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 |  C4AE-G- DATE 4B14 & 4B17 Heads? -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Still waiting on my FE book to identify these numbers.
I assume they are 390 heads. I know they are 3 days apart in their casting dates at least.
It seems like **AE means 390. Am I right or am I wrong like usual?
What does the "G" mean? Is this kind of stuff in the tutorial on this site that I cant seem to find?
Thanks
signed,
Ignorant but learning really really slow |
|  | RE: C4AE-G- DATE 4B14 & 4B17 Heads? -- charlie, 12/06/2001
Your heads are from either a 352 or 390. They are 71-74 cc chamber heads, made in 1964 and used till 1965 with 2.02 intake and 1.55 exh. If you don't know for sure if you have a 390, email me a number from your connecting rods or crank. The G at the end od the 2nd number actualy codes your heads as c4ae-g. Not all c4ae heads are 390 or 352, c4ae-f are high riser 427 heads. If you have any more fe questions feel free to email me directly.
Charlie
baddogideas@attbi.com |
| | | RE: C4AE-G- DATE 4B14 & 4B17 Heads? -- Jim, 12/07/2001
It may benefit others here too if you answer my next question here too. I dont know what the crank is/was but can you actually tell what the heads are for from the rods? Wow!
The casting number on all 8 rods is C3AE-C. On the other side each rod it is different.
they are J23 B25, J36 A25, J23 A25, J33 A25, J23 B25, J25 A17, J25 B27, J36 A24.
Now Im really confused. Too much data input!
Thanks Charlie! |
| | |  | RE: nice heads -- Mike McQuesten, 12/07/2001
Those are good heads Jim. As Charlie said they're commonly found on '64/'65 352 & 390 engines. John Saxon and I ran/run these heads on a '64 427 in a '61 Starliner. I say ran/run because it was his engine in my '61, which he now owns out right .... probably makes no sense but we trade things back and forth and sometimes even swap real currency but we try to avoid that.
But the orginal '64 low riser heads were cracked/split due to a previous idiot owner storing the boat that the engine was in without draining the block. So we used the C4AE-G heads with CJ valves and minimal port pocket work. We had the heads machined for the 427 spring cups, installed new guides, the cups and some used Crower springs. There you go.....easy 6,500 RPMs. A 3,860 pound 'liner that runs low 14.00's at a 100 mph with Fairlane 4 speed top loader and 3.89s on street tires and closed exhaust.
Also running these -G- heads in stock form on my '65 390-4V with C6OZ-B cam in my '68 F100.
Yup, they are very good heads. Use 'em. |
| | | | | RE: nice heads how much more are early 390 -- mikeb, 12/08/2001
heads worth over the later ones?
thanks |
| | | | |  | RE: nice heads how much more are early 390 -- Mike McQuesten, 12/09/2001
I'm assuming here Mike that you're asking what the early heads are worth in power value not $ value. I wouldn't begin to attempt to answer that question because I really don't know. But what I do know is that there are so many variables in choosing cylinder heads for any engine, i.e., intended use, induction system, compression ratio, camshaft grind, literally etc. Those are just a few things that pop into my mind. There are some benefits in the C8AE-H and D2TE heads but I can't remember what they are right now.....
For me the C8A & D2T heads work well to hold down tarps over things that kind of matter. |
| | | | RE: C4AE-G- DATE 4B14 & 4B17 Heads? -- Charlie Pagel, 12/10/2001
Jim,
Just so I get this right, ford only used one casting number on all connecting rods? There isn't really a c3ae- a, b, or f. Perhaps 352 used the same connecting rod length as 390 and 428. As far as I've found ford used at least 10 diff. id numbers to identify their rods in the Fe series. c7oe-a was made for NASCAR 427's only; in 58 edc 6.5" rods were used on 332/352/361 ci engines. Some times the extra info helps in identifying what you have, just like the date codes.
