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| cast iron headers -- keaton, 05/10/2002
will the galaxie 427 cast iron headers fit in a 67 fairlane gta with a 390? i have also seen a short set and a long? will they both fit, what is the difference (besides 4 inches)? what are the advantages compared to ceramic coated haeders?
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| | RE: cast iron headers -- Mike McQuesten, 05/10/2002
Sorry the Full Size Galaxie cast iron HP exhaust manifolds, both the short & the long will NOT fit into a unibody car such as your Fairlane GTA. Unless.....you want to convert the front steering/suspension to Mustang II/Pinto/Boobcat(sp?) thus allowing you to eliminate the front shock towers and other obstructions. Then just about any kind of exhaust plumbing you can dream up should fit. But maybe you don't want to do that to a '67 Fairlane GTA? It's your car though. |
| | | RE: wow!! -- Mike McQuesten, 05/12/2002
Nice job Bob! To say the least. Thanks for those links. They're bookmarked on my computer. That's what we've needed.
One note I'd like to add about running the HP shortys in a Ford Pickup. Specifically I'm talking about a '68 F 100 with stock Bendix Integral Power Steering Gear box. There is interference with this gear box and the Left side shorty exhaust manifold. I was in the process of intalling a 428CJ when I ran into this obstacle a few years back. My remedy? I was lucky because I did have the original CJ exhaust manifolds and so I just ran the L side CJ and the fit was perfect. I'd already prepped the frame and had bolted on the right side shorty. A bit odd looking but it ran well.
Now, there are other steering gear units run from '65 on up. I can't remember which one my father in law's '71 had. I did a 390 installation for him and had no problems installing the L side shorty HP manifold. This was a few years before I did the work on my '68. So it was a surprise when I ran into this problem.
Just wanted to let you know about an additional footnote you might want to add.
Again, great job. Suitable for color printing! |
| | | | RE: wow!! -- Bob, 05/12/2002
Thanks for the positive feedback. I added the foot note about the Bendix PS, etc.
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| | | | | I'm digging it, too. -- Dave Shoe, 05/12/2002
Nice compilation of info.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | Bob, I believe the 180's are Kustom Tunnel Tubes.. -- kevin, 05/13/2002
hope I will be able to send you pics of a whole lot more too. |
| | | | notch the frame rail on the passengers side? -- Josh, 05/15/2002
On the 68 and your father inlaw's 71 did you have to notch the frame rail on the passengers side? Thanks. |
| | | | | Passenger side interference -- Barry B, 05/15/2002
Mike and I were just talking about this, trying to convince me to go for it. I'm still thinking Mike...
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| | | | | | RE: good shot. -- Mike McQuesten, 05/15/2002
That's a great shot of how the frame can and probably should be done. I don't think there's anyway that you reduce the integrity or strength of your pickup frame at this particular spot. If I were to ever do this again, I'd do it just the way you've shown us Barry.
The way I did both my father in law's '71 and my '68 was to cut the bare minimum but allowing an 1/8" extra clearance for the manifold. Just used a Saws-All and cleaned things up with a file. My father in law drove his '71 with a nicely built 390 for years and no problems. This is the eigth year since I cut the little quarter moon notch in mine and again, no problems. And I don't take it easy on my '68 F 100. The current 390 hauls balls and loads regularly.
Another local friend did the same cut on a '76 F-150 4X4 with 428 and shorty HP manifolds. This truck is used for everything, fishing, camping, hunting, etc. Same friend who used to go deer/pheasant hunting with a beautiful '70 Cyclone Spoiler SCJ/3.91 car. |
| 69GT Torino R code Marti report on EBAY -- Allen, 05/10/2002
This is the Marti info on the car:
I received the production report from Marti Auto and this is how the car breaks down.The car was one of 461 with this paint. 29 with this paint and and interior trim.One of 703 with these engine and transmission codes. One of 2,178 ordered from this DSO. One of 2,712 with am/fm stereo radio. The car was built on December 16,1968 and sold new at Crest Ford in Rocky Mount, North Carolina(now Premier Ford.
