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| Shoe..rockershaft end support stands... -- Boydster, 05/16/2002
I am in the middle of buying the Harland-Sharp roller rockers for a '67 410. I am using the original C7AE heads with some minor port work. I've already got the Edelbrock RPM manifold and cam and lifters. You mentioned in an earlier post about having rockershaft end support stands or be sorry? Can you explain? |
| | Stock rockershafts flex with modern camshafts. -- Dave Shoe, 05/17/2002
Rockershaft flex was dealt with on the 427 by using cast iron pedestals. Iron pedestals with the slot cut into them provided clamping rigidity along the entire pedestal, so the rocker didn't seem to be standing out all that far. This worked fine back when racing valve spring technology was more primitive.
Factory aluminum pedestals don't have the capacity to clamp the shaft like the iron pedestals, partly because they don't have the slot and partly because aluminum is three times more flexible than iron.
The goal is to switch to beefier aluminum or steel pedestals, but the critical need is to get the end supports replaced because that sturdy-looking stub of a rockershaft hanging off the end is unbelievably flexible, particularly with modern camshafts which have been designed with fast ramps suitable for modern valve spring technology.
All FEs with "beyond CJ" camshafts MUST have rocker end support stands of some sort, unless you want to have a "story" to tell (I have stories, as do many others who learned the hard way). Breakage can be expected, too, so you won't have to wait too long to learn.
Stiffer rockershafts are available with thicker walls or the bogus "hardening" claim (hardening helps NOTHING in this situation), but the problem is shafts can only add thickness at the ID, and this does little to add rigidity. Even a solid steel rockershaft would tend to flex too much, so the end support stand is the only first place to look. Reinforced (thicker) shafts are a fine third line of defense.
There are several pedestal end support designs with varying cost and sophistication, but it seems they all work if you're not planning lifts beyond .650 and revs beyond 7000. You do want to look at the more expensive ones if you want to push these limits.
Sorry, I'm not knowledgeable about all the current offerings, so it might be good to ask the forum where the best place is to get some.
The second line of defense is to replace the wimpy rockershaft springs with solid aluminum dowels, and the fourth is probably to replace the center pedestals, though the details get sorta engine-specific beyond the dowels.
I seem to recall I paid about $120 for some nice FPP end supports about a decade ago. Don't know what they're going for now. Hey, $120 seemed kind of steep until I saw the mess left by the stock pedestals.
JMO, Shoe. |
| | | RE: Stock rockershafts flex with modern camshafts. -- afret, 05/17/2002
I was wondering how common is shaft breakage when using steel 427 rocker stands and the thick FPP or equivalent shafts using dual springs (350 lbs open pressure or so)? Seems like the point of breakage would be the bolt hole area and the clamping steel stand will move the point of stress out to the outer edge of the stand away from the bolt hole and to a strong area of the shaft. Also the lever arm of the cantilevered section of the shaft is shortened. Just wanted to get input on your experiences. Thanks. |
| | | | I don't have experience in this area, but... -- Dave Shoe, 05/17/2002
...I seem to have the same picture in my mind that you do.
Since 427 split iron stands are not particularly common, I only look at the aftermarket.
You mentioned 427 steel. I believe the factory ones are iron (I may be wrong), so aftermarket alloy steel stands may be superior to the iron ones, but I don't know.
Shoe. |
| | | | | RE: I don't have experience in this area, but... -- afret, 05/17/2002
Hi Shoe, Thanks for your reply. You seem to be the best storehouse of FE knowledge bar none. I think we all have learned a lot from your extensive research and informative posts on this and the other FE forums. Dennis at DSC describes the 427 stands as steel and also wouldn't cast iron crack instead of bending a bit when the split area moves to clamp the shaft? I use the low riser stands and they sure seem like steel. Thanks again. afret |
| | | RE Hey Shoe,would i have to also? -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/17/2002
Since i am going with the edelbrock performer cam that matches the fe series intake and heads for the 390,will i also have to have those tougher rocker end support stands and beffier rockershaft springs.Im not going racing but just want more pull off the line. |
| | | | RE; It looks like cast steel , not iron. n/m -- Ray, 05/17/2002
n/m |
| Cruise-o-Matic to c6 conversion -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/16/2002
Since i plan on yankin the engine soon and the transmission needs a fixin,Id like to know what is involved in putting a c6 behind a 61/62 390 engine |
| | Make sure you replace the flexplate. Also... -- Dave Shoe, 05/17/2002
...some 1961/62 engines didn't come with an engine plate sandwiched between the block and bellhousing. If you install a C6, you'll need to add one to keep the spacing proper, as all C6 engines got an engine plate.
The C6 flexplate is needed for two reasons. First, the torque converter offset is apparently different between the two trannys, and keeping the correct flexplate will assure the front tranny pump engages properly, and also the #3 engine main bearing doesn't get overworked at the thrust face. Second, the '61/'62 starter was a different design entirely (early FE), so you'll have to use a starter compatible with the tranny/flywheel you select (late FE).
