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 |  exhaust ports -- tbolt, 03/29/2002
what is the reason for the verticle rib at the exit of FE exhaust ports ? it seems that it would restrict good flow.Iis it incorrect to remove it? |
|  | It was probably added for structure. -- Dave Shoe, 03/29/2002
This refers to the high-exit "early" style of FE exhaust runner found on all 1958-65 FE heads, and also C6AE-R and CJ heads.
I suspect the rib was added to provide some structure. Perhaps the first heads of 1958 (or preprod) did not have the rib and it was learned they'd warp and leak when this thin area got warm.
All raised exit heads have the extra material which makes up that rib, but some actually "fill-in" the area behind the rib, perhaps to provide a smooth flow.
The CJ heads I've seen have this area filled-in. A few of the C6AE-R (and similartruck and marine castings) also backfill behind the rib, but I've seen these both ways. I tend to find the 1965-earlier heds have the rib, though I suspect you may find some 427LR or 406 castings with it backfilled.
Just posting my hypotheses. I don't have any first-hand info on the vertical rib.
Also, I do believe I've seen whare ths rib is occasionally removed during porting. It would seem to really open up the transition to the header, assuming the header flange was oversized to fit the opening, and assuming the head has sufficient structure when the outside curve of the exhaust runner starts to glow a dim red during a race.
Shoe. |
 | C6 Select Shift vs Dual Range w/390 -- SkipC, 03/29/2002
I have a '66 T-Bird (390) with a very early version of the C6 trans. I have read that later versions of the C6 are stronger and am considering buying and rebuilding a C6 "Select Shift" for my Bird instead of rebuilding the original. Is my shift linkage compatible with the later C6 ? Any other problems with the swap ?
Thanks in Advance, Skip |
| Fairlane -- Mac, 03/29/2002
a guy aabout a mile away has a 1967 Fairlane used to drive he stopped dirving it needs new paint aside fomr that the car is perfect looking it has factory hood scoops on it how rare is this car? |
|  | RE: If you can go get the door code -- David Thayer, 03/29/2002
On the drivers side door, their will be a data plate riveted to the end of the door. You wil have to open the door to see it. If you can read them, carefully write all of them down. If they are old and hard to read, take a pencil and a piece of paper, lay the paper over the number and gently rub over the numbers with the pencil. If you get those numbers, post them here and we will be able to tell how rare the car is.
thanks
David |
| | | RE: If you can go get the door code -- Mac, 03/29/2002
i know what a door tag is my problem is he wont sell it to my dad or my friend so i can get in it either |
| | | | RE: If you can go get the door code -- Mike McQuesten, 03/29/2002
Okay, so you can't get in it. Can you look underneath it? Does it have a 9" rear or an 8" rear end? If it's in decent shape it should still have engine i.d. badges on the front of the fenders. If it has 427, please call me and I will fly there to help you.....if it has nothing on the front of the fenders, it's very likely a 6 popper. Does it say 289? Are there 390 badges there?
So there you go. You want opinions on this '67 Fairlane's value, you have to tell us something about the car. It depends on what the elderly fella has there. Some Fairlanes are just parts cars. Some are drivers. Some are rare and valuable. |
| | | | | Same Ole Mac -- Travis Miller, 03/29/2002
Are you the same Mac that was going to head east and find all the cheap 427's in the junkyards? Your e-mail address is the same.
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| | | | | | RE: Same Ole Mac -- Mac, 03/29/2002
ya same Mac lost my job so much for that its a 9 Inch if its a 427 car ill trade him 93 Lincoln Mark 8 for that car |
| | | | | | | RE: Same Ole Mac -- Mac, 03/30/2002
whats the chances of this car having a 427 in it? |
| | | | | | | | RE: Same Ole Mac -- Mac, 04/01/2002
hello? |
| | | | | | | | | You want odds?!? Slim and none, how's that... -- Dan Davis, 04/02/2002
...more specifically, 455 to 1. Since you live in Vegas, I'll put it in terms you'll understand. You have a 13 times better chance of going into a casino, laying down $10 on one number of a roulette wheel -- one time only -- and walking away with $350.
ONE MORE TIME, repeat after me: "There is no such thing as a cheap or easy to find 427 engine, much less an original 427 vehicle. It is a fantasy." Make this your mantra. Now wake up.
