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| Flowmaster Exaust for 390Mach -- Dano, 07/02/2004
I am having a difficult time finding an exaust kit for my 69 Mach 1 390 with FPA headers. I see that Flowmaster has a 2.5" system for 64-66 mustangs. I am thinking of using this kit, the floor pans on all Mustangs from 64 through 70 are pretty similar aren't they? Has anyone tried this? I am planning on putting everything on and having a muffler shop finish connecting the headers to the H pipe. |
| | RE: heeere's FE-RO! -- allan, 07/02/2004
Pretty good article. I wonder how big the Holley carb was for that engine. |
| | | Not far off, -- Lou, 07/02/2004
I've owned several 60 352 Hipo cars including one of the 3 60 T-bird produced with the 352 hipo/standard w/od. I can believe that a Starlines with the Hipo engine can turn 145. Look up a Bonneville racer by the name of Carol Miller. He set a record for stock cars on the salt in 1960 with a Starliner. |
| | | | RE: Not far off, -- McQ, 07/03/2004
That's a great article Blinker. I picked up a copy of this mag at a swap meet several years ago and it's a real find for us early HP fans. It really lays out the type of work that was done to "catch-up" after the lack luster performance of the '58-'59 352.
The '60 HP352 Holley is a 540 CFM.
Also it's interesting to note that Karol(correct spelling on the Texan's name) Miller's '60 Starliner started life as a 300 horse standard performance 352-4V car. He bought it as a driver but then decided to hit the salt flats again as he did with his '56 Ford. He "modified" his 300 horse 352 by using mostly factory '60 HP parts to bring it up to speed - over 150 mph and it was a street driver at the time! Karol Miller was a real innovator and a true blue Ford racer.
Speaking of great articles....I just picked up two issues of Hot Rod that anyone interested in the development of the early big block Ford should have. August, 1958, has a great intro article to a full test of the new 352 Ford. Vic Edelbrock, Ray Brock do a complete set of tests on a brand new crate Edsel 361, machined combustion chambers with hydraulic lifters. They run 30! tests from stock to modified with Ed Iskendarian grinding a variety of new cams to find out what would work best with the new big block Ford/Edsel. The article is so long that September, '58, features part 2 where they bore/stroke the big -E- to a whopping 412 cubes. Get this - they also machined/installed larger Lincoln exhaust valves, what an idea!!
It's summer and there's lots of swap meets so be looking for these two issues. Great early stuff.
Thanks again blinker for sharing the Motor Life article. It's got the right info on Total Performance. |
| | | | | Re:btw. -- McQ, 07/03/2004
It was this very Motor Life article that infuriated then FoMoCo prez Robert McNamara. He was very upset with the cover shot of the Rangoon Red '60 Starliner kicking up sand on some Florida beach. Didn't fit the "image" he wanted Ford to be conveying at the time. Fortunately for us Ford fans JFK asked him to be his Secretary for Defense. Good for Ford, very hot and debateable subject as to what good he did for us - something, somewhere ... Viet Nam. |
| | | | | | RE: Re:btw. -- blinker, 07/03/2004
McNamara would have had to change his tune and kissed butt and sucked it up if he hadn't left Ford. When HenryII decided he wanted to race and win, Mac never would have made it with his attitude. |
| How high of compression ? -- K-SKI, 06/30/2004
I'm wanting to build a 390 for my f 100 and I'm stumped on what I should use for pistons and compression with stock 352 heads?
I'm going with Comp Cams XE262 or their 270 magnum cam with 650 carb, performer intake, headers, 2 1/2" exhaust. The truck is 4-speed with 3.50 gears.
How high of compression ratio can I go with pump gas? Around 89-90 octane.
