Skip Navigation Links.
| Moving Engine Back -- William, 11/19/2003
I have a 67 mustang fastback with a 390. I am concidering trying to move the engine back to help with the weight distribution. From only the point of view of positioning the engine rearward are there any easy ways to do this? I have heard that a BBC can be moved more rear wards by using SBC motor mounts and I am wondering if anyone knew about any tricks that can be used on the FE. |
| | RE: Moving Engine Back -- giacamo, 11/19/2003
In a 67 mustang moving the moter back may be a task i,d spend my time tubbing the rear..... |
| | | RE: Moving Engine Back -- William, 11/19/2003
Tubbing is in the works (mini tubbing actually). My car will see more road course action than strip action. I am aware that moving the motor will be a major task. I am investigating this from two points of view. First w/o fire wall surgery and Second w/ firewall sergery. Any experience that you guys can share about motor mounts and such would be great. |
| | RE: Moving Engine Back -- Charlie, 11/20/2003
Tell us more, have you done any thing to the suspension, shock towers, pb booster there or not? Sounds interesting I've done a few BB 67 Fastbacks. Charlie |
| | | RE: Moving Engine Back -- William, 11/21/2003
The frame is stock at this poing. I have installed weld in subframe connectors. And my mini tubbing in the rear will not relocate the frame rails, just maximize the space available between the inner fender and the frame rail. I am running TCP coil overs in the rear The shock towers are still there. I am running TCP coil overs in the front and a TCP power rack and pinion. I am also concidering running a ROD 6-Speed w/ a hydraulic clutch and I am putting together an EFI with an old Edelbrock intake and concidering using the Accel Gen VI computer.
I have figured out the clutch and the throttle issues with moving the engine back. I know I will need a new driveshaft but that is a given if I go with the new trans so I need to figure out how and how much to move the engine back.....so I can do the modifications now instead of later which will require additional rework.
I am interested in any knowledge you can pass my way. |
| | RE: tubbing -- ricky, 10/24/2004
i would like to know about tubbing a 95gt convertible |
| | | RE: tubbing -- 390ranger, 10/26/2004
if you are willing to cut it up in the back just move the firewall and used a blockplate with the mid plate it will help with transfering horsepower to the wheels. the only thing is that you need to run a rubber trany mount or you will wipe out the rear seal and tail shaft. motor plates will also make headr install easier. i moved the fire wall 11 inches back and the pedals to the side on my 1983 ford ranger 2wd, its lots of work but the truck just hooks and goes. or look at just the engine plates without cutting the fire wall. |
| Identify this crank please -- Anthony, 11/18/2003
C4AEB on 1st journal, 6 on 2nd, 10 on 3rd. Thanks, Anthony |
| | RE: Identify this crank please -- Geoff McNew, 11/18/2003
If Christ's book is correct, it's a cast '64 427. |
| | RE: Identify this crank please -- giacamo, 11/19/2003
1964 427 industial cast 390 auto zero balance.....standerd crank.. |
| | Supposed to be a 390 -- Anthony, 11/20/2003
Interesting how this crank is for a 427, but my engine is supposed to be a 390. I should have tried to measure the bore while I had the pan down, but it probably wouldn't be that accurate anyway with the rods in the way. Any other ways to find out? |
| | | it is a 390 crank n/m -- Barry B, 11/20/2003
n/m |
| | | RE: Supposed to be a 390 -- giacamo, 11/20/2003
427 cranks interchange with 390,s i.v used 390 cranks in a pinch in 427,s this crank you have is fine it,s problie a over run from the industeral 427 engines used in compresores back then thats wy it,s cast type not forged as found in hp aps.........i feal the crank you have is as good as any 390 crank but has 427 ref numbers wich don,t realy mean much.......... |
| | | | guys, it really is a 390 crank -- Barry B, 11/20/2003
I don't know what books you guys are looking up in but C4AE-B is what you will find on 390 cranks in '64 Galaxies, I've pulled three of 'em so far. |
| | | | RE:forged? -- McQ, 11/20/2003
Wait a minute! I've re-read what you've posted a number of times regarding Anthony's crank. You said "not forged as found in hp aps". You're not saying that a '64 427 came with a forged steel crankshaft are you? I don't believe that's the case.
