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 |  May Day, May Day...help on a great timing chain! -- John C, 07/25/2004
Boys, I need some help on this one. I'm rebuilding the 390 fe in my 67 Mustang Fastback. I'm giving the Crane hyd. roller in a try. Can some one please give me a few good choices on a timing chain. I've been looking at one of the Rollmasters but don't know enough about them. I'll call a spade a spade, fellows, I'm a greenhorn and don't know but so much. Thanks! |
|  | look in the Summitt Catalog...lots of good choices -- John, 07/25/2004
N/m |
 | We keep killing cams.... -- cuzncletus, 07/25/2004
Re; many posts back on wiping cams. Rebuild No. 3 with camshaft from different maker-- same result. Here's pertinent info on oiling mods, please don't waste time with "Did you use assembly lube, etc." This engine has been assembled by an old time Ford guy who's built many.
By the book and "those who know", we plugged the lifter oil galley to convert to solids, restriced oil flow to the heads via a Holley jet that was sent at a greatly inflated price by a Ford engine guru, used aluminum stands and spacers on Edelbrock heads, and used a windage tray under the crank. This engine has run successfully as a hydraulic lifter motor before with three different cams, some of which exceeded the three wiped solid cams.
Bottom line: This combination doesn't work. Now there'll be naysayers and guys who've read books and someone will puff up their chest and say they've done it many times, but boys, all I'll tell you is this. If you want to spend your money the same way I have "Good Luck" to ya. Me? Out comes the plugs, the restrictors, and the solid lifters and I pray I can save this expensive pile of parts and go back to a quiet little hydraulic cam. |
| | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- Wayne K., 07/25/2004
Man I have to tell you, I had convinced myself that there had to be SOMETHING missed over and over problem wise, but you have me pretty wigged about running my solid Erson in a 416. I'm gonna try breaking it in with the outer springs only, LIBERALLY applied cam lube on the lifter bottoms, and some zinc additive if I can find it. I wont be plugging the oil to the lifters THAT's for sure.
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| | | Answer Gary XL's note...might be enlightening -- John, 11/02/2004
Gary XL asked: "Same lobes every cam wipe, or random?"...you never answered this....it would be enlighening to know.....maybe we can help then.
Yep, I know...you have pride. You can't admit it might be a simple thing, so it must be some sort of black magic.
So....go back to basics. Think it out.
Solid lifters ROCK!! by the way.
Totally reliable. Yep, a tad more maintenance. But, they never fail. How many police interceptor 428 and Cobra 427 are there that can prove this point.
So, my question is this....if you've done everything by the book building up your engine and you still have trouble....and we know a lot of other folks have done the same thing with no trouble.....and we assume your "knowledgable ford guru" knew what he was doing....THEN, how are you driving it? Over-revving perhaps? It ain't no Japanese 4-banger you know.
More than once, the problem turned out to be a loose nut behind the wheel. Did you lend the car to your brother-in-law?... |
| | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- John, 07/25/2004
Odd, but I have no trouble with solid lifters. Have done the same mods you have. It does work, and well too. But I must admit, I only went with the solid lifters for simplicity, and ironically, reliability. They can be noisy, and take a bit of maintenance, but they work for me. I used Crane parts. I did have a block crack on me, and used the same cam with new lifters in a new block with no trouble. By the way, all you can really expect from hydraulic lifters is proper lash adjustment, so if it works for you, then maybe the solid lifter system didn't have the lash adjusted correctly?.......hmmmm..... |
| | | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- cuzncletus, 07/26/2004
I don't believe it was valve lash. The engine builder just set the valves on a friend's 351 in a Superformance Cobra and built and raced Volkswagens (solid lifters) for years along with Fords. He cut his teeth drag racing a Hi-Po 271 horse Fairlane when it was new. Trust me. Leave out these obvious variables. |
| | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- Lucas, 07/26/2004
Sorry Cuz,
Did you check for coil bind on the edelbrock set-up? I know they're suppose to operate to
.600 lift and above, but did you actually check this with any of your cams? How about pushrod length and geometry? I'd recommend using a set of light break-in springs for this next round! By the way, restricting the oil flow in an FE is never a good idea, as you and many others are finding out. Some set-ups get by with it, but others unfortunately don't! |
| |  | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- cuzncletus, 07/26/2004
I did not check for coil bind. However, I ran a hydraulic with more lift than the solid cams I tried with no problems. In a heavy car without a radical converter, I wanted a solid lift cam for greater lift vs. duration. In all honesty, every time I went down in lift and duration the car seemed to run better though an "illegal contest of speed" with a repeated foe would indicate otherwise. I only took it to the track with the last cam and it ran fairly strong for a street car, especially a heavy one.
