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 |  '70 Shelby 428CJ overheating -- John, 07/15/2004
Hi guys ... just got a 37,000 mi. '70 Shelby 428CJ back on the road after 15 years in the hands of a greiving widow. Re-bearinged, ringed and gasketed it and it runs hot. After a few sporadic bouts of "pissing out the green", one guy said " the 428's don't like the rad to be filled up and after it blows enough out - to be just above the fins and touching on the bottom of the top tank - it will be fine". Nope. Any other ideas on trouble shooting this problem? |
|  | A few ideas.... -- Royce, 07/15/2004
1. Head gaskets installed backwards.
2. Original radiator with several tubes soldered shut to fix leaks
3. Original fan clutch with no viscous fluid inside.
4. Timing set incorrectly.
5. Vacuum advance diaphragm blown causing incorrect timing.
6. Owner installed Ford or aftermarket centrifugal advance distributor.
7. No fan shroud.
Try all of these, they are the typical problems. |
| | | RE: A few ideas.... -- giacamo, 07/17/2004
bad t stat impeller on water pimp loose ? |
| | | | RE: A few ideas.... -- Geoff, 07/23/2004
If it's an open system (just an overflow tube and no submerged tube recovery tank) it will barf a quart or two with a sane pressure cap. |
| | | | | actually if all is well it should not "barf" -- hawkrod, 07/23/2004
a car that is working well will not loose any fluid under normal circumstances. hawkrod |
| | | | | | RE: actually if all is well it should not "barf" -- Geoff, 07/23/2004
Well, you're right. A quart or more is definitely too much...it's like blood I guess, a few cc's looks like a gallon when it's on your garage floor. Royce had good ideas. How old is the radiator? and how hot is hot? temp? |
| | | | | |  | RE: actually if all is well it should not "barf" -- John J., 07/26/2004
After a couple times of barf fits and the level went to the bottom of the top tank - it steamed out after being turned off ... the temp gauge ran at 3/4 until it was turned off - then 7/8 pegged when I proceeded to steam clean the driveway! |
 | need 428 FE Balancer -- John, 07/15/2004
I have a 1966 428 with a Ford Harmonic balancer P/N C4 AE 631 6-B
It has the integral pulley.
The rubber is shot between the center section and outside pulley.
The balancer is 1 9/16 thick including the pully.
Does anyone know of a replacement that fits??
Thanks |
| Mustang Suspension -- DaleCecil, 07/15/2004
Hello
Who do you recommend for suspension parts for a 68 Mustang GT 390. I want to lower my car by about 1" front and back. Can anyone give me an idea of how to do this?
Thanks
Dale
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| | RE: Mustang Suspension -- Martin Micheelsen, 07/15/2004
Globalwest.net has several complete setups for different levels of improved handling and some lowering. They are serious about what they do - and the prices reflect it.
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| 390GT rebuild - ignore if you read it on VMF -- richard, 07/14/2004
Looking at rebuilding my S code's dead engine (really dead, PO literally blew it to pieces).
I have a bare 390 block and the original C8AE-H (look to be OK and rebuildable) heads I got with the car. 2 choices, as I want a "streetable" engine that will be reliable and tolerate sitting for a while as it will be a weekender and I don't want to go insane in the quest for "ultimate power";
1 - rebuild it to stock specs - 325hp/420ft-lb are Ok by me. My stock 390 in the 'vert has been very reliable and does have a bit of get-up-and-go.
2- spend "some" more and upgrade a few bits - better cam, valves/porting the original heads (or new alloys), lighter manifold, bigger carb, etc. But not adding say, more than a grand to the total (been estimated 5-7k here for the stock rebuild).
Anyone out there have any specific recommendations on which route they chose if faced with a similar decision, or specific parts to use/avoid? Never spec'd and engine before and in web searches on the subject the options are many and confusing..... |
|  | RE: 390GT rebuild - ignore if you read it on VMF -- Gerry Proctor, 07/14/2004
Unless you're trying to eclipse the 400 hp level without going too big on the cam, alloy heads are unnecessary.
A good replacement cam (although the GT cam is still a pretty good grind, just a bit puny on the top end) and headers will probably show your biggest gains for the money. You can do a cam kit and exhaust system for a bit under the $1k level. You won't have enough left over for an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and 750 CFM carb but those would a good addition down the road. Though, you can use the stock iron intake and 600 cfm Holley in the mean time without a significant performance penalty.
