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| Where to get a new tall water outlet for sidewindr -- Chuck Brandt, 05/14/2002
Does anyone know where to get a new tall water outlet just like those from ford. I think they were used on sidewinder intakes as well as some tripower and dual quads. They are taller to clear the intake runner. Here is a picture of a used one I bought, it's just kinda grungy.
Thanks, Chuck
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| | | RE: Where to get a new tall water outlet for sidewindr -- RobMcQ, 05/14/2002
After Ford got real greedy with the price on theirs, we had a reproduction made-as well as the short version. We use the tall one on all of the PI and multi-carb intakes as well as some aftermarket intakes. It is all correct, including the long tube below the threads that is needed to reach the coolant. You can e-mail me, or call 303-762-8298. Rob McQuarie Blue Oval Performance |
| | | | RE: Where to get a new tall water outlet for sidewindr -- Chuck Brandt, 05/15/2002
Thanks Rob, I'll call you later today!
Chuck |
| | | | RE: Where to get a new tall water outlet for sidewindr -- Chuck Brandt, 05/20/2002
Thanks again Rob, I got them today and they look great.
CDB
[Image edited for size by Admin.]
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| Performer RPM Cam -- DeanGT428, 05/14/2002
Last weekend I started the 428 in my Fairlane up for the first time. For some background info, the engine is bored .030 over, forged pistons, 406 PI rods, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, intake, and cam and a Holley 750 carb. Just by viewing the numbers on the cam, I expected the engine to have a rough idle, but it does not. In fact, it idles jus slightly rougher than stock. Anyone else have any experience with this combo that might be able to comment? Thanks, DeanGT428 |
| All right guys, what is your opinion on Glyptol? -- Dan Davis, 05/13/2002
I am having a "discussion" with a friend who wants to use the "olde-tymie" method of painting the inside of his block to aid oil return. I told him that I have heard that Glyptol-coated blocks tend to run hotter, something that he will not want on a 0.040" over 390. Any experienced users out there?
Cheers, Dan |
| | Tree sap...... -- kevin, 05/14/2002
It is not a good thing to have inside. I dont remember anyone having heat problems, bu there is the chance it can come loose. All the Chevy engines seemed to have a chunk here or there when I pulled them apart. Polish it instead, (unless he's too lazy) this is the omly way to keep a clean engine. There is epoxy based electric motor paint that works better anyway. After acid dipping, or blasting, I sprayed it on and baked them in oven. They are impervious to anything except laquer thinner and stand up to 300 degrees no problem. |
| | | RE: Tree sap...... -- John, 05/14/2002
I agree with Kevin. It's Russian Roulette putting anything inside a block except what's supposed to be there. Glyptol cracks when disturbed, which means it can come off, and that's not good. Oil return improvements are good, but not that way. Reduction of oil to the heads helps, a larger pan helps, enlarging the oil drain back galleries in the heads as headbolts partially block them is good. All kinds of mods to prevent oil starvation (because that's what its really all about) are good. But no paint or glyptol or anything. I suspect that the work needed to prepare a block "properly" for paint isn't much different than polishing it. And to see if I'm right or not, dare your frined to try the polishing. Once he's done, wether I'm wrong or right, he will be better off. |
| | | | Ha, good idea. I am trying to convince him not.. -- Dan Davis, 05/14/2002
...to trash a perfectly good FE engine. I am sure I will succeed as I can be persuasive!
