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 |  428SCJ shortblock -- Jeff H., 09/11/2005
The 428SCJ engine that I pulled out of my 69 mach has been sitting on a stand in my Uncle's shop for several years now. For my resto I have collected several engine parts (including NOS 428CJ block) and was planning on parting out this engine (not orignal to car) and selling all of the parts. So my father calls me last night saying that a friend of his has been asking him if I will sell him some of my 428 parts for a shortblock for his '67 eleanor project. I decided that if he agreed to a fair market value price I would tear this motor down to short block and sell to him. I would appreciate it if you guys could help me establish this asking price I have listed all of the details below.
428CJ block fresh .030 over (partial VIN indicates it came from '69 fairlane) with oiling mods, C scatch rear face, less than 2,000 miles since block was overbored
428SCJ (IUA) Crankshaft fresh re-cut .010/.010
428SCJ Lemans rods
Fresh .030 over 428CJ flat top pistons
stock 428CJ/390GT cam
SCJ hatchet c'weight
428SCJ/427 balancer
SCJ 4 speed flywheel
Entire rotating assy balanced
Stock 428CJ pan
428CJ windage tray
Stock Timing gears/chain |
 | Difference between big and small blocks -- Tristan, 09/11/2005
What is the difference between a small and a big block engine please? Is it just simply a case of capacity or are there mechanical differences? |
|  | RE: Difference between big and small blocks -- Jeff H., 09/11/2005
They are completely different designs there are no major components that are shared between Ford big and small blocks. Small blocks have smaller cylinder bores and shorter strokes than big blocks. Big blocks have more torque (i.e. longer strokes) but cannot rev as high as small blocks. The overall dimensions and weights of small blocks is less than that of big blocks. |
| | | That's superficial, Jeff, and can be proven wrong. -- Gerry Proctor, 09/13/2005
An FE 332, which is a member of the bigblock family, has none of those attributes when compared to a 351W -a member of the smallblock family.
There is also no logical correlation between displacement and redline. Many smallblocks are all done at 4,500 and many bigblocks are just starting to come to life at this rpm. This is a function of purpose rather than casting molds.
The distinction between what is a smallblock and what is a bigblock is very arbitrary at best since the factories never made these classifications. These definitions were made in aftermarket nomenclature and in bench racing.
Some examples are quite obvious. A Ford 302 being a smallblock and a 460 being a bigblock. But how do you define a 326 Pontiac as compared to a 455 Pontiac? Both are idential extenally and weigh the same. Is a 400 Chevy a bigblock and a 396 a smallblock? And if you bore and stroke a 351W out to 427, did you change it to a bigblock?
It's always best to refer to engine families rather than the vague notion of arbitrary classification rooted in the mind.
You are right in many regards, but not in absolutes. |
| | | | It all comes down to bore spacing -- Bill Conley, 09/14/2005
The fundamental number for any engine family is the spacing between cylinder bores. You'll see members of the same engine family with different bores and strokes (390,427,428) and even different deck heights (302, 351W), but you'll never see memebers of the same engine family with different bore spacing.
It seems the big block/ small block nomenclature originated with Chevys. Our Fords are a bit more murky. The FE bore spacing makes it more of a "medium block", with bore spacing in between the Windsor engines and the "385" series Lima engines.
JMO, but I did work at Ford as an engine engineer.
