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Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9766&Reply=9766><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>'63 427 needed?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I know it's remote but does anyone know of a '63 cast 427 block and more if possible.  Remember that '63 R-code I mentioned last week?  The one this guy got for a measly $700?  He is determined and has called me a couple of times since last week.  I did locate a complete dual four set up for him.  He didn't mind the asking price of $1,500 one bit.  Especially since it was complete and it was a '63 set up with correct carbs, linkage, log and air cleaner.  I know he's going to ask me about '63 low riser heads next so.....<br>any leads at all would be appreciated, please e-mail me at  sunjet60@hotmail.com<br>There, I'm trying.  Thanks. </blockquote> '63 427 needed? -- Mike McQuesten, 12/04/2001
I know it's remote but does anyone know of a '63 cast 427 block and more if possible. Remember that '63 R-code I mentioned last week? The one this guy got for a measly $700? He is determined and has called me a couple of times since last week. I did locate a complete dual four set up for him. He didn't mind the asking price of $1,500 one bit. Especially since it was complete and it was a '63 set up with correct carbs, linkage, log and air cleaner. I know he's going to ask me about '63 low riser heads next so.....
any leads at all would be appreciated, please e-mail me at sunjet60@hotmail.com
There, I'm trying. Thanks.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9778&Reply=9766><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Did he ask you about the L/R heads yet?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>It have a pair of C3AE-6090-D heads I might sell if you need them. </blockquote> RE: Did he ask you about the L/R heads yet? -- Jim, 12/04/2001
It have a pair of C3AE-6090-D heads I might sell if you need them.
 RE: C3AE-D heads -- Mike McQuesten, 12/05/2001
Thanks, he does need heads too. He needs everything for the engine. Except the dual four set up which we found locally.
I've had a response to my e-mail address too with regard to a set of C3AE-H. I've got to go check my stack of books to remind myself what I'm looking for.
D vs H? Early vs. Later '63 427?
Thanks Jim, I'm calling tonight to let him know about the two sets I've found so far. He is interested in doing this '63 XL -R- code fairly correctly.
Still need to find him a '63 427 block.....I know one or two of you guys have one stuck in the corner. I understand. I won't let mine go either.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9799&Reply=9766><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: '63 427 needed?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/05/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>What does the correct card "log" mean?
Just to let you know...
My "D" heads are on a running 12 second 67 390 GT.
They have triple springs (I think) and good valves (I have no idea what size L/R valves are).
They were done by EPD 25 years ago. They were stored for most of those years.
I put them on to try them last year on a whim while I redo the GT heads. Of course, I haven't got around to doing the GT heads yet. 

They work great! Less than 2 hours run time and 25 passes or so. I dont know the date code. If you want to know it I will pull the V/C's and let you know. Do you want the bare heads or complete ones? Because they set so long you probably should change the seals and check the spring tensions, Im told. But I am not having any problems with them now.
What are they worth on the open FE market?

There are a few guys selling 427's locally here in Los Angeles. Do you want their number? Or you search at www.recycler.com where I saw them. </blockquote> RE: '63 427 needed? -- Jim, 12/05/2001
What does the correct card "log" mean? Just to let you know... My "D" heads are on a running 12 second 67 390 GT. They have triple springs (I think) and good valves (I have no idea what size L/R valves are). They were done by EPD 25 years ago. They were stored for most of those years. I put them on to try them last year on a whim while I redo the GT heads. Of course, I haven't got around to doing the GT heads yet. They work great! Less than 2 hours run time and 25 passes or so. I dont know the date code. If you want to know it I will pull the V/C's and let you know. Do you want the bare heads or complete ones? Because they set so long you probably should change the seals and check the spring tensions, Im told. But I am not having any problems with them now. What are they worth on the open FE market? There are a few guys selling 427's locally here in Los Angeles. Do you want their number? Or you search at www.recycler.com where I saw them.
 RE: fuel log -- Mike McQuesten, 12/05/2001
You had me going for a minute there. I was wondering where I'd referred to a correct card "log". I think you must mean my reference to the dual four set up being a complete and correct set up for a '63 R code 427. The "log" reference was to the fuel log that feeds the Holleys.
As for price? I'm not sure what this guy will pay or what the market value is now on C3AE-Ds or Hs or Js. We'll find out.
 RE: '63 427 needed? -- tom needham, 12/06/2001
> What does the correct card "log" mean?
> Just to let you know...
> My "D" heads are on a running 12 second 67 390 GT.
> They have triple springs (I think) and good valves (I have no idea what
> size L/R valves are).
> They were done by EPD 25 years ago. They were stored for most of those
> years.
> I put them on to try them last year on a whim while I redo the GT heads.
> Of course, I haven't got around to doing the GT heads yet.
>
> They work great! Less than 2 hours run time and 25 passes or so. I dont
> know the date code. If you want to know it I will pull the V/C's and let
> you know. Do you want the bare heads or complete ones? Because they set
> so long you probably should change the seals and check the spring tensions,
> Im told. But I am not having any problems with them now.
> What are they worth on the open FE market?
>
> There are a few guys selling 427's locally here in Los Angeles. Do you
> want their number? Or you search at www.recycler.com where I saw them.
>

I have 68 427
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9758&Reply=9758><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>#C5AE-F medium riser heads..</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JJ, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Looking for advise on these heads and their performance.  I have a bare set, looking for recommended valve train parts and useage? Thankyou. </blockquote> #C5AE-F medium riser heads.. -- JJ, 12/03/2001
Looking for advise on these heads and their performance. I have a bare set, looking for recommended valve train parts and useage? Thankyou.
 RE: #C5AE-F medium riser heads.. -- Mel Clark, 12/03/2001
If these heads have not been tampered with you have nearly the very best that Ford ever offered. The performance is very near the vaunted High Riser and about 20% less flow capability than the Tunnel Port. DO NOT use the hollow or sodium filled valves as the are a disaster waiting to happen. It's not a matter of IF they will break and ruin your engine but, WHEN they will break and ruin your engine. I suggest using Ferrea or even Manley Stainless steel valves. The rest of the valve train can be stock Ford for use up to 8,000 rpm, just be certain you don't go crazy with lift at the valve and stay close to Ford's specs on spring pressures.
 RE: #C5AE-F medium riser heads.. -- swede, 12/04/2001
these are darn good heads and will out perform many other types of fe haeds including the aftermarket heads that so many people brag about. these heads are worth their weight in gold or damn near it. my uncle won several stock car track season championships with these heads on a 427 and really kicked some butt over a lot of guys with more cubes of the bow tie bunch. this was at a well known midwest dirt track ta boot. too bad the chevy boys didn't take it very well. they came back the following year and promply got their asses kicked again, and again ,and again.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9752&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>406 Block?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Joshua Carroll, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have a block which I beleive is a 406.  I am having trouble determining if it is really is a 406 because there is no id numbers anywhere on the block other than the typical 352 up front.  The main caps are stamped with C2EA but lacks a prefix number.  The reason I beleive it is a true 406 is because it has the provisions for being cross bolted, the bore is 4.13, and it has the early 2 hole motor mounts.  What does not make sence is why there is no C2EA-V or C2EA-K on the block anywhere.  And I mean anywhere.  Something else that does not make since is the fact that it is drilled for hydralic lifters and there is no presure releif valve at the back of the block like 390HP blocks and early 427 blocks?!?  Any help would be appreciated.  Maybe this is an industrial block?  It passed the mag test and now I am going to have it sonic checked since I am not absolutely positive it is a 406.  However, the fact that the bore is 4.13 and it has the provisions for cross bolting the mains I am amost positive it is either a really early block or an industrial 406 block?!??!  Help! </blockquote> 406 Block? -- Joshua Carroll, 12/03/2001
I have a block which I beleive is a 406. I am having trouble determining if it is really is a 406 because there is no id numbers anywhere on the block other than the typical 352 up front. The main caps are stamped with C2EA but lacks a prefix number. The reason I beleive it is a true 406 is because it has the provisions for being cross bolted, the bore is 4.13, and it has the early 2 hole motor mounts. What does not make sence is why there is no C2EA-V or C2EA-K on the block anywhere. And I mean anywhere. Something else that does not make since is the fact that it is drilled for hydralic lifters and there is no presure releif valve at the back of the block like 390HP blocks and early 427 blocks?!? Any help would be appreciated. Maybe this is an industrial block? It passed the mag test and now I am going to have it sonic checked since I am not absolutely positive it is a 406. However, the fact that the bore is 4.13 and it has the provisions for cross bolting the mains I am amost positive it is either a really early block or an industrial 406 block?!??! Help!
