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| roller rockers and noise? -- Chad, 08/10/2003
Are roller rockers noise or are they quiet. I have a ticking noise on top my 390, I'm not sure if it is my erson rollers or lifters need tighting? the ticking is equal on both sides. thanks for any help |
| | Noise -- Royce Peterson, 08/11/2003
I installed Erson rockers on my 427 and it became much quiter compared to the stock rockers that were on it before. Sounds like yours are misadjusted or something else is wrong.
Royce |
| | update -- Chad, 08/12/2003
Been trying to figure out what my noise is and were it was coming from. Some how I starting looking at the oil, been change 3 times since cam break-in, about 1 1/2 hrs total with new cam. Each time came out black, being nosy I pulled the filter and poured the oil in a clear container, the oil came out black, grayish, and shiney. A bunch, a whole pile of very fine metal. Now could this still be break-in lube or worse, actual metal in the oil.
Did I munch the cam on the break-in, or after break-in. I followed the instruction on how to break-in a cam, or I thought I did. Now if metal in oil, should I be done with this 390 and start over with a fresh rebuild? Could this bad oil eat up my new Erson roller rockers?
Sorry about all the questions. I hope someone might know something about what might of happened.
Info on what I have
390 in a 76 F-150 Stock bottom end This is what I change from stock fresh rebuild heads c7ae-a erson roller rockers 428 PI intake comp cam XE256H w/lifters and pushrods 625 road demon carb. |
| | | RE: update -- Geoff McNew, 08/12/2003
Do a leakdown test on all 8 cylinders. It's not a diesel - the oil shouldn't go sooty in 30 minutes. |
| | | RE: update -- Gerry Proctor, 08/12/2003
The shiny metalic particles in the oil (particularly on your third oil change) is probably the bearings going away or the cam is being eaten. Either way, it's bad news for you, Chad.
Yes, a cam going flat will cause a lot of valve train noise.
If it were me, I would drop the pan and pull a couple rod caps and inspect the bearing surface to see if the bearings are being abraided. If they look good then move to the top end and inspect the cam and lifters for any wear (this can be a bit difficult since lobe wear can be hard to detect without measuring the lobes with a dial indicator) but you can get a feel for abnormal wear by the appearance of the lobe and the lifter foot. The lifter foot should be convex and have a slight roll on a completely flat surface.
There should be very little particulate metal after either an overhaul or cam replacement. And you certainly shouldn't be able to see the particles in the oil. The black appearance of the oil could just be the break-in lube being flushed out of the system. |
| | | | RE: update -- Geoff McNew, 08/13/2003
Moly should be long gone by the third oil change |
| | | RE: update -- Allen, 08/12/2003
Did you change the timing chain as well? I usually mention this, but one mistake a lot of people make is that if you change the timing chain, you should not reuse the little "C" shaped spacer that went between the cam and cam timing gear. This spacer is cast into new timing gears, so you should throw away the original one. The previous owner of my 390 made this mistake and I was stuck fixing it. What will happen is that the cam timing gear will hit the inside of the timing cover, and slowly chip away at the metal. Also, the camshaft will be pushed back, and lifters will start chewing up the lobes in front of them. Get a stethoscope and put it to the timing cover, and rule out this as a possibility to your problem. |
| | | | RE: update again -- Chad, 08/12/2003
I'm going to do a compression check, I do get smokey exhaust on start up for a couple of minutes. The noise I have isn't loud it just there,enough to torque me! Also my oil presure drop's out when hot. Timing gear spacer, double checked that on install. hopefully something simple. Thanks everybody. |
| replacing distributor MSD,fuel injection? -- fast68back, 08/10/2003
I have a 68 GT Fastback(early 68 390 car with late 68 428) and am considering putting a msd billet distributor with a 6A box ,the car is not being built for the strip,street only. Is this a good ignition for street use? Also considering a holley projection thottle body injection system any opinions?I have installed a 2bbl holley projection system on a 302 (76 Bronco) and it ran like a champ.Any help or opinions would be appreciated . fast68back |
| | RE: replacing distributor MSD,fuel injection? -- 390 ranger, 08/11/2003
Pro billet is great however spend the extra money and buy the 6AL. the rev limiter is worth the extra money. |
| What's my best set up? -- John Wagner, 08/10/2003
Pulled the engine in my R code 69 mach 1 and here's what I found.