Dan |
| | | | | | | | | | They are out there.... -- kevin, 04/02/2002
it just depends on how much money you have. I know it is frustrating to someone who has not been in the "FE loop" before, and information is not the same as a SBC to come by. Living in the southwest, you have the advantage of sheetmetal that is good compared to the "salt belt", but the fact is there is not nearly as many people or cars either. I can tell you of junkyards years ago that were full of everything and anything Hi-Performance Ford. Hell, there was at least 4-5 Shelby's, 15 or more Mach 1's, some Bosses and that was just in one row. You get my drift? The majority of these yards were picked apart 30 years ago by people like me who knew then that this stuff was going to be hard to find, and racing was at its peak for the FE powered cars. I have not been racing for a few years and will be back at it soon. I stockpiled stuff all my life for this purpose (called nuts by many) and do not have to buy much of anything (hard parts) ever again. But that is an exception to the norm. You have to be realistic on your finances and goals. What exactly are you looking for anyway? Have you saved enough money to be prepared to offer it (cash makes a sale so much easier) when the time comes? Car clubs are an old idea, and being a partner in a racecar can be a real good or bad thing depnding on all factors involved. You can take turns, or just designate people to do their respective jobs. I do believe that you are after a street car though from what I have read of your posts. This Fairlane that you are talking about with two scoops, would not be a 427 (unless someone put it in) unless it has one scoop (glass hood) and is not a "GT". Remember, that if all you want to do is go fast, power to weight ratio is what should concern you most. Cruisin is another story in itself and is the way to "get chicks" if thats your motive. I was not interested in women sitting next to me, as I was in beating the car next to me at the time (thats changed!). Too bad you dont live nearby as I admire your enthusiasm and could use all the help that I can muster up. Keep looking out for that elusive car that is available to the right person at the right time, and you may find it. If you want to come to the midwest, I can show you some cars that are available, in the meantime dont give up, and good luck. |
| | | | | | | | | |  | RE: They are out there.... -- Mac, 04/02/2002
the car is nice but i could care less about it im just looking for a 427 to put in my mom's 68 Galaxie 500 if this fairlane has one ill restore if its factory if not ill put it in the Galaxie thanks for your help guys and look in the back of your Mustangs and Fast Fords for a guy named Bill Thomas he does 9 inch rear end stuff but hes got 4 Shelbys in his Garage sitting there at least 6 years |
| | | | | | | | | | | Kevin...........RE: They are out there.... -- Terry Emo, 04/04/2002
Kevin;
I live in the Midwest & would be interested to know of any 427 cars available. Currently I'm work on a 390 w/427 intake & have considered (if possible) turning the 390 into a 427. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Kevin...........RE: They are out there.... -- Travis Miller, 04/04/2002
Read Hemmings Motor News and have lots of money ready. They are for sale but cost a lot. |
| | | | | | | | | | cheap 427, almost... -- mikeb, 04/03/2002
my great uncle, now deceased,had a 64 427 galaxie. I asked him about his cars once, as he was a die hard Ford man, and he mentioned this one, he sold it to a well off nephew in California back in the late70's/early 80's. He told me if he knew I wanted a car like that he would have given it to me!
However, one of his friends was selling his original owner '69 Cobra, and he turned me on to that in 1985 and its in my garage now. |
| 390 parts -- Jesse, 03/28/2002
can you put parts from a 390 (such as intake manifolds ,camshafts,headers ) on to a 352 with no problems |
| | RE: 390 parts -- Mike McQuesten, 03/29/2002
Yes you should be able to do this without any problems Jesse. There are some variations in certain things, one example is you cannot install a '63 & newer camshaft into a '62 & older 352 without making the fairly simple modification to the cam retention system. But essentially they're the same engine with the 352 having a 4.00" bore X 3.50" stroke while the 390 has a 4.05" bore and 3.78" stroke.
