too used to the newer fuel injected cars I guess....I really need guidance as to where to start on this....before I tore into the valve train, the car ran good....and the power was what could be expected from an engine that had two bad push rods on two seperate cylinders....now, here is where I am at..Dan |
| | | | | RE: Sounds like carburetion. -- Gerry Proctor, 10/16/2003
But I also wouldn't rule out an ignition problem like a bad condensor or points closing up or -heaven forbid- you have the plug wires on wrong (using a 302 firing order for a 351).
With the engine off, take off the air cleaner and look down the venturi. Open the throttle wide open. You should see a shot of fuel going into each venturi. This is your accelerator pump circuit. If you don't see the pump shot you know there is a problem with the accelerator pump. If you do see the shot, that doesn't mean you don't have other carb issues, just that the most obvious one isn't it.
It could still be, and what I think is, a vacuum leak. Check that all the hoses are connected to where they are supposed to be from end-to-end, that the carb base is tight. You should also go around the carb and intake gasket areas with a can of WD-40. You spray around to see if this gives you a more stable idle. Another shortcut trick to check for vacuum leaks is to close up the choke plate to see if the idle stabilizes. What this does is bring the air/fuel ratio back into balance and stabilizes the idle. It's best to do this with a vacuum gauge since you'll be able to see fluctuations on the gauge.
Hope some of this helps. |
| | | | | | seems to be I ate a bowl of stupid for breakfast!! -- Dan Blaske, 10/16/2003
Gerry, I found the dang problem....plug #2 and #7 were wrong on the new MSD cap that we put on. I haven't got the valve covers back on it yet from double checking the rockers(those were fine). I am certian that this is the reason why I was experiencing the problems that I was....thank you again for you thoughts. Dan Blaske Ps. Carb checks out and the possibility of a vaccum leak doesn't exist....no changes in rpm using your technique, plus the fact the vaccum hoses look fine. Thanks again!! Man, sometimes the silliest thing can screw up an entire project!! |
| Pushrods for 390 -- Rick, 10/15/2003
Does anybody know where to get shortened pushrods for an FE. I have a 390 that I am putting Dove roller rockers on but pushrods are to long. They have to be ball and cup style as they are adjustable. Thanks |
| | RE: Pushrods for 390 -- giacamo, 10/15/2003
paw |
| | | RE: Pushrods for 390 -- Rick, 10/19/2003
Thanks for your help |
| | | RE: Pushrods for 390 -- Rick, 10/21/2003
Thanks for all your help. |
| C3MY-6250-C Camshaft -- Richard, 10/15/2003
Does anyone have specs. on this cam? |
| | RE: C3MY-6250-C Camshaft -- giacamo, 10/16/2003
try mesuring it for lift and compairing with a cam you know the spects for. |
| | RE: C3MY-6250-C Camshaft -- McQ, 10/18/2003
Hey Richard what cam is this? I don't recall a cam with a Merc # like this. I have a couple of early '60s Ford parts books......maybe I should get off my butt and go look for that #.
C3MY.....? |
| | | RE: C3MY-6250-C Camshaft -- Richard, 10/18/2003
McQ, Don't know, bought it off of ebay from a fellow GCOA member. It's in the factory shipping tube and this is the number on it. It is an FE cam and it is nos. No grooves in the journals. |
| | | | 'C3MY-C' = '64 390 2v. So, uh...still want those specs? ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/18/2003
n/m |
| | | | | RE: 'C3MY-C' = '64 390 2v. So, uh...still want those specs? ;-) [n/m] -- Richard, 10/19/2003
Sure, Mr.F, hit me with them. Thanks. |
| | | | | | Hmm...it'll have to wait. Can't find my '64 book. [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/22/2003
n/m |
| My engine build so far -- BrentP, 10/14/2003
I have a 16yr old nephew and my wifes 18yr old brother that lives with me so decided to teach them what little I know about wrenching on cars. I am no auto mechanic but do have a bit of engine building experience so figured this would be a fun project on a mild budget. We searched for a couple of weeks and picked up a '69 torino hard top and a couple of 390 cores from a salvage yard. So far it looks like this:
'64 390 block bored .060 (salvage yard engines rust like hell)
C4AE heads cut for 2.08/1.64 valves
ARP wave lock rod bolts, main studs, head studs
Speed-Pro forged flat tops
Edelbrock cam 236/236, .571"/.571"
Edelbrock streetmaster intake
holley 750 vacuum secondary
2500rpm TCI converter
rebuilt C6 tranny
3.50 gears
petronix ignition adapter (no more points)
Mildon oil pan and valve covers
used adjustable rockers, billet rocker stands.