Please any ideas or replys welcome! Thanks |
| | RE: How high of compression ? -- dave, 07/01/2004
what are the numbers on the heads? this will give us an idea of the CC's, I prefer the Ross pistons on my 390, they have a little more compression than the speed pros, with my 406 heads with 66cc's I get 10.5:1. That's just what I was looking to get. Most people are worried about running this much compression with today's gas, but I believe if you get no detonation you're fine. What kind of driving do you do? What kind of power? |
| | RE: How high of compression ? -- giacamo, 07/01/2004
i run 10, 10.5 on 87 oct, gas most 390,s with the 4v flat tops run this compresion and most of my rebilds are this in this compresion range i feal compresion = horse power. 10 to 10.5 will run on most pump gas...... |
| | | RE: How high of compression ? -- Lucas, 07/01/2004
You'll never notice the difference between 10:1 and 10.5 :1 on the street. 10: 1 and 93 octane gas should be abouit right. Also make sure your cooling system is in good shape. |
| | RE: How high of compression ? -- mad scientist, 07/02/2004
depending on transmission options ( a la, 4 speed manual or a conversion to a 4 speed auto), should play a part in your engine building.
If you for a good midrange cam with a standard (or auto with stall), you will probably be happy with power.
As for compression, 10:1 on premium works pretty well. Duck a little lower if you don't want to pay for the gas.
Get good head gaskets (copper) to play it safe.
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| F100 390 -- pacman, 06/30/2004
Anyone know how to get my truck 390 to perform like the GT 390 with 330 horses and gobs of torque? |
| | about $2k ... -- dennie, 06/30/2004
n/m |
| | | RE: about $2k ... -- pacman, 06/30/2004
What part changes will have to take place? Mine currently has a 2 barrell with the factory iron intake. What else other than aluminum intake and 4 barrell will make up the 120 horse factory difference? Thanks for the reply. |
| | | | The pistons are a starting point. -- Dave Shoe, 06/30/2004
You've got 410 pistons in that 390, so compression hangs around 8.5:1. I'd want to bump that up to 9.5:1 with +.030" cast pistons. 9.5:1 is good for a pickup, since they can load the engine down pretty good at highway speeds, heating things up andcausing pinging after a while. If you feel "lucky" (or willing to gamble), 10.0:1 may be fine. Keep in mind that both head gasket thickness and also the head casting (chamber sizes statistically vary) may have an effect on your actual compression. Cast pistons are nice, as you can be fairly sure you won't need to rebalance the engine afterwards, since they are typically all balanced like stock pistons. Note that you'll need to verify the piston/pin combo really do weigh the same, otherwise you'll have to stuff a few extra bucks into a rebalance.
Your connecting rods are great pieces. If the rod bearings look good and they are not excessively out of round, and if the bushings fit the new piston pins with proper slop, you can reuse the rods as is. If you find you need to replace the rod bearings due to out-of-roundness or wear, you might as well buy ARP 3/8" bolts for the FE, install them at the new torque, and then resize(recondition) the rod to make them round at the higher torque.
If the mains are worn, you can just replace them without needing to recondition the main bores, as cast iron mains don't stretch into an oval the same as forged steel connecting rods do over time. If the crank is in fine shape, you can use stock sized bearings.
I'd stick to a stock oiling system, as the FE does have a great setup as it comes from the factory. If you have a front-sump oil pan, you'll need to buy a $96.00 Milodon stock replacement pan, as if your truck becomes too quick, stock front sump pans can be problematic at keeping oil in the sump. Since CJ-type windage trays are available brand new all over the place for about $40.00, I'd install one of them if you have a front sump pan.
You'll want a mild cam profile similar to the GT/CJ, but with modern technology stuffed into it. There are many choices, but you don't want to overdo it, as some cams only work well when you've got more compression.
Obviously, lifters MUST be replaced whenever a new cam is installed, as will the valve springs to match the performance cam requirements, but so will the valve spring retainers and locks, as well as the improperly grooved valve stems. Since you need valves, you might as well stick CJ-sized valves into the head, since good ones are readily available at good prices from FE sources. I would avoid ispending on hardened exhaust valve seats, unless you plan a lot cross country towing which will cause the exhaust valve to glow red for extended periods, allowing the "as cast" exhaust seats to wear. If towing, I'd have hardened exhaust seats installed.
With a modern cam ramp profile, you'll need to upgrade your rockershaft end supports. The center supports are fine, but the end supports are not stiff enough to prevent the end rocker from overflexing at the acceleration ramps of modern cams. Buy a set of four rockershaft end support pedestals and you'll be in fine shape.
