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 |  edelbrock alum heads -- WAYNE S., 07/07/2003
has anybody drilled larger the oil drain back holes on each end of fe alum heads and if so how big? |
|  | I've often seen 'em chamfered, but not enlarged. [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/07/2003
n/m |
|  | Darn good idea. Here is a couple of thoughts. -- James, 07/08/2003
The motor sets tilted up in the front so gravity makes the oil run to the back of the head and down the back drain for about %90 of the oil. The front one really sees very little oil. I know that if you enlarge both holes that you do not have to worry about which side you put the head on during assemble but here is a thought. You can save some time and money by just doing one on each head and making sure that the enlarged one goes on the back. I have had a cut out cover on mine just to watch how it works while it is running. I know...I get carried away.
I am thinking it was Royce Peterson that researched this and stated on a post a while back that the oil drain hole is smaller and moved from the original CJ design position slightly to allow for carnivious port work on that runner which had been an issue on the original heads. I wish that mine was at least one drill bit size bigger than what is there. Anything will help as it has a tendancy to puddle there real bad and drown the back couple of valve seals leading to an oil consumption problem I am sure.
Mine will be enlarged if I ever have to take it apart.
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| | | RE: Darn good idea. Here is a couple of thoughts. -- Al Phillips, 07/08/2003
James, what you just said is exactly why I come here. Dedicated guys with deep ideas & willing to sacrifice a valve cover to watch the results! No m/c work has been started on my project yet. Would it be better to bolt the heads to the block & drill past the mating surfaces? |
| | |  | Something about that sounds risky. -- james, 07/08/2003
Thank you for your comment.
There is something about your sugestion that gave me an idea. When you mount the head on the block you will notice that there is a place on the block decking that is right in line with where the oil drains back. I have thought about taking a grinder and bearly releiving the block there for a more direct drain back. This might be asking for trouble though. I wonder if this has been done by anyone? |
| | | I cut a valve cover in half too..... -- Royce Peterson, 07/09/2003
My Edelbrock heads have the drain hole beveled but not enlarged, without beveling there is some trapped oil when the engine is off.
With cold oil the oil fills to the point where it spills into the intake manifold area, I think this is a normal thing. After the oil warms it does not fill to the intake manifold area at idle but I predict it does at higher sustained RPM. I tried revving it some with the cut down valve cover but quite a lot of splashing happens and I was not too excited about the prospect of a fire on the headers and cleaning the intake, carb and firewall.
I am not sure enlarging the holes would make a bit of difference but would like to hear about someone who tries it and how close they get to an exhaust port.
Royce |
| | RE: edelbrock alum heads -- 390 ranger, 07/08/2003
I run a set on my 390 and have had issues with to much oil up top I put restrictors in the oil hole for the shafts and it has helped. you can buy expensive inserts or use copper tubing. the od is 3/16 and the id is ruffly .090. ended my over oiling. i also cut up a set of valve cover to verify this worked. not expensive and safer than drilling the heads. if you still are consuming oil junk the felpro gaskets and get the victor rienz intake gaskets. |
| | | RE: edelbrock alum heads -- 67stang, 07/09/2003
i drilled and chamferd a set of heads for customer car, all seemed ok, if i remeber correctly i went 7/16, also i drilled and tapped the oil hole for the shafts in and then drilled a .090 hole in a set screws and screwed it in, make a big differnec on upper end oiling... |
| | | Btw -- Royce Peterson, 07/10/2003
My upper end oil is restricted with a # 40 hole in a screw in restrictor in the oil passages on both sides. I don't consider it a problem, the engine does not use oil and pressure always remains constant.