I talked with the reps at Edelbrock. They said the springs were good to .600 with the extra .050 recommended for coil bind. I felt I was safely under that. Since I ran 3 hydraulics prior to the conversion I have to believe them.
I only offer these posts as a warning from my experience. Others have had different results and should not be discounted. I'm simply saying what happened to me. I'm pulling the galley restrictors and going back to a hydraulic cam if we can save the block. I can't afford the experimentation I've already done, much less any more in the future. Contrary to this website, Ford may indeed have had "A better idea." |
| | |  | RE: We keep killing cams.... -- Gary XL, 10/21/2004
I have a 64 390 with a solid lifter Crane cam set, using stock heads and shimmed factory springs that I built (first motor) back in 1985. I never heard about plugging oil port, etc, until I was racing C brand motors in the late 80's. The only problem I have ever had with the 390 is twisting off the oil pump drive in Wilcox Az when the shaft clip came loose and went through the oil pump. Still not sure how it got past the screen.
Anyway, I would look at the cam bore alignment and the lifter bore clearences. Has it wiped the same lobe each time, or is it random? Have the lifter bores been bushed? I have seen several thousands difference in diameters on lifters while building Chevy race motors. Had to stat miking bores and lifters and matching them that wasy due to the differences.
Hate to see anyone give up on trying to improve their combination, but after 3 cams it is understandable. |
| | | | hey Cletus -- S.Vincent, 10/23/2004
People didnt have problems with (ford)cams a few years ago like they do today. Ive been trying to figure it out myself. Wearing out a lobe boils down to one thing.....The lifter or lifters are not spinning. I`m beginning to think more and more that the problems we are having nowadays is actually the moly lube they are telling us to use! I think this stuff is probably too slick to allow the lobe to hang on to and spin the lifter. What is the benifit of moly grease?? If it is slicker than oil then how does the lifter/cam lobes break in? If something "breaks in" doesnt that involve wear? Someone on another forum sugested breaking in a cam/lifter set with moly lube on the lifter bores and motor oil on the lobes...Hmmmm. Makes me wonder....he might be on to something. Anyway like I said, Your cam is wiping out the lobes `cause the lifter(s) are not spinning. You may want to figure out why. It may not have anything to do with the oil mods or lifter choices. Make sure you dont have any lifter bores scared up from previous chewed up lifters that may have been removed from the wrong direction. I alway try to pull the bad lifters up just far enuff to get the cam out then shove them down into the cam bore area. You can bend a piece of cardboard into a half circle and shove it into the cam bore to catch the lifters(one at a time) as you push them down thru the lifter bore. |
| | | | | RE: hey Cletus -- cuzncletus, 10/25/2004
Interesting. By the time these lifters are ready to come out they have to come out the bottom. I'm going to check the lifter bores and possibly hone them (if we can save the block) but I've lost sight of the nostalgia value of solid lifters. I'm going back hydraulic. I've gotten so discouraged I'm actually thinking about getting rid of the car, which is a nice car and I've said I would keep in my collection. I've had LOTS of cars; this one is nice, but I wonder what the hassle value is worth. |
| | It happens but I think you're on the right track. -- Gerry Proctor, 10/21/2004
I've always found it an amazing consequence that the guy who never heard of the rules, was completely in the dark about "here's what you have to do" and did a job without the benefit of the latest tips and secrets nearly always has the best outcome.