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9759&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 406 Block? like my 64 390 i bored 80 runs cool</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>gerald, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>x </blockquote> RE: 406 Block? like my 64 390 i bored 80 runs cool -- gerald, 12/03/2001
x
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9760&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 406 Block? like my 64 390 i bored 80 runs cool</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Both 406 engines I have owned had a large HP cast on them above the rear of  the generator on the passenger side of the block.  Every other 406 I have seen had the same HP cast on them.<br><br>I have also known several people who have bored 390s out to 4.130 and made 428s with the proper crank.  None ever had any overheating problems. </blockquote> RE: 406 Block? like my 64 390 i bored 80 runs cool -- Travis Miller, 12/03/2001
Both 406 engines I have owned had a large HP cast on them above the rear of the generator on the passenger side of the block. Every other 406 I have seen had the same HP cast on them.

I have also known several people who have bored 390s out to 4.130 and made 428s with the proper crank. None ever had any overheating problems.
 Only 406 had provisions for crossbolts? -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
There is no HP cast on this block. I looked for that as well as C2EA-k, ect.. This block definitely has the provisions for being cross bolted! The only blocks I know of like this are 406 blocks?!? I have never seen a 390 with provisions for been cross bolted?!? I have a couple of digital pictures of the block if anybody has the time to look at them. The main caps say C2AE but does not have a suffix letter. This should narrow it down to either a 1962 390 block or 1962 406 block. Correct?!? Again any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Josh
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9772&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 406 Block?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ranch, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>When Ford made the "406 " it was meant to race. This engine was not meant for the family sedan. There was no 2 barrel carbs, heck you couldn't even get an automatic trans.   All "406" were solid lifter blocks, had  groved cranks, had a larger harmonic dampner, had extra metal at the mains, had large oil galleries, oil preasure relief valve at rear of block. They all had HP cast on them. Not all have cross bolt bosses, my C2AE-J doesn't, you mught find that in 63 blocks. I have never seen an honest to goodness OEM cross bolted "406" in person. I've seen were guys have had it done, but never from the factory. Rumor has it that there were only enough made to satisfy Nascar, and not many hit the streets.  &lt;That is all I got&gt; </blockquote> RE: 406 Block? -- Ranch, 12/04/2001
When Ford made the "406 " it was meant to race. This engine was not meant for the family sedan. There was no 2 barrel carbs, heck you couldn't even get an automatic trans. All "406" were solid lifter blocks, had groved cranks, had a larger harmonic dampner, had extra metal at the mains, had large oil galleries, oil preasure relief valve at rear of block. They all had HP cast on them. Not all have cross bolt bosses, my C2AE-J doesn't, you mught find that in 63 blocks. I have never seen an honest to goodness OEM cross bolted "406" in person. I've seen were guys have had it done, but never from the factory. Rumor has it that there were only enough made to satisfy Nascar, and not many hit the streets. <That is all I got>
 RE: 406 Block? -- swede, 12/04/2001
all 406's had hp on them and also had an oil pressure relief valve, solid lifters. beefier main webing.as far as the main webbing goes i have a 390 with x-tra webbing in the bottom which leads me to believe that 406's were actually bored out 1961 390hp's which were also solid lifter blocks only. as for what you have i'm not sure, sounds like an industrial block,serviceblock, or just a hogged out 390 hyd. cam block. anybody else care to comment?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9773&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Anybody want to look at pics?!?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Joshua Carroll, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have a couple digital pics of the block if anybody wants to look at them to try to help id the block.  I have some good pics of the provisons for cross bolting the block.  It has the re-enforced webs as well.  I also have a digital pic of the outside of the block where the HP and casting number should be.  There is nothing there and there is no evedience that it was ground off or anything.  Does anyone know for sure if I am correct that only the 406 had provisions for cross bolting the main caps?!?  Thanks. </blockquote> Anybody want to look at pics?!? -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
I have a couple digital pics of the block if anybody wants to look at them to try to help id the block. I have some good pics of the provisons for cross bolting the block. It has the re-enforced webs as well. I also have a digital pic of the outside of the block where the HP and casting number should be. There is nothing there and there is no evedience that it was ground off or anything. Does anyone know for sure if I am correct that only the 406 had provisions for cross bolting the main caps?!? Thanks.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9777&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE:cross bolt provisions?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Sorry Joshua,  the provisions for cross bolting you're seeing are not that uncommon.  I have two C4AE blocks, one is a 352, the other is a 390.  Both are standard run-o-the-mill early '60s FE passenger car engines.  The 390 from a Galaxie,  the 352-2V, from a Mercury.   Both of these blocks are cast with the internal bosses that  appear to be for cross bolting.  Like the block I believe you have, they are not HP blocks.  <br>I have seen blocks like yours without any casting number identification also.  Not common but not too rare circa '62 like you're saying yours may be.  I have no idea why they were cast this way.  </blockquote> RE:cross bolt provisions? -- Mike McQuesten, 12/04/2001
Sorry Joshua, the provisions for cross bolting you're seeing are not that uncommon. I have two C4AE blocks, one is a 352, the other is a 390. Both are standard run-o-the-mill early '60s FE passenger car engines. The 390 from a Galaxie, the 352-2V, from a Mercury. Both of these blocks are cast with the internal bosses that appear to be for cross bolting. Like the block I believe you have, they are not HP blocks.
I have seen blocks like yours without any casting number identification also. Not common but not too rare circa '62 like you're saying yours may be. I have no idea why they were cast this way.
 RE:cross bolt provisions? -- Travis Miller, 12/04/2001
Anyone see the C4AE two bolt 390 block at Columbus Thanksgiving weekend that had provisions for cross bolting? There were a set of cross bolt caps that went with it. The guy was asking $800 for it!
 Thank you for the info! -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
Mike,

Thank you so much for the info. I really appreciate it. It sounds like this is a 62 block that someone has bored in the past to 4.13! The only way at this point to go any further with a rebuild is to have it sonic tested. Thanks again for the great info! Check out the digital pics I posted if you have time.

Josh
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9779&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Please do post pics.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I'm very interested in viewing pictures of it.  You can also email them to shoe@bitstream.net if you wish.<br><br>I'm unaware of any industrial FEs back in 1962-63.  The industrial version of the Y-block, in displacements 292/302/332, were the small V-8 industrials of the period.  A super-duty engine family took over in the larger gasoline displacements.<br><br>1964 was the big year for FE/FT industrial offerings, with more industrial channels coming on line in 1965.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Please do post pics. -- Dave Shoe, 12/04/2001
I'm very interested in viewing pictures of it. You can also email them to shoe@bitstream.net if you wish.

I'm unaware of any industrial FEs back in 1962-63. The industrial version of the Y-block, in displacements 292/302/332, were the small V-8 industrials of the period. A super-duty engine family took over in the larger gasoline displacements.

1964 was the big year for FE/FT industrial offerings, with more industrial channels coming on line in 1965.

Shoe.
