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 |  fuel -- Geoff, 11/10/2001
i have a 69 428 SCJ with a holley 750. the float bowls keep flooding and just pours fuel into the intake, even after i shut it off. i have messed with the float levels, checked the fuel pressure (4.5-5 psi). i rebuilt the carb and it still floods and backfires out the exhaust. even with the floats lowered all the way fuel is still pouring in. how can this happen if my fuel pressure is okay. anyone have suggestions?? |
|  | RE: fuel -- Phil, 11/10/2001
I had a similar problem with a 390 after I put on a new Edlebrock 750. Turned out I was actually boiling the fuel in the bowls from heat off the intake. Solved it wth a 1" insulator plate under the carb. |
|  | RE: fuel -- Mike McQuesten, 11/10/2001
This is a very typical Holley problem. Well, it has been for me numerous times anyway. So I'm only speaking for myself on this. But it sounds like you've got needle and seat problems OR it could be a bad float. I've had both of these probs. You've mentioned that you've rebuilt the carb so you installed the new n & s. I'd check those floats. I have one from the middle carb of a tri power set that "looks" perfect. But if fills with fuel and you know what happens obviously. So check those floats. Pull 'em out and give 'em a little shake to see if you hear some fuel sloshing inside. If so, there's your problem. |
 | engine paint color -- John W., 11/10/2001
What shade of Ford blue should my Oct 12,68 428CJ ? Also would the R code have had hood insulation? Thanks
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| | RE: Ford Blue.. -- Mike McQuesten, 11/10/2001
The darker shade of Ford "Corporate Blue" is the correct shade-o-blue for your mighty CJ. Don't use the Ford Blue that was used on valve covers/air cleaners for 352-2Vs from '60 to .....'63? It's lighter shade that looks very strange on a '66 and later Ford engine. But I've seen it done too many times.
As for underhood insulation, someone else can answer that. Must be you're talking about a Mustang. Of course, the only vehicle Ford put a 428 Cobra Jet in.
Sorry, not a Mustang hater. I just don't hold them in any higher regard than a Fairlane, Torino, Cougar, or Montego, and Cyclone. |
| | | RE: Ford Blue.. -- Tim B, 11/10/2001
There are a lot of Ford blues out there. 3 from one manufacturer alone. I first used the "too light and bright" blue, then I used the "too dark and deep" blue. I like the Krylon Blue 1909. It's rated at 300 degrees, is that enough? I'm having the air cleaner assembly sand blasted and painted.
There isn't hood insulation on a Cougar 428 CJ with ram air.
Tim B |
| | RE: engine paint color -- Tony, 11/11/2001
I best Ford blue I have found sofar is PPG Delstar
DAR13358 with DX265 flattening agent. Mix just
enough flattener to achieve the right gloss. |
| exhast manifolds -- steve, 11/08/2001
I have 2 exh. manifolds that I'm not sure what they came on originally. Left side manifold# C7OE-9437A
Right side manifold3 C6OE-9430A. Any info. would help. Thanks. |
| | RE: exhaust manifolds -- Barry B, 11/09/2001
’67 and ’68 390 Mustang, Cougar, Fairlane & Comet up to 2-15-68. Left (driver) side manifold # should be 9431. |
| How do I ID a 427 block? -- John M. Sutton, 11/08/2001
You all may remember me recently, when I was trying to find a replacement motor for my truck's 390 (it lunched its camshaft somehow.) I found a junkyard engine with 360 marked valve covers on it from a '73 F350. The block had ribbing casts in the side, and this forum helped me identify it as a 427 block, most likely a Freddie Jones rebuild, because it has Ford .10 rod bearing inserts.
So, how do I identify the engine? It could have a 352 or 390 crank in it, or it may be a full 427.
Any help out there? |
|  | RE: Do The Math -- Mel Clark, 11/08/2001
To my knowledge all 427 service blocks are 4 bolt main equipped. Ford used the same patterns for the basic castings of the 360-390-427 and 428 service blocks.If you don't want to disassemble the engine and measure it you can put one piston at the bottom of the cylinder and pour liquid through the spark plug hole, being careful to know exactly the amount that you are putting in. Then multiply the number of c.c.s poured in and multiply by 8 which will tell you the approximate cubic inch displacement. Or take a head off and check the size and condition of your engine. 1,000 c.c.s equalls approximately 61 cibic inches, you can do the math from here. |
| | | RE: Do The Math -- Royce Peterson, 11/08/2001
I will second Mel's statement about 427 service blocks and add my observation: I have seen dozens of 427's over the years and all have been 4 bolt (crossbolt) mains regardless of application be it marine, agricultural or installed in a vehicle. My opinion is that sightings of so called 2 bolt 427's are really 352, 390, or 360 blocks that use the rear bulkhead mold showing "427 - 66". Any of you who have experience with FE engines know that for the most part the casting numbers are little help in identification. This is just one more confusing FE phenomena.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | 2 bolt 427 -- Alan Casida, 11/08/2001
I just the sonic test results back from Gessford Machine on my 2 bolt industrial 427 block, and they said it is ok to use. The cylinders are thick enough for a .017 bore and then some.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't out there. |
| | | | | Where did you find that block? -- Dave Shoe, 11/08/2001
A 427 2-bolt block is a fun find (great conversation piece - carry pictures if you intend to settle any arguments). I'm guessing you didn't find it in a truck. Where did you dig that one up?