From what I've seen and sort-o-remember about the automotive HP 427 of 1964, the crankshaft came CAST from FoMoCo with fully grooved main journals.
The forged/cross-drilled 427 crank was introduced in 1965 with the sideoiler.
I think. |
| | | | | RE:forged? ?? -- giacamo, 11/21/2003
all 427,s i,v sean had forged cranks in them i,v sean 390, cast in some but thay wer instaled becouse no decent forged cranks could be found.maybe some earlie ones had cast.?if thay did, i feal is not a serious draw back the cast crank is tuffer then most think...... |
| | | | | It is a cast iron 390/427 crank. -- Royce Peterson, 11/21/2003
Both used the same crank in 1964 - 65 and again in 1968. It is a normal, common 3.78" crank. Worth about $75 these days if usable.
Royce |
| | | | | | RE: It is a cast iron 390/427 crank. -- Geoff McNew, 11/22/2003
Isn't that what Christ's book says? |
| | | | | | | RE:Steve Christ's book.. -- McQ, 11/22/2003
is a great book! I can remember how thrilled I was to get it back in the mid '80s. It was my FE bible! And I still refer to it quite often. But there are a few minor errors and I think this may be one Geoff.
I can affirm exactly what Royce has stated by this:
I tore down two FE's within a month. One was a '64 standard -Z- code 300 horse 390-4V. It had a C4AE crank. The other FE was a stock/standard, virgin '64 427 - 425 horse dual quad. It too had a C4AE cast crank like the 390. The only difference was that it had fully grooved main bearing journals.
Again there were no '64/earlier forged steel 427 crankshafts. The first were mid year '65 carrying a C5AE # along with a $ sign. Sideoiler cranks that are beautiful chunks of steel. |
| Block end corks - inadequate compression -- Geoff McNew, 11/18/2003
Reinstalled my Performer RPM intake last night and I seem to have the reverse problem that most FE's can have with the cork gaskets that seal the block to intake at either end - I'm not getting enough compression, and the cork squirms...I know it's gonna blow out with any crankcase pressure at all.
The block has never been decked and the heads are new Edelbrocks. The head-to-intake is flush at the top so the valve covers can seal perfectly, so I dunno about shaving the intake manifold faces to drop the intake, since it'd just create a stagger at the valve cover surface.
The corks in both Felpro & Victor Renz sets I tried look to be a skinny 3/16"? If I cut some gaskets out of 0.200" sheet cork, that would solve it, or is that getting too thick?
Has anyone else had this problem / cure? |
| | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- giacamo, 11/18/2003
I install the end gaskets with permatex super blue. let them set up over night super blue the tops the next day and install the intake.thay stay put and dont leak. |
| | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- mikee likee, 11/19/2003
I do not use the end gaskets at all. I use rtv on each end and have never had one leak. The ford shop manual also say's this is the prefered method. |
| | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- Ross, 11/19/2003
I use yellow weatherstrip on the block and bottom of the gasket. Let both dry then stick glue to glue. It wont move after that.
When you install the intake, put a light coat of silicone to lube as you tighten so the gasket wont even try to move, as well as the benefit of sealing up the top.
I do them ALL that way, to include school busses and other uglies that you dont want to hang over the fender twice |
| | | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- Geoff McNew, 11/20/2003
..school buses? I'll bet you trained my driver...Kamakazi Calvin? |
| | | | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- Ross, 11/20/2003
Its funny, after I typed that, I realized I havent seen an FE powered school buss in a LONG time, but the pain is still there!