I know how frustrating things are for you now since you did everything right, as you were informed, and that the engine was fine before and is now a nightmare.
I'd just put it back to the way it left the factory, as it seems you intend, and forget about all the stuff you're "supposed to do" to make it better.
Couple things that I would do, and these aren't anything like the trick of the day. More like chicken soup...may not help but it can't hurt either. Add a zinc supplement like GM's EOS to the oil. Once the cam was broken in, get an old valve cover, slice half off the top by the pushrod/lifter. Put it on the engine and fire it up. If you see the pushrod spinning you are assured that the lifter is rotating properly on the cam and you will not have a problem. If you see no spinning of the pushrod, it's likely that the lifter is also not spinning on the lobe and you are in line for a bad day.
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| | | RE: It happens but I think you're on the right track. -- 390ranger, 10/21/2004
why dont you pull the oil plugs and still run the solid cam? with the restrictors in the head. the oil will not hurt the lifters, it is just a little less oil to the crank. if the camshaft lives problem solved and you still get the solid cam. hell you already bought three cams whats one more for piece of mind. by the way how many oil holes does your rocker shafts have? |
| | | | RE: It happens but I think you're on the right track. -- cuzncletus, 10/27/2004
Peace of mind will come when the engine is back in the car for good and my wallet's bruises are forgotten. "What's one more cam?" How about a set of bearings, gaskets, possibly rings, another retorquing and stretching of rod and main bolts, lifters, fluids, time, and all the other incidentals that go into a rebuild. I think four rebuilds in quite enough and I'm really not interested in even thinking about #5. At this point I couldn't care less if I sold a car I used to think would probably stay in my collection forever. |
| | | | | RE: It happens but I think you're on the right tra -- 390ranger, 10/27/2004
sorry to hear you so down but i think we all have had bad times with our hobby. Step away from it for a while and relax maybe the desire will return. this summer i twisted the frame on my truck now i have to cage it. last year i broke and axle the year before i kept wiping out tranny's and rearend pumpkins. strange axles and nodular center section fixed that. finally got the trany problems figured out four rebuilds and a manual valve body later. if we wanted it to be easy we would all be driving a chevy. i hope everything works out for you |
| Transmission trouble -- Jacob, 07/25/2004
My 66 Gallaxie w/ 352 cruiseomatic has a grawling sound at low speed in drive and park and leaks fluid from front of trans (bad!). Is the noise because of low fluid level and getting air in front pump? Or should I replace the whole front pump instead of just the seal? A friend says he has a "cast-iron" out of a truck w/ a 302 that has D-2-1 on shift selector instead of the D-L that I have. Are the front pumps the same? |
| | RE: Transmission trouble -- giacamo, 08/22/2004
i dont think the pumps are the same, you may nead to replace the torkconverterand pump the torkconverter hub is problie mesedup and pump is wore out time for tear down to look at it closer,,,,, |
| | RE: Transmission trouble -- bubba, 08/23/2004
Its a piece of junk anyhow you slice it. Go to junkyard and get a c-6 for like $50.00-Problem solved. |
| | | RE: Transmission trouble -- Jacob, 08/23/2004
I've got a C6 that I was told was out of a t-bird but it has a yoke on the tall shaft. Is this a truck tranny or did some cars use a 2-peice drive shaft? |
| | | | RE: Transmission trouble -- bubba, 08/24/2004
truck tail. Dint quote me on this but I think some old Lincolns used same. See if you can swap or buy the other tail from wrecking yard.
www.transmissioncenter.net
site has lots of info.