I posted Marti GT R code with a 4spd and this engine combo was 581. Not many GT R codes produced wonder what the Q code numbers for the GT's look like. This is the link to the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1826110399&r=0&t=0 |
| Block machining -- Bill Johnson, 05/08/2002
I've taken my 361 FT block to popular local machine shop (they do race engines mostly GM) to have it sonic checked. I asked them about other machine work when I asked about having a torque plate put on it, they said because the bolts are so far from the cylinder that a torque plate wouldn't be helpful. What are your opinions on this statement? Also any suggestions for machine shop in mid Michigan area who specializes in FE engines? Thanks |
| | RE: Deck Plate Yes -- Ray, 05/08/2002
The cylinders on most FE's as you know are not that heavy. Most thin wall block will distort more no matter where the bolts holes are located. It sounds like he doesn't have one, you might want keep looking for a shop that does. Ray |
| Fiberglass -- Rob, 05/07/2002
I hate to bring up a separate subject here, but I was wondering if anyone knows a good place to have a fiberglass hood made, I know im looking for a good bit of money here.. but any suggestions? |
| | MAS (Minnesota Auto Specialties) -- Royce Peterson, 05/07/2002
These guys carry a lot of fiberglas hoods in stock as well as complete one piece front ends and bumpers, doors, whatever. And they are still in the same location on University Avenue in St. Paul, Minnesota where I bought my first set of headers back in 1974.
MAS 651-644-6811 They don't have a website.
Royce Peterson |
| Yet another question, (on oil pumps) -- Josh, 05/07/2002
For the 427 center oiler that I posted the sonic map for, do I want a high volume and high pressure oil pump? Mildon makes one that is both. Or do I just want high volume (standard Melling variety)? Again this is a street motor but I do expect to beat on it now and then! Thanks for the advice as always. Hopefully I will be able to answer questions on this forum some day instead of posting 10,000 questions!
Josh |
| | RE: Yet another question, (on oil pumps) -- John, 05/07/2002
High volume only. I learned the hard way about that. 140 psi at a cold idle and the heads flooded and the pump sucked air in my 428 with solid lifters. many swear by the stock pump, but I am happy with the oil pressure with the high volume pump |
| | RE: Yet another question, (on oil pumps) -- Gerry Proctor, 05/09/2002
It's really a question of your total engine oiling system, Josh. It depends on oil control and finish machining. If your bearings are on the loose side, they you'll probably need a little extra pressure and volume. But you must have good oil return and pan capacity. If the bearings are on the tighter side, then you'll do fine with the stock pump or a high volume pump. You have to look at the entire system to come to a good decision for your engine.
For the record, I'm using the Milodon HV/HP pump, 7qt pan and pickup, an ARP shaft, and FRP windage tray. My bearings are on the loose side and I have good oil return. I've had no problems. My hot pressure at 2k rpm is 65lbs. |
| | | RE: Yet another question, (on oil pumps) -- John, 05/09/2002
Gerry is right...sort of. The only difference between a high volume pump and a high volume/high pressure pump is the peak oil pressure as controlled by the internal bypass spring. I get just under 80 psi max with the engine at idle or above with cold oil, or at 2K and above when hot. The max pressure should be controlled by the spring, but pressure is built up by the resistance to flow in the engine itself. So if you have a loose engine (large bearing clearances), a high volume pump could start bypassing due to the oil gallery restrictions, but with insufficient oil flow at the bearings. A high volume/high pressure pump would cure this. Remember, the pressure you read is at the entrance to the engine from the filter, not at the bearings. It's at the bearings where you want to maintain sufficient oil flow. Typical clearances for a street performance engine are 0.0025". A high volume pump only, will work just fine here. In a solid lifter engine, a stock pump would work fine. A high pressure pump would work for either much larger clearances , which arn't recommended, or at very high RPM's which isn't recommended either (you need a little more pressure to overcome the cavitation where the crank bearing saddle oil holes meet the crank, and where the crank oil holes meet the rod bearings) |
| Are all FE flywheels the same?!? -- Josh, 05/07/2002
I know that McLeod makes an 11 inch and a 12 inch clutch set for the FE. I think the 12 inch is only made for the big in big out toploaders. Anyway, do I need a special flywheel for the 12 inch clutch set or are all FE flywheels the same? Thanks.
Josh |
| | RE: Are all FE flywheels the same?!? -- Bob, 05/08/2002
I've never heard of a 12 inch clutch. The 428s have an 11.5 inch clutch and the 390s have 11 inch clutches.
The 410 and 428 use a different flywheeel than all of the other FE engines due to balancing issues. |
| what was the before/after date for CJ pistons? -- mikeb, 05/07/2002
Got my freebie from Ford, it was built 11/14/68 thanks |
| | You've got rare pistons. -- Dave Shoe, 05/07/2002
That's the first (or second) full day of SCJ production, and since the CJ upgraded to SCJ pistons at this time, you've got pistons which say "428 SUPER" on them.