Shoe. |
| | | | | RE: 2 bolt 427 -- Royce Peterson, 11/08/2001
Alan,
Are there any markings on the block like a date code for example? I have seen a bunch of water pumpers and natural gas powered oilfield 427's but all were cross bolted. Was your block originally a 4.23" bore?
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | 2 bolt 427 info -- Alan Casida, 11/08/2001
I bought this block several years ago from a well known Wichita Ks area 427 collector. He had two of them. He said they came off of irrigation pumps in western Kansas. As far as casting numbers go, I was unable to find any when I got it, but I don't have it here to recheck. It does have "427" cast in the lifter valley and 66-427 on the back of the block, which I know does not necessarily make it 427, as I have a 428 block that also has that on the back of the block. The outside of the cylinders were squared off though, like Ford started doing in 66 and it was standard bore 427 when I got it. It also weghs about 20lbs. more than my 428 block. The sonic test did not show any core shift although one cylinder is a little thin.
George said it would be ok, but if it had any casting porosity I might get a pinhole leak at some time, so I am considering having that hole sleeved.I was going to have the crossbolt caps installed, but that is proving cost prohibitive. |
| | | | | | Uhhhhh Ooooohhhhh, hey Royce !! -- P, 11/14/2001
What's all this talk about a 2-bolt 427 ?
Could it be that some of what we were arguing about a while back might need a bit of adjustment? Eating crow is a bit greasy, but I like mine with a red wine!
I'm not going to claim the 2-bolt was installed in the last edition of the 427 Cougar, as published in Autoweek, etc., because you've convinced me accordingly, but I do believe there is a good chance that the industrial machine line took liberties with what they produced for the irrigation fields, and other industrial applications.
The marine 427 is a perfect example. Many are cast as sideoilers, but not milled as such, due to a sideoiler "being a waste of good machinery in anything other than a full race endurance machine". If this variation existed, I can certainly see a two-bolt 427 also being produced for other specialty (lower cost, lower performance) applications.
Ahh well, lemme know if you hear any more about this, I'm interested only in the history of this particular oddity.
Regards, P
Nashvegas, TN
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| | | | | | | RE: Weird motors in Farm Implements -- Royce Peterson, 11/15/2001
Yup, it does sound like a confirmed sighting of a 2 bolt block from some sort of irrigation equipment, strangely enough in my former home state. We used to come across those units from time to time but they were always of the side oiler casting drilled as a topoiler variety with 4 bolt caps. Since my research has all been devoted to Cougar GTE 427's and 68 1/2 428CJ's I am not too surprised that some thing like this has cropped up. I have eaten plenty of crow in my day but this is one of those times to just grin.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | | | RE: Weird motors in Farm Implements -- P, 11/15/2001
"I have eaten plenty of crow in my day but this is one of those times to just grin."
Hahaha, that's great. I must admit, I know what it tastes like.
regards, P
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| | | | | | | | RE: Weird motors in Farm Implements -- Davy gurley, 11/15/2001
My theory is that Ford had a warehouse full of 427 castings when they decided to go with the 385 series(429) engine so they made industrial engines out of them. As soon as they ran out of 427s, they sold the 428s the same way. These engines were set up with 361-391 heads and 2-v intakes, 13 inch clutch flywheels and flywheel housings and 8 qt. oil pans. I ran a bunch of these 428s as water pump motors. All of the 428s had CJ pistons in them so I assume them to be CJ block assemblies. We even tied two 428s together nose to tail when one wouldn't do the job. This resulted in a broken crank on the back engine, so we used a 391 truck crank on the back engine and never had any more problems. When tuned properly they sure sounded good. (819 cu in V-16) We quit pumping water many years ago but I still have a bunch of 428s and a couple 427s. No, they are not for sale |
| | | | I agree. It's probably a plain 360/390 block. -- Dave Shoe, 11/08/2001
Last weekend I picked up another "105" block (from a '76 F150) which has been rumored in books to be the heavy-duty type of FT block which can be bored way out to CJ dimensions. Wrong!