Thanks, Dan |
| Block Check -- Paul G., 05/13/2002
Hello everyone, I have finally gotten the engine out of my truck and have now removed the pan. The engine is a D4TE reverse 105 block. I can fit a 14/64 drill bit between the bores in some places but not in others. I cannot fit a 16/64 anywhere. Also, I have heard reference to reinforced main webbing on some of these blocks, Does it look like what you see in this picture. Also, it must have been rebuilt at some time because the rods have the C6AE part number. The engine was in the truck when I bought it and still ran pretty strong. But I have no idea of its history. 1. I am curious to know whether or not this is a good candidate for sonic testing? and 2. What kind of cam and intake reccomendations can you all make for the following project? Engine will be going into a 69 Cougar XR7 convertible with a C6 and a 3.70 trac-lok. I have a set of mildly exhaust ported C7AE heads that I plan to use with headers and dual 2.5" exhaust through Dyno max superturbos. I already have the headers, trans, rear, radiator and exhaust. As well as a Demon 625 carb. I would like to build a stoplight racer that will still be well mannered enough for the sunday morning cruise. What is the max horsepower I can expect to get from the C7AE heads, while still operating between idle and 5500? If the engine will go to 4.13 I plan to use a 428 crank. I already have a 428 flywheel, so the swap should not be that hard. Any and all ideas are welcome! Sorry for the long post, but you guys always give such good info I fugured I'd ask all my questions at once. Paul G. |
| | Sounds like a 360/390 block. -- Dave Shoe, 05/15/2002
It does sound sorta like a healthy 360/390 block that may be good for .060" overbore or slightly more, sonic permitting. If you plan to bore and build-up, a sonic map is worth it for peace of mind with regards to core shift.
I have a 428 "A" block which will accept a 14/64 in a spot or two, but will accept a 15/64" nowhere. The few 360/390s I've checked will typically accept a 16 or 17 in a location or two, block dependent.
My 428 "A" passenger block does not have reinforced mains, and neither does your block. This should not be a concern. There is a semi-substantiated rumor that Ford (and all other manufacturers) reduced the tensile strength of the cast iron used in their engine blocks by almost 10% as the muscle car era was replaced by the Arab oil embargo and resulting recession, so it's possible the D4 block was made of a slightly different iron. Again, this would not likely be cause for adjustment of your build-up plans, just rumor passing. I'll follow up as I learn more.
C6AE rods could very easily be factory-installed rods and should be considered street-race rods after installing ARP bolts and then giving them the requisite reconditioning for the new bolts. All 390 rods since mid-63 are great rods, don't sweat the forging numbers.
What kind of headers do you have. If they're Hookers they won't port match the heads and will leak along the bottom of the gasket. Most headers don't port match these heads, so beware. You'll need some "low-flange FPA" or equivalent "emissions era" type headers.
A 428 crank will buy you an extra 5-10 horsies and 15 foot pounds, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle. The 390 crank is stronger (not that it matters), and you've already got it. The 390 crank will rev out farther and sound meaner doing it.
The "full emissions" heads are always worth an easy 400HP (not considering any specific engine), and are generally more efficient than the large runner heads at the lower RPMs. Your 390 should readily make this kind of power. I'd run an Ed Perf RPM intake with 'em. Alternatives include the 427MR/428PI intake.
Since .060" over tentatively looks more appropriate for the block than .080", I'd suggest 390+.060 Silvolites, or something equivalent. 428 factory pistons are reinforced slightly more than 390 factory pistons, so I'd opt for the aftermarket if revving beyond 6000 is in the cards. If you plan to play in the 5500 range and below, factory cast pistons will last forever, though a properly selected 5500 limit will likely have you cammed a bit too mildly to hit a solid 400 flywheel horsies. With the shorter 390 stroke crank you can reliably rev and extra 300-500RPM above the more flexible 410/428 crank, and this buys the missing horsepower and a frightening exhaust sound.
This is just preliminary BS. A sonic map will tell you more abbout the block. It sounds like you've got the basics for a good running FE. I don't recommend cams, as others are better at this than me. I will recommend that you MUST have rockershaft end support stands to run this motor. If you don't buy them, you'll soon learn why they were recommended. Rockershaft dowel kits are also a nice option with a build like yours.
JMO, Shoe. |
| | RE: Block Check -- Barry B, 05/15/2002
Paul, looks like your block has the extra webbing for the mains, it's the extra rib in the middle. Compare yours to the pics here:
http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-block.html |
| | | Your right. -- Dave Shoe, 05/15/2002
I counted one rib, but there is a second rib below it.
Sorry about the mistake.