D-3 Block 3U crank .40 over C-7 rods C6AE 6090-R heads( which I've decided to dress to 428 specs) All externals are CJ; intake, exhaust, etc. Any sugesstions please
Will this set up work well with fresh heads? What else shoud I do? The block, crank,pistons all look in fine shape. |
| 428 drip rails -- ed cougar, 08/08/2003
I used a set of long finger drip rails on my 428scj had a slight clearance problem with the larger than stock pushrods, I modified the drip funnels with small extentions, (formed small 1/2" sguares of sheet metal into little v-shaped extentions and silver soldered them to the tips) I'm a plumber by trade therfore, and now the oil diverts down between the head and intake directly into the valley. I think they were originally designed to pour down the pushrod holes, pretty much the same differance. 428scj police intake. Just a trick I thought I would share. |
| | To bad.. -- James, 08/14/2003
you don't have pictures of what you mean. |
| 13.5 to 1 390? -- 390 ranger, 08/08/2003
I am looking for a part number for some forged 13.5 to 1 pistons. JE, Ross, Wiseco,even Probe. I recently fragged my 10 to 1 390. I am running ebrock heads. i really don't want to go over .060 on the bore. they don't list 390 high comp pistons on their web site so if anyone has custom ordered any i would really appreciate the part #. |
| | RE: That's an awful lot of squeeze! -- Gerry Proctor, 08/09/2003
But by virtue of the word "custom" the piston wouldn't have a part number since it would be a custom-machined part. But Ross and the other major hot rod manufacturers like Jahns will make a custom piston to your specifications. |
| | | RE: That's an awful lot of squeeze! -- 390 ranger, 08/09/2003
every custom piston is given a part number in the event that you scorch one you can order another. thanks for your input. |
| | | | RE: That's an awful lot of squeeze! -- tom, 08/09/2003
i have a set of brand new jahns 12.5 with 76cc heads pistons i might sell im thinking of going turbo for a record on a fe powered car . |
| | | | | RE: That's an awful lot of squeeze! -- 390ranger, 08/10/2003
i am interested what are you looking to get for them. and where are you at. |
| | | | | RE: That's an awful lot of squeeze! -- Dewey, 02/23/2005
Are they for a standard bore 390? I would be interested in a set .060 over 390. If they are .060 over, what do you want for them?
Thanks Dewey |
| 1964 model 390 -- Steve, 08/08/2003
Also, if anybody has any information I should be aware of, like is this motor a dog, or do they have any bad tendencies. My 351 Cleveland dropped a valve at 6000 RPM and I need to replace it, are the 390's faster than the clevelands? Thanks... |
| 1964 390 bolt up to c6?? -- Steve, 08/08/2003
Can anybody tell me if a 1964 390 will bolt up to a C6? I have a 67 Galaxie with a C6 and found a 390 for sale, but it is the 64 model and it originally had a cruisomatic transmission with it. Any advice would be great. |
| 1960 ford wagon. -- russ, 08/06/2003
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEA HOW RARE A 1960 FORD TWO DOOR WAGON IS? my dad had one until 1966(i was a small fellow then.this car had a six cylinder engine,and a three speed,column shift trans mission. I am very curious (as he is) as to how many of these Ford made.my dad purchased this car in Winnipeg in 1962,we drove it to alberta in 1963...it was our family car for this time and i have never seen another old ford wagon like it... I still have the owners manual,and some old photos,so if someone has some production specs,or where i can look please let me know....thanks..russ |
| | Is this a Canada-only model or domestic US? [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/07/2003
n/m |
| | | RE: 1960 ford wagon. -- Travis Miller, 08/07/2003
According to "The Production Figure Book For U.S. Cars" by Jerry Heasley copyright 1977, there were 911,034 full size Fords built in 1960. 27,136 of them were the 2dr Ranch Wagon. That means less than 3% of the total were 2dr Ranch Wagons. |
| | | | RE: 1960 ford wagon. -- Bruce, 12/29/2005
Travis Miller - of NHRA tech fame? I just picked up a 60 T-bird and was wondering waht class it's fit in in Stock. Be different eh? Say with the 352 engine. They had the 430 option too, but I figure it would be in D stock or something too high. Thanks. Bruce "I won Class at Indy" Fulper |
| | | | | RE: 1960 ford wagon. -- Travis Miller, 12/29/2005
Yes Bruce, its me.
1960 T-Bird is a natural J/SA. 352 is rated at 300 horsepower. Can fit I/SA @ 3770 lbs. on 12.60 index, J/SA @ 3920 on 12.75 index, or K/SA @ 4070 on 12.95 index.