and steel rocker spacers from DSC
new harmonic balancer
high volume pump and h/s pump shaft
all new hardware, water pump, fuel pump
FPA tri-y headers
All componets are sitting in my living room (pissin off the wife) just waiting for block to come back from the machine shop. This will be the first performance based engine I have built so hope I did good on selecting heads/intake/cam to make some decent horsepower. Im hoping that I can squeeze 400hp out of this combination but not too worried about it being the fastest on the block. I added the arp rod, main, and head hardware simply since I didnt want to trust 40yr old bolts after spending the time and money to put this together. Any hints on what else I need to do or opinions/advise on this build? Any info is appreciated |
| | RE: My engine build so far -- giacamo, 10/15/2003
make shure you have valve springs to handel 57i lift cam you might haft to get the spring pockets cut deaper for taller springs. and make shure intake valve to piston clearance is ok..........hard seats in exaust..keeps them from eroading out .tap all oil plugs and install allen plugs i do this on all my rebilds i hate thouse littel push in plugs and have sean some pop out............. |
| | RE: My engine build so far -- giacamo, 10/15/2003
check cam spects if ok to use with adj rockers adj rockers have a higher rachieo and push the valve deeper than standerd rockers wich may be corect for cam spects.......... if using adj rockers try to find adjusters with jam nuts so thay stay set... |
| | RE: My engine build so far -- John, 10/18/2003
Brent if you can peddle the streetmaster and spring for the performer RPM intake it will be a good match for the cam you have which I believe is the performer RPM cam.I know the intakes are spendy but it is a quantum leap over the streetmaster,which was a good intake back in the seventies when it was the only game in town and you weren't lucky enough to have a factory performance intake or a left over E-brock F-427.The rest of your combo sounds to good to be stuck with a steetmaster.If an RPM intake is out of the question,check around for a 428CJ intake you should be able to find one priced near what you can get for the steetmaster.I know its cast iron but its every bit the intake as a factory PI or E-brock F-427.Good luck |
| | | RE: My engine build so far -- Rick, 10/18/2003
I agree, the performer is the way to go. I have one on my 390. Your lift should be fine. I have a lunati cam with .574 lift and adjustable rockers. You may want to go with an edelbrock 750 carb instead of the holley. A little tuning and they seam to run better than the holley. |
| | | | RE: My engine build so far -- BrentP, 10/19/2003
I have heard good things about edelbrock carbs but to be honest I dont know a damn thing about 'em. I can build and tune a holley pretty good so am going to try and stick with what I know. I was under the impression that the streetmaster intake could be made into a excellent intake. Hell I hope so as I spent quite a few hours cutting out the intake runners where they meet the heads from the 1.750" height to 2.340" to match my heads. I also carved a bit from the plenum and added a brodrix turtle on the plenum floor to help out and got a 1" spacer for the carb. I did some measuring and the intake runners are about 2.250" up until the end where they meet the heads which was a really big restriction. I had to actually weld aluminum to the gasket flanges and machine them flat to make the gaskets sealing surface wide enough after cutting them 2.340". Besides a old design what other drawbacks are there to the streetmaster? I may do some checking on the performer rpm as that was the original plan but opted for the streetmaster after hearing a few stories. Thanks for the info! |
| | | | | RE: My engine build so far -- Rick, 10/19/2003
Is the streetmaster a single or dual plane? |
| | | | | | RE: My engine build so far -- BrentP, 10/19/2003