This, however is the initial design of the SUPER 428 piston, not the common one. While far stronger than the plain CJ piston (which was the same as 428 plain and 428 PI pistons, but with a different dish), Ford apparently ran a quick series of dyno sessons on the indroductory design and came up with even more reinforcements which would be tooled up in time for Christmas.
I'm familiar with the late design, but would be very curious to see the early version of the SUPER 428 piston.
Note that the difference in CJ and SCJ piston was apparently in fit to the cylinder. The SCJ was apparently sized a couple cylinder grades looser. This would have given the SCJ a little more piston-slap sound, but would also let it rev farther without scuffing the skirts.
Note the mistake Ford made in this chart in describing the five 410/428 crank balances. They mistakenly show the 410/428 offered four different crank balances.
I made up the piston story based on what I read in this chart, but it makes sense to me.
Shoe.
[Imaged re-sized by Admin.]
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| | | thanks Shoe -- mikeb, 05/07/2002
n/m |
| | Ford says 11-14-68, door tag 06L -- mikeb, 05/08/2002
and the tag is the original one. Maybe it was scheduled on 11-14? or just a goof? |
| | | Door tag shows the estimated prod. date at time of order.[n/m] -- Mr F, 05/08/2002
n/m |
| | | | with different piston combo's, that could be bad -- mikeb, 05/08/2002
thanks for setting the record straight! |
| | | | | Happen to find a 'build' sheet in this car? [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/09/2002
n/m |
| | | | | | hopefully I can find one, thanks n/m -- mikeb, 05/09/2002
n/m |
| fe build up -- jeff, 05/06/2002
i have a 69 mustang with the 390/4sp/ 3:50 gears.....i want a really torquey engine, i doubt id ever take it over 5500 much ...are the stock heads ok ...keeping in mind better flowing exhaust and after market intake , carb and cam? (i dont mind throwing some money at it long as it responds. (perhaps a 428 crank?) thanks jeff |
| | RE: fe build up -- Mike McQuesten, 05/07/2002
Hey Jeff, you've indicated a really torquey engine and so I'm going to throw out some opinions to get the ball rolling on your project.
First, I'd recommend an Edelbrock Performer along with a carb in the 600-700 cfm flow range. I've had good success with the Edelbrock carbs. Easy to fine tune.
I'd also recommend a cam similar to the stock '66 - '68 390 GT/'67-'68 PI/'68-'70 428 CJ, the C6OZ-6250-B. This cam is available as a new cam from Comp./Crane and others I'm sure. There are lots of ideas on cams but for all around smooth torque & power right to 5,500, this old shaft is tough to beat. Idles nice too at around 600-650 rpm. Might even be able to get it to idle a little lower with good timing/ignition/air-fuel mixture.
You probably have the C8AE-H heads which are excellent for a torquing FE. Use the cam manufacturer's recommended valve springs for the cam.
A good distributor/ignition system which may include a Pertronix system in conjunction with an MSD 6A.
My last opinion is to use FPA headers over the stock 390IP exhaust manifolds. They'll fit well. They'll look good. The sound will be outstanding. They'll let the 390 breath.
And one more thing.....always use a 410/428 crank if you have one. |
| | | Dog gone it Mike....I wanted to tell him about ... -- Nitro, 05/11/2002
The 428 crank! :)) Nutt'n like the torque of a 410 over the 390. All good advice just the same. |
| | | | dunno bout that pertronix -- Rob, 05/11/2002
I never had luck with that pertronix.. i lost around a 1/2 second in the quarter mile with the pertronix and msd 6A..I messed around with the timing and everything.. but my car would run better and stronger with a single point system... but i blame most of it on the coil, I believe my biggest mistake was putting a super stock coil (accel) instead of going to a blaster 2 or something big.... but all the pertronix did for me was give me a little better fuel economy (if any?) and thats bout it.... theres a new pertronix out where they took the bugs outta it i guess, and maybe that'll work.. its about 100 bucks tho..
Now I don't know if the pertronix lost the power cause of the coil.. or just cause it plain stinks.. but since the money ain't a problem, I suggest the MSD Pro billet distributer, it'll set you back about 240 bucks tho, and i plan on buying it soon, but hey, have fun |
| | | | | Pertronix -- RobMcQ, 05/11/2002
There had to be something wrong with your set up to not gain over the points. We have installed a few hundred Pertronix units, and they have ALWAYS resulted in an improvement in performance over points, sometimes very significantly. The "new" Pertronix Ignitor II is an improved design with more features. We still sell a majority of the older design and they work great.