Shoe. |
| | RE: Cruise-o-Matic to C6 conversion -- hawkrod, 05/17/2002
since ford did this at the factory it is really easy to duplicate by using the factory parts. the hardest part (and not really that hard) is to find a C6 donor car. the 66 thunderbird used C6 and the chassis is exactly the same. you will need; the transmission mount, the shift lever from the transmission (don't use the 66 trans they have potential problems and still have the CM shift pattern), the kick down linkage, and the shift linkage. the shift linkage is much more involved than the CM setup but it is needed to make the shift indicator register properly. it all bolts in easily and works fine. the hardest part is mounting one of the frame side shift belcrank bolts. if i remember correctly it uses one stock bolt and you have to drill one small hole but just try getting a drill in there with the trans in place. and the trans has to be in place to see how it needs to mount as the other end mounts on the trans! you can bolt it all together and mark it and then pull the trans back out but i am too damn lazy for that. hawkrod |
| | | RE: Re-use old yoke or use c6 yoke? -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/17/2002
Do i need to re use the yoke from the cruise-o-matic to fit on the c6 or go ahead and use the one from the c6. |
| | | | RE: Use c6 yoke? -- SDP, 05/17/2002
Im pretty sure you will need the C6 yoke as its 31spline and most of the Cruiso's I have seen use a 28spline yoke. |
| | | | | Cruise-o-Matic to C6 Conversion -- Rob, 05/18/2002
I never had to change my flexplate when I changed my Crap-o-matic to a C6, and I eliminated the linkage problem by buying a floor shifter...I eliminated the problem of mounting it by making a mount out of angle iron. the only problem you might run into is the driveshaft length, and Yoke/U-Joint connections, this was my major problem and I have had 2 driveshats cut for the job... this is just my experience tho.
Rob |
| Autolite 4100 1.12 With Edlebrock Intake -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/16/2002
I intend to have Pony Carbuertors redo my 4100 autolite but,i also want to upgrade the factory intake to the performer.Will the autolite carb fit on top of the edelbrock intake without modification. |
| | It should...... -- Ed Jenkins, 05/18/2002
as Holleys and Autolites are pretty much interhangable, however the base sealing problem may be worse.
You will want to test fit it before running it on your engine. |
| | | RE: It should...... -- Terry Harroun, 05/22/2002
Make sure you use a solid spacer as opposed to some of the "honeycombed" ones to be sure you have a good vacuum seal. I have a 289 with the Performer RPM intake and I mounted a 4100 to it last night. With the stock cleaner and a 1" aluminum spacer it fits perfectly. |
| | RE: Autolite 4100 1.12 With Edlebrock Intake -- Terry Harroun, 05/22/2002
Sorry, I just realized I posted that to the FE group instead of the general. Maybe I should be a little more careful. :) |
| Edelbrock Intake&Cam for FE Engines -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/16/2002
Edelbrock list performer intakes and cams for FE series engines but on the intake,the years start at 1966 and up and on the cam 1963 and up.What problem would i run into if i put these items on a 1962 block(technicly 1961) |
| spec's on my engine !! -- Enrique Tamayo, 05/16/2002
I just got a 64 Galaxie whit the Thunderbird package, 390 engine, please help me to find about the spec's ??!! |
| Anyone know how to convert to Duraspark? -- Matt, 05/15/2002
I have a Duraspark system that I want to add to my '69 Mach, anyone know which wires to splice? Thanks, Matt |
| valve job vs. clean cyl.bores -- tbolt, 05/15/2002
what if a fella put a small bead of non-hardening clay around the top (circumfrence) of the pistons while cleaning deck surface. doyou think this would keep the small particles out of crevace between piston and cyl. wall? |
| Streetmaster vs. Streetdominator -- Jim, 05/15/2002
Anyone have any info in comparison of these two? RPM range, CFM's, port sizes, etc.? I hear that the dom has smaller runners than the master. Is this true? Thanks Guy! Hey Dave! Hows that Streetmaster that you stole from me working? :) |
| Duraspark conversion wiring harness? -- Matt, 05/15/2002
I want to add a Ford duraspark ignition to my '69 Mach, but I'm not crazy about cutting into my original harness. Does anyone make a conversion harness for this? Thanks, Matt |
| | RE: Duraspark conversion wiring harness? -- Barry B, 05/15/2002
Go to http://www.fordracing.com/ and click on "performance parts" at the top. Then click on "parts search" and enter in the part number M-12071-A301 |
| Original 69 390 engine component paint colors? -- opie390, 05/15/2002
Can somebody post the original engine and component colors were for a 1969 mach 1 390 w/power steering & no a/c. Doesn't have to be perfect but what colors were the block, manifolds alt and pwr steering brackets coil bracket etc. Or if somebody was real nice maybe responds with a pic of a restored 390's engine compartment. Thanks. |
| | RE: Original 69 390 engine component paint colors? -- Mike McQuesten, 05/16/2002
Since no one is providing you an answer I'll throw my opinions/rememberances in the ring and that might bring on the "correctors".
Block: Ford Corporate Blue. Make sure you get the right shade which is a medium blue, NOT the lighter early sixties 352-2V valve cover blue. And NOT the real dark flathead Ford blue. It now seems to be the mostly commonly available "Ford Blue". I remember buying Ford blue in the late sixties and when I sprayed it...."what in the hell is that?!"
Or what the hey, just do what a lot of nuts did back in the sixties.....paint the block, etc. Chevy Orange! Honestly, I never did that. But I was tempted cause I thought the Ford blue was such a meek scheme. But I've seen the error in my thinking that way. Now I just paint 'em black! No Consours for me!
Manifolds? Intake? Same as the block, the correct Ford Blue. Exhaust? They weren't painted. Just left to rust and look pretty crappy. And there's nothing wrong with that if you're going concours. Otherwise you can paint them with Eastwoods/POR15/ etc. cast iron shade. To me that looks better than rust.
Alt., PS, coil brackets? Can't go wrong with a semi gloss black. |
| | | 390 engine paint -- opie, 05/28/2002
thanks for the info |
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