Streetmaster is a single plane intake. I realized after my last post that the turtle and carb spacer combination is kinda stupid? I know the turtle helps direct flow in the plenum but also reduces plenum size to speed the air/fuel mixture. The carb spacer increases the plenum size slowing the air/fuel mixture. I guess I will try one at a time and see if either one makes a difference with torque/throttle response. Anyone have experience with the brodrix turtles? |
| Max Lift -- Crave, 10/14/2003
I have a cam that has .510 lift on the exhaust side that I have not installed. What kind of valve seals do I need to keep my stock retainers from hitting them. The heads are C8ae-? |
| | RE: Max Lift -- ed cougar, 10/14/2003
I'm useing a cam with a .535 exhaust, had no problems with stock setup. |
| C4AE-A 390 block -- BrentP, 10/14/2003
I picked up a 390 out of a '65 t-bird for my torino and noticed the block has the webbing on the mains as well as un-machined bosses for crossbolt mains. Is it common for the old blocks to have this? I have a '65 and a '68 block but no crossbolt bosses and lack the webbing on the mains. Any ideas? |
| | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- Tim, 10/14/2003
It seems from what I've been reading, that it's almost pot luck kind of deal with castings. 360's with 427 cast into the blocks, webbings in 390's.... what have you. But you got a good block for converting to cross bolted mains, provided you are willing to spend the money for machining, and picking up a set of the mains($)
Tim |
| | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- giacamo, 10/14/2003
Brent most blocks wer nodt webed the extra blocks douring production. that hapen to be webed cast for crosbolts side oilers ect wer mostley over runs and machined out for330;s to 428,s truck and car aps the cilinders can be any thicknes if your realey luckie take the freez plugs out and see if your cilinders are simeaze cast together you have a good one that can most likey be bored to 427 spects........... |
| | | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- BrentP, 10/14/2003
cool thanks for the info. Fords casting numbers can damn sure be confusing as they are not very consistent. The books I have list that block casting number as a 427 block. The C4AE-B crank shows to be a 427 crank but it lacks the grooves cut in the main journals. The rods are C3A3-C which also show as 427 rods casting number. Did ford just cast a ton of stuff then machine it down to fit whatever they were building that day? Odd but definatly nice as the block does have the webbing for a stronger bottom end. Always fun to hit salvage yards and find something interesting!
I am going to hit one tomorrow that says he has atleast a dozen 390's out of old '60 model cars but he dosent like fords so he has no idea what the engines really are. Maybe find something cool! |
| | | | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- giacamo, 10/15/2003
ford has cast a s load of blocks som with this some with that i have bored 2 391 truck blocks to 427 spects and both are living in failanes with pre 65 large port heads and intakes no cross bolts or side oilers.maybe i am luckie but take a good look at thouse blocks i have seen all sortes of weard combos...... |
| | | | | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- McQ, 10/18/2003
I know this thread is a few days old but I thought I'd throw in a little bit based on some knowledge I gained while working in a local engine re-building shop a few years back.
The C4AE and earlier cores were just piled up outside for scrap. During breaks I'd go out with my handy ratchet & trio of 1/2", 9/16", 7/16" sockets along with a 6" extension. It'd take just a few minutes to have a pan off. There were many C4AE 352 & 390 blocks with with the cross bolt bosses. I couldn't stand to see them get hauled away on the scrap truck so the owner would let me have them for $15 each. About what they were bringing for scrap iron at that time.
