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|  |  RE: interesting 'who's faster" thread -- Barry B, 08/04/2004
When I was in high school in the early '70s, we would cruise down Whittier Blvd. by Bob's Big Boy looking for 'bait' in my buddies' '69 Shelby GT500. The only mods to it were a Sidewinder and Super Comps. Stoplight-to-stoplight, it would easily beat the 440's and 426 hemis. 396 Camaros were a joke too, and this was with four people in the Shelby, I think it helped with the traction (tires sucked back then). What's funny is we would get beat sometimes by this guy with a 455 Buick, a Buick for goodness sake! Those were fun days for sure. |
| | | RE: interesting 'who's faster" thread -- lucas, 08/13/2004
A no brainer! 427 Shelby Cobra, than and now! |
| | |  | 427 Cobra, not always. -- Lou, 08/14/2004
Under ideal conditions the 427 Cobras were unbeatable (On a dry Race track or Drag strip) but on the street was a different story as the 427 Cobra had traction problems. Dampness or sand or just a poor surface would make the big block cobras (and some of the big block anything) spin the tires. If the Cobra hooked up there was nothing that was going by it. But it really came down to the guy behind the wheel as to who was the fastest. |
 | How much hp were lightweight valves worth on a CJ -- blinker, 08/03/2004
How about rpms?
thanks |
| | RE: Nothing. -- Gerry Proctor, 08/03/2004
First, there never were light-weight valves installed in any CJ/SCJ. Some 427s used a hollow-stem sodium-filled exhaust valve.
As far as horsepower gains using a light-weight valve...unto themselves they make no horsepower. The gain comes from the ability of the valvetrain to remain stable at high rpm so that if you have an engine that can rev to high rpm (like over 7k rpm) then they can allow it to run reliably at that level. In essence, you're allowing the engine to be all it can be, if I can borrow an ad slogan, by reducing the inertia of the valve's mass.
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| | | Lightweight valves -- Travis Miller, 08/03/2004
Blinker probably got the idea due to the fact that NHRA allowed Ford to use lightweight valves in certain factory backed Super Stock versions of the 428 SCJ. Select race teams got special heads with the lightweight valves. It did not take long for NHRA to put an extra horsepower rating on the S/S engines with the light valves.
WARNING: Used sodium filled lightweight exhaust valves are dangerous in that they can explode if ever abused such as being hit with a hammer. Another thing to be aware of is used sodium filled exhaust valves have a tendency to snap the head off and destroy an engine. This happens because the sodium when not heated to operating temperature on a regular basis starts eating away at the metal from the inside. There are cases where seldom started restored 427s have dropped a valve when the engine is idling. Spring pressure and a weakened sodium filled valve can spell disaster to your high dollar restored car. I know one guy who had a set of Medium riser 427 heads that popped the head off a valve while the heads sat under his workbench!
Best advice, stay away from lightweight sodium filled exhaust valves for your FE. |
| | Why Sodium? -- Bill Howell, 08/03/2004
Why was sodium used inside the lightweight valves? Why not some other material that would not damage the inside of the valves? Just wondering. |
| | | Interesting Question -- John, 08/03/2004
This is what I found looking up on the internet....
"The exhaust valve stems are sodium filled for optimum cooling. Sodium, when related to valves refers to the stem
of the valve being hollow and filled with metallic sodium. This trick goes
back to high performance aviation engines. Sodium is a dense metal that
melts at temps near the combustion temp of a gasoline engine. When cool, it
is a solid that gravity will force to the head of the valve. As it heats up,
it changes to a vapor and absorbs heat due to "Heat of Vaporization". As a
vapor it rises within the valve stem to the guide area where it transfer the
heat to the head and then cools to a liquid, runs down and the process
repeats. This lowers the temp of the valve head."
I would assume Sodium was the best choice without much thought of longevity as they were meant for racing engines. Though Porsche has used them for street cars. Alfa Romeo also I hear. |
| | | | RE: Interesting Question -- Travis Miller, 08/03/2004
John, very interesting information on sodium filled exhaust valves. Thanks for sharing.