FE heads, even the worst, are still pretty good at supporting lofty power levels. Again, bone stock garden variety heads flow well enough to around 375 hp. Over that, it's a good idea to blend the bowls to start, then larger valves with a bowl job, then porting the runners. If you're going to start putting that much into the heads, you're usually at the point where a set of Edelbrocks make economical sense. Better flowing heads allow you to make a more conservative cam selection but, again, as long as you're not reaching too high you can easily add 20 or more horspower and still have very good street manners with the stock heads.
In short, the 390 in the Fairlane/Mustang is most encumbered on the exhaust side due to the poor log manifolds so that's were you're going to see your greatest return on investment. Going with a cam kit is just plain beneficial since you have to replace the cam/lifters/springs in your overhaul anyway soyou might as well get something that reflects the advances in cam technology.
Just my two cents. |
| | c'mon guys this is an "FE" forum, details anyone? -- richard, 07/15/2004
Gerry makes some good points, and most I'm familiar with. Heavy/average stock manifold, poor exhaust flow, OK heads, OK cam for stock.
I'm hoping to get some specific recommendations on what pistons to use, whose cams are better value, if SCAT rods (or others) are worth the cost over stock stlye, etc. I have a bare block and need everything to fill it out.
Is it that there just aren't many options on the crank/rods/lifters/pistons/rings, as most the info I get is about the top end. e.g. RPM Performer manifold, new heads and cam, MSD ignition bits, and a bigger carb. Or is it that the bottom end is not really that important, so buy whatever and throw the cash up top? I don't know, learn me sumptin'! ;-) (please)
Someone out there rebuilds these things, I'm just looking for info on what others have done and some help for a novice at engine builds so I don't spec a poor build.
I know what the parts are and what they do. But wading through all the manufacturere's websites doesn't really tell me if brand X is really what I need.
Not many FE's here in Brisbane so hoping the forum can give me the benefit of other experiences in far-away lands (where FE's are much more common!)
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| | | RE: You want more specifics? -- Gerry Proctor, 07/15/2004
I responded based upon what you asked, Richard. But if you want more specifics I, or anyone else here, can do that.
First, you do have options and they are many but as the axiom goes; "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
The FE has very robust internals (okay, excluding the 331) so you can easily make a lot of power without having to bankrupt yourself with overkill. How much you ultimately spend or how you prioritize the build depends on how much you can do yourself. With a $7k budget for the build, here's how I would do it for a near-stock build with a little more oomph:
Factory 390 crank and rods and hypereutectic pistons. Mag the rods and crank and if they check out, replace the factory rod bolts with ARP Wavelocs, have the big ends machined and re-bush the small end. I wouldn't machine the crank unless it didn't spec out. Do nothing to the block other than an overbore and torqueplate hone. Use premium rod and main bearings (FM77 would be my choice) and spec moly rings. As to the type of piston, try to keep your calculated static compression in the 9.5:1 range. It's far easier to make power if you don't have to pull a lot of timing out of the engine. As to the cam, again, the factory cam is not bad but you can make improvements there if you talk with a couple of the cam grinders to discuss your particulars. I would work with Comp Cams, Crane, Isky, and Erson. Crower can be very "iffy" on the tech support for their cams but at any rate, you need to compare the advice the companies give you to see if they are somewhat within agreement. Throw out the opinions that are wildly outside of the norm. Unless you're trying to make power over 6,500rpm, stick with a hydraulic cam and regular lifters and as long as you don't go to wild you should be able to use the factory rockers, shafts, and supports. If the cam starts getting big and you go with anti-pumpup lifters, you'll have to go with adjustable rockers and other valvetrain upgrades. You can easily make power to 6k rpm with durabilty with the factory bottom end parts and a good piston. I still do not recommend putting a lot of expense into the factory heads beyond blending the bowls. Sure, get some SS replacement valves and have the exhaust insert upgraded for unleaded fuel, replace the guides; but beyond that (porting and polishing) is a waste of money since that level of professional attention easily puts you in the zone for alloy heads. As for the support components, you can use a standard oil pump (Melling, Milodon, or whoever you like since they're all about the same) but upgrade the pump drive to the ARP driveshaft. A large capacity oil pan isn't really necessary but it doesn't hurt to upgrade the pan and pickup and it does add a bit of durability into the engine. Tend to the ignition system with an electronic drop-in module for the factory distributor and make sure the distributor functions correctly (vacuum and centrifugal advance working correctly since if you want to make the engine make as much power as possible you'll want to tune the advance curve).