Seriously though, it makes a really solid setup and it much faster than using silicone and no gasket. Basically you only wait for the yellow death to dry and thats less than 5 minutes, then you assemble. |
| | | | | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- mikee likee, 11/20/2003
I was refering to an engine on the stand. Which allows for more drying time. I've never been a fan of jackhammering yellow death off. But it does have it's good uses. |
| | | | | | RE: Block end corks - inadequate compression -- Ross, 11/20/2003
I can understand your pain, try a 3-M Roloc disk on an angle grinder, surfaces will be cleaner than scraping, and you'll never be afraid of yellow death again :) |
| `966 fairlane gt 390 motor -- Robert Giles, 11/16/2003
I am looking for a 390 motor for a 66 fairlane gt. It is a true gt that someone along the way replaced the 390 with a 351. I would like to put the original engine back in it.Thanks |
| 427 cast iron headers -- Jim Thomas, 11/15/2003
I need a decent set of long or short Ford FE cast iron headers at a fair price. Who out there can help me? Will these cast iron headers work with power steering? I also need an OEM aluminum single 4 barrel intake manifold and Holley carb. The carb doesn't need to be the correct number, it just needs to be rebuildable and work with stock linkage in a 63 1/2 Galaxie XL I am trying to put together for my dad. What do Ineed to do with the original automatic (cruise-o-matic) to beef it up a little? My dad is elderly and I prefer to keep the automatic in it for now while he can still drive some. Thanks to anyone who can help me. Please email me at jthomas427@sbcglobal.net |
| | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- John, 11/15/2003
Jim, long cast iron manifolds will not work with power steering without modifying the power cylinder frame attachment bracket the end of the cylinder interferes on the driver side collector where it makes the curve to the back.Possibly some sort of extended bracket would drop the cylinder enough to clear similar to the drop brackets required on most early mustang headers with power steering.That is one reason why ford never offered those manifolds with power steering.The shorties on the other hand were installed on police cars as well hi-po cars and I believe police cars could be had with power steering. |
| | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Travis Miller, 11/16/2003
Use the shorty cast iron headers. Through the mufflers you will not be able to tell the difference over the long ones. The shortys are cheaper and also lighter in weight. A good muffler shop can make exhaust that fits.
The cast iron cruiso is a strong tranny. Its only weak point is putting it in gear with the engine idled too high. That is what can break the case at the main internal support brace. A good tranny rebuild is all thats needed. If a shop can rebuild an FMX from a Mustang, they can build the cast iron Cruiso. They are very similar.
|
| | | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Jim Thomas, 11/16/2003
Travis, Thanks for the info on the headers and transmission. If I can't come up with cast iron headers is there a set of aftermarket steel headers that would fit a 1963 1/2 Galaxie 500 XL with power steering and automatic transmission (XL w/ floor shifter)? Thanks, Jim jthomas427@sbcglobal.net |
| | | | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- John, 11/16/2003
Jim, Crites makes headers for the early galaxies with FE and I believe FPA does also whether or not they work with auto and power steering I don't know. |
| | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Jim Thomas, 11/16/2003
John, Thanks for the information. Back in 1981/2/3 I had an original R code 63 1/2 4 speed car that had 63,000 original miles. It had power steering on it, but it must have been modified for it. It was a super car that I didn't have to do anything to. Had the long cast headers, generator with large pulley, even the carbs and air cleaner were original. I only paid $380 for the car. It had been in the garage since 1970. I'd like a dozen more just like it for that price. I'd still go for either long or short cast headers for my current car, even having to make the PS cylinder bracket modification. Thanks for your help. Jim |
| | | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Allen, 06/28/2005
Does anyone now of a company in jacksonville,FL that ceramic coats headers? |
| | | | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Jim Thomas, 06/29/2005
Wish I could help but I know of no one. Jim thecobaguy |
| | | | | | RE: 427 cast iron headers -- Glenn, 07/02/2005
The cast iron shorty's are selling for over $600 on ebay I've seen recently. Three sets all sold within a few days of each other. The 427 cast headers close or more sometimes in price. Getting expensive they are lol. G. |
| 361 ft -- wfo ford, 11/14/2003
any thing good in a 1968 361 truck engine? |
| | RE: 361 ft -- giacamo, 11/16/2003
May be the block, the 361 is a good truck engin, the heads if truck type, are not preformance bound, but are almost bullit proof...... |
| | RE: 361 ft -- mike scott, 11/16/2003
The oil pan and pick up are a great larger pan for the FE engines. Those FT pans are a good alternative to spending $200-$300 for an after market pan. |
| | | RE:at the core -- McQ, 11/16/2003
of a 361 or 391FT is a forged steel crankshaft. It does require modification to work for an FE build-up. But if it's durability at higher RPMs you're looking for the FT crank is a reasonable alternative to a $ C5A, C6A, 427 froged steel crank.