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| | | | | RE: Transmission trouble -- hawkrod, 08/25/2004
well, looks like bubba is wrong again. No Lincolns used a tailshaft like a truck. If it has a yoke bolted on that accepts u-bolts its atruck. The lincolns used a different setup with bearings on the output yoke. Different from a truck or car. As far as getting a C6 for $50.00, that is just the begining and any idiot knows that even if the trans is good it still is not a direct bolt in. You have to have the correct mounts and shift linkage so that it will all work properly in the vehicle. You can not just take a Tbird trans and bolt it in a Mustang, noting will line up and the linkages will not work without extensive mods. If you can find a 66 Galaxie C6 then it will work but you will still not want to use it for anything but parts as a 66 C6 is a parts project looking for a place to happen. Use the 66 trans to get the shift lever and kickdown and have it mounted in a 67-70 case, also note that the 66 shift levers are 1 year only parts and are different for column and floorshift. Sorry, it was just another stupid suggestion by bubba. Hawkrod |
| | | | | | RE: Transmission trouble -- bubba, 08/25/2004
I merely "suggested" and followed it with a candid statement so as not to confuse fact from fiction. I feel bad that whever you live you cant find an FE bell mount c-6 take out for 50.00. I can. Furthermore, you can pick one up damn near anywhere for $150.00 and rebuilt 350.00+50.00 core. Dont be making things more difficult than they really are. Relax, take your Prozac, and I'll be back later. |
| | | | | | | wow, misread that entirely didn't you? -- hawkrod, 08/25/2004
I noted that a 50.00 trans is no big deal and easy to get, the issue is that unless it is out of a 66 Galaxie the linkages would not work easily and it would be totally useless to him like your suggestion. Hawkrod |
| | | | | | | | RE: wow, misread that entirely didn't you? -- bubba, 08/25/2004
Extensive-what a f-n joke! Thats more techy garbage that does more harm than good. What do you have that makes you the resident expert in the field of Fe?c-6? I bet whatever you say is a lie anyhow so once again. Who cares! |
| | RE: Transmission trouble -- jake, 08/26/2004
Well, I'm not sure if anyone answered your question...It does sound like your pump is bad.
The question is how is the rest of the trans. How did the trans work until now? Is there a reputable trans place that can spec it out for you? If it were my car I would have the trans looked at when its out to make sure it doesn't need other work. Pulling and reinstalling a trans is a pain-make sure its right when it goes back in.
For the record and IMO regarding hawk vs bubba...a trans swap can be done, but Hawk is right, its not a weekend project unless you have all of the right parts-which are many. |
| | | trans swap -- bubba, 08/26/2004
One small detail the elders forgot to say is all the Galaxies 65-67 have same linkage. The only real variable would be the T-bird (unibody). Lokar has the aftermarket kickdown for cheap if its any problem. Or spend a ludicrous amount of money to repair the boat anchor cruise-o. A swap could easily be pulled off in an afternoon. |
| | | | unfortunately that info is incorrect.... -- hawkrod, 08/27/2004
since you are suggesting swapping a C6 I need to point out that there are no 65's with a C6 as it was new for 1966 so you can't get linkage from a 65 and 67 has different linkage from a 66 and if you swap a 67 trans into a 66 the shifter in the car will not line up properly as the shift arm on the trans is different. Hawkrod |
| | | | | Wrong again hawkrod -- Superior Stanley, 08/27/2004
Back by popular demand. The swap is not hard. Dont pause just do it. |
| | | RE: Transmission trouble -- Jacob, 08/28/2004
Would a aftermarket floor shifter and kickdown solve the linkage problem?What is the difference in the trans mount? Location? With mods. can I use a C6 mount w/ my cross member? If I use the truck C6 that I have will a car tall shaft and housing work even if its not the same year? I reallize that trans has to come apart to change tall shaft. But I don't think finding a 66 C6 is going to be easy. |
| | | | yes, aftermarket linkage will solve any swap -- hawkrod, 08/28/2004
yes, if you use non stock parts and a floor shift it will make a swap much easier. The trans crossmember is actually the same for all trans in 66 but you will need to buy a trans mount as they are different. And yes, you can take a mainshaft and tailshaft housing from a car trans and turn your truck trans into a car trans. Hawkrod |
| | | | | RE: yes, aftermarket linkage will solve any swap -- Jacob, 09/03/2004
I found a tall shaft and housing for a C6 but I'm not sure what it is out of. As long as its 13.5 inch. long will it enterchange w/ my truck tranny and car driveshaft? Is there a date code on tranny to see what I got? |
| | | | | | RE: yes, aftermarket linkage will solve any swap -- bubs, 09/13/2004
will work |
| 390 engine gasket kits -- richard, 07/24/2004
Any difference between vendors?