Once again, this block does not have heavy cylinders as found in my genuine "big distrib pilot" FT blocks (which don't happen to have "105" on them). It's got plain old 360/390 cylinders which I've not yet sonic tested, but I assume are good for a .030" or .060" overbore.
The "427" markings on the bulkhead mean nothing about it's displacement. To more accurately determine the displacement potential, you need to remove the core plugs and measure the "coolant" gap between cylinders. Ignore the tight areas of the gaps and focus on the largest gaps you can find. I use drill bits which are graduated every 1/64" to determine what sand cores were used to cast the water jackets.
Roughly speaking, if you can find one spot on the block where you can fit a 1/4" drill bit between the cylinders, its a plain 360/390. If a 7/32" drill bit does not fit anywhere between the cylinders it may have the heavy jackets which define a capacity to go out to 428 dimensions. I still need to check this out more, but if you cannot get a 1/8" drill bit anywhere between the cylinders then you may have a 427 block. I've never checked a 352, and I may check a 330MD this winter. I'll investigate further.
You should expect problems if you bore any FE block more than .030" without a sonic check.
Shoe. |
| | | | | RE: 2 Bolt 427 -- Mel Clark, 11/08/2001
I've had a few friends that swore they had a 2 bolt 427 in their cars but, I've never seen one apart. If I had one I would be very happy to keep it a 2 bolt engine, mainly so I could run a 427 and say it's a 352 or 390 and then blor their door in. Just for grins and giggles. ;-} What a sleeper. |
| | | | | | RE: 2 Bolt 427 -- Davy gurley, 11/08/2001
Several years ago Ford sold a bunch of 427 engines as 'Industrial engines'. I have looked at several and they may or may not have crossbolts. All of them were side oiler blocks that were not finished. The identifying factor is the boss cast into the lower left side of the block down where the clutch pivot bracket bolts on. I have successfully bored 2 of these 050 and made stroker motors with 428 cranks. One is currently in my 66 F-100 and really makes an interesting ride. These engines used to be found in the Texas panhandle up through Kansas as water pump motors. I have not seen any for sale for a long time though occasionally a 428 will be found. These are 428 cj blocks. Ford quit selling these in the early 80s when they went to 460 industrials. These are interesting also, but that is another story. |
| Timing recommendations for low compression 390? -- Charles, 11/08/2001
I am putting together a 390 for my truck that will be used for hauling/towing. Empty truck is 6700 lb. 4.88 gears, 0.85 OD (2570 rpm at 60 mph). Pistons are the 390/410 low compression truck (Sterling 381P), cam is a Crane dual pattern 260-2H. Haven't measured my head volume yet, but I'm assuming my CR will be around 8.0:1. I plan to run 87 octane gas.
I am not familiar with the tolerance of the FE combustion chamber to advance and octane. Any recommendations for initial timing, distributor recurve, and vacuum advance? I have an adjustable vac.advance canister on a stock distributor with a Pertronix ignitor. Thanks. |
| | RE: Timing recommendations for low compression 390? -- richard, 11/08/2001
i woud start with 10 degrees initial and 36-38 total timing. this does not include vacuum advance. i would also have the total mech timing in by 2500 -2800 rpm.
you shouldnt have any detonation problems. if you do then back the timing off 2 degrees. that should cure it although better would be going up a grade of fuel. |
| | What head castings are you using, Charles? -- Paul M, 11/10/2001
Just curious, as I want to see how different combos work out. Also, what's your induction setup, ie; intake, carb, etc.
I'm rebuilding a 390 for my F100, and want a good street engine, that can still pull some weight; trailer, boat, etc. |
| | | RE: What head castings are you using, Charles? -- Charles, 11/10/2001
Don't know... I will look and post back. They have the 2.03/1.56 valves. I have a stock Ford 2-barrel carb and iron intake although I may get an aluminum one if they are available and affordable.
In a half-ton just about any 390 combo should work... I'm lugging around a lot of weight (6700 empty) and would like to tow a trailer grossing up to 9000 on occasion. |
| 428 timing -- Mike Miller, 11/07/2001
Hey FE drag racers.....at what degree of distributor advance will a 428 run the best? Looking for lower et`s and lots of horsepower.....Can anyone help me out ? Thanks |
| | RE: 428 timing -- Mel Clark, 11/07/2001
Depending on fuel quality and compression ratio, 38 to 42 degrees total advance works for me. |
| 390 Distributor -- Barry, 11/07/2001
Hi,
I have a '67 'S-Code' Mustang, and someone, some time has put a Unilite distributor into the old 390. I presume this wasn't standard. It doesn't like running too well on this stuff we call fuel these days, and I can only think that it's advance curve is too much. Apart from just retarding the spark until it stops knocking, can anyone tell me the part number off the tag on a standard 390 Mustang distributor. Are the Mustang 390 distributors different to any other 390 distributor? I'm in Australia, so finding one may be a problem. |
| | RE: 390 Distributor -- Royce Peterson, 11/07/2001
The original distributor (basic P/N 12127)for your '67 390 GT was identified by C7AF-E (standard trans) or C7MF-G and C7SF-A for automatic trans cars without Thermactor emission system. The cars with Thermactor emission system received C7MF-H or C7SF-B regardless of transmission. There is no important difference in all these distributors if you are willing to set the advance curve to compensate for today's substandard fuel. Likewise, any other vacuum advance distributor for an FE will work fine for street use. I recommend a stock distributor with a Pertronics electronic conversion.