You do need at least 9 volts with the Pertronix, with best results at 12+ volts. Also, you must use a std 1.5ohm coil (not .7 like some coils), with a 40K volt performance coil (Pertronix or another brand) providing the best performance. Also, some folks have deleted or lost the ground wire when installing the Pertronix unit, not good. Distributor timing will change somewhat without the resistance of the points and should be checked. |
| | | | | | RE: Pertronix -- Rob, 05/11/2002
I suspected the problem was in the coil, like i said, I got a full 12 volts over everything and i didn't lose the ground wire, Im guessing its in the coil, im gonna try a blaster 2, or something of the sort... i don't think my accel super stock was 40k volts, so that might be the problem.. i also noticed an increase in power when i took off the msd 6a and ran straight points.. which i found very odd.. but maybe my whole problem is the coil....it was sort of disappointing that everyone i talked to had no problems with these setups... |
| | | | | | | RE: Pertronix -- Bob, 05/11/2002
I have had bad luck wiht the pertronic. Got it on the shelf as the engine pings badly with it and runs fine without it.
Spend over two weeks trying to make it work. Junk as far as I'm concerned. |
| | | RE: fe build up -- William, 05/12/2002
fe crank question on 410? Where can you find these? Aftermarket or salvage? What else does a stock 390 need for this? |
| | | | RE: fe build up -- Bob, 05/12/2002
Check the classifieds. Often on eBay also.
You need 410 pistons, a 410-428 crank and a 410-428 flywheel or flexplate.
You need a 410/428 crankshaft because the stroke on the 390 is 3.78 and the stroke on a 410/428 is 3.98. You need a 410 or 428 flywheel or flexplate because the 390 is an internally balanced engine and the 410/428 is a externally balanced engine. The rods are the same for both engines 390/410.
The piston for the original 410 motor was also used in the 390 truck motor to lower the compression. The 410 and 428 pistons have a 1.66 compression height – that's distance from the pin to top of piston. The standard 390-406-427 compression height is 1.76.
All FE harmonic balancers are neutral balanced so they are not an issue. |
| | | | | RE: fe build up -- carlos, 05/02/2003
Hey guys, sorry to jump in here but i also have a 390 build i am working on and i have some questions. The 410 crank, pistons and flywheel in a 390 block is what i would really like to do but my question is-----do i need to notch the bottom of the cylinders so the longer stroke of the 410 crank won't spin the rods and end up hitting on the rod bolts?? I thank you for your help in advance. |
| | | | | | Notching? -- Royce Peterson, 05/02/2003
The stroke is only .100 difference in each direction(up, down) and no machine work is necessary to the block. Since most 390 pistons are .040" in the hole you can easily cut the required amount off the tops of the piston in a lathe to avoid buying custom forged 410 pistons. I recommend against use of cast pistons in any performance engine because it is easy to make a little mistake when assembling an engine and forged pistons will let you have a mistake without costing the loss of the entire motor.
Things to watch out for in a crank swap are piston to valve clearance and the need to rebalance the entire assembly. Since factory 410 pistons are not available it is mandatory to do a static and dynamic balance job. The additional stroke will put the piston higher in the bore quicker in relation to valve events.
Royce |
| 390,391? -- Roadrunner, 05/06/2002
I have a engine which I assume to be a 390, it has the intake and heads off a 69 390IP on it. Does the ID number D13T stamped on the block mean anything to anyone.
Thanx!
Roadrunner |
| | Re: 390,391? -- Tom, 05/06/2002
ya its a 1971 Block most likley used in a truck may be a 360 or a 352 block not to usre on that stuff |
| '68 Cougar GT-E on "My Classic Car" -- Joel, 05/06/2002
Did anyone see the show this weekend? I was so excited to see a 428cj powered car on TV. I was disappointed that they didn't at least once "light it up". No offense Jim. |
| | RE: '68 Cougar GT-E on "My Classic Car" -- Tim B, 05/06/2002
Apparently Jim had already sold the Cougar and didn't want to trash it publically to the new owner on national TV. Tim B 1969 XR7 428 CJR convertible http://hometown.aol.com/timbrands/Cougar.html |
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