I think I still have a couple left stacked up out back in my own little treasure (one man's junk....) pile. I've never taken the time to check one of these out very closely. Someday I will. |
| | | | | | RE: C4AE-A 390 block -- Tim P., 01/04/2004
IM Late On This Responce The C4AE-A IN My Book Says Its A 427 1964 Top Oiler. Tim. |
| | | | | | | RE:your book... -- McQ, 01/04/2004
as with a lot of the publications available to us......don't take them your FE gospel. I've seen the same published information regarding the C4AE-A block. There was/is a top-oiler 427 with this casting but there also are numerous '64 352/390 blocks with the same casting. I've got two of them laying in the dirt out in my little Ford boneyard as this is typed. Okay, they're on old pallets, covered with some kind of tarp/wheels/tires. But the point is, they're nothing very special right now. I guarantee you they're NOT 427 Ford blocks. |
| | | | | | | | RE:your book... -- Tim P., 01/04/2004
Ok Thanks For Insite. Tim. |
| | | | | | | | RE:your book... -- John Saxon, 01/05/2004
Hey Mike,I agree totally I've got some of those blocks too.1 352 1 390 and the 27 in the Starliner,but only the motor in the Starliner is a 427 block with undrilled lifter oil galley and the rear oil relief valve.But they all have C4AE-A casting # and the bosses for the cross bolt mains,also only the 427 block has the HP cast into it.One other interesting thing is on the 352 and 390 and all other non 427 C4AE-A blocks I've seen on the #2 main bulkhead one of the webbing is missing,instead of the the 3 ribs like on most extra web blocks there are only 2 can't remember if it is right or left side though. |
| | | | | | | | | RE:your book... -- Tim P., 01/08/2004
I Really Love Ford However Why Does Ford Pull This CRAP On There Loyal Followers This Is Good Buiz For Ford To See This Old Stuff Up And On The Road Going Strong Dont You Think? |
| | | | | | | | | | RE:your book... -- Tim P., 01/08/2004
n/m |
| fixing a 410!? -- Razor, 10/14/2003
I was thinking about fixing my 410cid into something a bit more spicier(new cams, lifters, springs, valves, carb etc.) or atleast restoring the old horses back. Now, I would be very thankfull for some ideas of what to throw in!
Money would not be an issue as long as it is worth it ...well, atleast allmost. =]
THNX! |
| | RE: fixing a 410!? -- giacamo, 10/14/2003
comp cames 265 or 268 with springs to mach . melling hi vol oil pump will wake up a 410' |
| | RE: fixing a 410!? -- giacamo, 10/16/2003
hard seats in exaust valves i feal this to be a must......... |
| 427 -- galaxiefreak64, 10/13/2003
ok my dad got 3 427 blocks and i want one, but he is gonna but a stock cam in it and a 4 berral, and a automatic w/stall converter.
is this too much power for a 16 year old? |
| | Hell, yes -- Lou, 10/14/2003
As a appraiser I see what 16 year olds do with V8 mustangs. A 427 even with a mild cam will put out a lot more power, put that in a 3800 pound car, with a new driver and there is a good chance that your friends will be putting flowers by the side of a local road. |
| | | RE: Hell, yes -- galaxiefreak64, 10/14/2003
what about a 390 w/ a hi po cam
|
| | | | How about a 352, with a 4 barrell? -- Lou, 10/14/2003
n/m
|
| | | | | RE: How about a 352, with a 4 barrell? -- galaxiefreak64, 10/14/2003
sorry my car is a g code and i dont waht to go lower than 390
|
| | | | | | RE: How about a 352, with a 4 barrell? -- galaxiefreak64, 10/14/2003
whatt should be my sep up, i gaonna put a holly carb, and pair of long cast headers on it, what else?? |
| | | | | I'm not trying to rain on your parade but, -- Lou, 10/14/2003
7 out of 10 male drivers between 16 and 18 that own a performance car will have a accident. 95% will be caused by excessive speed, 65% will be on a wet road. 83% will put themself and/or someone in the hospital. |
| | | | | | RE: I'm not trying to rain on your parade but, -- galaxiefreak64, 10/14/2003
well mines alll for show, (not a show car) and for cruzing |
| | | | | | | I hope so, good luck, the 64 Galaxie is one of my -- Lou, 10/14/2003
all time favorite Fords. |
| | | RE: Hell, yes -- Steve, 10/15/2003
Hey lou, I have a 16 year old that wants to drive my 67 galaxie, he just has his temps right now. I told him there was only one time he might be able to drive it and that is on his prom night. Is there anyway you can email me any statistics on young drivers that I can show him? Anything will do, even if it is for the 4 cylinder cars...