-Bill |
| | | |  | theory of relativity? -- John, 09/14/2005
I thought it meant that a small block was smaller than a big block and a big block was bigger than a small block. And since there are different families of big blocks for example, the "smaller" and "bigger" referred to significant size diferences. All relative you see. Ah heck.....I dont' really know, but I know them apart when I see them. |
| | | | RE: That's superficial, Jeff, and can be proven wrong. -- Jeff H., 09/17/2005
Hey Gerry....Relax. I was trying to give a general overview to Tristan of the overall differences between a big-block and small block ford. Any general statement can be proven wrong by specific examples that do not satisfy the general rules. The thing that really pisses me off is that if you would re-read my post no-where did I state that displacement was a factor. I simply stated the longer stroke motors do not rev as easily (i.e less stress) as short stroke motors. Hope you felt better after picking apart my post trying to help young Tristan. BTW I have lump of goal can I stick it up your *ss? My wife needs a new diamond for her ring... |
| | | |  | Let's keep the arguments friendly, Ok? Just 'splain. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 09/18/2005
n/m |
| | | | | Gerry.... -- Jeff H., 09/20/2005
...I apologize for my very obnoxious response to your post. I had one of those rare "EXTREMELY" bad days and I took offense to the tone of your post and wanted to vent. Not trying to make excuses 'cause there is no excuss for the way I acted but I just wanted you to know that I am really not an ass and I regretted sending my response almost immediately after sending it. |
| 68 390GT alternator stator color ? -- Mark, 09/09/2005
Hello, Can someone tell me a paint to use for my 1968 390GT Mustang's alternator (stator, field coil) ? I believe they were red. I need to know what color of red and brand of paint that would look original. Thank you, Mark |
| | RE: 68 390GT alternator stator color ? -- raycfe, 09/09/2005
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| 390 -- dick luppold, 09/08/2005
please help to settle a dispute. did ford ever make a 390 with two four barrel carbs? thanks dick |
| | Re: 390 -- raycfe, 09/08/2005
Just my 2 cents but, The 8V (2 4bb) was an over the counter item, not factory installed. |
| | Was 390 8v ever RPO for a Ford/US production car? Nope. [n/m] -- Mr F, 09/08/2005
n/m |
| power steering lines -- BOB, 09/08/2005
help-am putting 67- 390 mustang back together do the power steering lines go over or under the cross frame? |
| starter problems -- Rex Budde, 09/08/2005
I have a 67 mustang with a 390 and fordpowertrain headers. After the car is hot, the car won't restart. Starter does absolutley nothing. I bumped the starter at the solinoid and then it started. I was told that I need to put a heat shield on the starter that it is getting to hot and not working. The clearance between the headers and the NAPA starter is very tight. |
| T10 Speedometer Problem -- Dunk Campbell, 09/07/2005
We are having a problem with a Borg Warner H1 T10 4 speed transmission. We were told that it was from a 1966 Mustang.
We have installed it in a 1966 Mustang coupe, that formerly had a 3 speed installed. The transmission fits and operates fine, but ...
We have no speedometer operation.
We had installed a new speedometer cable and driven gear, and removed it from the transmission. The speedometer needle deflects when we spin the driven gear on the new cable. We can see the internal speedometer drive gear, and it is turning when the transmission is in gear. We suspect that the problem is that the driven gear is not meshing with the internal speedometer drive gear. The driven gear is about as large as possible to still fit into the transmission, so we think the drive gear is undersized.
We removed the internal drive gear, and find it is white nylon, 6 tooth, with an ID of approximately 1.25", and an OD of approximately 1.925".
We have found replacement T10 four speed drive gears in various Mustang parts house catalogs, but they all have an ID of 1 - 3/8", which leads us to believe that this might be a Falcon Borg Warner T10 transmission.
Anyone have any ideas where we can locate a correct speedometer drive/driven gear combination for this transmission? |
| falcon q? -- Zach, 09/06/2005
ive got a 65 falcon. anyone know where i can find a repair manual for it? |
| | | I think that one's rather pricey. $35-40 is bottom dollar. [n/m] -- Mr F, 09/07/2005
n/m |
| heads on my 390 -- Dusty, 09/06/2005
well, here's my problem. i've almost got my rebuilt 390 put back together. the headers is all that is left but the hooker supercomp headers that i bought for it don't fit. they are the right ones for a 390 mustang. the bolt holes on the outside don't line up and neither do the ports. the headers seem to be just slightly raised up so the ports don't match. i always thought that they were 428cj heads because of a book but never checked the casting numbers untill now. it says C8AE H which another book i have says its for a 68 std. 360,390,428, with air with a 14bolt pattern. my question is what do i do about my headers? do i have to pray that jegs will take them back and if so what size do i get? any advice about anything is appreciated. thanks |
| 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Kent, 09/05/2005
Hi all:
My toploader is in need of rebuild ... so I'm thinking of putting in a 5 or 6-speed for improved highway performance, etc. Anyone have experience in putting one in a big block Mustang? Recommendations and "gotcha's" to avoid much appreciated.