 RE: Please do post pics. -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
Here are the pics. I have looked everywhere on this block for a casting number. It has the early style 2 hole motor mounts, the main caps say C2EA, and there are provisions for cross bolting the mains. Otherwise the block is cast as your run of the mill hydr 390 block. The bore is 4.13 but obviously I do not know if this is stock for sure. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9783&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Front of block pic.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Joshua Carroll, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>n/a <br /><img 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sbeI7rhz6R/KPmpOTekUjG3RIvqFtDKI5J41fptLc0wGDD/AEqlroazSfiJndpm5JPc1YtPlZbf8O+coOGJ7UkopLRVwoPcTC3ikdm9Ipa2jadBPcHCvyqZ6D5rLwG4t5I1wBjArSO8RYVhk4dVAoVodaRpPYRTMViO1u1QssbQyFW9LKcGrHEY0BdyAB3qu384nuZHAwrHj7UsJNs14m46FJfECacxj/FGMnsDmpbTtfeRAWkEsLfm7iqTqWjTG8Mphkljfpt7VK6ZaS2NqI5htYnO3uo7VunixrGnF7IQyTlkcZrXsW6Ul84IKdc4reO5ihjELuAW6E9qS0pxPEVbOV6c0a4sILlQsoOfes9DSSi6DPPCn/8Aqn/yocc6FwTOFTOcA1DzeG7QS8Stt+TWo8N2+wnzHOPY9qLjH5BbaLEuq20ZO6VG9iDTYuIZGxDLGwI5w2cVUv3HaooO1sfJpiDSRaTq8THjnikcYrpkpYywC2kMvp6d6PbxeUxR+Se9Bsb9JoyOQyHBzUhlHXI69jUZ/KJx09gATHMSo3DPQ9KdFyHTCrspbbhTj9aE8pVTxx96HNtUc0u0b3epW9lG0s8ixxL9TtXPdd/aEJJmh0yPKKcCWTv9hSvjy9llngsySIwu8j3NVKOEKe2PmvX8PxIOKyZN37GDyM8k+ENfstGn+PNXhlHmpFLF3GMcV0nRtfh1ex3RMFf8yHqprjEagdKsnhS6a31ZGB9JGGFU8jFBK4qhcPL/ACZfNSAtCLot6OFYUnHdLuYrhix4Oamr6Nb2yePsR/eqfYHJEYA3RkqTn2rHjnejS46smYNSntrtJrRtkkZ9+tXsa7Fq2ksSNk6qA6H3z1HxVJexL24ZZIw3XFeRmaEq7bhjvVe9kv2TXH4gY/lr2fmFu/xS1tcLNLuB5C8ijXDr5LZ4qiYPc9hGIU7cUMDN0PgGiREeWnsAKErqbhsHOBg13scbzPsTpXONQbdfzN7ua6DdOi27NkcDrXKrjUW/EyjaCN5xXJN9DppLZOR3LR4BPalNUvi1sUzyaCJQB1qP1KUb1APakhC5DylxjYTSog0rSN+WtbyQySt7Vtpb4tnNLeYWl55yas75MRfijSG1Mp2Roxarppunm3gRG+oDkVmlaWqQpKy7WPPNTEcOevbvUck3LXsGKUeg0cJEeM4FNQR7eSeBWkAycEZwOlHSJpMkdB26VGwoZiAZ9wGB8US8BWxm2ZyVOK8hRVwVxijOwaNlxz0xSafYztdHHAmLpyx5yetL39uWG5R0FWvXfD89tdPcwRM8L8kqM7agApO5cZOOQe1a4TraJtWqIKCWS3nVozhgwxXdLMu1vGzk7igJ++K5Vonh6bVdVVdrC3Q7pHxxj2rrJAhAUZGAABR8icW0Jii4o3CkS47GvJMg57DiiLkQg9GA5ocrKkGM9Oa87I7dI0xXyR2oXgs4CwAMp4RfmoKC0Z386TLSk7iaj7vXrefWNrtmNTtU1ZrUIyB0YFSOCKdQcVbLxqKtAMN0UkEDOKRuLg2svGcnFTNw6xQtkAnGM1AFBLcNJJ9C9jSyVF8cefYUX2UOcbu1YlxbXDjzsK/81RUrTFmZYC0eeMHGKGJFI6YPsaHFpGmOKErj7k1cyQomBLuUdFBqJZg5Lf0FaKxPTpXhPOFropIrHBXQws0sS+lyv2FLktJIWclifetmYFMVuqZAo3odYl2OaUrK5wdtSrORkjAPzQtNswsPmnvxTbJsiIwpJ6e9FbME3cxNEMj43c96ZERUMBxu44qpat4sXT7tre3iWR0OHJOAD7VMeHfEcet5ix5c6DJX3HvVHgyKPNrRF+Rjc+CexxYXK+TIoI7PnkUBWlhVox128E96liu/cpwCDS0kX8TnpjAzUpFFLTTIK0adZZCuDInJ7ZFWLSNQ/El4GXa6dPmoeJRDNu5CnrzQ7C6dNZHpwi8H/vStckyeXHTLdMyxvjPXilJm/N157UwdrMPtwTQDCHZsH/zUKEWigeOrVi0N6inbjY3xVMEpx2rtF3bxzwyW8yK6Y9St3H+1RV34L0GfS2S1D21wxyJZCWx8Yr1/D8uMcahL2PP8jA5S5RZy3z2FXDwjYSybrxlOw+hPn3NEX9nNxHeQ5u4prM8u68EfGKutraR2kaKibI09KL7Cn8vyYOFQ9xfHwzUrkOx5WMnPpVcYqqOVtJNyLtLEk/OasV7N5FpI2QBwBj3qqXhDMDn7e1YcDu2bGt0PRQ3bMkiXR8s8gY6U5vm3bXuGkI5Oe1L2bt5SADoOtF8gJucE+s8knpWpMg1TDBmXlGIbHaoS/v8AUo90UkpKdsVLKsq5ywOelDnt1niIkwCO9Ho5UQyazqSxhRKQAMdKANSvw7OJ2DHqay4BglKE4x/elgxH613QaC3OqX0kBjedivtUG23nCnPvUjI5GcikWYgjaOlUgc0Ymoxv0cCk726WVsqegxUUCVJG2iqXI4Un9K2rBGLtHnvyJSXFlg0w5sGOcdalvD2kebOLmcHYDlV96gdG8wh1AOEO7Bq6WGqweWFK7WAxjtWLO2pNI24mnBMm1ADDHCjithHt4HSgQSK/KmnY/W3A4rMOrsatoQCpOeadiUDcBxilgwVM+wreNsSZJ4rtHbNkt3zkOetMtGA42nJPTJ714txCQQhwfbNbRttBPBzUXjXsUUxiODb2HPUdqUbR7J5jI1nAW99tHNwxRscADkmsgmDAYOSeM5otgRvFbwwoVRFRR2UYoE6rgE84PQd6NIhAJ38j5pcAmMlsHFTlJpUMo3sGGBHU5PaonXro29iY1Prl4H2qTQZNVXWLgz6gw6iP0ikgrplYK5UV9dGSeQyKSGpxLu80xAmCUHapK2ULz70ebY6bXQEduK0uTfZfir0Rj+KreSLZLE6kDkgUp+9IbgMsbkA9c09dadaP9Cjkc1EXOmJFkhcH4rqxseKceg81/dLGBC0e0/SByRSst4GmU9XxgmkXW4tl9O1l6g1pb75HZ5OWP9qtwXElghNZVL/ZNRlnXg4FFUIvUH5NAilgt4DPPJsiXqT71WdT8WSyyNHZII4xwHPU1PF488rqKLeX9RWLSZbwuRxnZ8jFbrwSAfsMVzOXVLyUgvcyt92okGqXkTZjuZAR7nNav6bKvyMC+tK/xOz6NqSQp+HuIyVz1HUVPmzhuYxJAc/6iuRaD42MEwj1JAyHjzVHK/OK6Lp2oKMTQTb4nwVIPWvOz4cmB/cjTDyMfkfdDs59r3grVoL+eeCBpYXkLAjrz71M+B/C19a3cl7dR7Bs2qv+9dKS9N3GWwMj8p70B7p41baxU56dKvLzMk4cH0Zl42NT5rsTNq+4gpg4+qhJYmGGSQggAFstXt3POylef60tPM0sW1pGYYxjPGazbNSViEkQkVZApyTyBUXcbLbUec7nAwc9qm0DIoG3IxSUiJLOC6AMo4JHSuSoq1yVE1BKslkkoBphQXjVgQG78dRSemnrExG3qBTMvBCjoPaorVoyyi4vZ48eTncOnI96GFzgEgMeAKx2bgrzihu5A8wen70Iv2A1Wz0fwnwvPPQUdpE3AbTuxgkVT/EXij9zyRxLH5krjPXGBUtpV/8AvKxjlK7GcZ61eeKagpSWmTjOLlxj2j3V7n1x24GVxuOKUFtbXIWPzArDsaYch5ixwccChLcRCUbAVcH1KV+r9atiVRoSbt2O2kEMQxuJKnHQ0aY2oGxzhz8UsbmISkr5iPu4x9LUSa6tZFKuzxqTzsQkt+tV2TbsC5VOCcgAYr1LeeUkKPSBknFIS3MfmjY4A7ZpptUSNTGxOQOmOtUBsDeaW9yhZDHvX8u7k1XZbdomKONpHvU7JqwQpKVXOdprWaL8fGZBjdjtXDJ12V5o+DyDQDEOwFPPCVYq3BFAMJHQYrrGK+mlTs2XwBT9to000qog++OwpqJHeUIo5zVn02x/CKS31HqapPyJsMvDw4l3sRisks4PKijJJ6n3oU2m3aRmSOIjjI+KsqIBIsnUjjmjTLI5ABJqPLZP/opunvfQTCRnZkB9QNXu0uYriFSgw3cUn+7ke3YMuxs8MKR8iW3YqrMrDoRSSl7hVE1eX8dlGWOWbGAtU/UtXv7hj/EdV7KhxRGa4nuMSOzNnAzU3aaVEY8SJlvc0ypbD/2VKC71CJ9ySyA/8xq26Brd3NcCC5JYY4JGKN+5IByE6USO2SCVZEX6aSTtbDySGvEEF5caXJDaOVkI4weT8Uh4XXUI4JFvYZIQuAoY9T3qQi1SB2Idwjg9DW02o20B3zToqj561nU2vtopSq0TMcwZSD2OKidc1y00aNZLhyEY4AAzWWGsWt47CJzgfFHvNM07WI2iu4fMiXkYODTqKbqQttdA7e8ju7D8VCwMTruUj2qnly0jv3ZjVsu4oNP0l7e1j8uCKMqq/FVRBnHGMV0Uk9Grx/dsct2zHz2rZ1kZBgH+lG0+3MsqqfpHJqz/AICPyB6eaPZa+LKV5b/OfevZYHeL1AkkVbU0qJX3tnjnFCvfISBgqrzS1R0537FFWy/Ey+WAeKUubX8HM0YPTrVit5IorokHnNV3WpyLe6mP1YOKeDbkojxlUZSfSRTNY1J7qYwqx8lDgD3PvUYuCea8PJrK+ihBQjxR8jkyOcnJnpGCRXsZw1a1vH9RphEF7VbPB2uNa3I0+Zx5Mp/hlvyN/wBjVTr2NzFIrrwykEVPNijlg4SLYcjxzUonerG7EUoLD0nrTk5RpNpJyRkHPFV63nM1rbzkAGWNW4PuKkI5S8Y3H1J0r5dLi6PqePJKRu7lpzGSTjuO1aSBV5B+k8Us75yucseCRRYQrsY8gkc5HaniBxaNlOMgHPfmlpF9e88Uwo2MQDnscV5LHujI5Fc0MnTARu0biRB6qlonV1DqwZaiLdGyVPvg0fL2j+dEN6H6lpOO7JZ4+6JEoCSFBpeQOV2gDAo9pMl3HvQnHTHtW5jK5Hb2qTVPZBbVFdvdJ0+9dHu7fe0fQ5xXr3kNuhjtkUEDaFHatteYxW42NtLt7dqhYGGwceo9CBWrHFzim3om3xHg7bMEmjJkqBySetCHqwCMfpTcEbKAcA/rWlIi2bKqgYOM9s0vqMxt7CVkHKoT0pvDYYgDjgUleKZUkjBBBBBFMtMU55HPdNMZzI27OQM1NreNdqroD5gADDvXs+liIbUUnHWtI9PnDq8CnzR2HetE5xl+icYuI3HZ3M7rhGRODmTip0XVvp1qod9zH6VA5NJ7ZUsA07NG4OOetJwRPJJukO/ByCaitlH0FEbTl3P+J9WPilZM7eOKl47NzNE3qVW9LY44rTUNHuLAecRut2PDe33qcmk9lYO1o9mjtILlvJjKqnGfc1JRahHJCBINrD461HySJI0kmMjdmlodYsWm8gyr5mcAGli219pz3XJlnjhS5txJHKFCck4oMF3Dub+KGKe9IW9w8MvoyVPUVOxWtleRBgqLJ7dM0qlyBKDiK298Lu62xn0qck44p6W2SbL7Dx3o1tFEkGxI1R84IAxRjGRGwokyJXSo1mEoTmnETZxR0GAVNLsfVjNFHBwBjAPPtQ57YSAbRg9/mhqxA64JpmOUYGT096NHWVnU9EmkYlc1BvoV27lRvIXvXTCVlj/zfahzxBbdWAUZ9hQWugp0VDQbKaynAdTg96uETbUxxkAZqNY4lAxjmnFb0jtUJTaZaCuxbV8tp8/OPTVbQxsVVByOvNWHVZANPmwedhqs2QA9W3BYUIu7ZrwJUyWtbpbZGJOMd/inrbW98oHmLsx1qt36O0L7CRx2qEhupbaTEi7l9jTKLktGijpj6sjQudwUjg1H3EMt5bnywenBqtW1+kqqobG05wKsVlrCpEIj0HehVLZPfLjRG2ejXKPJLLnC561WtXhMlpKvvXSXuopbWRUdd7KelUG4hDM6n5FGMuM0y0YOWOUfk5eylWKnqDXlTGr6e0FwzBfRnmotkGOOor6PHNTjyR8fkxvHJxfsDokYwM1ptb2NGFOIj3n9KNawmadI1GWZgAKCPSMCrr4H0IzznU7pdltB6lz+Y1LPlWKDkyuHG8k1FFtii/CxQxdPLjUH9BUrapDcx/