There is no fan shroud on it right now, and it is a 3 row radiator. The temperature hasnt been warm here, and that is why I was concerned. I heard that the timing would sometimes do that also, but havent timed it yet.

I will try that thermostat change. Where is the heat exhaust valve? If it makes any difference, I put hooker headers on the motor recently.

Royce, thanks. That info might help me in my struggle with the DMV man. Maybe if he knows it is a 1963 he will find out that it does not carry a serial/motor #.

If all else fails, go to a starter rebuild shop. The older established businesses know about these kind of problems and many others. While I can buy a starter or alternator cheaper at the franchised parts store, I do not get answers that work when I have a problem.

Get to know your local rebuilder. He has years of experience and a wealth of knowledge. He can build some pretty exotic and powerful starters for your modified vehicles.

Hey giacamo, you don't mean a '64-'65 matching cast iron 390-4V intake do you?

Really, they're a piece! Sure they have the large matching runners but in reality the '66 & later -S- intake is better. I know the runner exits to ports are smaller on the C6AE, C8AE, etc. but there was a reason for that - bottom end torque/power due to better velocity. It's a mismatch that works. A '66 & later iron intake will provide sharper-crisper away from the stop sign than the old style, very low & flat '65 back to '58. The '66-later intakes are a great bolt on for tall or short port heads, i.e., C6-U, C7AE, C8AE-H, D2TE.

However the reverse is not good, that is a '65 & back cast iron or aluminum tall runner exit port to the short port heads mentioned above. That's a mismatch that is not a good thing.

I've got a complete '65 390 4V w/C4AE-G heads and one of those flatty-takes. It was all I had when I screwed that thing togethermany years ago for the '68 F100. It's stock with the exception of a C6OZ-B camshaft and Hedman F100 headers. It runs very nicely for haulin' stuff but I need to muster the gumption to lift that hunk-o-flat iron off this winter and install one of my couple of -S- intakes or better yet maybe I should just bolt on the C8OE iron CJ..... probably not. Nothing leaks and it starts and runs just great.

Great question blinker! You may have stirred someting up here.

I'm going to contribute a little something based on some degree of personal experience with the engines/cars you've mentioned in comparison.

I was very fortunate to be working for a small town Ford dealer in Central Wash. State in the summer-o-'69. Just an alley away was a vaunted Mopar dealer that stocked all the best iron that Chrysler built in those days which needless to say was tremendous.

Mopar and GM really had it together. We could make quite a list here of what was available from Plymouth, Dodge, Buick, Chevy, Pontiac and Olds. And their equipment was readily available to anyone. I was a fanatical Ford fool back then. My wife would say I'm still .... a fool but that's not what this forum is about. But I loved Ford products and it wasn't easy to be one of those fans then.

Sure the 427 Ford was absolutely killer in all respects. But it was nearly a grand for that option and it wasn't easy to order and get. The 390 GT just wasn't up to the second option muscle packages being offered by the competitors. The 390 GT could beat the standard package, i.e., 325 horse 396, 335 horse 389, 383 Roadrunner/Superbees but couldn't touch a 350/360/375 horse 396, 360 horse 389/400 Poncho, 375 horse 440 GTX/RT. I know first hand because I bought a '66 Fairlane GTA brand new. Had a ton of fun beating a lot of cars...but always the "standard" HP package, never the next option cars.

So in '69 I talked the sales manager into ordering a black on black Fairlane Cobra formal roof (coupe) with 3.91 geared drag-pack, ram-air, automatic. It was a beautiful sight to see at this little Ford dealership that rarely had anything performance oriented on the lot. Which was tough on me having to look across the street at all the 'birds & S-bees with 440 six-packs under their very cool lift off fiberglass hoods.

How'd our dealership Cobra run? In pure stock form it ran consistent 13.7s/100-101 mph. This was at Deer Park Drag Strip North of Spokane, just a mere 250 miles from our podunk Grandview, WA dealership. Generally five of us would pile into the cramped confines of that hot black beast mid day on a summer Saturday afternoon. All we'd take with us is a set of BF22 Autolites. We'd drive 70 mph most of the way. Dump in half a tank of Ethyl in Spokane and finish the trip up to Deer Park. With the engine hot two of us would each take a side and pull the BF32's for the 22's. That was it! I was elected driver because I was the only one who'd ever pulled to a staging line before. And this was heads-up drag racing in C Pure Stock.

We lost just once and it was my fault - a red light in the trophy round. And there was a lot of competition in C Pure Stock. Mostly Roadrunners, Chevelle 396's, Superbees, GTX/RTs, 442's, Gran Sports and lots of Goats. We had a shelf full of trophys by September of '69.