I can remember the sodium filled exhaust valves being used in heavy duty Ford trucks with FT engines. This evidently was done for the cooling of the exhaust valve because a dump truck engine is not known for high RPMs. Under a low RPM strain that a huge load of gravel could put on a dump truck engine, the exhaust valve sees some extreme heat. Guess Fords race engineers saw some advantages to both heat transfer and lighter weight when it came to the exhaust valves. They must not have forseen the damage these valves can do after sitting for years without being used. |
| | | | | Does this means -- pop428, 08/04/2004
Nobody would be looking for a set of these light weight valves? |
| | | | |  | My problem is my CJ has them -- blinker, 08/04/2004
supposedly. Just another thing that needs done.... |
| | | | | | RE: To the contrary. -- Gerry Proctor, 08/04/2004
A lot of folks look for them whether they need them or not (I'm not referring to the sodium-filled valves. Anyone who know anything about the FE avoids those like the plague) since they are "sexy." What a lot of folks do is buy used titanium valves and cut them down to fit their heads. You find them all the time from the NASCAR teams. |
| | | | | | | I have a full set of NOS light weights : ( n/m. -- pop428, 08/04/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | RE: To the contrary. -- Travis Miller, 08/04/2004
Titanium valves are plentiful with 3/8 stems? I've only seen them in 11/32 and 5/16. |
| | | | | | | | RE: Replace the guide. -- Gerry Proctor, 08/05/2004
If you want to use a light-weight valve with a smaller stem diameter. Even if you're using steel valves you can save some weight and improve flow with a smaller stem diameter.
Though, in reality, getting a set of titanium valves, having them cut for your application(both the head and the height), and installing new guides is an awful lot of expense if you're not buzzing the engine to where you need the valves. But everyone is free to spend their money where they see fit.
Just my opinion. |
| | | | | | | | | ABout how long does it take to.. -- blinker, 08/06/2004
removes intake, and heads, and replace valves? Rough ball park figure anyone?
thanks! |
| | | | | | | | | | RE: ABout how long does it take to.. -- blinker, 08/06/2004
and that brings up another question,probably should replace valve springs too? Anyone know the fatigue rate after 35 yrs and 62k miles? |
| 1969 428 CJ tach harness -- Doug, 08/02/2004
I'm looking for info on where the two wires for the tach go on my 1969 cobra the harness comes through the firewall and I can't see where to hook it up. |
| | RE: 1969 428 CJ tach harness -- Tony P., 08/02/2004
Doug, somewhere on the wire that runs from the ignition switch to the coil there should be a bullet connection, unplug the connection and plug the male connector from the tach into the female on the feed line and the female into the male. |
| | | I am not positive but I think that is wrong.... -- hawkrod, 08/03/2004
I am not a Torino expert by any means but if I am not mistaken there are two wires from the tach that go through the firewall to the coil. One wire plugs into the power wire for the coil and then the other plugs onto the coil where the power wire would normally go. Hawkrod |
| | | | RE: I am not positive but I think that is wrong.... -- Tony P., 08/03/2004
Hawk, that the exact same way of wiring as I stated in the previous post, in series on the coil power feed wire. I just mentioned for him to do it at the factory supplied location instead of at the coil(both ways will work but I don't beleive the wire harness on the tach is long enough to go to the coil). There is a factory break with bullet connectors on this wire, I don't know exactly where but it is there. On the big Fords it's about 3" away from the ignition switch on the fairlanes it might be behind the instrument cluster or under the hood by the firewall harness connection. All this only applies if Doug is using a factory(rotunda,faria) tach. |
| | | | | I think you missed my point.... -- hawkrod, 08/03/2004
What I wrote is THE factory way of doing it on a Torino. The Torino ran the wires to the coil not under the dash like other Fords. Hawkrod |
| | | | And I think he is asking about a factory tach.... -- hawkrod, 08/03/2004
Not a dealer add on. The Torino's had in dash tachs for 69's as an option. Hawkrod |
| | | | | RE: And I think he is asking about a factory tach.... -- Tony P., 08/03/2004
Again you're correct sir, I had it stuck in my head that he was hooking up a Ford/Rotunda accessory tach, forgot about the one IN the dashboard. Kinda hard to believe I ever passed english class. |
| | | | | | RE: And I think he is asking about a factory tach.... -- Doug, 08/03/2004
thanks guys for your help to answer it is a factory dash tach and I un hooked ti 2 years ago when pulling out the motor to in the begining of a restoration now I have the motor in and I could not remember how it went.
THanks |
| Photos of 68 390GT engines wanted -- richard, 08/02/2004
Anyone with photos of this engine/bay in stock configuration? In or out of car. More detail is better.
Looking for details of wiring routing, coil placement, fuel lines, thermactor system, etc.
My 68 'vert was not original and I'm trying to get it as close to stock as I can.