Royce |
| | One last thought -- James, 07/10/2003
The gaskets, even the Victor ones, need to be clipped where the oil drains on Edelbrock head. When you put it together you will see the gasket partially obstructing the oil drain path. It only takes a secon to do. I think that it helps. |
| sliding rockers -- Boyd, 07/07/2003
I have a '67 410 with H/S rockers. the rocker arm is sliding off of the valve on the fourth cylinder. Cause? Cure? Thanks ahead. |
|  | Cure -- Travis Miller, 07/07/2003
Use spacers in place of the springs between the rockers on the shaft. Anodized aluminum spacers are available but PVC plastic pipe cut to length will work just as well and is a lot cheaper. |
| | | RE: Cure -- Al Phillips, 07/08/2003
Hey Travis, I'm cheap,your smart. how's the longevity of the pvc? I'll be using a 6500 chip to control myself. Will the pvc tolerate 6500 rpm ? How long have you had this in your motor? |
| | | | RPM's -- James, 07/08/2003
I couldn't help but notice the RPM range that you said you will be running. Most FEs' do not tolerate RPMs' over 6000 very well for very long. As sure as I say this someone will tell me the story about taking one into the twilight zone with no problems but most of them do not take over that without something checking out on them sooner or later. As a side note, that is one of the reasons that Ford came up with the 429-460 motors. Even the CJ blocks with that have the extra webbing have recorded problems. Ford made the SCJ with a special crank and balancer to go here and had problems. If you have to spin it tighter than that to get what you are wanting then I would look at an engine family that is more suited to this. |
| | | | | RE: RPM's -- Al Phillips, 07/08/2003
The plan isn't for the strip, its for the dam traffic in Toronto. Getting on to a highway during construction season without HP is nerve racking. 5500 or 6000 may not be enough. I wont be hitting the limiter too often to reduce longevity. |
| | | | RE: Cure -- Travis Miller, 07/08/2003
We used to do this on a 427 medium riser with no problems. Drag racers have been using PVC pipe as spacers to replace the springs for a long time on all types of drag engines that have rocker shafts. Another trick is to use valve spring shims to align the rockers with the valve stems. |
| | | | | RE: Cure -- Barry R, 07/08/2003
Interesting.
I have run the aluminum spacers for two decades. I have a 7000RPM chip in my ignition and have hit it on numerous occassions with no ill effects. I did break a rod on my old stroker engine a year or so ago - - but that was after literally a thousand passes including many, many nitrous hits.
By the way, its a 3600 pound somewhat streetable Torino that runs in the 10's.....w/o the spray. |
| Open air Cleaner -- Gord, 07/07/2003
Has anyone checked out or tested difference in engine performance and
mileage when changing from stock to open design air cleaners? I have a 64
Galaxie with 390, and seems to me that the big 4 BBL breathing through that
snorkle just won't work well. Then I figure that engineers should know what
they are doing, but that was way back when. Anyway, would like to do a bit
of research before trying a new unit that may only increase growl from
secondaries (which is a good thing :)
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| | RE: Open air Cleaner -- Al Phillips, 07/08/2003
A cars OEM parts add to its originallity, not necessarily to its potential. Do you want originallity or improvement? |
| federal-mogul pistons? has anyone used them? -- mlallen, 07/07/2003
I recently rebuilt a 70 390 and used federal mogul pistons. when they were installed I found them to be .037 below the deck. when i compared the new pistons to the old ones they were approx .035 shorter.
I just read where Car craft mag. rebuilt a chrysler 360 with the same brand and they had to machine a "whopping .040 " off the block.
What gives? has anyone ran across this with this brand of pistons before. |
| | Common problem with budget pistons. -- Royce Peterson, 07/07/2003
When you buy cast pistons the typical result is the pistons are way down in the hole. The piston companies do this because their big customers, the wholesale rebuilder shops have less machine work to do if every piston is below deck even on blocks that have been decked repeatedly. The loss in compression also helps the engine last until the 90 day warranty period is over. If the pistons were designed to be zero deck on an unmachined block there would be extra labor involved to cut all the pistons down on decked blocks.
Yet another reason why it's better to buy quality pistons from Ross, JE, Wiseco, Aries, Venolia, Probe etc. You get what you pay for.
Royce |
| | | RE: Common problem with budget pistons. -- Ted E., 07/12/2003
Most pistons have available the build specs (usually in the catalogue) which lists the compression height or the pin location. With this information, it's very easy to know exactly where the piston is going to sit in the bore in relation to the deck at top dead center before ever buying the piston. Of course you'll measure your block's deck height and rod length prior to doing any actual ordering just to insure that the deck is where you think it is and the rods have not been abnormally shortened by resizing. If ordering custom pistons, you'll definitely want to do this.
For the 390, there was originally a variety of pistons with different wrist pin heights to vary the compression ratio without changing the heads or to accomodate different head gaskets. Knowing that different pin height locations are available on the stock replacement pistons allows you to selectively pick a piston specifically to suit your needs without necessarily buying custom pistons. |
| | Only Car Craft would deck a block to match bad pistons. :-P [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/07/2003
n/m |
| | RE: federal-mogul pistons? has anyone used them? -- Barry R, 07/08/2003
Folks,
I work at Federal-Mogul so I have to respond.