If you look below at those few pics I posted last week of Dick Flynn's 370" SOHC you'll see a Bonneville proven FE(217 mph, 8,000 R.P.M.) that runs ..... none other than what started out as a junk yard FT361" crank.
Flynn is currently considering pulling a 391FT crank from a core to start yet another incarnation of the existing 370".
A forged steel FT crank easily machined to a FE crankshaft....it's worth a few bucks. |
| | | | RE:at the core -- Geoff McNew, 11/17/2003
Isn't the FT the future and a seemingly endless garden to pick from as old FE's wear out and disappear....it's got a better forged steel crank...just shorten the flange to FE length, turn down the snout, bush the distributor bore if necessary, and add all your favorite HP goodies to its reinforced center main web block. Aren't they very often thick enough for 428 bores too? I think if I ever lunch my 428-SCJ std bore service block, a 391 could be an even better place to start. agree? |
| | | | | RE:exactly Geoff -- McQ, 11/17/2003
I agree completely! That's why I picked up a C6ME 391 core block a few years ago at a very reasonable price. As you said, totally reinforced main webbing that is allowing for easy conversion to 427 cross-bolt main caps; thick cylinder walls(there's even the little bitty '428' visable with good light cast in the middle expansion plug hole) that has allowed me to overbore .030 past standard 428 and still leave a lot of wall. And the distributor bushing is still available over the Ford parts counter. It was last year anyway when I decided to pick up one more before they're obsolete.
I "think" many of the 361 blocks have the same benefits of the 391. |
| | | | | | RE:exactly Geoff -- Geoff McNew, 11/17/2003
Sounds cool! I'm currently running a std. bore 428-CJ/SCJ service block made in '74. It had the "428" inside the water jacket too and reinforced center mains. Had no p/n, but used D2TE truck caps. Freaked Shoe out b/c he had thought FE production ended at the DIF foundry years ealier, but mine's a "DIF". I've got a 1UA SCJ crank & LeMans rods, but if I ever rebuilt it, I'm leaning towards a truck forging and some new H-beams...unless I stroke it. ...which raises the question:
Who/where's the best source of info on stroking a 428, if you know? |
| | | | | | | don,t forget -- giacamo, 11/17/2003
Don,t forget about triming crank flange and maching a bushing for standerd trany or tork converter hub.........a zero ballanse flywheel can be converted to work for car aps....... |
| | | | | | | | RE: 361 ft -- poorfordman, 11/17/2003
I've got a book that says all 428 service blocks sold after 74 were bored out 391 ft truck blocks. |
| | | | | | | | | while it may be true... -- hawkrod, 11/19/2003
not all 391 were cast with the thicker bores. so you have to check each one. most were not the thicker style. hawkrod |
| | | | | | | | | | RE: while it may be true... -- Geoff McNew, 11/20/2003
if it has "428" cast inside the water jacket as mine does (look down the water slot at the rear of the deck) it's good for a 428 bore. |
| | | | | | | | | | | RE: while it may be true... -- hawkrod, 11/20/2003
you are right, sort of.... the blocks with the 428 should bore to a 4.13 but be sure to get it sonic checked as the later industrial blocks seem to have significant core shift and a straight bore job may allow a lot of water into the cylinder! the earlier industrial blocks seem to be much better than the later ones. hawkrod |
| | | | | | | | | | | 428 in the water jackets is a joke -- Royce Peterson, 11/28/2003
I recently looked at a 428 from a Q code Galaxie that had the 428 in the water jacket, A cast into the rear bulkhead and was cast like any 390. The sonic check revealed that in its standard bore condition Some of the thrust sides were as thin as .090". Junk.