I would not worry much about porting. Cast iron is a pain to port, and your engine can make great power without modifying the heads. If, however, you do seek to "improve" the heads a little, simply have the porting shop remove the Thermactor bumps in the ceiling of the exhaust runner. It shuld be good for some extra power as the revs climb. Note that if you do port the thermactor bumps until they disappear, you can run a cam with the same lift and duration on the intake and exhaust. With thermactor bumps intact, it's best to choose a cam that gives the exhaust a little extra lift.
Now you just need an intake, carb, and headers and you're done.
The obvious intake is an Edelbrock "Performer RPM". Do NOT consider a plain "Performer", as they are oinkers. RPM would be perfect for cost, availability, performance, quality, port compatibility, and a slew of other reasons.
Carb should be a 650 to 750 CFM with vacuum secondaries. Mechanical secondaries are nice, too, but gas mileage will drop noticeably and you need to "get used" to the throttle.
Headers should be any type that is compatible with the low-exit exhaust port. Most FE pickup headers are compatible with your C8AE-H or D2TE-AA heads, but you'll want to be sure they properly crush the exhaust gasket at the weld bead of the header tubes, or else the gaskets will likely leak. Headers taylor-made to 427 heads may not match properly, unless the tubes are oversized where they meet the head.
$2K does sound about right, if you do most of the work yourself. If you have a shop do the work, you really need to recheck EVERYTHING, unless you know the builders are qualified specifically on the FE.
Oh, and with these changes, expect it to feel a bit sportier than a 390GT engine, hovering either side of a 428CJ, depending on which choices you made.
I may have left some things out, but this seems about right.
JMO, Shoe. |
| | Re: f100 390 -- pacman, 07/01/2004
Thanks guys for all your help. I definately know what needs to be done now. |
| My pulleys won't line up! -- Don, 06/30/2004
I have a problem.I have tried six different water pump pulleys and still can't get one to line up with the crank dampner on my 428.I don't know what the engine came out of,but it is dated 1966.My water pump is standard Ford dated 1968 and the crank dampner is the thin one with integral belt groove.I even tried a C---y pulley and it actually came closer than the Ford pulleys.They all want to move the belt out too far.Is it possible for the crank dampner to be pushed back too far?This engine was like this when I got it so I don't know how it is assembled.All these pulleys line up about half a belt's width too far out.Anyone got an idea? |
| 390 rings -- Dusty, 06/28/2004
i bought some 390 rings .040 over. when i set the gaps on the rings, the gaps were about twice the minimal size. but when i put the oil spacer in the cylander it was one wave too big. i tried to make the waves (don't know of a better way to describe them) closer but it didn't even help. did the guy i bought them from on ebay rip me off or something else the problem. |
| | RE: 390 rings -- dave, 06/29/2004
make sure the rings are flat in the bore. use a piston to keep them straight in the bore. If you did this, makes me think the rings are wrong size, if file fit they should be too SMALL. Too big is not good. Good luck. |
| | RE: 390 rings -- Charlie, 06/29/2004
Rings are cheap from summit jegs etc... but also an important part of a rebuild, I'd hate to do a tare down after installing to replace rings at $40- $60 dollars. Just my .02$ Charlie |
| | RE: 390 rings -- giacamo, 07/01/2004
sound,s like the wroung rings |
| | RE: 390 rings -- bubba, 08/23/2004
The Hastings rings have the same problem. Been running mine for two years no real probs. |
| Aluminum radiator -- Joe, 06/28/2004
I have a 69 Mach 1 with a 428 and would like to put a alumium radiator in it. Has anyone done so and what brand did you use, how well did it fit etc. Thanks Joe |
| 428 block prep -- Ian Dobson, 06/28/2004
I have a 428 that I need to get ready for assembly with basically all new parts.
It is going to be running a solid cam.
What modifications need to be made to the block other than blocking off the lifter oil gallerys?