Thanks to all those who have given so much info, and positive encouragement, those who have only left only negative comments, get a life.
|
| | | | | RE: C4AE-G- DATE 4B14 & 4B17 Heads? -- Jim, 12/11/2001
Thanks guys! I appreciate the info.
Man, I had no idea the there is so much to learn about one type of engine, e.g. FE's.
I agree, this should be a place of love and sharing. I am grateful that you guys and gals take the time and have the patience to attempt successfully to help those less mentally fortunate (like me) to gain knowledge about the greatest engine family ever made by ANY manufacturer. |
| 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Jim, 12/06/2001
I just picked up 10 gals of 110 low lead at the airport to try.
Been running VP C14 at $8.00 a gallon
Paid $2.23 a gallon for the AV gas. $
Has anybody run both of these or just runs AV gas?
Do you notice a big difference?
Somebody (who was a very biased Chebby boy) told me, "Oh, dont run AV gas! Its not racing fuel!
Duh, but he couldn't tell me why I shouldn't run it.
Will it hurt my engine?
My ET's werent significantly different whether I ran 87 unleaded or C14.
|
| | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Tom, 12/06/2001
av gas is fine but i belive racing fuel is better but i stick with av gas it is only 1.10$ a gallon |
| | | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Royce Peterson, 12/06/2001
Av gas is great, I have run 100LL for years when I can get it. They clamped down a couple years ago because people were admitting to using it in cars. This is illegal because it contains lead and no road use taxes are built into the price. I latch onto it every once in a while for free, last year a guy with his airplane in the same hanger as mine deregistered the plane to be able to cancel the insurance. To allow parking in the long term tie down area he had to defuel it, got all my cars full plus a 55 gallon barrel!
Last time I looked it was around $2.00 a gallon here in Cincinnati. It hasn't been anywhere near $1.00 a gallon for 20 years. They sell VP at Edgewater drag strip, I paid $5.00 a gallon for it one night in September when I started to run low. My 68 1/2 Cobra Jet car ran 13.90 at 98 with both kinds of fuel. It's a totally stock engine that pings badly on straight 94 Sunoco Super Unleaded.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Tom, 12/06/2001
aww man 94 octane at the pump out west it is 91 MAX unless ya get it at 76 station then they got 100 for 340 a gallon av gas is always cheap out here problem is me beoing on that side of town when i need gas |
| | | | | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Royce Peterson, 12/06/2001
Tom,
It says 94 octane on the pump, could be 89 in 1960's measurement. When I lived in California earlier this year the 92 octane seemed about the same in that car, the price was just higher there. But the weather was always nice!
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Tom, 12/06/2001
no nevada sucks got new laws max octane is 91 regular is 76 1/2 351c 4v run like crap on it |
| | | | | | | RE: 100LL Aviation Fuel vs VP-C14 -- Jim, 12/06/2001
I have no problem getting it. I just went to the airport office and asked to buy some. They said. "Sure. Pull over by the fuel truck." I was nervous when I first got there with all the gates and federal WARNING signs. The gate was closed so I thought I would just wait for somebody else to enter then follow them in. When I pulled up near it, it just automatically opened. Some security huh?
I pulled over to the fueling truck right by the runway. Good thing the terrorist dont know about my little local airport. The guy said next time just come on in and pull right in by the fuel truck. it was cool being 100 feet from the airplanes landing and taking off.
This sure wasnt LAX!
So, I thought it was ok to run AV gas. Thanks
|
| fe trans -- Charlie, 12/06/2001
Does any one know if a ford f150 c6 trany would be ok to use in my 67 mustang. As near as I can tell with out getting the old trany out, the tail shaft looks the same in distance and size? I've heard in the past the automatic transmisions are preset to weight and that will make a big difference in how they shift. Any help thanks. |
| New to FE's -- Mike K, 12/06/2001
I just purchased a car and I am trying to track down the numbers that are stamped on the engine/carbs. I can't quite make out the number stamped on the head - its c5a?. The numbers stamped on the block are C5AEH I think. It has 2x4v and the numbers on the carbs are c5AF-9510-BD List 3300. The manifold has no markings on it but I think its a high rise because there is alot of space under the manifold (you can see the top of the motor under the intake). Can someone filll me in or at least point me in the right direction to look this up. Thanks, Mike |
|  | RE: New to FE's? Sell it and RUN! -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Seriously though, this is the place to come with your FE Q's.