The same block would accept a 3/16" drill loosely between all bores in between the freeze plugs.
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | | | RE: 428 in the water jackets is a joke -- Geoff McNew, 11/29/2003
Interesting...the "428" & the drill bit test would both lead you to believe you had a good thick wall casting. ...but the "A" sand scratch would be non-CJ 428. Did it have reinforced mains? |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: 428 in the water jackets is a joke -- Geoff McNew, 11/29/2003
With the thin drill bit barely passing, either 1. it had gnarly core shift, or 2. the sonic test was screwed up.
...or, a possible 3rd answer - did the guy who sonic'd it volunteer to dispose of your "junk" block for you at no additional charge? |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Blocks - check the cylinder wall thickness ! -- Royce Peterson, 11/30/2003
Geoff, It was a typical non - CJ 428 block from a Q code full size Ford / Mercury. The drill bit test proved it was not worth performing a sonic test on but the owner, a friend of mine insisted on a sonic test anyway. The block is useless junk, it was a miracle that the cylinder walls are not cracked after 150,000 miles of use. However it was being used in a low performance application so it may have just been a lucky fluke that it lasted this long.
You can also find "A" marked blocks in CJ Mustangs and Cougars built in the 1968 model year. They are normally thicker walled than a 390 but not always. And the 428 logo in the water jacket is no help to you if the cylinder walls are thin anyway is it?
Royce
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Blocks - check the cylinder wall thickness ! -- Geoff McNew, 11/30/2003
>>The drill bit test proved it was not worth performing a sonic test on <<
did you typo? 'cause 3/16" ain't 15/64" |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 3/16" is a lot. -- Royce Peterson, 11/30/2003
I don't know what the significance odf 15/64" is for you but the block was not usable without sleeving at least 5 cylinders and a 3/16" drill was loose between the bores.
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: 3/16" is a lot. -- Geoff McNew, 11/30/2003
From FE books and previous posts here by fella's like Shoe, I always understood 15/64" to be the "magic" number. That is, if a 15/64" drill bit shank will fit between the jackets, it's a thin wall like for a 360/390. Conversely, if you can't manage to get a 15/64" to fit anywhere between, then it could be a 428 or 391, and it's worth further examination like sonic testing. I guess the long and short of it is FE's are "thin wall" castings and it doesn't take much core shift to screw one up. |
| | | | | RE:at the core -- bprewit, 11/24/2003
I have searched every single salvage yard in west texas for FE engines. Its amazing that only 2 out of 36 salvage yards had pass car FE's. Now almost every other one had early '70 360/390 truck engines. Sucks because the heads generally stink but soon will be the only FE's around that wont cost a kidney to buy. |
| | | | | | RE:at the core -- giacamo, 11/28/2003
if west texas is any thing like se colorado i,v bought tons of fe type cars & trucks and parts at scrap prices i,v found out the place to by is farm auctions police impound auctions or just bieding my time and towing of unwanted junk cars it seams the salvage yards think thay have the market.but just keep beating the bushes ford made milions of fe powerd cars.......... |
| I sold it! -- james, 11/12/2003
Well, I went and did it. I sold the 428 CJ Mach1. One of the funnest selling experiences I ever had. I told him what I wanted for it and he said...OK. No haggling. Because he was such a nice man and didn't make my day misurable, I dug out about $300 worth of spare parts and sent them with him. Maybe I will get another one some day. I promise to come back and punish you with all my rederick. You have all helped me at one time or another so thanks. I promise to come visit on occassion because it is in my blood. I wish each and every one of you big block dreams. |
| 68 Shelby KR -- John, 11/12/2003
When was the last 68 Shelby KR produced?