Any replies appreciated. |
| | RE: Photos of 68 390GT engines wanted -- Ed S, 11/05/2004
Did you ever get any pictures? I’m looking for some of the 68s but managed to get a few from a guy who has a 69 GT. |
| | | Not a one.... but I did find a few -- richard, 11/05/2004
I have scrounged up a few 67/68's.
I'd be interested to see any of the 69's you have. If you could email any to me it would be apprecited. If you're interested in the one I ahve let me know... |
| | | Found a few, not many.... -- richard, 11/05/2004
I have scrounged up a few 67/68's. Mostly 67's. Sent you an email.
I'd be interested to see any of the 69's you have. If you could email any to me it would be appreciated. |
| | | | | Ed - I changed your Yahoo link to a shorter version. [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/07/2004
n/m |
| | | | | And you don't need all that [url] stuff, either. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/07/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | Yeah, lazy cut and paste. Thanks! n/m -- richard, 11/12/2004
n/m |
| | I'll send you some of my 68 428... -- Tim, 11/20/2004
a lot of details are same as 390 GT. email me if you need more or questioms |
| Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- Bryan Sutton, 08/02/2004
I'm getting ready to start a 390 build for my '67 f100 2wd p/u and was wanting some input about the performer RPM power package. Will it be well suited for my truck? Not a daily driver, just occasional trip to the strip and weekend cruising. |
| | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- Martin Micheelsen, 08/03/2004
The characteristics and value of E-brock's Performer RPM package has been discussed several times in this forum. I remember the wise ones saying that it is good, but that the cam has more lope than it really needs. Try to use the search function. |
| | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- Jill Sneathen, 08/16/2004
The heads are over rated you could get the same results with a 428 cj head unless u need the weight |
| | | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- 390 ranger, 08/16/2004
by the time you pay for, and recondition cj heads ( hardened seats and new springs maybe valves) you will have same amount of money as the ebrok heads. half the weight, new versus 40 yr castings that someone has probably milled. so that will make matching the intake a b*$ch. but the choice is yours. oh yeah i forgot better engine cooling with the aluminum heads. |
| | | | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- kyle thompson, 08/19/2004
you are a bitch
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| | | | | RE:What?! -- McQ, 08/19/2004
What's with that kyle? This forum has always been a fairly friendly place for the FE fan to visit, ask questions, offer some advice and learn some things. I'm disappointed that you would respond to someone's advice this way. From numerous opinions will come a lot of information you can pick and choose.
Now with the E'brock Performer RPM package I'd advise you to read the new Mustang & FORDS magazine that just hit the news stands last week. There's a great feature of a cast iron '61 block built to 428 bore/stroke with ..... that's right, the Performer RPM package. I think you'll find it interesting reading Bryan. |
| | | | | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Package -- 390 ranger, 08/20/2004
i take it you opted to recondition the cj's. |
| 428 engine mounts -- John UK, 08/02/2004
Due to a cracked bore and engine theft (!) I've had to replace the 390GT in my 68 Cougar with a 428. The mounts I purchased didn't line up with the block bolt pattern but I got three bolts in and changed them over (left to right - right to left).
Now I've fitted the Hooker Super Comp headers (I can hear some of you groaning with pain) they're tight, tighter than something thats really tight! This seems common for the situation but I was concerned that I may have got the wrong mounts/insulators?
Royce has said in the past that FE mounts in these bodies/years are common, or have I got to go through the engine out pain again? |
| | RE: They are common. -- Gerry Proctor, 08/02/2004
The insulators (the rubber mount) themselves are the same for the year groups. The difference is in the adapter that interfaces between the insulator and the the frame mount itself.
There are really only two FE insulators. One for the 64 and earlier block and one for the 65 and later block. |
| | | uh, not quite sure I understand that answer.... -- hawkrod, 08/02/2004
The FE insulators for a Cougar/Mustang are definitely different from a Fairlane or from a fullsize etc... so i am not sure i understand the context of the response. He was asking about FE frame brackets for a Cougar/Mustang and they are relatively common as they also fit all 67 V8 Mustangs so find a 67 289 and grab the frame brackets. They will fit fine with you 68 FE. Hawkrod |
| | | | RE: Tight fitting 428 -- John UK, 08/05/2004
Thanks, I suspected I had the right mounts, I'm just concerned now that I'll have to pull all the header primaries of the engine once I've run it and modify them with a hammer to get a little clearance for torque movement.