Thanks. |
| | | | I'm not Lou, but try these... -- Mr F, 10/15/2003
|
| | Re: 427 -- giacamo, 10/14/2003
nope |
| | Re: 427 -- giacamo, 10/14/2003
give them hell , wen i was 16 i'd give my left one for a 427............. |
| | | Re: 427 -- Martin Micheelsen, 10/15/2003
If I was in your place I would install a mild 390 that looked like a 427 and save the 427 block for when I had more experience both with driving and building engines. A 64 Galaxie is a great car. I would improve it further with a set of disk brakes transferred from a mid 70ies LTD.
The reason we "older" folks are concerned for your life and safety is that we know how we drove at your age - I still can't believe I survived my youth and has even later in life had several near-death experiences in my FE Cougar.
I think the two most dangerous things for young people and people in general is getting distracted by other passengers and driving while drunk. Either of those two tend to bring about WAY excessive speeds - with the resulting bad statistics.
Good luck and enjoy your 64. |
| | | | This is his MOTHER! -- 390grl, 10/16/2003
This is galaxiefreak64 's mother! I will say one thing about this. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL HE IS GETTING A 427 (not as long as he lives under my roof). Son, you may get really mad at me after this, but you are my only son....I went through 27 hr. of hard labor bringing you into this world. I am terrified in knowing that you are fixing to get behind the will and drive. My life without you would be NOTHING. I would not want kneel down and kiss your headstone once we bury you because of a tragic car accident. If you learn nothing from the advice you are receiving from this forum, get this....These men speak from experience and many years of knowledge. Look at the statistics that were mentioned....I don't want you, or anyone else, to be apart of that number. As I told you last night, I am going to print those statistics, tape them to your dash with the big bold letters that say..."SON, I LOVE YOU...MOMMY", in hopes that you think before you do anything that could harm you or anyone else. |
| | | | | You tell him, ma'am. Gotta be firm, sometimes. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/22/2003
n/m |
| | Re: 427 -- giacamo, 10/15/2003
if your dad has 3 427 blocks you must be from a family that has raced them if you bild please be carful trust me a hot fe aney size will get you in troubel.........but dam thear fun. |
| | | RE: Re: 427 -- galaxiefreak64, 10/15/2003
hey all of you, now i have a nother problem, i brought a tranny for my car (its a c6) and the yoke is i silghty wider than the stock one and wont fit on my drive shaft. do i need to get one made, or what else can i do. only 15 so my budget is kinda tight, but i have cool parents that will spend some money if i just find out how to spend it. well considering that i might have to have one made can you all give me some sources |
| | | | RE: Re: 427 -- giacamo, 10/16/2003
thay make u joints that will work.or go junk yarding and find a yok thats right.... |
| | | | | Thank you Mr F, When you look at the -- Lou, 10/16/2003
statistics remember that if you only look at males 16 to 18 who own a performance car the factor is times 4. Thats why the insurance is so high on HiPo cars for young people. |
| | | | | | a 427 might be too much -- darren, 10/17/2003
galaxiefreak64, I am a young owner, I turned 19 in august. I have a '65 mustang coupe with a HO 302. I would honestly say that if I had something with a 427, I would be a statistic. There are plenty of ways to get a lot of horse power out of a small block... try a 32-valve 4.6L or any 5.0L. There are tons of aftermarket parts for them, and there is tons of potential for power... my daily driver puts out 310hp to the rear tires, but I get 25 mpg. you will never get that in a 427. good luck on whatever you pursue though.
darren |
| | Re: 427 -- darren, 10/17/2003
one other thing to consider with that much power is driving in the rain, if it will be a daily driver, RWD+HP=no traction. that can be a big problem, it is with my pony
darren |
| rocker broken -- tom, 10/13/2003
has any one had just one in the middle break and turn black with a hyd. cam
 |
| | RE: rocker broken -- tom, 10/13/2003
there dove roller rockers |
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