Good Luck,
Royce Peterson |
| | | RE: 390 Distributor -- Mel Clark, 11/08/2001
Agreed! Petronix is the way to go. Why don't you check the basic advance curve while running the engine and watching the timing marks? You may find that the advance curve is way off, with too little or too much advance where you set your initial timing would be critical. I always check to be certain that the advance mechanism is working and then set my timing when fully advanced over at 2,000 or 2,500 rpm. If the engine dosen't want to start, then there's a problem that must then be diagnosed. |
| | RE: 390 Distributor -- John M. Sutton, 11/08/2001
Barry: Just as a precaution, you might want to check the timing chain slack to make sure it is tight. Too much slack can really affect timing curve checks, and one which is too loose can indicate a chain which may have jumped a tooth. You didn't mention other problems, but I would check out the chain first before you go replacing the distributor, just to make sure. It only take a few minutes, and could save you a lot of frustration down the road. |
| | | I run the Unilite conversion, too. -- Dave Shoe, 11/08/2001
I recommend the Pertronix to anyone converting, but the Unilite conversion works great, and it's easy to switch back to points with a screwdriver should should it burn-out on the road. I've run a couple Unilite kits maybe 15-20 years and never had any problems - though I don't recommend using a racing coil with a Unilite unless you use an external ignition amplifier like an MSD unit to take the load off the Unilite.
I don't know much about advance curves, so I can't help you there. Just wanted to let you know that if you've got a Unilite and a fairly stock coil, it should work fine.
Shoe. |
| | I am also in Aust. and have e mailed you. nm -- ANDY, 11/08/2001
nm |
| 351c-4v rebuild, any suggestions? -- george, 11/07/2001
ive just had my engine rebuilt as follows:
double roller timing chain
comp cam 270H hyd.cam
9.0-1 compression speed pro hyperetectic pistons
The rockers, lifters,pushrods are stock motorcraft and i plan to keep the factory intake/ carb combo.(unless someone can talk me out of it )
does stock ignition vs. electronic H.P. gains warrent the extra cost .
and ,what about valve float , should i get anti-pump lifters since everyone say this motor runs higher rpm due to the bigger 4v heads
while we are at it , lets blow this sucker with 6.5 psi |
| | You might try the FoMoCo General forum. -- Dave Shoe, 11/07/2001
This forum mainly deals with the FE engine family, not so much the 335 engine family, of which your 351C is a part.
The General forum is at:http://www.fomoco.com/forummain/
Shoe.
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| | RE: 351c-4v rebuild, any suggestions? -- Tom, 11/08/2001
why are ya gonna keep them crappy non flowing intake
get a Edelbrock Torquer and a holley 700 double pumper and yes it is worth it to get a electronic ignition
i forget who makes em fits under yer distruibtor cap
but just for safe keeping i keepo a set of points rotor and condensor and all that in my trunk |
| 390 Question -- Tom, 11/07/2001
Hey i can get a 390 From a 68 Galaxie i got no idea what is wrong with it the guy was pullin it got mad and left junkyard picked it up i can get it for 150$ is it worth it? |
| 351c-4v with c4 into 1957custom -- GEORGE, 11/07/2001
Im dropping in a mach-1 drive train in the 57 ford 2 door coup. I want to know who has done this before!
looking for trans adapters and/or motor mount kits. Also, i put in a comp cam 270h
and i kept the stock 4v intake and 750 carb with full length headers (if they fit. I hope )
good, bad, or ugly?. |
| | RE: 351c-4v with c4 into 1957custom -- Tom, 11/07/2001
well if ya wanna wake yer car up some junk that 750 anbd get a 700 Double Pumper holley dont make em anymore try Demon or try Ebay for a rebuild also dunno if headers will fit also why do ya got a c-4 tranny? |
| | | RE: 351c-4v with c4 into 1957custom -- george, 11/07/2001
its the trans. that came with the mach-1 |
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