As for headers...make sure you check the casting #s of the heads the headers are coming off of. Then check the casting #s of the heads you want to bolt the used headers onto. There can be some match up problems here. |
| 390 Heads -- Mike, 03/28/2002
THe casting number on the heads on my 390 are C8AE-H, I don't see these listed in my 390 cross referance. Could these be 360 heads? |
| | RE: 390 Heads -- Mike McQuesten, 03/28/2002
Yes they can be 360 heads. They can be 390 heads too. A very common head from '68 cars/trucks into the early '70s pick-ups. They're the short intake port standard FE head. Good all around head with provisions for uni body exhaust manifolds. |
| engine shops -- 410.cougar, 03/28/2002
can anyone recommend a good shop in the san diego area to build my 410.
ive got all the parts just worried about finding sone one thats reasonable and is knowledgeable about FE's |
| | I'd ask Ford clubs around there. Here's a list... -- Mr F, 03/28/2002
http://fomoco.com/index.asp?Dept=5&Page=BigList&Area=CA |
| block casting# C7ME-A.. -- Mike, 03/27/2002
could this possibly be a 428 or is it just wishful thinking and its either a 360 or 390. cylinder heads are #C8AE-H. |
| | All FEs used this number. -- Dave Shoe, 03/27/2002
Any FE from 1967 thru about 1973 could have gotten this number.
It does not tell you whether it got 352, 390, 428, or 427 cylinder cores or jacket cores, and it does not let you know whether it got standard bulkheads, reinforced bulkheads or crossbolted bulkheads. Any of these sand cores could be stuffed into the mold, depending on what the foundry order required for that particular pour.
This block could have been a 330FT, 352, 360, 361FT, 390, 391FT, 410, 427CO, or 428.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | thanks Dave, i verified today a 4.05 bore.. -- Mike, 03/28/2002
its down at the local U-pick scrap yard, i loosened the intake and pulled the pass side C8AE-H head which looked in very good condtion except the exhaust valve looked sunken into the head more than the intake. they will let me buy it as a shortblock for $70 with $16 core charge, i have to remove it of course. are these heads worth the $35 it will cost me to buy it as a long block, their intake ports are awful small? |
| cj carb? C9OF-9510-H list 4345 -- keith, 03/27/2002
found under my work bench, looks good missing choke is it 428cj man. carb thanks keith |
| | RE: cj carb? C9OF-9510-H list 4345 -- Travis Miller, 03/27/2002
According to a Holley book it is for a 1969 Comet or Fairlane 428 Cobra Jet with an automatic transmission. |
| Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- WEM, 03/27/2002
I'm thinking of buying some C4AE heads with 2.19" stainless steel intakes, 1.66" exhaust valves..... will they work?
Thanks Bill
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| | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bore -- Mike McQuesten, 03/28/2002
I'll just jump in here with an opinion and maybe get the ball rolling for you. You're okay with the 1.66 exhaust valve. That's the low-riser/Cobra Jet size and should be no problems with a .030 over 390. But now that big intake valve at 2.19 might be a problem for your cylinder. That's the medium riser intake valve that has no problem opening and closing with a 427 size cylinder. Are these heads already done with these valves? I've heard of these 2.19 Intake being cut down to 2.15 and that works in a 4.13 (428) bore. But if these C4AE-Gs are already done with the 2.19s, well that does somewhat limit you in what you bolt these heads onto.
So now I need help with my contrived answer. There are guys here who know exactly if this'll work. |
| | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bore -- WEM, 03/28/2002
Thanks Mike,
Yep the heads are assembled..... I've been searching around and do believe that the walls will need to be notched. So the question is now do I want to do it? and will I screw it up, LOL?
From Christ's book - "Notches are need only at the top of the bores. They taper down to meet the cylinder wall, about 1/4 in. form the deck surface at the intake valves and about 1/8 in. at the exhausts."
I guess I can do this by placing the head on the block and use the valves (with grease RTV on em) to mark the block deck, and machine alittle more that the mark with a die grinder......
Or screw it and just buy a different head!
Any thoughts? WEM
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| | | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bore -- Mike McQuesten, 03/28/2002
Just some quick thoughts here. What you're proposing to do has sure been done before. It would depend too on how much you expect to gain from the 2.19 intake valve. Is this a pretty radical, far out 390 + .030? If not, why do it? The C4AE heads are fairly common as are their equivalents, i.e., C1AE, C6AE, EDC, etc. They're not hard to find. Then work them with the CJ intake/exhaust valves and you've got a solid, safe combination. Again, just some thoughts and I'm sure someone else will give you some "advice" in the next day or so.