w5V3jjYeDURPJJJKNnLOc49qKllgk/ikWT9f8AWvl3bdn2CUIQSk6HJ43ibIH6gUGJGWT6iCRzWW9++Tb3Gcr396NHt8wFefbNUWxZLjowgI+dwAxwBTCSxum1mGfehSbHyVU4oOxV9We1FozroaOxHO3G080GKchmTbwTWmQynP6USJcjaBlqSqG7Wx61g8sOVPDckUnqGpw6cu+4mSJc4XcetOQ7lQ5PQVB65oNrrJQXcjx7CSpXvSLi8lT0jK00nXYa6eHUNPOSpO3cjLURaDHXle1SNzBFYaettFkYXCjPb5qLsFfzSpJIzx8Vqw9OuiUiTVePSP8AxTO0oo/1raCMMOTWl3IsK8nntV4oixae6ESN6gMdc96UtWMu6V2AH36UhMrXU5JJCg5HzTVtBLJIqpyfaitHewxFCXZl5IY5JFOXdzZaNHFIUQu3b82KBe6tZ6HEIfLM90fyjsaqOowapqs7TOEUsPfoPaiocpfdpA9rQPWfFEl5efw0/hIeBmn9C1m2lfazbZD2aoVPDlzn1PGP70wnhsjBafBHQgVol6CjSZFLM3bR0RCJUGevuaU1Y5sHUE7QRULp0l5YIInuBNH7MOf603e334iERrGVGcnJrI2jRCDTtiAl2TSxucHPAqKm8NtcXAnhmRFJyc9qhItRlFyZHJO7rzUzF4hiSPa6tkHPFaPRy4ncBFlxZI1MshK2kJfPCDk+9Qz+KJ0nJiiAHyaRuNUk1FAkYKx/61pHac5xzUseFQtzWx8mRy/Ho6BoWupqcQDZE47GrMp3Lg9cdDXMbEyQbWVSjr3FXnStWWeEpcOBIo4b3pJqnoHGySlUAdOtKFctTbHzIsqQfkUHYcfTgilBuhcqQ1bkEAGtjHnjoa9aMoo9qIEMQnAB74o4cSQMvdaj43K80wkuNy46iuWtBFDhpR8VuzenAyDWsZG/J/tWr+picYrLmWy2J6YrfruspsnB2Gq9A4wpWrJeFVs5ckepCAf0qp277QqngV2Po1+Pe0Sobeh4pK6so5EyvB+1OxAMnJ5xWCLk8im6Zsj8FVmtZrWTdHkU3ZXshOyTIA74qbFr+JbYF6mmH02G0i9IG4jnNUc7VNBfGCsjba/OwruO09qXLbpDk+knpTE1goUuqnOOAKUMU6RhtmVqdKx01JadAbu0juVKMOveq5feHWjBaBsHP0kcH9atMLCQgc0dUbnA9PzV8WeeLpnm+VghN1kW/k5w+m3sfWBse4FexaZfS8Lbv9yK6O0ShDujQitrdcEBIEAHfritX9Skl0Y8X0lZLcXor+ieCJJsT3rhY15K1c7iVI7RbS1XZAg4Hv8AJoNxdkRhZJDtA4AP+1RUz3N4Cqb4oh37msWTLPO7k9HpeL4uLBtbNZrt7YsckNjivWivmtluluf4UjHkr0ApOaylwVVi4A/NSZg1GNdplcRdMFuKfHFVpg8qLnK0iWtL9pJRuOQpxk1Y45txVuCAKqlpD5SjIJPvUzDOscI3ZyOBUppXaLqLUEmS0koKAKee9AYOzjJxj+9ZEysgIo6nb6+KBNfbo8BwuAa8hLF+DgA1o5HUDkVkDEOQDQYUtE5aKCrYrSZFB2nBYVtpudrg14Vw8h4xms2RfcZXrRW7x993KTwAcVrbsSSVHI9q0kYtMxHAzXplSBMkgYr0MeopGWT2yQ/FJaQl5Dg4qBaabUpi3Pk54rz+LqDc8Q54HvUnGEhj2KOnXFUXwIkDigAQKo5JxXmqXcWlQLHayCW7fg7e1MNIqWhMRD3UpCIg5NL3OgyaU8LXR3XMibyv8nPSubSGSIq008hzc3LGSdufVzim2jIPWjdBWhznmp8m3Y0dA8EfFZjArYn+1aMVrrGVmpAX1VhKlfatN+TjpWNHnkNmhYfYoV4AlyxT6T0oRB24HWpWDTvxCByKaj0N3B2gYFev68Yqjyf48nbDeGrcXEMyt+UirHDp8S53dqrOmm6sLx4UIG4dKmPxN93K4rDmtztdM2Yl9iXwS5SFU2EYI70pK4jJUHj3qOe7uTwZowR15oLiWQ586MfINTpj9dFn0y9aF1RpSoPIPUfY1coGDQgsPVjmuVQyTQn/ABAw9qteia2UKxSP/C7k9qRqhy0ugJyBQnXcM8fFMDYU3xvvVuRzS8mQOMUEIxdkYDOf0okWSygnqK8YMfkV7GCGyMjHTFcd+gYG2YVjM28rW5AaTIyTnrWjHDnGQQetZsy9yuPVit/C34RunCn/AEquLH5m3b1+ast+T+HJDY45qq+ftKjOKGPo3+Onuh5VeL6wP0o6qZjtX35oMTPORHkY+BUmipZKPkdaZ6Nde7DIsdnDu6moyZ2mYs/Az0osVwLh5Fm4H5T7UGcBOpOf9aZLZ52XK5M0Y4xg8VssgyI9oKsOaHxjGe1aR8vuI4AwKM1RXxZuX2mlzpmw7oDz14oUDIpEcilCPfvUpFJxjk0G5gjkQkpg9iKRmirdS2Y0UYAP5TwT2raC3Z4DGuVycZFKK80UPl8ldwIzTtjJJFdbNx9PO3PFK1ohuGSl0ZFpUcLglCX/AJm5NezWx52j4qZF1FOdsuFb3FayW5XJU7l+KdVQZuSZWvIcPyOM+3StpIVPpIHNSs0eWxs4z2obRKOCuMUao6Mn2Qi2xV9o/uK3aEgg9cHoKkZI8cjGaCgODu7CuRbk+za2BjY55z805u6Co5CsbZZuvSnYmLoU3hRjhiM0P0LOPubMhJNEtkG/IB3V4gCjBO75osKbiCpwBXUTukyStX8uCVh1oTSBLJz1JGa0t8sGB6E0G+kFrp8jMfTjHXpUJJNmXaZXZpFjBJbHxS8cTXTb2DbegXFESAXJLyZI7Cmnn/DlI4/ST716PXRnDx2EwgBVAFHTnmg+WynY3pYnFbSTsItvmEnrnNGS6j328lwQERgXb4FFXQr0Xbwt4UWxKX98qvc7f4a44Qe/3qB8a5/fSgcYjH+prokd1DIFWNw2U3DHtXN/GMgk1ogflQCpDRK8wIHB5oeGPY0QgnjOKwDAxS2EHsOMgc1q0O4ZKkH3o2cVsGGMYrrYU0JiJQeawL6sCmDHknsPavNgGeeaGwppCen6X5cADjBXjFFmlitFJYhR2BqwizVAdzbs9hSWq2FnLZs0sfCjORT+vHlsRY5UUoz3FzemeKMbE7+9YLq/uGKrFtA7ngCnba6jK+XbxnaOOlPgStGV/DhsjnJxWlzr2Jxg60ysmzmuJCBJvfPRen9aeg8NsRmac/ZalVhuolPkwRJ9zWpi1Vzy0Kr7Cu9aT0nQPSjds0TTIrVf4cbMfvQoo717jdGNiqf60ZrTVGPpukVfbrXqWF6Cd1wpJ71O/dsfXSRO2d/LbFV3nb3QGrFa3CXSgock/Fc8Gl3gk8w3nI9hUvomvx2955SShpo+HHZx8VNw91sNr3Ls0ZTihqCGPvTtvdQajbKyOvmY5WgSxlX9iKAvQI7vMGMYrWRMMeelYzlZFx71hJZc96zZ70Vx9sSvVVogACS3GBVVS2kkkBVTgGrdMu5Suce3xSMSLbq+cnrgV0HRu8aVJg4IxaRbm6noBS91M8r7m42168wfnvnvQJG545zVOJ38l3o8D4BwevXFevMRGUJ4P9qCO+O9atwADnimSISdtthoxlSA2fgda225IPAC+1JbihJBxiiRzkZJbNFphwtRmmPQspDcYPtXpbORkY+KWEhZicAYGARxRrcNIxyuB2qdUboZFLaDKEyDIMj5GaFKnk3h8k5jcZU00okiDmNc5G3JGcVpLJLJPG8h3engKO1IuzNlleQAJHiH8QEj39qds70qMByfb3r1FWaMKVJFJy2RibdEx+1OivKtMmg0dwg/K4oF0jR9QSPeo2O4dCN2cjuKlYbpZIHeVhtQDg1zdC8Utkc6Hh88+1BIHJ7U60YmYtE36UvKhXgD78VxVCVxFv8AWDjbRrViy8nAom3jb29q9jQKTgcZoDSl9tBMenqcE09Cojj/ANBSpU7BgD5piAmTCJyx4o9Gae1oct3xFKwTJPGBSWrKj2XlkAKxHpPxTd0nkQqqEkjlqh712ubeIO3Ric0kY3JMzSapsSBEfY49qUe4BlJ8vc0ZyQ3cfem2UEleaNFbBoiHGSeK2MzJi7TW91Dsjlj81eSuegqJ8Ry+ToM+xj+UD+tStzaJDjy4lX5UVXvFSGTR09/MwMDg4FVwJc0Jkf2M6l+zDxKmseHPw8rZubUbTnuvaofxKQ2tTHPt/pXNPAniGTQdejOcRS/w5FJ4Oa6Dr0ok1id0O5TjBH2oeVj9OWugeNPnESXrW+zjPShZIWs8w7fj2rKaFpUe8Z96GW59IyfetgwxzXgIUEgUQLRjEhevatTuIBPSsaT04xXhZucHBNLY6RPqTSOsOF09+2eBTIbj3xUTrc6+SIurHn7Vngrki+JOUkiIs9kAyw60+LyMcA0KziUqvmj0e/tUrHZ2HBZPSO9bG7J548ZtCgmTbncM1uGBGdwqZttF02Vuh2496kE8MaYynlgf+akdolorO09a1HXAqdufB0cmPwlxKvuc9KEfBk/lHZqLmTBA3JgZ7VysGij+Ita/CRm2hP8AFPUjtVa0m3mnvBKrFdpzuFWOb9nniKfVGiaDcrHmYn01bLPwbbWMMcRmYyJ9e3ua9D1ceHHxi7bMUYTyZOUtJCNjfSw7ZFbZKvz1q46fq0eoxbZdsc68feqvdWlpZzeVIkoUDO7NJQ3XlOuScA8HNYu+jZVl5ljZZMgdKQvb82dhPcLEZfLBwq9zUlpt7bTaeHkO6THQUpDhhIu0Fck7TUZ/d7XQ0ftKxoHih9aeZJLYxPFgnnjFSt16VY9eAc05LDDEhEMCRbuTsGM0reA+QQeCFoTlGTuKpFsDcWreyNZcDIyRQpCSvGMUfcVAByc140BMRcY25xTQd9l8+NRfJdCpbao7UeK3kn4Vf19qAIyeMd+tSjAwW6quQxGSRRk6Rn7EZLBlzl1XHuaElnEv1Trn70O4Zi5BNLkfcCim2joqiz2OlW8igmUEf5eakYrC2jyCSR8dapNtqslq2IWO3vTVx4lt4EL3FwFOOBnmpOGRv7SvrOK2y6BY0UBBhR2968CxYJ8pQce1cyk8exR5ESO+Pc4r2H9o5jOJLRmX4eqLwM7VtGWXk40/yOnRx25TiLFaeXbvJtEZyKqmm/tA0i5IjkZ7djxlxx/WrNDdQTp5kTq6kZBU5qOTHkxakqLQzKW07DPYQMDiMZ7c0umnILeeMnasuBg9qbVgQDvOR0FaLKwkbch4HHzUHKXuPyIUaNcWz7rebPbmt0lK5juYyr56ipuBGc8EZPPNJ6pbwlPPkfaOpxVoydAhklHREzW+05Tp2BrRG8sYz6val4bk73P4kSAdM9q2SdJjgEBx1qi6NUZxlphGncnacgHtUvp0Aii3nh8dai7W3IlDTPgZ454p1p5POCqcKPbvSO3pAzTUVxR5eyM5KeaSuemKUmhItkx0x3pi7uLFJ0gku4luZOBGWANHQBo9jDle1PjtNGCTtUQojPmD26EU0IuBtzkCm1swX3AUeO328g81pTIMhJ4pSCWGNvc1CeIoM6Favg5MjVbL+2JQ7R9xUPq8O/w2q45ibPH9KpjklJHVao5NOhgnyvHcV0XQdQXUNOR3b+IuFb9KpGowHJwOnSmfC1/+F1IQuf4cvHJ6GvQ8iHqYrXaMOGXpZafR0ORNgxjjFAUkcYzmmpImHA+lR1pdVKndjIrxj1Oz0quTmvEQc16FEh64+K28vaMhjkVx1NnioAx6EVjIq84oY3FsjrTGAeD0pBkPZGKr2ot5l07DlemakJpzHFt3Eu3FR18vkJGhPJ9RpMMKdnp+Pj4rn8h2DR2wwOAuc1Eya6bXMLJuGOoNSslyPwrgH8g4qouFluGZuea3YIJ3yMXlqSjrtss+m+LIoRtlVyan4PE8EgBUuDn2qmWtsOAkWT8Cp5NH1CONGezlAf6fT1pcjh7Iyxg0vuZ1PwvGmraY08bH68CmJUjjWQyIcocEj3qT/Z7YSWPhlUnh8ucsWZGHI9qrmqQ3mp3F3ZRMIoGlO+U9vgUJwUIRl8kYT5ZHBewneakFhkaMbVTnrQtF2anE1xcDZGuc+rtQL/wRPHYCS3neacLudexHxVTzc24aMeYoHDAZ/vU1TKpF5NpoWp20pmdVkRSAS3PxXOWtwsjhWyoJANFEjtLguWb+Wm30+9Ft55gZYx8Uba6KcePYfQZWEj27HJK5U1YIwQd3c1VdIkC6rF1GcjmriRtANd1diySNZQQDkcdKSuYQ6ksfTtxzTruWUqevagNGWj2EjB61h58mWinF2QETKiqSM0QuGGAvppz93qSVQ4waVkhktzzyM8EVeLTN0vujoyzhBnBH0jnmiXOJM84OaEt6lvA5yd546VHHVWSTLDKZppLk9GBII0ALEntUXfTquEQ855xT1xqyOpWJecfUeKrt7OIYHlPJHT71TFBtnSdK2LX98bSICMgu2R9qrc26Vi7ksx71uzM7MzZLdc1ruxXu4cKxrXZ4efPLI/0DWKM9WIrY26D85rc4/MP6Vr/D9zVSWjTyVzjJNTGi67eaFMHhlLRA8xseDUVuA6DpWpOaE4Ka4yWgwlKDtHcdK8Q22rWCXELKCeHU9UNMyajFGjFWDbT71xnQNTfTtQUbiIZDtcf71fY3/huD0r57y/DWKeun0e14+dZIftFh/faSuBDnJHelpriWcskgPNQUbhJAVyBUzbpvY9Wb3qHBR6LkVLYFZN6Er78VkLTQu74GffGKfkk2M6SHp0296B6JNowR3IJzViilHiSdtch4QxVdx4xTFtGJJM5IxSiJEqLskzxz2okTED0Px0qbXwRbBzeDNOn1c6nJPIXyGKk8AipNJY/xRTGR0oTORbABjnvSwmw+T1zxRSnKuT66J2ldInY4on+lhkflNGS19QJIXFQizK4OTg96Or+YApzgdADVY2uxHRMmw3r+WobV7eystHvI7qZEeVCEA5yeox+tFkkki25Q7eh5NU/xc4NxByQdpPJrovlJJDKKRTL2LcpzVfcGC4ypwQcirXIFZDnvVev4NpLD3r2PHn/izz/Kx19yOi6Bqi6lpiPJuLAYbHY1ImFChYNwDwK5/wCDtUFlqP4eU/wZeD8GumyxxlP4JJUe9eb5OJ48mujX4+TnC32RjIud2cH2rBGf/ujyIMDvWoAPGeazWXpMHsAyMVsOhrHUg4GKwIMc5pR+kRtzP5k5YcAdKRvJnlcEnoMVvuJ470OSNncKAdxOAKpBUfQOMYx4r2JDQNGm1zU47GHI3/U3sO5rqsH7MtAtUjU2byFfrZmOTTf7O/C/7j08XVymLy4Gcfyj2q7bAZPWcDvWmOJyjdnzH1DzlPLxj0iF07QdBgh2WVjEhHXK5NaX8UUUuIwFCDI+KPIDHcnycA5x+lL6/aT2tl+JRw4Aw2aSdyi6j13Rnh9k1ctMkdDnL2crnnnjAqM1PSpZCRCoCk7mxxzUl4Zgnh0hDOVDONwA71JjaA46nFaY4PUxRT0Z55+GaTiU9LlrdoomVsoMPUJevHbXdyYIUYSNlty5FWLUoxDqRJGMjvVNuL6XSdTltrpA9pKQfcqD7V58lxdHoRqSTEFs7BdQa5uExv5KoOB+lPXms2MEOxFcptwo29KX1OOKONbi2bzIj0oCIbmxJWIbgvOaVSa0MR1peW95eeWLVFk6h+mMVOAgIPbpUNpOmPcW17erGUWFSMk9alInLwx7hjgZBqcm1Y2mb5LjIXBzxQypAxkZ963fCpgULOR16VmjooxKcMr5Ibn2pKa6uracKo9OM8jIqc3YXnFReoIS27HXvVllpdFVJ9WQd5cPLJk4z3AGKSJyMYpi4g8xHVmKE8bhWkem254JmPyZDzV4yilbO22KMq9elRerxs1p6eg5NXXT9CsZD64XYfLms1/S7SHTNlvAqc5JzkmmxeTGORUTyY7i0zlgjbHQgVr5eevapW5uILVjG/1Dtio57u3JODivchklLdHjZMcYavYB1yOKGVINFaWLswxWjSIR9QqyZndLoHWD715vX3rXzB2zTC2bjIPHbpXRrWQDT4WeRQzKMgnHaqJpVq15dooHpU81fo13yRxeWrBfTyorzfqElqPwel4EHuXsYhjJwZo8dzmp+G4s/wAMkQnQzjjap61oiRRsiiNAQOfQOtZd3lpZRGe6MarnhiMYPxXk8uTpI9BvQvId7kbcVoYdr5U5Bp2IQ38KvayJIOu5TmvFhZZg23CjsO1NyrQqPUjIUenJrAxVcYxg9vanlUFWyMDHBoW1dowDjuTU7OAi637lDcdhQXnGQMjPagTo0LBux/tQVUnp0rRGqJ0TFqyspGRmmFYxuMAYFRFq3l3GC20njFTBwsRPfHPzR4ID0bNdyTHYelVDxPKst/GqMGCJg47HNWNGcg7COPftVT1BkkvZCuNoOMjuaOOKi9DR2RbR5GMVF3kQdTgEgcVPtCMYyP0pW5iVlK4xWrHk4uxMmPlFopwLW9xkZBU8V1jQtR/eOipIHwynDjNcz1GHadwHTipfwjqX4W6/DuT5clavJx+ri5LtHn4Jenk4s6IsRcnB4HetCu3FHV0aAbRg1qUBJOR0zXitHqAgM/pWxX04JGBXsaZwScCvWGFoUwWVm0/xA5+mp3w7px1TxPbRKuUVwz/YVAwcRY710X9mE9rDLeO4DXJA2g+1WSuR7XkzcccpxOqE4YRxA+kYGO1Bvd8KDzZSJG4Rai5/EcenpLdSYRUUkljxXJG/bHc/vmaW4tlmt9+E2nBC1pjHmnXZ8uo8JLlpHZI7WZDkPvc9aZ1KTzNIaCZdpxVS8PftS0fV7aQuGtpFHpRxyftTE2o/vRRJH5gwcgGkkvTTin2UUJTdyWkSUOqTP5PlSYWP0sBU3bXcLSbfMDSdcZquafZGKUyMrMsnLAdqbu7OO2C30X8IwjP3HzSQySjs7Jjg9A/E4JaN1+vpiqRq9u0iNOzksuBg81b2nfUrVLhUcqxzmql4gt3l3xo23Jx1qeWpNstjjxiogNLZbmx/DtIp2MTj2qTtLPZFKq8sy4HFS2g+F7K60vyUYJNFj1dCT3zWl/ZzaUxU5BXG3HegoNRUmtBc4uTjeyDt2h07TSLuQW67yjqfzDPBoUrRySM8MgeInKsKP4k06LVIYrh87R6ZP8p96hdLgktbPyXOdjEL8jNTyLQ8dEkxBQnjOKXwc8DiiDggZ68fat1QA84wKxpWVugIUlckmlrqJpIuvNSDBcY3YAoboCuwDgjrQQyZxvW9VuW1KaISMqRPtAHxU14X1eS9ZreXlk6N71W9fj8rXr1PaU1L+BIvM1Zx7Ln+9fSZ8WP+LaXSPLxZpryKb9zp+nxER5Ir2/hE1s6EZx0ppAAgC4HxXjAivmVKmev2c01fRluQyMNrg8Gqpc6W9s211wffsa67eWKy5bpk9faoifSdylZEVl+a9jxfOcFT6MefxI5N9M5kLePbyDuz71sbWPbkfrV0l8M28jHbuTPsc0JfCSZybhsfavQXm437mF+HNexTWhQDpRrPS5r2QCKM7O7HoKu1v4Ws42LOGkI/mPFS8Gm+kLHEFRe/ap5PqCS+waHhO/vIfSdJjtIwqDp1PuasVlZEbiQFA5z801b6aFTJByOcVIwxBOox7CvFzeQ5O7PThjUVSE47TzJQTnArn/jwyG+hG4+VtO0frXU1YBWxgYXtXMPHADXtsD/IT/etP06V51ZHy41iYDwFfSQa6lruPlTggr7EDg11F4UWEswbg1yHwp6fE1njgh+ldmZQobPccD2qv1LWVV8EvCv09kY5xnBOBWFSkansOuK3YrhiVJ44Io7IpsC5wCR3rDdGqX6A3sUM0a7CTleh7VDoFjcxHG4dKlIwYycqSMcVH3aBZw/etGPoj77PfJ9SyYyQetOy3AW2yewxQIGDJ8UOVdw24yKqju2JTaiI7eVN+HYcGq7GNqYzUvcWaSRySfSEBqJG08Zpo9DrR6kozzjrWs3q+lR9hWwiUZYVoT78fanVXoPS2Q17FuDD+2KhYXa1uRjIZSDVsuIPMHWq9f2xRhIB061u8fImuLPN8nFT5o6RpN6l5p6SHk4wfg061wqgYQ46ZqkeFL/y5DbO3D9PvVz2dK83yMfpzaNmCanBM8Mw7HGK1a52jH1VkkYB5FCEYGRu/tUC1JIhTKCSwwM9q3tb2eykNxDM0JUcsDSMbFmC42461H6lf7v4EZxGvU