1) I have the same or better CNC equipment than any other piston manufacturer in the country. I have design equipment that they can't touch (paid for thru O.E. research). My stuff costs less because I make a lot of them - - remember high school economics?
2) It is not all all unusual to deck a block to achieve a desired compression ratio or deck clearance. Actually it's preferable. This way you decide what compression ratio and deck clearance to run - - instead of counting on tolerance stack up.
3) The amount of optional decking - even if .030 or .040 - - is really nothing when you consider that the decks are anywhere from 1/2 up to one inch thick on most engines. The engines we are working on are at least 30 or even 40 years old, and many have been rebuilt (and decked) numerous times. If we made the pistons at the original compression distance they'd be sticking up in the breeze on some of these blocks.
4) The raciest $800 small block Chevy pistons on earth are shorter than the original distance for the same reason. This way you determine the specs you want. |
| | | Makes sense but... -- Wayne K., 07/09/2003
I WAS surprised when my Silvolites were .040" down under after the block was cut down .010". I was shooting for 9.5:1 and ended up with only 9:1 because I opted not to shave it further for fears of overheating, and having to fool with everything else as well. I didn't want to cut my intake because I have another big block I want to use it on as well.
Just surprised,
Wayne |
| | | I politely disagree with Barry R. -- Royce Peterson, 07/09/2003
I have in my current fleet four 427 FE's and a 428CJ. I have had several 390's in the past and a 352. These engines normally have never been decked or maybe .005 - .010. It is advantageous to leave the deck as tall as possible to maintain pushrod and intake manifold geometry. Budget rebuild shops typically turn out crap from my experience with AER and the like. I am not faulting the quality of the pistons, only the design which sucks big time.
A really good set of zero deck forged FE pistons costs about $500 plus shipping from Ross including pins. The pistons are right at 510 grams on a 427, less for a 390 or 428. That is about 250 grams per piston less than a TRW forged piston at least. I have not seen a weight of one of those cast pistons but predict it to be in the same ballpark.
A piston at zero deck provides more efficient combustion for less chamber area and obviously more power. There are different chamber size FE heads to vary compression by a couple points. Milling the crap out of a good FE block is wrong, it just sets up a whole bunch of labor and potential problems easily solved by getting the right pistons in the first place, thereby making heads and intakes usable on other engines in the future.
If you want even lower compression, dish pistons are available too.
Royce |
| | | | RE: I politely disagree with Barry R. -- Barry_R, 07/09/2003
1) Disagree with me and you run the risk of forcing me to change my mind - - I am always open to comments (and corrections).
2) I concurr with the benefits of zero deck - - it is a good place to go if you can get there. My preference is to target .005 below the deck. This gives a tight quench area while allowing a little room for variances in rod length, crank stroke and piston compression distance. If the block has been cut, you need a shorter piston to hit zero.
3) You are fortunate to have non-cut FE blocks. Many, many have been rebuilt many times. It can get pretty tough to verify (until you measure deck clearance) whether the block you buy at the wrecking yard or swap meet has been cut once or twice in the past 40 years. Ten thou is a pretty small number...
4) Lower weight pistons have benefits in terms of increased rod and bearing durabilty and thus increased RPM potential. They really don't make the car measurably faster - but the higher RPM will - - if you use it.
5) The lightweight pistons do have a downside - you have to rebalance the crank quite a bit to make up for the weight reduction. Is cutting a good FE crank a "good thing" if cutting the block is not? |
| | | | | Balancing -- Royce Peterson, 07/09/2003
The balancing of the rotating ssembly is very easy when the reciprocating parts get lighter, hard when they get heavier because that means adding expensive Mallory metal.
I think the difference in my motors and the ones at a rebuilder's shop is that their cores are typically overheated, blown up or who knows what. I try to buy only good stuff to work with and avoid anything with signs of a traumatic life.