One last thing is how much these C4AE modified heads are being sold for? Not that I need to know but it's just that you have to consider how you want to spend your $. You could probably have a set built with new valves for around $400. That's a guesstimate based on what I've seen done around here. That's not an all out port/polish job but just new valves, guides, grinding, & bowl clean & cutting for the CJ valves. |
| | | | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bore -- WEM, 03/28/2002
Hi Mike,
No its not a radical 390 and the valves are overkill, but the heads are assembled with quality parts, ported and they are reasonably priced. So if I can make em work, what the heck? The've been on the bench and flow like a CJ head, I have stock C8AH-E's right now so they would defenately help.
Later WEM |
| | | RE: C6AE-Rs have my vote. -- Mike McQuesten, 03/28/2002
I think that for what you may be doing WEM, the C6AE-Rs that Barry has linked us to might be the better buy for your 390. No cylinder notching necessary. Also notice that the C6s are all set for uni body exhaust manifolds. That may not be important to you now but it'd be a nice feature later.
The C4AEs "look" nice too and a lot of work in them is indicated. |
| | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- Ray, 03/29/2002
Here's some C4AE that I'm working on now with 2.150 x 1.75 for my 428. Everything is tight, but in some a better deal than using 2.190 x 1.660. I'll be getting flow numbers next week. Ray
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| | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- WEM, 03/29/2002
Wow those look nice! Please post the number that 'll be fun. Also I saw this aution
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1815534484
The guy is addvertising the heads as PI heads, I thought the PI was done by like 65 and their were just a couple of engine options available? Is this guy right?
Later WEM |
| | | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- Bob, 03/30/2002
The 428 PI was manufactured through 1969. It was just a standard 428 with the standard 2.03/1.56 valaves and the Autolite 4100 carb. The 1966 428 PI used the 427 1X4 solide lifter cam. The cam was the same one used in the CJ from 1967-69.
The eBay auction is misleading as those heads are the same as standard 390 type heads except perphaps for chamber volume. |
| | | | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- bear, 04/02/2002
On the PI question we just tore one apart, it had been rebuilt .030 pistons but looks original elsewise. 428 PI, block c7me-a, CJ rods c7ae-b, heads are c6ae, cant find a suffix, 203/156 valves, small 1.88 intake ports, AIR ports, alum c7ae intake, suspect GT cam 270/290 dur 481/490 lift but havent checked yet it just sounds like that one. 173 non-adj rockers.
It makes you wonder, why did Ford waste that great alum intake on this dog of a 428 instead of using the alum intake on 390gt and then 428cj! Duh!
On the heads, if you have a fairlane etc I would agree, cheapest/best set probably c6ae-r, big port & fairlane bolt pattern, then add cj valves. Check out Milan Dragway in Mich some day, there are *390* FE's there running high-11's built with these heads and LOTS of cam, single quad. |
| | | | | | RE: Largest valve set for C4AE heads on a 390 bored 30 -- WEM, 04/02/2002
Hi Bear et...al,
Well I missed on the C6ae-r's but I got a set of C1ae's (I'll get a case of beer to ease the installation pains of the headers! LOL!.) Anyway do you guys think I need to upgrade to the CJ valve? Is it that much more Flow? My combo will be a street driven Torino with a 214 @.05 cam, perf rpm and fpa headers - 3:25 gears etc....
Thanks WEM |
| | | | | | | You didn’t mention a Torino -- Barry B, 04/03/2002
I not sure but you may have a problem with the exhaust. I thought Torinos used the 14-bolt exhaust with the low-exit ports. Your C1 heads have the 8-bolt exhaust with the high-exit ports. Couple of questions, will 8-bolt exhaust w/ headers work in your engine compartment and does FPA make high-exit headers for your application? Sorry I don’t have answers, just questions. |
| | | | | | | | RE: You didn’t mention a Torino -- WEM, 04/03/2002
Yep, they do. And those manifolds are very restrictive and I really want to upgrade them. And your are exactly right on the FPA headers. See
http://www.fordpowertrain.com/Headers.htm
They make 'em for all the bolt patterns, they clear everything and are relatively easy to install (or so I've read). So the plan is too get the heads, evaluate them and if all's well order the headers (I have a RPM manifold ready to go)..... Should be a big improvement.