These guys are great! Especially, Robbie, Dennis, Mike, Dave, and the rest.
Anybody but me, pretty much.
If I left anyone out,now is your chance to shine for Mike :)
Thanks for all your help guys. |
| | RE: New to FE's -- Royce Peterson, 12/06/2001
The carbs are 780 CFM units. They were sold over the counter as a dealer acessory for either single or dual 4V use. In a dual 4V installation the other carb should be P/N C5AF 9510-BC but a pair of BD's works just about the same.
The casting number on an FE block is virtually meaningless without some other supporting information. It could be a 331 truck block, 352, 390....who knows? Does it have cross bolted mains? Look in the engine tutorial section of this website and then look at your motor. You bought the car, what did the seller tell you it was? This sounds like a kit car of some sort right now. There are plenty of guys out there installing fake crossbolts in old 390 motors to look cool at car shows in their plastic replicobras. Buyer beware.
Royce Peterson |
| | | RE: New to FE's -- Mike K, 12/06/2001
Its a 68GT350convertible. The car numbers match but obviously this is the wrong engine. Its a 427 but I am trying to find out if it is a 427 block etc. Thanks for any help you can give, Mike |
| | | | RE: New to FE's -- Royce Peterson, 12/06/2001
Mike,
If it were mine I would return it to stock and put the 427 in something else. That is a pretty expensive vehicle to play around with. You should be able to find a 302 - 4V pretty easily.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | RE: New to FE's -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Thats a beautiful car! Alot better looking than those clunky ole, station wagon looking fastbacks(just kidding guys. Dont kill me). Charlie Sheen drove one in that movie with Heather Locklear where she is his filthy rich fiancee and he is a news reporter. Long live the coupes! Convertible coupes. even better! To bad you fastwagonback guys cant get convertibles. Nanner nanner nanner!
Hey, did they make GT350 or GT500 coupes in 1967? The best year, by the way.
You know I would build a concourse 68 302 for it. Cover the 302 up in the garage. When I was ready to sell the car I would throw the 302 in it and that would raise the price ohhh about 20 or 30 thousand :) But in the meantime, why drive a small block when you have an the awesomest FE ever made? That seems like a no brainer to me. |
| | | | | RE: New to FE's -- Mike K, 12/06/2001
Thanks for the info - I'll have to post a picture of the engine since I have no idea about engine codes,years, intakes,carbs. Maybe that will help in identifying it. Mike |
| | | | | 67 Shelbys.. -- Mike, 12/08/2001
why is 67 the best year, i think the 68 looks better and has a better hood for cooling and louvers for extracting hot air. the tailights of the T-bird also look better. in mid year they came out with the GT-500kr a factory r-code cobra jet car, unlike the previous year s-code 428 police motors. i believe the 1968 Shelby GT-500kr is the ultimate Shelby this is why its known as the King of the road. |
| | | | | | RE: 67 Shelbys.. -- Chip Huffman, 12/08/2001
Mike,
A few 67 Shelbys also had the louvered hoods. It was done slightly different though. The louvers in the 67 hoods were actually part of the hood layup. This was unlike all 68 hoods that had a molded lover piece set into a rectangle hole cut out in the flat hood surface over the valve covers. There were not many 67 hoods done this way, the company providing the fiberglass for the 67's was having a great deal of trouble meeting even minimum quality standards. It was so bad that Shelby had to have guys sanding the crap out of parts to get them to fit. At one time these hoods were only thought to come on cars with 427's in them. I think it was just plain too expensive for the company to make them using the method they were trying to use so they dropped the louvers for almost all of the 67 cars. The company was Plaza Fiberglass in Ontario Canada.