Shoe. |
| | | | RE: Your right....also? -- Paul G, 05/15/2002
Thanks Dave and Barry, The block will take a 14/64 in some places but will not go any higher. I am going to assume that it a decent candidate for sonic check, and not just a disposable 390. Also Dave, you mention RPM ranges in your post. I am curious, what is the max usable RPM I can expect to get from the C7AE heads. I have not posted very often, but I have been carefully reading the forum for some time. All the information I have read led me to believe that the small port heads would not flow well enough to get above 5500 with any HP gains. I would like to build the motor to maximze the capabilities of the existing components (heads & block) If there is a given max rpm the heads will flow to, Then I will select a cam based on that number. The heads have a slight cleanup on the exhaust side, but no significant porting. If the heads will support 6000-6500 rpm, then I'll work towards that. I plan to use the C6 rods with ARP fasteners and balance the rotating assembly. Aside from the block and heads, I have no limitations except that I would like it to be streetable. If being streetable means keeping it below 5500 then thats what I will shoot for. Thanks for all the great information!! Paul G. PS-Dave, the 427 blueprints are really cool. The framed copy will go nicely with the seven foot slide rule that hangs in my kitchen. |
| | | | | The RPM ceiling depend on the cubes. -- Dave Shoe, 05/15/2002
In the case of C7 heads, a small displacement engine will flow less thru the runners than a large displacement engine at a given RPM, so I would think you'd be able to rev higher with fewer cubes. My info is only opinion, not based on direct experience.
C7 heads appear to be far more streamlined than the large runner heads, and they worked really fine at the higher revs on my three 1969-428PI engines (C8AE heads - basically the same as C7). It adds up in my mind to be a head that will make up to 400 horsepower with no problem in any engine, small or large displacement. Much beyond that, the inferences I've been reading is you've got to start porting.
If they start wheezing at 5500RPM in a 428, it'd seem logical that they'd start wheezing at 6000RPM in a 390 and 6700RPM in a 352.
The ring travel speed difference between a 428 and 390 would suggest that revving a 428 to 5500 is like revving a 390 to 5800. The stronger 390 crank may be happy to run to 6000 RPM, and would likely make only a little less horsepower than the slower-spinning 428, while sounding all the more menacing because it's got a cam designed to run in a 500RPM higher band and rear gears to compensate for the reduced torque compared to the 428.
I now agree that you've got a block with some potential there. It'll be a while before the FE forum gathers together enough data to make more formal determinations, but since a 15/64 bit won't fit anyplace, your block's cylinders are much like my 428 "A" block..
Shoe. |
| Edelbrock Heads&Intake for 390 Inaboid -- Boidman Of Atl, 05/12/2002
Ever since i came across the aluminum heads and intake for the early 390FE engines,i have been pondering the decision to either buy them or strain moan and groan my lead weight stock intake and heads back on my 62 bird after they have been cleaned up and redone.Would there be anything i could use on the engine if i were to do this(stock exhaust manifolds(no room for headers),valve covers,autolite 4v carburetor,aircleaner(dont like the suuuuuuuu sound open elements make) Also,since i do not really want to use the roaddraft tube,is there a pcv kit i can adapt to the 62.I have decided againts buying a rollercam and lifters for this car since it is listed to give a fair idle(meaning vaccum robber) at the crane site. |
| Harland-Sharp Rocker arms -- Boydster, 05/12/2002
I am getting ready to buy Harland-Sharp roller tip rockers for a '67 410 with an Edelbrock Performer RPM cam. Just wondering if anyone has used a similar setup and had to buy taller valve covers. Their website basically says to dry fit the stock valve covers to see if you need taller ones. I would like to know ahead of time so I can get everything I need, thanks. |
| FE Concept Engine -- Fox, 05/12/2002
I have acquired a 67 390 2v engine. Want to totally restomod my 68 mustang and I am looking for ideas for the power plant. I have the concept, but I need ideas. I would like the engine reliable....I don't want to be under the hood every frew days tweeking stuff. I want to try and incorporate fuel injection for better gas milage if it is possible. I also want to be able to stuff these new camaros...they piss me off...so performance is also a need. Are there any ideas on how to do this?? I woudl like to make the car a daily driver so the MPG is a big thing. I really have had bad luck with carbs....so that is why I like Fuel injection.