WEM |
| Taking it apart. -- Royce Peterson, 03/27/2002
I have started the massive job of pulling the C^ from my green 427 Cougar GTE. So far I have:
1. Removed the radiator and fan shroud so the shroud doesn't get destroyed when the motor tilts.
2. Removed the export brace so the Lemans style Cougar valve covers can be removed to access the header bolts.
3. Started wondering about my sanity. This is a pain in the ##!
Got a good look at the valve train for the first time in years. Edelbrock springs, retainers, keepers all look great still. Harland Sharp rollers and home made bronze spacers working well. Here's a picture:
Royce Peterson
 |
| | That's a clean motor. -- Dave Shoe, 03/27/2002
I dig the looks of that thing. Wow!
Shoe. |
| | RE: Taking it apart. -- D. Bellis, 03/28/2002
Hey Royce
I have a couple of questions about the Harland Sharp rockers.The first has to do with durability. How many miles do you have on them, I'm looking for rollers that will last several thousand miles. Second, did you use their shafts or Ford shafts & bushings?
Thanks
Dex. |
| | | H-S Rockers -- Royce Peterson, 03/28/2002
I have the Harland Sharp shafts, cast iron Ford stands and made the spacers on a lathe my self from a scrap piece of bronze bushing material that was originally part of a Convair 240 landing gear. I have a little over 3000 miles on the setup, run a 6200 chip in my MSD. The engine is very expensive and everything was checked and re checked before assembly. Nothing here is half ass in any way, if I had any second thoughts about anything it went to the swap meet sale pile. Even though I bought Edelbrock fully assembled heads I still disassembled them and checked every part myself, then had a three angle valve job done on the heads. Then I disassembled them again and match ported the intake and exhaust ports and cleaned up some flash around the bowls. The heads were assembled with light springs and the engine mocked up with an old set of head gaskets to check valve clearance. Then everything was disassembled, washed and reassembled for the last time. It pays to be very picky!
Royce Peterson |
| | | | RE: Very impressive. -- Mike McQuesten, 03/29/2002
What's really impressive to me is that you drive this GTE! And you're willingness to put it on the line. I agree that it's a fabulous looking engine. Your attention to the details is bound to pay off at the Muscle Car Nats.
I'm looking forward to your reports on how the change over to 4 speed goes, which again I must say I admire your willingness to do this. However, if you decide to stay with the C6 & a rebuild/improve, that'll be interesting too.
There's a guy I see every summer here at the Spokane swap meet that has a 427 GTE. He's from Portland, OR. Some friends and I have had the same space for a number of years. Mostly Ford/Merc stuff. He strolls by every year for a look at our junk and a visit. Very nice guy. Very knowledgable on the '68 GTE and I've learned a lot from him in brief converstaions. I'll have to check some old records for his name. I think his brother has a 427 GTE too. One of them needed a '68 427 block and I know of one here but the owner will not let it go. |
| | | | | RE: Very impressive. -- Royce Peterson, 03/29/2002
Mike,
Could that be Chris Brost and his brother? They are known to me and we have traded parts in the past. They own a variety of exotic Cougars.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | Convair 240 landing gear ?? -- P, 03/29/2002
Awesome installation. Darn, Royce, how many miles do you have on that rig.......and you're taking it apart?? Looks clean as a pin.
P |
| | | | | | RE: Convair 240 landing gear ?? -- Royce Peterson, 03/29/2002
I blew second gear on my C6 while running on a chassis dyno.
Royce Peterson |
| | | RE: Taking it apart. -- John, 03/29/2002
I read a letter in the last Summitt catalog (the Profeesor Overdrive section) and it was about the longevity of Roller Rockers. I was surprised to see they said they would only last 20 to 30 thousand miles. I use Crane solid adjustable rockers with solid lifters because I like simplicity and the "antiqueness" of adjustable valve lash, but I do also like the idea of Roller Rockers. I guess the question I have, is when they fail, do they come apart and leave all kinds of bits of roller needles, the rollers, etc to fly around through the engine? Some produciton cars use roller cams, but I would think that longevity isn't a problem there. What gives? |
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