Now B stock was dominated by the new six-pack 440 'runners & Bees. But we had our share of them in the practice/time runs. We did not lose to one that was pure stock. Again these cars were pure stock with street tires, closed exhaust and exhaust manifolds, etc. It was so common to see nearly new brand new cars lined up that had just been purchased that week and were out for their first run.

A-Pure Stock in '69 was basically the realm of the 426 Street Hemi cars. It would take a Fairlane 427 to deal with them and really there was very few in this class.

But here's the kicker. I did get to run one of our competitor's best. I hate to admit ... it was a country road drag race. It was an orange Super Bee with the flat black lift off fiberglass hood, six pack 440 and a 4 speed. I was on my own in our Cobra. The 'bee was driven by the Mopar dealer's best/mouthiest salesman. Couldn't stand the guy. We ran it four times. The Cobra won two by a fender, the Mopar won two by a fender. Literally it was that close. The two out of four races I lost there were the only two times we ever saw any tail lights with that Fairlane.

Compared to a 429SCJ? I'm sorry the Lima boys won't like this....there wasn't any comparison. Our parts man liked the '69 Cobra so much he couldn't wait to order a '70. His came in very similar to the '69: Drag Pack 3.91s, very cool shaker ram air, automatic, Calypso Coral & black interior, sports slats on the rear window. Beautiful Torino. But in pure stock form we could never get it to break out of the low 14's. It did hit 14.0/100 but that was it. Parts Man Bud did go the headers, slicks route and broke into the mid 13's with some tweaking. But really the 428SCJ was a much stronger package off the showroom floor. The 429 had and continues to have a ton of potential but its development was just beginning and alas was cut short.

But the brute to be reckonned with on the street/strip in '70 I will admit was.....the marvelous SS454-450 horse LS-6 Chevelle. I didn't like to see it but they were an easy mid 12' car with little more than a set of Firestone Drag 500s & Hookers.

Well, a 428 CJ 'stang won the 1968 Winternationals in SS/E with a 12.12 109.48 pass in the 1/4...granted, the engine was on the "lose" side, but it beat all super stock competitiors of that time.

My daddy promptly ordered an R-code '69 Mach 1 and was told he had only the 2nd Mach 1 sold in California! (Of course, dear old dad, instead of putting the thing on blocks in a garage, drove it as his sales car, then sold it 2 years later for $1,900.) Interestingly, he ordered the car with a toploader, but Ford evidently hadn't smogged a stick, so it arrived in Dec. of '68 with a C-6. It did have a V-code 3.91 axle and thus was an SCJ. That car never lost a stoplight-to-stoplight or 45 mph roll-on against anything...and dada really put the bug in me, because he used to really go out of his way to jack up guys in 'vettes, Z-28's, even a SuperB. I always wanted that car, and 3 years ago I found a '69 Whembeldon white Mach 1 with shaker, SCJ, V-code axle and 6 code trans. I will die with that car.

BTW, my best time is 13.4 @ 105.33 on street tires with headers.

n/m

Of course not! Who'd have thought there was anything but a '67 Mustang GTA!

Seriously I'm not venturing a numeric guess on GTA vs. GT vs. big block non GT, but I will say that there seemed to be as many GT/Automatics hitting the streets in '67 as 4 speeds/3 speed big blocks.

That's right, I did look at and sit in a brand new '67 Mustang 390GT convertible, sitting on a dealer's showroom floor in Portland, OR, with a 3 speed stick. Only one I've ever seen. I might mention on the Fairlane's behalf that the GT with 390 optional was available with a 3 speed floor control as the standard tranny. I've never seen a Fairlane so equipped.

Great question Penny. Be assured that there were quite a few '67 GTA hardtops made. But I doubt there's many left.

Royce, Thanks for responding to my post. I'm sure this is a center oiler and has no serial # but I need some kind of official looking document to support the fact that Ford did not stamp these early blocks. Any ideas? Also if the block were stamped, where would it be?

Thanks in advance!

Andy

and pages on this subject here

n/m

Thanks, Q. I actually can't use any of the old paint as someone painted it Old Ford Blue already. I did find a paint called Detriot Diesel Alpine Green, which looks pretty close. It's a little dark, but this wont be a concours car, so it will be ok. It's close enough that all butthe most hardcore Ford enthusiasts wont notice, and close enough that the hardcore guys will look at it and wonder for a few minutes. Thanks anywy!