As far as which is better 67 or 68, I have owned just about every combination and they all make you fell pretty good when cruising or listening to them idle or ahh yes, the FE at 6800 RPM. Sorry I gotta go, Eleanor is waiting in the garage...
Chip |
| | | RE: New to FE's -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Really? How can I fake it to make my 390 look like a 427?
My 390 blocks dont have the cross bolts holes.
Do I just glue bolt heads on where they would be on a 427? LOL
Royce is right. You should put the 302 back in it with matching concourse numbers and sell me you 427 for $500 :)
is there a picture somewhere of the crossbolt/main bearing caps?
We have tutoring too? This siteis soooooo cool! |
| | | | | RE: Link to the engine textbook site -- Jim, 12/07/2001
COOL! I looked at that page last week but didnt check into it yet.
Those goes my weekend.
Thanks. |
| | | | | | RE: Link to the engine textbook site -- Mike K, 12/07/2001
Thanks for the link. How do I tell what code engine I have? |
| | | | | | | RE: Link to the engine textbook site -- Mike, 12/08/2001
check the date code on the block underneath the oil filter housing mount. there will be a # then a letter then a #. does it have screw type freeze plugs? does it have 4-bolt or 2-bolt type motor mounts on the block. check the casting# located mid point #1 cylinder on the block (passenger side at the very). you will have to crawl under to see all of these unless you have acess to a lift. |
| | | | RE: New to FE's -- Kevin, 12/09/2001
I have a 69 428 Police interceptor which I machined to accept The cross bolt caps and ARP bolts which are readily available. Align boring is required.It serves a purpose and has the added advantage of fooling the novice when coupled with aluminum 427 cobra valve covers. Along with many many other mods I also use 4 webber carbs with a manifold that has the same raised ribbing as the valve covers. My crossbolt 428 Uses an external Weaver Bros oil pump. With some slick machining, restrictors and lots of new tech parts I oil nicely to 7800 rpm on the street @ 590 horse with an idle of 875. |
| | Carb #= 66-67 Factory/Dealer primary carb for..... -- Ed Jenkins, 12/09/2001
a Ford(Fullsize) or Fairlane Dual Guad 427. The secondary carb should be C5AF-9510-BC list 3301.
Carb Forum
http://www.network54.com/forum/88781 |
| FE Forum -- Bob, 12/05/2001
I used to also frequent another FE site for info, but all I get now is a message about joining up to get additional features. Can't get to the actual forum anymore. Anyone else have the same problem with the FE forum at Network 54?
Thanks, Bob
|
| | RE: FE Forum -- Bob, 12/05/2001
Well I joined last week and get in fine but they still keep asking me to join! |
| | RE: FE Forum -- Bill Conley, 12/05/2001
Bob-
I had similar problems. Network 54 installed some new software and it seems to be incompatible with some peoples' setups. I run Internet Explorer 6.0 and also block cookies (Cookie Pal) and ads (Ad Subtract).
It turns out that my Ad Subtract was "erasing" the button on that nag screen that lets you into the regular forum. I also found that I couldn't read posts until I set Cookie Pal to block ALL Network 54 cookies.
You may have the opposite problem- if you've signed up for the pay service you may have to allow Network 54 to set cookies on your computer. This tells them who you are and may prevent the nag screen from coming back.
Man you've got to work hard to get something for free nowadays!!
-Bill |
| | RE: FE Forum -- Mustang Mike, 12/05/2001
I had the same problem. Turned off my add/subtract but still couldn't get in. Then I noticed that with my add/subtract still off if I moved my cursor just below the area at the bottom of the nag screen that says "sign up for network 54 select" that I got a prompt that said "continue on to forum". I clicked on that and I can get the posts once again. |
| | | RE: FE Forum -- Bob, 12/05/2001
Thanks guys, I believe that Mustang Mike was correct. I just was able to get in after clicking on the blank spot below the signup link. I am using AdSubtract also. It must have something to do with it.