John |
| 67 ford steering wheel. -- jeff, 11/12/2003
need help, my 67 gal.500 steering wheel hub needs to be replaced or plastic chrome replaced. all 67 ford products had the same hubs, there must be someone out there with a fix. |
| | You mean that bulbous, padded centerpiece? [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/12/2003
n/m |
| | | RE: You mean that bulbous, padded centerpiece? [n/m] -- jeff, 11/13/2003
thats the one i mean, not pretty ,but want that stock look, any suggestions? |
| | | GREAT install tip, Mr. F! Where can . . . -- Orin, 11/26/2003
. . . I get the repro chrome ring? |
| | | | Never mind, I found them n/m -- Orin, 11/26/2003
nm |
| 390/410 oiling questions -- paul stanley, 11/12/2003
all guys / ur the best if someone could please help answer some questions i have i would great ly appreciate. can u run a solid cam in a hydralic fe block with no mods to the block? where do the restricters go if i decide to use them? does anyone have any good pics that i can see about where the restrictors go? |
| | RE: 390/410 oiling questions -- Dan, 11/13/2003
Hi Paul, was your block produced with hydraulic lifers form the factory ?. If Yes, then do not worry about installing solid lifters, my practices are do not restrict any oil to the top of the motor ( oil cools as well as lubricates ), and be sure the oil returns are open and clean as well as enough oil to supply the motor at the engine speeds you wish to run .
Production 390 / 410's leave much to be desired in the oil supply to it, my suggestion is have a quality machine shop prep the block to 427 centeroiler specs ( i modify my own with extended tooling opening all the holes 1/16 at a time, Dan. |
| | | RE: 390/410 oiling questions -- paul stanley, 11/13/2003
thanks dan for taking a moment to answer some of my questions/ tell me your opinon of this ive tapped the lifter galleries, to 1/8 and installed my own restricters (not plugs) i felt that i wanted some oiling to my lifters, my block is other wise stock, ill be using edelbrock heads, #6006. i see your thoughts are not to restricte oil to the heads/ should i restrict a little bit? like .120 opening as compared to .080 is what im seeing mostly, whats ur thoughts. iv have opened up the the block at the oil pump opening that goes to the filter housing and ill have the 427 oil filter adpter too. whats ur opinon on hv oil pumps? |
| | | | RE: 390/410 oiling questions -- Monty, 11/14/2003
Paul,
I run the Edelbrock heads and the Erson rocker setup. I dropped a 1" piece of brake line, 3/16" OD x 3/32" ID in each my oil holes. I still get lots of oiling up top and I can later remove the restrictors if I want. As for oil pumps, I used the pump that came with my master rebuild kit from PAW. This subject has come up quite a bit in the past with differing opinions. The consensus appears to be that a HV oil pump is a good idea of you drag race the engine or plan to run it extended periods of time at high RPM. If you do that you will certainly want a high-volume oil pan since the HV oil pump will pump the stock pan dry. I found this out at highway speeds around 2500 RPM. I installed the Canton T-style pan and have had no problems since. |
| | RE: 390/410 oiling questions -- Dan Javaras, 11/17/2003
Paul....Assuming your 390 is drilled for hydraulic lifters, you need to ensure that you keep the center oil gallery open and feeding your cam bearings and mains. (for 68 427 juice-lifter blocks you block at the front of the block In order for you to utilize a mechanical cam, in your 390, you will need to block the lifter galleries that run parallel on either side of the center oil gallery on the top of the block. You block these galleries off at the rear where they feed from that center gallery. You must plug the feed above and below the left and right lifter oil gallery. This will not impact your oil flow whatsoever. Also you will need pushrods and adjustable rockers in order to use the mechanical cam. Good luck- Dan |
|