Looking at FelPro FS8554PT, Torque Master (ROL) FS31080, VictorReinz 95-3359VR. Have also seen McCord, SpeedPro, and Sealed Power mentioned, but have no part numbers.
Any pro's/con's to any of these or other vendors to look into? Kits seem to run about $90, but there's a TM kit on auction for $30?
NPD and John's Mustng list kits, but no vendor specifics. Anyone used them and know what they sell? |
| Hooker Comp Headers -- John UK, 07/23/2004
I'm one of us that have gone through the bitter and painful experience of putting Hooker comp headers on my 428 in my 68 XR7 GT. I know a few of you have shared this pain with me and boy are they tight fitting! I've got two bolts per port (my original 390GT heads had 4-3-3-4?), I've wrapped them in insullating tape to keep the heat down in the engine bay but they are touchin gthe side of the inner wall of the shock tower.
I've yet to finish the rebuild but my fear is that I start it and the motor works the headers loose on a regular basis! Any help guys - thanks.
(A lonely UK FE owner) |
| | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- gene simmons, 07/23/2004
breslin sells a split lock header bolt thats really neat and very effective, should end loose header bolts for good.
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| | | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- John UK, 07/26/2004
Thanks guys,
I'll get those Breslin header bolts, all I think I can do is run it and see what happens.
Oh and Ian, I've learnt not to think about gas prices and mpg in the UK, needless to say just starting the car, warming it up and going for drive (when and if the roads are relatively free from traffic) costs roughly about $50!
Oh I love the UK tax system! If you need it the Govt tax it. |
| | | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- Geoff, 07/29/2004
STAGE8 makes SS capscrews with 3 types of washers with "ears" to bump against the tube while capturing the bolt head.....you need (2) sets @ $40/ea. for a CJ or 390HP |
| | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- giacamo, 07/23/2004
i use hooker super comps on my cyclone thay preform, but are a nightmare i onlie use headers for racing, and thay rub thay may leak i cant really tell i run them uncapped all streat aps i use cast iron but am looking at the tri y headers thay might be a littel easyer to work with....... |
| | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- Ian Dobson, 07/25/2004
You must have a lot of money to own an FE in the UK :)
whats is petrol a litre now 85p or more?
I have Hooker Super comps on my mustang, there can't be more than 1/2" clearence to the shock towers and when it is not running the header flange used to touch the tower, untill I ground it down with a hand grinder, now there is about 1/4" when its not running.
The biggest problem by far though is speedbumps.
I have another engine ready to go in, and it has FPA tri-y's on it, I can only assume that they will be better for clearance.
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| | | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- John UK, 07/26/2004
Ian,
Do you run an FE in your Mustang? Did the bolts/flanges hit the side of the shock towers when it was running? Thats my biggest worry, its so tight in there at the moment that there is NO movement in the engine. I've yet to mount the gearbox but I have my doubts.
Petrol is now at roughly £1 a litre and they paln to start charging us to use the roads now! |
| | | | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- Ian Dobson, 07/26/2004
Great, I'm going there for my Holidays in 3 weeks $2.50CAD a litre eh :(
Yes I have an FE in my mustang and no I don't think that the boths or flanges touch when it's running although they are really close.
Do you have a Monte-carlo bar across the shock towers? Maybe they have sagged in a bit after 40 years or so. At east that bar would keep them the correct width apart.