Sorry but it does not fit U/SA. LOL |
| | | | RE: 1960 ford wagon. -- Gary, 03/10/2006
I am looking for the rear hach window gasket. does anyone know as to where i can get one? i have tried every where, Soft Seal, Steele Ruber Co. Please any help would be great. |
| Used or Rebuilt 427 -- Tim Schweitzer, 08/06/2003
I'm looking for a 427 wth Dual 4 Barrell if you can help let me know. |
| | RE: Used or Rebuilt 427 -- Travis Miller, 08/08/2003
They are still out there. Too bad they are not for sale. A lot of 427's were bought up to go in the Cobra kit cars. Most of the others have been bought up by the select few who can afford them and are being hoarded away never to see the light of day again. What a shame!
Someday when the hoarders die off their families will probably just scrap out the "old junk engine parts" in the garage for pennies on the dollar. That how everyone loses. |
| | | In 20 yrs., I've met fewer than a dozen 'hoarders'. [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/08/2003
n/m |
| | | | RE: In 20 yrs., I've met fewer than a dozen 'hoarders'. [n/m] -- Travis Miller, 08/10/2003
But would any of those hoarders be willing to part with their FE pieces for a reasonable price? Probably not.
|
| | | | | My point is that 'hoarders' tale is exaggeration/myth.[n/m] -- Mr F, 08/11/2003
n/m |
| | | | | Besides, 'reasonable' & old cars don't go together. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/11/2003
n/m |
| | | | | RE: In 20 yrs., I've met fewer than a dozen 'hoarders'. [n/m] -- David, 01/01/2006
my uncle hoard's stuff like this and he has OCD so he won't sell anything. but anyways in his barn complete cars he has a 1920 woody wagon, 1909 flat bed ford, a 1956 ford F100, 1936 pontiac w/rumble seat, 1949 GMC truck and those are complete and have been driven and 100% STOCK. in the yard he has 7 1932 ford coupes, 11 flat head engines, 4 steam engines, 1949 GMC flatbed, and engines and parts for them from every era but the sad thing is they are all outside in the weather and I live in the pacific northwest and the the cars and parts are rusting and are just about worthless. |
| | | | | | | Oh, and FYI... -- Hawkrod, 01/03/2006
Lot 79 had a GT40 427 aluminum hub harmonic balancer in it: http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/270565/fullsize/DSC00130.jpg Lot 81 had 7 sets of LeMans rods and a fuel filter with lines and brackets for a SOHC, a dual quad fuel log and 5 427 fuel pumps. and Lot 680 had 7 sets of 427 main caps and 11 High riser rocker stands (just a few highlights in the stuff I did buy! LOL) Hawkrod |
| | | | | | | | And in case you have never heard of Ermie -- Hawkrod, 01/03/2006
Ermie Immerso was Carroll Shelby's shop foreman and left Shelby to work for Holman Moody Stroppe before going out on his own. Hawkrod |
| | RE: Used or Rebuilt 427 -- dan, 08/10/2003
some will part with them,it just depends on what is resonable.i have a date coded 5J1 heads and short block to sell.no intake.email me if interested.dan. |
| | RE: Used or Rebuilt 427 -- Jonathan Singleton, 12/30/2005
817-797-5858 I have a used 1968 chevy 427 that runs with blow by. needs work - Jon |
| holley or 4100? -- ed mcmanus, 08/06/2003
I was reading an article about Pony Carbs 4100 rebuild. Their opinion is that their rebuilds are better and more reliable than the Holley. I am doing my 390 rebuild and getting to the point of choosing my components and wonder if anybody else has an opinion. I do have a 4100 to use. Thanks, Ed |
| | RE: holley or 4100? -- Travis Miller, 08/06/2003
I've used them both. Holley is a go fast carb. 4100 runs slower (by a little bit) but is a more reliable carb. Holley leaks when sitting after a while. 4100 can sit for years and still be good. If you have the need for speed, go with the Holley. If you are building a cruiser, go with the 4100. |
| | | RE: holley or 4100? -- mike, 08/07/2003
Why does every one think you have to have a holley or ford carb.Take a look at the demon carbs and believe me you will never touch another garbage holley carb. |
| | | | RE: holley or 4100? -- Barry R, 08/07/2003
I worked at Holley for several years. I have also worked at the company that made Carter/edelbrock style carbs. All this means is that I've got a reasonable handle on carb technology (can you still use those words together in the electronic age?).
The first respondant is pretty close. The 4100 is a decent piece, with a few limits on power production, mainly due to limits on fuel metering capacity.