Want to make more high-rpm power? Keep the factory crank and rods but upgrade to a forged piston. If you are able to do some of the detail work you can save a lot of money. At this point I would get a weight scale and a good high-speed hand grinder because now you're going to work on building durability into the engine for its higher redline. Polish the rods and then bring them into balance. Take the crank, rods, and pistons to the machine shop. Have the rod bolts upgraded to the Wavelock bolts and, again, have the rods machined. Have the entire reciprocating and rotating assembly balanced. Once the balancing is done, have the rods shotpeened. Now send the crank and rods out and have them cryogenically treated. Using aftermarket H-beam rods is not really necessary but if that's the direction you want to move in, I would look to Crower or Oliver (much more expensive, mind you) since they are quality rods. The Eagle and Scat rods look nice but the quality is really nothing to rave about. You can easily exceed the cheaper H-beam rods by just doing a polish and shotpeen on the factory rods. Now you can move to the blueprinting of the block. You'll want to have the block specs up to snuff and that includes measuring the crank saddles, bores, and decks for square. This adds a lot of expense since the machining operations are more precise and precision takes time. Once all of this is done, you want to use premium components and that includes file-fit moly rings (I'd opt for the Zero-Gap rings if they were available in your bore size but I doubt they are) and start screwing it together with ARP bolts. You may want to consider studding out the bottom end but you have rear main cap considerations due to pan/bolt issues. Now that you have all this durability in the engine, you can be more critical of the power-producing components like the cam, heads, intake and exhaust. This is where you need to be careful since cam and airflow potential have to complement each other. If you keep the C8AE heads, there's not much you can do to them that makes economical sense as they are, with the durability upgrades, redundant.
Now if you really want to do it right, start with a Genesis block and go from there. But your pockets have to be a whole lot deeper.
Look up Gessford Machine on the web and be prepared to spend a considerable amount of time digging through all of George's material on the FE. George is one of the most respected machine shops in the country and that he specializes in the FE is a bonus. He's also not shy about hiding what it can cost to build an FE. |
| | | | RE: You want more specifics? -- gene simmons, 07/15/2004
total seal makes rings for just about any piston size and ring thickness, see your local speed shop guy! |
| | | | | RE: You want more specifics? -- hpvnmn01, 02/22/2005
Yes I'm interrested . I've got a 1967 F-250 FOUR DOOR TRUCK w/ a 390 that I'm wanting to build up . P.S. That's right a '67 F-250 FOUR DOOR TRUCK . |
| | | | RE: You want more specifics? -- FE (Ford/Edsel) Fan, 07/16/2004
I just took a half-hour to detail a year-long study, at the Jack Roush Prototype Engine Shop---yes, NASCAR Jack Roush---of the improvements possible to the oiling system of the FE. The stupid system here just ate the whole thing. If you're interested, e-mail me at cammerfe@twmi.rr.com and I'll try to fill you in |
| | | | | RE: You want more specifics? -- Mr F, 07/22/2004
|
Thanks for participating. And I'm sorry if you lost your work, but I can assure you the problem lies with your browser (or its settings and/or the operator), not with 'the stupid system'.
Since 1999, when this version of our Forum made its debut, we've gone to great lengths to accomodate the several dozen browser-types that were in general use. This included repeatedly recoding large sections of the Forum software - which, by the way, is completely a 'custom' application because the commercial offerings were (at the time) far less flexible & forgiving.
If you'd care to send the info to me directly (sales5 @ fomoco.com), I'll make sure its posted. Otherwise, I suggest that you try another - presumably, briefer - post, as a test. Please let me know if you experience further difficulties.