Thanks! |
| | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Chuck, 09/05/2005
tko 500 or 600 only way to go, the 3550 is hard to get parts for now and the t56 you have to pay big $ for to get the higher torq. version. You can get 2 different final drive ratios. 1st gear is lower in a 5 spd tremec than a top loader so you can start with bigger tires or higher gears |
| | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Tony P., 09/06/2005
The above post mentioned a good point. Torque! Watch out, you get what you pay for. The lighter duty tranny might work just fine for normal operation, but if you launch it hard and it hooks up, the torque from the mighty FE428 will leave the tranny's guts on the ground. Just speaking from experience. |
| | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Kent, 09/06/2005
Thanks guys. Who sells the TKO 500/600 kits for my Mustang? |
| | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Dano, 09/06/2005
Dark Horse Performance sells some kits. |
| | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Kent, 09/06/2005
Could anyone who has actually swapped out a 4-speed in a 69 or 70 Mustang for a new 5-speed tell me if it's a difficult operation or not? Are the kits out there fairly complete, i.e. provide everything you need?
Thanks
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| | | | | Gear Vendors Overdrive -- Dano, 09/08/2005
It may be cheaper for you to try out one of the Gear Vendors overdrive units, they make them for toploader Mustangs, unfortunatly, I don't think anyone here has any experience with this unit. But it couldn't hurt to check it out. The big blocks fit so tight in Mustangs, changing things like clutch and shifter linkages really doesn't leave much room for error on th aftermarket 5 speed kits. |
| | | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Ross, 09/08/2005
I am going through this swap now. Its not tough, but its not a bolt in
Dark Horse has all you need to make it almost bolt in.
I have decided to do some other upgrades at the same time, so its probably going to be an all-winter project, but the swap itslef, could be almost a weekend job |
| | | | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Cobra428, 09/13/2005
I have a 428CJ in a Cobra kit car. I converted from a top-loader to a Tremec 5 speed. The input shaft has to be cut down on the Tremec (Dark Horse can do this for you) or you have to add an adapter plate. Then the transmission mount has to be moved up and back, or you can fabricate an adapter. Dark Horse may have a different cross member or adapter. The shifter was in a different location than my top loader. There are 2 different 1st gear ratios and 2 different OD ratios. With all the torque of the 428, I'd use the higher first gear. OD depends on the car and how you use it. If it has a radical cam, then I would go with the .83 OD. If you want an easy cruising gear, then use the .68 OD. I have the .83 gear and I love it. |
| | | | | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Dave, 10/06/2005
been there done that,got the T-Shirt.....Call McLeod industries and ask for "RED" I forget the P/N but they make at top loader to T-5 adapter that has the correct front bearing retainer I.D./O.D. to fit, all you have to do is drill the threaded holes to pass thru size. Also have McLeod build you a 11.5" reverse hub 26 spline disc, not anymore expensive then a 10 spline, and you are not taking the tranny apart. Order up a crossmember from Ron Morris Performance and bolt it in! There are two choices for the driveshaft fit....shorten the shaft or get a Bronco/Truck yoke for the 9 inch rear(I used the yoke) I installed this set-up in my 69 CJ XR-7......3.25 gears 26" dia tires .64 O/D ratio yields....70 mph=1800 rpm 2500 rpm=100 mph. I used the TREMEC 600 purchase it from Mustang Racing Technologies ask for Scott. he flat rated shipping for me and was not marking up the tranny. I spoke to a few places that had""KITS" and offered shortened input shafts and some other fluff and the conversion will be 700-1000 bucks more. The adapter is FINE if you want send me an e-mail and I can fwd some pics of my install. I installed Pwr R&P after the last CJ smoked and I have about 2K miles on the car w/5spd and pwr rack...IT ROCKS! |
| | | | | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- Dave, 10/06/2005
Oh and the shifter will be centered in the tunnel you will have to open the factory shift plate in a small crescent shape and the tower will be almost perfect. There are about 50 Hurst shifter handles you can choose and they bolt right up to the 600 stub. I welded a factory handle to a small adapter drilled 2 holes and found a 70's NOS aftermarket leather wrapped shift handle with the Cougar emblem and it looks GREAT. used the factory Z bar mechanical linkage with the factory three finger pressure plate and clutch pedal effort is equal to my Dads Camry! |
| | | | | RE: 5-speed conversion for 69 Mach 1 428CJ ?? -- John, 09/13/2005
I use a Richmond Gear 5-speed and am very happy with it.....I use a 3.07 diff. First gear might benefit from a lower gear (an option when you order). Good to 600hp I hear and fairly cheap....bought mine through Summitt. BUT.....you'll probably be on your own to figure out how to handle the installation in the Mustang....shifting linkages, etc. Maybe call Richmond and ask them? |
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