Or should I fit a torque strap?
|
| | | | | RE: Tight fitting 428 -- John, 08/08/2004
I once had that problem fitting hooker headers on my brothers 69 Firebird (we built up a Pontiac 428 to replace the big block 350 in it....damn fine engine all you FE fans,...er... the heads arnt' the best design I will admit). Anyway, we decided to shim one of the enigne mounts between the frame and the mount with a piece of 1/4" plate. Fixed the problem. In fact, we drilled a hole in the plate, adn then hacksawed out a piece so that the plate could be slipped in without removing the bolt...just jacked the engine up a tad. At the time, we thought that maybe the mount rubber had shrunk over time, but maybe it is just the way that brand of headers fit in some applications. |
| Another starter question -- Joe Metzger, 08/01/2004
Has anyone installed a Powermaster 10112 starter that also have FPA headers? I would like to know if there is a problem before I purchase one. Thanks Joe |
| 390+c6+np205 -- Jared, 07/31/2004
Did Ford ever make a 4x4 vehicle with a FE motor connected to a C6 and an NP205 transfer case? Next question, if they didn’t is there a kit available? Final question, was there an FE and an automatic transmission in a 4x4?
Thanks, Jared
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| | RE: 390+c6+np205 -- Lou, 08/02/2004
Yes, don't know, yes |
| | if you are looking for a mated FE trans then.... -- hawkrod, 08/03/2004
no, Ford didn't have an FE trans mated to a NP205. All FE C6's were used with divorced NP205's (and they are a special trans by themselves, they are short and have no provision for a speedo cable cause its on the transfer case!). However all C6 are basically teh same and you can take the guts out of a 351/400 C6 and drop it into an FE C6. All you really need it the output shaft and adapter from a 77 1/2-80 something C6 and put those in your FE C6. Hawkrod |
| Starter trouble -- Joe Metzger, 07/31/2004
I started my 428 up for the first time since it's rebuild. Even with aluminum heads, intake and radiator it will not crank when hot. It has a fresh starter supplied by my engine guy and I installed an optima battery. Starts fine when cold. Yes it does have headers and my guess is that heat is the problem. Has anyone had simular problems and what type of starer can you suggest.
Thanks Joe |
| | RE: Starter trouble -- Tony P., 07/31/2004
Joe, There is probably nothing wrong with your starter at this time. Keep it up and you will fry the starter. If you are running the cable from the solenoid to the starter between the headers and the block there is too much heat which causes a voltage drop at the starter. Get the cable out of that oven. A quick remedy which worked for me was to make a new cable out of 00 guage and run it along the inner fenderwell and firewall and to the starter from the rear of the engine. Take a look at the Ford Factory HIPO Galaxies with the cast iron headers, this is how it was done. You should be able to get a cable made at any Heavy duty truck repair shop. |
| | Pretty common. -- Dave Shoe, 07/31/2004
The best solution is an ignition retard curcuit that activates during startup. Some of the fancier MSD units have them, as do other ignition modules.
The alternative is a high-torque ministarter, as these really do have more torque, and they weigh less. You do have to get one that fits (a couple styles can interfere with headers, etc). Powermaster is a favorite that comes to mind, but so are several other brands.
Shoe. |
| | Is the battery in the trunk? -- Royce P, 07/31/2004
Royce |
| | | RE: Is the battery in the trunk? -- Joe, 08/01/2004
Battery is in engine compartment. |
| | | | Sounds like excessive initial timing. -- Royce P, 08/01/2004
What is the timing set at? Too much advance will make the engine unable to crank when hot.
Royce |
| | | | | RE: Sounds like excessive initial timing. -- Joe Metzger, 08/01/2004
I will share what I know. The shop that did my engine installed a Crane Cam adjustable rev limiter which did away with the points. They also removed the vacume advance and the reason behind that was because I opted for a mild comp cam and they said it would get a more consistent idle without it. He said he would look at it when I get it on the road. |
| | | | | | RE: Sounds like excessive initial timing. -- Travis Miller, 08/01/2004
Give this a try. Allow the engine to reach operating temperature. See if it cranks slow. If it does, pull the coil wire and again try cranking it. If it now cranks fast it is a problem in the ignition system.
If it still cranks slow it is a problem in the starting system or worse as the engine could be trying to tighten up when hot. |
| | RE: Starter trouble -- giacamo, 08/01/2004
i use a msd box with a start timing retarder on my cyclone. no way i feal it would ever start hot with out it......... |
| can i bolt c80e 8090-n heads on my 390? -- gilles, 07/30/2004
is it cobra jet heads?? thanks |
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