I plan to put a Tremec trans with a Lakewood Bellhousing behing the engine, and I also want a 3.5:1 equilock rear end. I hope you guys can help... |
| | Fuel injecting an FE -- Royce Peterson, 05/12/2002
I looked into this and come up with $3200.00 as an approximate budget for me to install a throttle body, sequential EFI system.
If you can't tune a carburetor this job is too technical for you. Carbs are way simple. They are also reliable and cheap. Not being insulting here, just honest.
Royce Peterson |
| | You want a Traction-lok, not an Equa Lock. -- Dave Shoe, 05/12/2002
Equa Lock is the limited slip rear used in 8" and 9" differentialed cars through midyear 1968, Traction-lok was used from mid-1968-on. (Note that the 8.8" Traction-lok is based on the same engineering concepts as the 8"/9" but is a completely different product).
Equa Lock offered a constant friction differential between the rear wheels. It was a bit much on slippery corners and not quite enough on hard dragstrip starts.
Traction-lok is different in that it varies the friction coupling between the rear wheels based on how much torque is being delivered by the driveshaft. On slippery corners when minimal throttle will be used the coupling is low, allowing the rear wheels to spin easily a different speeds and thus preventing slip. On hard, straight drag starts, the coupling between rear wheels is at a maximum.
Traction-lok's reduced coupling at low driveshaft torques is achieved by the use of a small coil spring which applies only a small force to the clutchpack. This will offer slight coupling in sand and snow when the traction conditions only allow slight traction from each wheel anyway. At high driveshaft torques the spider gears inside the differential provide a ramming effect against the axlegear, and the axle gear presses on the clutchpack, forcing a hard lockup.
Fuel injection would be a good idea, but a Royce mentioned, this is an area where you need prior knowledge if you expect good results. Most FE folk opt for carburetion because it's cheap and easy to dial in. You can make more power with a properly installed fuel injection system, but only if the whole engine is properly wired and only if the right type of fuel injection is selected and if job is done just right.
One thing you'll want to determine is the casting number on the heads. Most likely they are the C6AE-U or C7AE-A castings which are "full emissions" castings with exhaust ports positioned lower on the head than 1958-65 heads and smaller "velocity-type" intake runners than the 1958-65 heads. There's about a 30% chance you've got C6AE-R head castings which are a "transition emissions" design. By "transition", I mean it contains some features of pre-emissions head castings and also has some features from the emissions era. C6AE-R was only available on about 1/3 of the FEs and only in 1966-67, and the engines appear to be selected at random.
"Full emissions" and "transition emissions" heads do not use the same type of header. In some cases you'll want to use different intake manifolds, so you'll need to pay attention to details here. Both types of heads will make 400 flywheel horsepower with little effort, but the transition head will tend to breath better as the RPMs climb and horsepower moves beyond 450. If horsepower moves beyond 450, you're going to have a high-revving hot-cammed engine with mediocre gas mileage. Since you're looking for fuel efficiency, 450HP is likely not a target and either head type will likely work well for you.
If you are looking for extra horsepower without driveability or mileage issues, you may want to look at the expense of a mild roller cam. It'd probably be cheaper horsepower than fuel injection, and the efficiency of a modern-profile roller cam would make sense if you went the fuel-injection route. Since a roller cam is probably not in the budget, I won't go into many details - not that I know all that many details anyway.
Most likely, you'll want an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake. This is ideally suited to a 390 with either type of head. Don't even think of buying a "performer" or "performer 390" intake - they're not performance intakes.
Hooker headers will only work with C6AE-R heads (and 427 and CJ and 1965-earlier heads) because the Hooker header flange is designed to match the high-positioned exhaust port. FPA makes a tri-Y design in two styles, one fits the high-positioned exhaust port, the other fits the low-positioned exhaust port. Note they semi-erroneously call the "low positioned" header the 390GT header. It's true it'll work on all 390GT heads, but if you have an FE with C6AE-R castings you really should get the 427/428CJ headers from FPA (www.fordpowertrain.com). FPA headers fit great and are reputed to be particularly high in quality. They're not cheap, but cheap FE headers disappeared 15 years ago.