The Holley will make more horsepower, and has far greater "tunability". The downside of the Holley lies in the vertical gasket surfaces between the main body, the metering block, and the float bowl. These have a tendency to "wick" fuel over a period of time.
The Demon is a Holley clone - - despite all the hype it share the identical strengths and weaknesses in terms of power and fuel handling. I can make the same power with either unit once tuned to the application. |
| | | | | Barry, -- Royce Peterson, 08/07/2003
Did you work at Weber? Is this the Weber located in Indianapolis?
Royce |
| | | | | | RE: Barry, -- Barry_R, 08/07/2003
Actually I work at Federal-Mogul. We had a contractual relationship with Weber out of Sanford S. Carolina to manufacture the Carter carb to our specs. This same facility does the Edelbrock piece. |
| | | | | | | I always wondered about that. -- Royce Peterson, 08/07/2003
The Edelbrock and Carter carbs all have "Weber" cast into the main body so I suspected they all might come from the same place.
Next question: I keep running into a guy at swap meets who has these Ed - Carter 600 / 750CFM carbs brand new with no packaging for $150. What is the story on those and how can he sell them for $50 less than retail? I tried one and it worked fine.
Royce |
| | | | | | | | Guys, thanks for the input. Ed -- ed mcmanus, 08/08/2003
(n/m) |
| | | | | | | | RE: I always wondered about that. -- Barry_R, 08/08/2003
I'm only guessing, but...
He probably stole 'em.
All the aftermarket companies have return and excess inventory policies for their distribution customers, where the distributor can send a certain percentage of their purchasesd back once a year for credit.
I'll bet that the guy somehow got ahold of a bunch of returned goods and he selling them on his own. If this is true, one of our, or Edelbrock's, or Weber's legal guys would love to have a talk with him.... |
| | | | | RE: holley or 4100? -- Ken, 10/08/2003
How do you identify year and model Holley carb ? It's on a '68 Mustang 390 4 barrel. |
| | | | | | RE: holley or 4100? -- Barry_R, 10/09/2003
There will be a couple of part numbers stamped on the air horn - - that's the front part of the choke "tower". They will tell us what the carb is and when it was made. |
| | | | | | | RE: holley or 4100? -- Ken, 10/09/2003
Numbers found are 80457, and under that is 0184. (A type 4160 carb?) Should this type carb be used or should I search out for an original issue carb for that year, (1968 390 GT)? Which would I have less problems with? |
| | | | | | | | RE: holley or 4100? -- Ken, 10/09/2003
A restored 4150 for $570 is what I have found so far... |
| | | RE: holley or 4100? -- McQ, 10/08/2003
Gone a long time but I still check in occasionally for some interesting reading and inspiration to keep after my FE enthusiasm.
This 4100 vs. Holley, etc. thread is very interesting to me and I want to throw in a little personal experience to corroberate what's been presented very well.
On a basically stock 428CJ I ran an original CJ Holley 735. I ran consistent 13.70's with this engine in a 3,800 lb. '61 Starliner. I had a nice 4100 that came off of a '62 Mercury Colony Park wagon original 390. It's the 1.12 early style with something around 600 cfm. I thought it'd be fun to see how the old FoMoCo shoe box carb would do compared to the Holley. I gave the 4100 a carb kit; installed in on top of the C7AE PI intake that was on the CJ; tweaked the air/fuel adjustment; that was it. The 'liner ran 13.80 at the same mph, 101-102. Oh I also bumped the jetting up a little; can't remember - its been ten or eleven years ago. The early 4100s, '58-'64, use standard Holley jets.
This same 4100 has been so consistently reliable that I've loaned it to freinds having carb problems needing a temporary fix to just get their FE powered ride on the street. It currently is bolted to my new 427 all set to go for initial fire and break in. That's how much I trust it. It'll be there for the cars first trip to the strip. Next will be a Joe Bunetic built C3AE-B ('63 410-427). Personally I have to see a time/mph slip to form a valid opinion.
I've also had good experiences with the Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks to the many who keep this forum one of the best to obtain valid FE information. |
| | | | RE: holley or 4100? MCQ......... -- Ed Jenkins, 10/09/2003
.....What kind of gears did you have in the Starliner? What kind of transmission? |
| | | | | RE:gears & trans? -- McQ, 10/09/2003
The trans at that time was a -R- servo, cast iron tailshaft, Cobra Jet C6. I ran two sets of gears, either 4.56:1, which were ridiculous for the street and were not much better than the 3.50's I ended up running. The 13.70's/13.80s were with the 3.50's. Both set ups were with traction lock. |
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