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| | | | | RE: Hooker Comp Headers -- John UK, 07/27/2004
I've bought a MC bar to fit so maybe that'll help. |
| | | | | | now in canada! 90.per liter -- gilles, 07/28/2004
ouch!! |
| | | | | | | RE: now in canada! 90.per liter -- giacamo, 07/28/2004
any one runing propane, i run propane in a 69 3/4 ton pickup 10 mpg but i pay under a buck a gallon for fuel...... |
| | | | | | | | propane also expensive here....... -- gilles, 07/28/2004
i think ill move across the border...........parts and gaz will be cheaper....just joking! |
| Mustang weight -- Dano, 07/23/2004
Does anyone know what the approximate weight of a 69 Mustang Mach 1 390, 4 speed car would be? |
| | RE: Mustang weight -- Geoff, 07/23/2004
about 3,650 before you get in it |
| | | thats interesting -- blinker, 07/24/2004
my 69 fairlane cobra, c/6 automatic weighed 3680 |
| | | RE: Mustang weight -- Geoff, 07/27/2004
yea, 3800 may be closer...I had alum heads and a half tank when I weighed it. |
| | With full tank, no driver & no other options...~3800#. [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/26/2004
n/m |
| | | do you suppose the scales were wrong on the Cobra -- blinker, 07/27/2004
Hard to imagine the mustang would outweigh the cobra, even with the 40lbs of sound insulation the mach has
The cobra was column shift c/6 auto, buckets, manual steering, power disc brakes, ram air ,and had some junk in the trunk when I weighed it. |
| | | | Maybe...but which bodystyle & trim-level? Got the VIN? [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/28/2004
n/m |
| | | | | RE: Maybe...but which bodystyle & trim-level? Got the VIN? [n/m] -- blinker, 07/28/2004
Sportsroof, Trim 'DA' 9A46R141962 body63E,
DSO 47 , date O6L, axle A ,trans U, color F |
| | My 67 BB mustang fastback...3380 with me in it. -- Steve, 07/28/2004
n/m |
| | | 68 FE mustang-66 FE fairlane -- Paul R, 07/31/2004
My friends 68 mustang fastback 428 cj, cast iron intake, big tube hookers, c6 aluminum tail, full interior, cragar wheels, shelby trunk lid, 1/4 tank of fuel. 3285 lbs on Englishtown scale. My old 66 fairlane GTA 428 cj, cast iron intake, hooker super comps, c6 aluminun tail, full interior, steel wheels on rear with 28/9 mickey Tees, centerline 15/3-1/2s front, glass 427 hood, 1/2 tank fuel. 3550 on E town scale. Both cars without drivers. Just my 2 cents. |
| 70 torino -- kmnewton, 07/22/2004
are there other locations on a 70 torino where i can find a stamped partial or whole vin number so that i can reference that back to the vin on the dash for a fake cobra purposes.
i have several pics if anyone thinks that they can determine something by the pics.
thanks,
kmn |
| FRAM X2 Extended Guard -- John, 07/21/2004
Using large bearing clearances often leads the FE to low oil pressure at an idle. Low restriction oil filters can help keep the pressure up, ...peace of mind if nothing else. Now, what's the opinion of the FRAM X2 Extended Guard oil filter? I don't need a lesson in FRAM bashing. We all have seen the steel filings left on the threads by the factory and heard horror stories about the cardboard end caps. But this filter is different. So.....does anyone know if "different" means "good" in this case? |
| Other boards -- Joe Metzger, 07/21/2004
I was told there are a couple other boards that are also good to post on. Can someone send me the links? Thannks Joe |
| 67 or 68 mustang fastback -- David Ratley, 07/21/2004
Can I put a 390 or a 427 in any V8 67 or 68 fastback? I was curious if I have to change more than the motor mounts and possibly the suspension. I know that I have to have the right transmssion for those particular engines, but I was wondering if I have to make any modifications to the car itself. If anyone can shead some light on this for me, that would be great.
Thanks
David |
| | RE: 67 or 68 mustang fastback -- raycfe, 07/21/2004
390 was a standard factory option back then, so all FEs will bolt in with correct parts. |
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