The stock connecting rods are fine performance pieces. They become great street performance pieces when ARP bolts are installed, and are then resized to match the higher clamping force the new bolts provide. The cranks are a famously strong nodular iron design. The blocks should be sonic-mapped prior to boring, just to be sure you've got minimal core shift. If anybody tells you the C6, C7, or C8 casting number which might be on the side of the block means it's a 428 block, thell them they're full of it. This was an incorrect rumor started long ago and popularized in more recent books.
This scratches the surface. Hope it helps.
Shoe. |
| | | EFI MORE Power NOT! NO! NEVER!. -- OzFE, 05/13/2002
EFI wont make any (maybe 0.5%) power. It will allow you to tune a broader torque curve. It will allow you to run lean under cruise (maybe some economy) It will allow you to tune around many little idosynchrosies. It will allow could starting etc like you would beleive.
But in itself it is no better than a set of well tuned carbs. And there are SOOOOOO many wires to try and hide. |
| | | Exhaust ports god (good) heads bad heads -- OzFE, 05/13/2002
Here in Australia you dont see a lot of FE parts. But I happen to be into FE's.
Well I would like to know more "facts" about the stock cyclinder heads. My head porting, engine building experience leads me to seek FE heads that DONT have the savage lip under the exhaust seat (like a seat insert hanging in free air). And you definately can add inserts to these heads for inserts and unleaded fuel. FE heads seem to be very restricted by the exhaust. The "better" (more portable) exhaust ports seem to come with the smaller intake opening. They also seem to be associated with heads that have air-injection bosses. I've found that the bigger intake openings dont add anything to air flow and the port deeper near the pocket and turn seem to be the same as the small opening heads.
What are the best stock heads to seek out I dont want to know about exotics, but heads that are good and will respond well to CJ sized valves
DT2 ? is a number I've heard mentioned
Any comments tips or figures
thanx |
| | Fi fe -- Ed Foral, 05/15/2002
You can take suitable a carb intake, have the injector bungs welded into it, use aftermarket fuel rails, and use a Mustang harness and computer with few alterations to the harness. Once it is functioning, you should not have to mess with the injection system on a regular basis. This is by no means a budget build for you , since you would be farming out the work, but it is an option.
Ed |
| Oil pressure question -- Robb, 05/11/2002
After 9 months of runnin fine, the oil pressure lite on my recently rebuilt engine has begun to come on at idle (like sitting at a stop light). The engine is a 390 out of a 68 LTD. We have it in a 65 Galaxie 500, C6 tranny. This just happen the other day. I replaced the oil sending with a new one but with same results. This happen only at idle not during normal driving speed. Any help would but great. |
| | RE: Oil pressure question -- Bob, 05/11/2002
I have a mechanical gauge that I connect temporarily so I can see what the oil pressure really is. I have gotten more than one bad "new" sending unit although not lately. |
| | | RE: Oil pressure/Maybe bypass stuck open? n/m -- Ray, 05/12/2002
n/m |
| | RE: Oil pressure question -- John, 05/13/2002
The oil pressure sensor is the usual culprit. The little beehive shaped housing has a diaphram inside it, and they eventually can spring a small leak. As the pressure equalizes on both sides of the diaphram, low oil pressure is indicated. You can teporarily cure this by drilling a small hole in the beehive housing near the electrical contact. You will get a small oil leak, but it will confirm the problem. For an "idiot" light, a switch is used instead. The switches are far less prone to failure. Knowing this, and because you changed the unit with no success, I'd say you actually do have a reduction in oil pressure. This is not good. It is almost always caused by worn main bearings. Since the engine was recently rebuilt, there are many other things that could be the cause, such as a oil gallery plug that worked loose (it amazes me the pressed in ones stay as it it). It could be a loose oil pick-up (very common) or a loose oil pump (both items should be loctited during assembly and lockwired if possible). So, what to do? First verify the low oil pressure with a mechanical gauge against the oil pressure switch's specs (usually illuminates around 6 psi). If the oil pressure is low, then remove the pan and check the oil pick-up and oil pump. If everything is still all right, remove the valve covers and check the ends of the rocker shafts for the pressed in plugs and the rocker stands for tightness. Still ok? Remove the intake manifold and check all the oil gallery plugs you can locate. Still nothing? Remove the engine and check the rear oil galllery plugs. Last....strip the engine down and face the rebuild scene. Some people may try to tell you that a clogged oil filter is the culprit, but oil filters have a bypass in them to allow circulation if plugged or if the oil is very thick and cold. My similiar problem was found to be a cracked block that allowed antifreeze to mix with the oil and ruin the main bearings. Hope your problem is less severe. |