Royce |
| | | | | Interesting. Thanks very much for chiming in, Barry. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/09/2003
n/m |
| Wanted-Your opinions -- Al Phillips, 07/07/2003
www.legendaryfordmagazine.com is looking for input on what they should put in their magazine. Seems like a good way to highlight some rare old Fords. |
| 428 cobrajet engine blocks -- Tim Bartnik, 07/06/2003
I have a 428 cobra jet , fully machined. It's bored and stressed honed .020, studded mains and alignhoned. It been magnafluxed and decked, what is it worth? I also have the crankshaft, std. std. and rods, not machined. What are the worth also. |
| | RE: 428 cobrajet engine blocks -- stuart, 07/06/2003
Were do you live and how much do you want for it? |
| | | RE: 428 cobrajet engine blocks -- Tim Bartnik, 07/07/2003
I live in Windsor Ontario, but would be sending it from work, at Roush Racing in Livonia Michigan. I am a engine machinist and did all the work myself. I was trying to find out how much they are worth. |
| | I think you'll find value depends in part on cast ID & date. [n/m] -- Mr F, 07/07/2003
n/m |
| 1973 f100 fe 390 -- Sean Pack, 07/06/2003
Just recently aquired a 1973 F100 Custom. My dad was the only other owner. The original motor was a 360. Upon expiration a 390 was built and installed. The 360 ran stronger than the 390. Several problems with the current setup. I believe it to be bone stock even the 2 barrell carb. It severly lacks on power. Is this enough carb for this big block? It will not idle until it is warmed up. When at half throttle it spark knocks. When I go all the way to the floor I feel it nose over (sorry but don't know a better way to describe it.) My parents had a 66 Fairlane GT and I thought this 390 would be comparable on power but it is FAR from it. Any ideas anyone?
I am not sure the vacuum line to the advance is routed correctly or if it is even working properly. The vacuum line for the advance is attached to the vacuum on the carb. Is this correct?
I am thinking of putting on a few "bolt ons". I have been reading in this forum several mention the pertronix and several mention the duraspark. Where would I get a duraspark? Which would be best for this application.
Intake - C7TE9425F
Heads - D2TEA
EXHAUST MANIFOLDS -
Passenger side - D2TE94
Driver side - D2TE9431AA
I want a daily driver but also want my 390 to be used to its potential. Any thoughts on headers, intakes, carb. What kind? Please help me bring this big block back to life. Thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions or questions. |
| | RE: 1973 f100 fe 390 -- Ross, 07/07/2003
There is something wrong, that thing should run better than the 360.
1. Sounds to me like a combination of timing, choke adjustment, and most importantly vacuum leak.
My guess is its an intake gasket leak, probably when they were setting the heavy intake down. One way you can check this, when it is idling, cup your hands over the carb, if it idles up, its got a leak.
Be careful and if you are the kind of guy who may get a tie or finger caught, dont do it. I'd bet dollars to donuts you are only making power on 6 cylinders due to a vacuum leak
When you fix that, it'll probably idle right, then set the timing to 10 BTDC degrees for a good rule of thumb. |
| shaker question -- Mike, 07/05/2003
Have a weird shaker question for you guys. I have a friend that has a 428 CJ shaker set up minus the base. He'll make me a deal on the other parts, but the bases are rare and expensive. I'm not worried about concours correct, but I do want it to look good. Can I take a standard 390 base and fabricate the 3 tabs that hold on the top? Basically, I'm wondering if the standard 390 bases have the same dimensions as a shaker base. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike |
| dove hi-riser heads and intake -- terry tobolt, 07/05/2003
I have heard bad and good things about dove heads i am looking to buy from jim any feedback is there someone else making hi-riser heads also any feedback on dove manfolds terry |
| | Twelve years on a set without any issues. -- Ted E., 07/05/2003
I ran a set of Dove Hi-Risers aluminum heads on a stroker and got twelve years out of them before I retired them. The only thing I specified out of the ordinary when I ordered them was to have iron guides in them instead of the bronze or berrillium that normally is supplied. This was so I could use my own screw in bronze within the iron. |
| | Cover your butt. -- Royce Peterson, 07/05/2003
If you are planning to buy some Dove parts I recommend going through one of the distributors that takes a credit card. Gessford, Carl's Ford Parts or DSC Motorsport all sell Dove parts and will assure you get what you are after.
Here's a link to Carl:
www.carlsfordparts.com
Royce |
| 390 questions -- new at this, 07/04/2003
anyone know what ci i can make a 390 into. Like a 302 will make a 347 stroker and a 351 can make a 427, i am looking to do the same but with a 390. also where would i be able to get just a 390 crate block i dont really want pistons or crank but i will take them? anyway thanks for the imput
saving in TN |
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