Cheers, Bob |
| | | | Net54 has changed that screen a few times. -- Dave Shoe, 12/05/2001
Initially, Net54 displayed both the "join" and "skip past" buttons at the bottom of that blocking screen, before the day was over, they completely deleted the lower button (not just blanking it), forcing all to join or go away. About a day later, Net54 reactivated the "skip past" button, but did not display it (just added a blank spot below the "join" button. Since then, I've occasionally seen the screen pop up, and both buttons are always there but the lower one may or may not be blanked.
I suspect the screen will show up every few days from now on, as Net54 is apparently aware that it ain't easy to make money with just banner ads. Net54 will likely resort to tighter restrictions as the months pass, unless revenue starts to show up which will allow them to make a good profit. This may direct Anthony to suggest the option that we pool our resources and pay a monthly fee which gets rid of the screen completely.
Shoe. |
| | | | | RE: Net54 has changed that screen a few times. -- Paul C., 12/06/2001
I just loaded addsubtract the other day also, I also thought this might have something to do with it. I loged on and went to browse and found the FE forum there and got in. It took a couple of days though. |
| | | | | | RE: Net54 has changed that screen a few times. -- Bob, 12/11/2001
Well I still an being asked to join. And as I said I did so how do I complain? |
| Question for swede.. -- kevin, 12/05/2001
Who was your uncle that raced and at what track if you dont mind my asking? |
| fe transmision -- Charlie Pagel, 12/05/2001
How do I tell which trans will fit on a fe big block? How many different face sizes were there on fords, is there just a big block and a small block size? Will a top loader from a small block fit on a fe with the correct scatter shield? Thanks for the help.
Charlie
baddogideas@attbi.com |
| | RE: fe transmision -- Mike Haglund, 12/06/2001
Yes, with Lakewood you can put small block toploader behind FE by shortening pilot bearing stub on trans. Can be done as simply as taping off spline and retainer and then using cutoff tool carefully to shorten to same length as BB trans pilot surface. Conversely, you can use a BB toploader in small block by using longer pilot bushing that is available for just that purpose. Early-mid sixties T-10 trans also will fit being Lakewood has both bolt patterns on front (wide & narrow trans front..). Not very strong trans though and will not stand up to lot of abuse.. |
| Why -- Tom, 12/05/2001
why is there no markey for 390's i can get my hands on about 150+ of them for 150$ each and nobody want's them |
| | There is for a 1961 390 (n/m) -- Lou, 12/05/2001
n/m |
| | RE: Why -- Mike Haglund, 12/06/2001
A lot of supposed 390's are really 360's from 70's era pickups. Look just the same on the outside, but has 352 stroke and wrong cast numbers for 390 resto's
(though stronger main webbing block). That era head also has too large combustion chamber (low compression). I paid $300 for last real 390 (good running one. Lots of 360's available cheaper
|
| | | RE: Why -- Tom, 12/06/2001
no i mean REAL 390's from galaxies and t-birds |
| | | | Because shipping costs more than the engine -- Charles, 12/06/2001
I need a 360/390 bare block that can be bored to .030 but I can't find one close to home. Shipping an engine block on a pallet costs in the $150-200 range and that's more than the block is worth. I'd love to find a complete running 390 for $150 anywhere near central Md. |
| | | | | RE: Because shipping costs more than the engine -- Tom, 12/06/2001
out west we cant get rid of them so im just gonna get a few then see ya guys later |
| | | | | | RE: Because shipping costs more than the engine -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Boy thats the truth. The local recycler paper has 5 of them (running) for $150.