| | | RE: Oil pressure question -- Robb, 05/13/2002
I know what you mean John, we will try the machanical unit first to see where we're at. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the preassure should read around 30-32 psi? |
| | | | Oil pressure specs -- John, 05/14/2002
OK...I'll give you some specs to go by, but first, oil pumps deliver more oil the faster they spin until the bypass valve opens. The pressure is a function of the resistance to this flow by the engine. A very tight engine may achieve maximum oil presure at an idle even with hot oil. That's why in some cars, you never see the gauge change once you start it. But in these FE's, you will see a difference between oil pressure at an idle and the max oil press at high revs. So, here's what my 1966 Ford facotry manual says:
Oil hot @ 2000 rpm:
240 35-60 psi 427 40-55 psi 428 Police Interceptor 45-70 psi All other 35-55 psi
By "all other", they seem to mean all other engines covered in the manual including the 390, regular 428's, 289's, etc.
Now for my 428 solid lifter engine, here's the specs I've found:
High Volume Pump:
Cold idle 75 psi Hot idle 22 psi Cold revs 75 psi Hot revs 75 psi 2000 rpm hot 55 psi
High Volume/High Pressure Pump
Cold idle 140 psi Hot idle 22 psi Cold revs 140 psi Hot revs 90 psi 2000 rpm hot 55 psi
Note: I don't use the high pressure pump any more!
When my engine started to show reduced oil pressure because of the worn main bearings, I was getting:
Cold idle 60 psi Hot idle 13 psi Cold revs 62 psi Hot revs 62 psi 2000 rpm hot 45 psi
My bearing clearances were originally blueprinted as close as possible to 0.0025". They were down to the copper in places when I stripped the engine down.
Hope this can be of help.
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| | RE: Oil pressure question -- Robb, 05/15/2002
Well, I installed a mechanical unit today and changed the oil filter anyway to my dismay, I was getting a reading of around 22-25 psi @ 2500 rpm. So I have to decide weather to yank the engine right now or try some of John's suggestions which will probably lead up to that anyway. |
| 67 2V heads -- Rob, 05/11/2002
I acquired a set of 67 2V heads off of a LTD and I was wondering if these would give any more performance compared to my 390 4V heads off of my Tbird... I really need these for the bolt pattern on the headers, but I was wondering if I'd get any other gain out of them.. any information will be appreciated..
Rob |
| | RE: 67 2V heads -- Bob, 05/11/2002
What are the casting numbers on both the new and old heads?
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| | | RE: 67 2V heads -- Rob, 05/11/2002
its down my garage, give me a couple days to post it up.. thanks |
| | There really aren't any '2v' heads in '67. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/12/2002
n/m |
| scat cranks for FE engines -- jeff, 05/10/2002
not really a question but i noticed "Scat" will be releasing cranks (strokers to) for FE engines ...anyone know more about this ? jeff |
| | RE: scat cranks for FE engines -- Terry Emo, 05/16/2002
Jeff;
I've heard about the Scat cranks and I'd like to get one installed in my FE, but I don't have any info yet. |
| | | Jeff...Info on scat cranks for FE engines -- Terry Emo, 05/16/2002
Jeff;
I just called Brian at Scat Enterprises and he said, "currently there is nothing for the FE 390, (there are some products for the 460 engine), BUT to try back in 30-60 days because there ARE some products (and complete assemblies), under development for the FE 390 series". This is NOT a verbatum quote from Brian, but essentially what he said.
So it looks like some of the Mustang articles we've read are just a little premature on the actual product from Scat (FE 390 crank/stroker kit), being in the marketplace.
I hope this is an accurate translation of what Brian saId.
Here's a link to Scat's website: http://www.scatenterprises.com/ |
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