Mr F |
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| | RE: 390GT rebuild - ignore if you read it on VMF -- giacamo, 07/15/2004
richerd i like to use fed flat top cast pistones thay seam to work good in a stock ap as in a 390 gt engin.and thay give a compression around 10 10.5, new rod bolts are a must if on the second rebild. tweice torked stock ones are at thear limet. i use a melling hv oil pump on all my rebilds on a real hot 390 more pan is a must and a windage tray is good insurance. i also tap all my oil gallery puugs and use allen head plugs in them i hate thouse littel push in tipe plugs, i also use clevite 77 bearings, on the heads i,d stick to the stock ones the gt tipe with the hoeizonal bolt pateran and new hardend exaust seats i see alot of fe,s with eroaded exaust seats.on the cams i love comp cams for the fe engin thay work as avertized i also like using one pice valve spring retainers insted of the two pice ones wich have failed me even on stock rebilds, and a set of hardend push rods,this is a basic rebild and cam selection ifeal can vary depending on weight of car auto or standerd gears ect, but a basic 390 gt camed up a littel will give 325 to 350 hp, my2 cents |
| | | RE: 390GT rebuild - ignore if you read it on VMF -- Dano, 07/16/2004
I copied a Janurary 03 Hotrod magazine article buildup for my 69 Mustang Mach 1 390. Hot Rod got 450hp out of it but I only managed 420 @ 5300rpm, above 5300, it got valve float, since the power was still increasing, It probably would have hit 450hp near 6000rpm. Since I can only handle doing a stock type rebuild myself, I had an engine builder do it for me. The parts we used were Crane hydraulic roller powermax cam, Erson roller rocker shaft assembly, custom pushrods, Edelbrock RPM heads, Performer RPM intake, Holley Street Avenger 770 cfm vacuum secondary carb, Speed Pro forged pistons, 9.8 compression, 92 octane pump gas, balanced reciprocating assy, stock 390 rods with ARP bolts, stock 390 crank and block bored .030. ARP head and main bolts. |
| | Thanks for the info! Much appreciated! n/m -- richard, 07/16/2004
n/m |
| | RE: 390GT rebuild - ignore if you read it on VMF -- Big Dave, 02/28/2005
I wish I had a 5-7k budget, I only have a 2.5k budget, and a bare 390 block, and I plan to get about 350 horses out of it. I am working with factory crank and rods, but forged speed pro pistons for a 9.5 comp ratio. I am using C7AE heads with new valve springs, valves, and machine work including hardened seats and a 3 angle job, and stock rocker arms. Roller timing, HV oil pump, stock fuel pump. the cam is a crane energizer cam with matching lifters. The intake is an Edelbrock streetmaster, and topped off with a Cobra Jet 735 holley. Ignition is handeled by a stock distributor. Exhaust is Hooker headers and flowmasters. If I had 7k for a rebuild, I wouldn't settle for less than 500hp (all streetable). Check out DSCmotorsport.com and a PAW Catalog. |
| Can't find a replacement pinion seal. -- Kowalski, 07/13/2004
A Guy's,
I have a 1954 Ford Customline. I believe it's a 9" (Factory) Diff. I can't find a replacment pinion seal anywhere. can anybody help?
3 O.D 1-5/8 I.D Thank You... |
| | not sure it's a 9 if original, take the seal to -- dennie, 07/14/2004
napa they will get one i'm sure, i looked up a 55 and it says 8.5 inch ring gear. |
| 1969 428 CJ Engine paints? -- Kent Keyser, 07/12/2004
Need to dress up my 428CJ engine. To prep the engine block and manifold for paint, can I just clean up the engine with degreasers, etc. and then paint? I don't have the ability to remove the motor. Should I prime the engine first and then finish paint over the existing color?
Paint colors: What is the correct paint color for the smog pump, power steering pump and alternator? Where can I buy them?