I have quite a few myself. I'll sell one to you Charles for $50 but I have to charge you $1000 for shipping and handling ;-)
Lou, you never did say why '61 390's have a market? |
| | | | | I've found trucking costs to be higher than that. -- Dave Shoe, 12/06/2001
If you don't have access to someone with a freight contract with a trucking company, I found trucking firms typically charge $150-$200 to ship a bare block 50 miles. Cross country brings it closer to $400.00 in the quotes I've gotten. If you know someone with a freight contract who is willing to underwrite the shipping, these contracts will cut the cost from 30% to 70% (depending on how big the contract is) - this brings the cross-country costs closer to $150-$250.
The only cheap way for a regular dude to ship a 250 pound crate is if you can have the crate delivered free to a forwardair.com terminal, and you have a forwardair.com terminal within driving range of your house. This is the only fast, cheap way I'm aware of for shipping an FE bare block.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | Yellow Freight -- Charles, 12/06/2001
I shipped a 250 lb. Mopar 413 bare block last month, on a pallet from Yellow Freight's terminal in Hagerstown Md. to their terminal in Shrewsbury Mass. (at least 400 miles?) and it cost $153. I didn't ask about coast to coast but I'm sure it'd be more. Anyway I'm sure I can find a block within 100 miles of here and just go get it myself! |
| | | | | | | RE: Yellow Freight -- Royce Peterson, 12/06/2001
I shipped one of my 427's (short block) last June from Owasso, Oklahoma to Long Beach, CA on Roadway Express. Terminal to terminal cost $175.00 insured for $5000.00. The secret is to not have them pick it up at your house, that basically doubles the rate. Show up at the truck depot, they have a fork lift to take it out of your pickup with. Build your own crate, mine took half a day and $50.00 worth of materials.
Royce Peterson |
| Need resto project shipped fast, please help! -- Bill Brady, 12/04/2001
I'm looking to buy a Torino resto project currently in Brooklyn, NY, but am unable to pick up due to too many commitments. Problem is, seller needs to unload immediately due to lack of space and storage costs, unable to ship himself, and the car is too good an opportunity to pass up. The car cannot be driven, but does roll. I need to find a reasonable cost one way transport (rollback or otherwise) to Newark, Delaware that could be done in next several days. Distance approx. 150 miles. Does anyone know any specific names/companies to try and have this done in this short a time? I'd prefer to deal with an outfit that someone has personal experience with, although I know I can't be picky at this stage. Also, what's a typical cost for rollback transport this distance? Hookup fee plus $1 mile? More? Any help will be greatly appreciated. |
| | RE: Need resto project shipped fast, please help! -- Dennis, 12/05/2001
Also being in the transportation business myself, I'd say the minimum would be around 1.50/ mi round trip + hookup. |
| | | RE: AAA+ tows 100 for free...Deal for the rest. -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Thats what I do in CA. They allow 4 per year. Mine is used up by march so I borrow everybody's I know in rotation for a dinner. They all drive new cars that never break down anyway |
| | Rent a tow-bar. -- Dave Shoe, 12/06/2001
It should be a simple matter to hook a Torino to a towbar and just drag it behind your regular car all the way home.
U-haul or other rental shops should have some cheap tow-bars.
Shoe. |
| Hello marine 427 fans, take a peek at this! -- P, 12/04/2001
Here's a link to my photo file, it's a pair of fresh 427's awaiting
reinstallation. I have a pair that look like this, but not anywhere as pretty.
Bruce did a really nice job on these, don't you think??
Here's the (long and complicated looking) link. (Just
click here)
You may have to cut and paste it.
Regards, P
["Long, complicated-looking link" edited by Admin., 6 Mar.,
'02] |
| | RE: Hello marine 427 fans, take a peek at this! -- Mike, 12/04/2001
very nice looking set up, but why paint them white? orginally all the Chris craft 427 setups i have seen were blue. some diesel marine motors use this same white paint also. |
| | | RE: Hello marine 427 fans -- P, 12/05/2001
I'm assuming the owner wanted them white due to his own preference, and most of it is powder coated. Hope you noticed all the aircraft type fittings, true to the business the owner/restorer is in.
A pretty unusual pair, eh?
P
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