I have to take it to the machine shop tomorrow so I'd like to get them to do everything properly before I get it back Parts list is as follows
Comp cams 282S Edelbrock Heads and Performer RPM intake stock adjustable rocker arms and Comp cams pushrods. end shaft supports and spring eliminators. Comp Cams Springs and retainers Holley 750 CFM Dbl pump carb (is this big enough, its off my 390) 10.5/1 pistons stock rods stock crank edelbrock water pump canton T pan high vol oil pump FPA Headers
the other question I have is on the harmonic damper, the one off the 428 was a pulley as well, the one off the 390 is just a damper, which is what I need.
can I use the one from a 390, or are they ballanced differently? I'm going to have the hole assembly ballanced anyway. Sorry for the long post, I just want to get it done right the first time.
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| | RE: 428 block prep -- McQ, 06/28/2004
What a great plan! It's very similar to what I've got planned for a C6ME block. It's currently at my friendly FE machinist's having some more work done to improve oiling, etc.
First, have your machinist enlarge the passage-hole from the oil pump to the oi filter adaptor. All FE blocks except the 406/427 have a 3/8" hole there. You want to have it bored out to 7/16". It should be done in steps in 1/64" increments, i.e., start with 25/64". It's best to start the drilling from the oil filter adaptor side. But be careful at the end of the drilling to prevent the drill bit from chipping a piece of the block where the oil pump mounts. After the drilling expansion is done, have the opeings chamfered on both ends to eliminate sharp edges.
The above information is quoted-paraphrased from a number of old magazine sources I've kept over the years. However, it's the procedure that two machinists I know follow.
Next you may want to consider having your machinist open-match the main saddle feed holes to the main bearings. This is somewhat controversial as to the benefits. But with your increased oil capacity, large tube oil pick-up and a Canton windage tray(I'm assuming you're are making these additions with that nice Canton pan, right?) I think you'll want as much oil flowing to those bearings as reasonably possible. These oiling improvements don't make horsepower but they allow it.
I'd also make sure to run a high volume oil pump along with a larger oil pump driveshaft, such as offered by ARP.
One other thing that gets overlooked sometimes is to be sure to use a '68 and later oil filter adaptor. These are very common - even found on 360's. The passages are flared out and allow for increased oil flow.
That's about all I can think of right now. Again, I think it looks like you've got a great plan, I like it. Even the 282S Comp is a good choice in my opinion.
One thing I wanted to ask is what pistons you've selected? I've been holding off on this but I'm leaning to Speed Pro's CJ replacements that are easily available from Jeg's/Summit, etc. I think they're 10.5:1 with CJ cc chambers and possibly with the CJ aluminum heads. Is that right?
I read that article on our fellow poster's 675 horse FE in Hot Rod carefully enough to spot that there's supposed to be some new pistons for the FE coming from Speed Pro. I think that they're for the new longer stroke Scat cranks that are available. |
| C.J. Water pump -- Jerry T, 06/27/2004
Did the CJ's use a different water pump then the standard 390's and 428's |
| | RE: C.J. Water pump -- John, 06/28/2004
Yes they used the later style pump with the improved shaft and bearing assembly combined with a cast iron low cavitation impeller instead of the normal stamped steel open faced impeller.The impeller is similar to the style used in the boss 302. |
| 2000MustangGT 4.6 -- Kimberly, 06/27/2004
I have a 2000 Mustang GT 4.6 Liter. It has 74,000 miles and recently I have noticed a "tapping" noise in the engine. I hear this at about 70mph or about 2000rpms. I've had this to 3 different dealers and some other mechanics. They cannot pinpoint anything certain... We are going to fix this ourselves, but I wanted to check if anyone might have any ideas. I'm guessing it might be a worn valve? |
| | RE: 2000MustangGT 4.6 -- giacamo, 06/27/2004
try removing the belt and rev the engin back up to the speed the engin makes the noise at, i have a 4.6 in a mercury and the belt made a noise like a tappat , try to use a hose or pipe to lisen to the engin to pin point the noise, engin noises are sometimes hard to pinpoint any thing that moves can make noise...... |
| | | RE: 2000MustangGT 4.6 -- Dano, 06/27/2004
Double check your spark plugs. My F150 5.4 had a tapping sound and I found out one of the plugs was loose...after it blew out of the head!! Needless to say, I got my Ford modular engine head replacement education the hard way. The truck was well out of warrenty. The new head was only $407.00 assembled complete. And the modular engine isn't as hard to work on as I thought it would be. |
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