Thanks for any help! |
| | RE: 1969 428 CJ Engine paints? -- giacamo, 07/17/2004
paint machs are a bitch if you want it to look like new, i,v had to barrow parts from a friends car he had apart with the factury paint on the water pump pullys ect to make shure i was maching the factery color and go though many spray cans untill i found a mach then you haft to find cans that mach i,v had cans same brand look diferent i do not prime and some paints change color wen the heat hits them witch piss,s you of even more i wish some one knew the perfect anser i know the napa older dark blue ford is the closest i,v found and use it on most of my rebilds even if it goes in a 1976 ford pickup....... |
| | RE: 1969 428 CJ Engine paints? -- dennie, 07/26/2004
Use carb cleaner 88cents at walmart also buy some good aluminum foil, use it to wrap wires and hoses while you paint. the carb cleaner works much better than degreaser on almost everything, buy a case of it . i put an old tarp under my engine bay and raised edges up with old 4x4 lumber i then cleaned everything, and let it evaporate then trashed tarp worked real good.. |
| | RE: 1969 428 CJ Engine paints? -- John, 07/31/2004
Here's a note about paint I posted a long time ago (note, dark blue Ford VHT is "correct" enough I would think):
VHT spray bombs do not offer long term protection against rust. I have had better success with a spray bomb called "RUST DESTROYER" which is a high heat primer (red oxide colour)and then using VHT over it. In high humidity the "RUST DESTROYER" can take several days to dry. The header flanges are a problem, and after 4 to 5 years, a few of them started to lose paint a bit, however I intend to use something other than VHT over the RUST DESTROYER next time. A friend got superb results and longevity in his 350 powered boat (salt-water use) by using "RUST DESTROYER" and then using regular car enamel over it. Also try Hi-Temp Coatings at RestoMotive Laboratories, (POR 15 Inc.) @ 1-800-457-6715 and Bill Hirsch for engine enamels "guaranteed never to burn off" @ 1-800-828-2601. Both of these last two names and numbers I found in Hemmings Motor News. |
| oil capacity -- AL, 07/12/2004
1966 galaxie 500-352 4bbl. can some one please tell me what the oil capacity is. Just replaced the intake manifold gasket, and gave it my first oil change and it showed full after just 4 quarts. is this right? I'm sure it drained well, and the oil looks good. |
| | RE: oil capacity -- Bob, 07/12/2004
Should take 5 quarts with a stock pan if you changed the filter 4 without a filter. If you changed the filter and have not run the engine it will show full at 4 quarts. |
| overheating -- Richard Adams, 07/11/2004
I have a 1962 Ford Galaxie with a 390 eng. that runs warm at idle or slow cruise I have installed a flowkooler waterpump and have cleaned the radiator. This car will run 220 or higher on days in the low to mid 70's but cools fine if on the highway 185- 195, I'm considering either an aluminum rad. or elect. fan but don't know which to do first. This is a car with less than 24000 miles an stock other than an aluminum intake, new pressure cap. |
| | RE: overheating -- Steve M, 07/11/2004
I had an overheating problem with my 390 and I learned a lot of things affect your temperature. 3 things that I think should be done are:
Flush the motor and radiator to make sure that everything is flowing fine.
If your timing is off, it will raise your temperature. I did not believe it when I heard this, but it is true. My timing was way off and when set properly it cooled it down. If your timing is set right, have somebody check your vacuum advance with a gauge, if it isnt functioning properly, it will mess with your timing when you give it gas. It should be at 6 degrees BTDC or 10 degrees BTDC depending on who you talk to. Maybe somebody on here can tell you which timing is better for you.
Also, you can have your new radiator cap checked to see if it is holding vacuum. For every pound of pressure you lose, you raise your temperature 7 degrees. The only reason I found this out was I had somebody look at it at a radiator shop and he said I had a wrong cap on it and he told me it should be around 14 pounds of pressure. Mine was only 9 pounds, so my temperature was fluctuating and getting hot. Also somebody told me on this board that sometimes the waterpump impeller rusts on the inside of the motor and it doesnt pump efficiently, but it looks like you just put a new pump on, so that probably isnt the problem.
Good luck and let us know what it was when you find out. |
| | | I almost forgot. Dont forget to check the -- Steve M, 07/11/2004
Dont forget to check the thermostat. If it isnt opening all the way that can be it also. If you dont want to buy a new one, take your old one out and put it in boiling water. It should open up in a few moments after being put in. If it doesnt open up, or it opens up just a little, that is your problem. |
| 69 mustang motor swap -- matt lachney, 07/10/2004
I was wondering what king of modifications I would have to perform in order to make a 429ci out of a t-bird fit into my 69 coupe |
| Oil flow to Erson Rockers -- Dano, 07/09/2004
Has anyone had to restrict the oil passage to the Erson rocker setup? I have some on my 390 using Elelbrock heads. Everything works great but I have been told that because the drainback holes on the Edelbrock heads are small, the valve covers are prone to load up with oil and could potentially starve the bottom end. If restrictors were used, how do you do it? |
| | RE: Oil flow to Erson Rockers -- glennz, 07/10/2004
same situation i had, first i drilled out the return passage to 7/16.
took 2 set screws and drilled .080 hole in them, then using a tap, tap the hole under which oil comes up thru in head near rocker arm shaft bolt, insert set screwes into holes if i remember right they were 10-24 set screwes about 1/4 inch long... seemed to fix the problem onmy car..
glen z |
| | | RE: Oil flow to Erson Rockers -- Dano, 07/12/2004
Thanks Glennz. |
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