+5rVjxOUqR6PleVHx8Ve7M1XXtQv3YTXczxE/SWOKh4YJJnIUZA60SKNp5hGvUmrTZ6bHbQgEZI6mvQlNYY0uz5mON5pW+iN06S70+4SaHAZemRkV2Hwh4q097ZVv5ViuAMszjC/pXNzBFwMYx70zEFVcbQQKw5JqW2j0McElR3KLxv4dtFx+JDn/Iuaqvi7xlNrSfhdMHlWp4aRvqP6VRYnCJgxgZ6UxFcqi7dvFTnmk48F0dHx8alyfZ1j8YX0K2t4iqkRAsw6AYrm3iDWEtA5SRWcHKqD1NCk1OWW3EJmkWMDG1WxxUNNbwAkhVAqadvYygl0dDtdXnuNHtr60BN1MgJI4Ckf8A1W1tq97qMpj1GM7go9QHGKrGh+JrXR9OkguImZd3p2jPFSI/aPos0qotjOrSHYd3pAHvmh6cm9dAbXZJ3GoebcTWcHMTYUswrTUrFLBIEjBwVzk1Qdc8VwWU8rWy7nJ9Kh630rx3c6yvk36RxmIehhnmjLBkeNyoEZx58b2Wb8VbrOEeZFk7KW5NHyBuO4VRtT0eG9vhe+c6sMEbamY750iCE5wMZNZpQiknF7fZdKT7LEJVCYAFeyyKqsPiq0urLHw0g+cdqxdTacZyNo9ql6bGqjnviuPy/EV0eMOQwp3wHJs8QhOzxkULxYV/enmfzLWnhSYR+IbQjglsf2r6G+XiV+jyZrh5P/s7DE28Y6YrdgAta26nY33raTOMdq+XdWexHYNkVhyP0pfyFbO1fT7dqOOOBRUxyOnvmhbQ7XsRx09Dz9JoT2MQPLHHxUuUBz/tQng3D5+KeOWSESQjALYZCruI9+1Oqqhe3wMdK1S1RAfTR1XgUHNsakujTaSMYrMY4NFx75xWNgjFBAsGcbGwO3SuYeN3A1OBPaL/AHrp0noibHtXKvHLH97Qj2i/3r0vpavKZfMf9piPhhWPiW025zv6iu2gZT1DnHNcX8GevxPajPQk/wBq7M0pMZCgZ9zTfVpVlS/RLwleO/2KXSKkLZPQ8VCarpc+s2iW8V4bUA5ODgEe1SV6WSMqHBzzg1CG/QBkQ4IrLhtO12amrVMbtbf9220dp+IafZwXJzzWly4HViTSYvVXIDZIrxLxZEy5HBrVGLTbZPVJIbgPlpzkgnpRSwIJBx8YpQXiRw5XBPzQ2nzk5AzTJAaFNRn8uGRfMxuHQd6jISuMnrRNTeMKDu9Y6AVqkZVVJWqpUgx2Y2TxjArdh6OFGce1FSPK8qAR3o0cSbQWY59qXkkU42IeUT14FR97ab1ZeoqfWIAkL164NLXCBkyBTwm09CSxpqmU2zka0uu4ZGrp2nXAu7RJFG445rnOpQmKYS7cDoas3hW/2EwMeCOAa0eUueNTRiwf25uDLe1qXjyHU57e1KtAE9JP9aa8184HQihs4KgY5HSvNNi/RQtVvEhLQwn1n6j7VAkkn5NYXLEsx5NSujaebiUTSL/DHTPevZjGOCGzz8uSfk5bJHRdPECedKMyMOAe1S+R9OK9WPC8Hih5IbA7Vhnk5O2bYY1BUjYBWJUg0ZV56AUONgMsTg17G/Hvg8GpFVS7GclV2jmtS2BmhmTgjvS5Z2JA4x3rlEVsZaXHQigu5OD1FYpGMNya1JGT6cUyQAFw5WMgAk/FIuHkOGACipMqSDxkClJEKkZ/pRWjqIqazRn3Fea0WLycsg6VKyKCPScY96QkiduN2Afaqxm+mybjFbSD22rTKuwjctMtftOu0vtHeo3yQOhNR95K8bbFJBHeujhjOWgPO8cbZZUlRosLj7mhxXRVsAjHSql+JucY8xgPvXizXHQSN/Wrfwv2S/nL2RK+I386WFgQTjtSGkzC01W2mYHEcgJx1rXEjjLkk/NalWQ57g5rTCCjj9My5JueT1DuMN/CMHzVAYcZNFkuYfLJMsagf5hXMrfxOzRDNopYcZPNAvPEFrJuDW2Qy4wDjBrwf6fkcqo9deRiUb5HQ21rTkYqb2Hj/MKLDqdlOfRdRkjsGFcNY7mJx1rZUccjI+1bH9IhX5GT+pu/x/2d9WaL/wBxcf8ANW4njxjzE/8AkK4Kslwo/wASQf8AUa8825J4klx/zGp/0f8A8/8AX/2H+ox/4/7O7td26/VPGPuwpabXNMtziW+gX/rFcPImYeouf1rUQuexp19Ih/lIV/UP+Mf/AN/8HZJfGehwttN4p+UBNNWmu2F4oMVxgHoWUiuJfh29j/SrBp2v3tjai3WKNwowrEcilzfS4KP9t2/2Pi81t1NUdUuLuFYgN/1dMDNcn8XXJu9bkyu0RAIKbTxNq7RtHkc9GI5FRklpPcO0km5mY5JPen8Lx/48nKbB5GT1YcYBfB88Nr4ltpZ5BHEM5ZjgDiupXHiXR7dc/jIyP8pzXJP3bIuMIf6URrKYxFfLYnHaq+TgxZ5qbZPBknii40dFn8aaGSwabO0dQvWqfd+JbVpneAAKx4qv/um6IOImr1dHujwIzRx+H4+Pd/7Ofk53pRJVNfhVyep9xWw15GBAUkduajU0G7JwVAplNBuVHIGPfNU4eOumBT8h+wU6tIy7EOAawX08npEuP1rBo0xHJUCjQ6KVIzjPbFI3hXRVes+zRYJpPUzhj81JLIwGMdB1rWK3aPAIyBTKwJv5GKzymn2aYQa6PFcpyT/amYvNDZAGBXqRlegG09O9MozEKAAF+ai2VQI7nOWPH2oEqdh9NSReMKV280F0AHfB6ZroSBIr97aCaF0x1HWojTJ3tLpcnBQ4NWyWEEkd/tVa1W1NtdLOo9D8H71swStOD9zFmjX3r2L9DP5kCyKcAitulQPh2882A27ckdKsCJ6iDxWGceMqLxaas5MvLD71dbRFSCMKABgcCsrK9TyvxRh8XtjQJBIzxQj9R+9ZWVg9zcjUHrRIz6aysonMI3Dce1er0/SsrKHsdHsBkg8e9YetZWVRHe56oG+vGUMTkZxWVlK+zgLxqImIHNKhFKDisrKMehTxY0/lqJuY0MxytZWVbD+RDJ+IuIkGcLREiTP0isrKrbJxSsLsUJwK8aNP5RWVlJbLNKg9vGgU4XtWhgiJOUBrKykTdsaMVxWg62dv/wC0tHS0gx/hisrKSUpfJeEI/B4baAY/hrWogiDAbBg1lZQUn8k+K+AwgiAP8Na2EUePoFZWVzbDSNkhjbqgNbC2hDcRisrKRtpi0HW3i49Ao+xVTgYrKykk2UQSONWVcjPNY6KIzgVlZSoegKKCDmtwi+1ZWU4oVUUY4Fb4AOMVlZU/kY8aNMH0itYgN4+9ZWUsWMaTACXA6ZoMpO/9Kysqq6RzCqxATBPXFeoSHbnoeKysoe5w2vpiJHXmlXkcsp3dqysoLoLGYQHTcwyfmoTXgGsJM9sEfHNZWUcL/uIjl/BkfoEjLcx4OORV7c/6VlZVfJ/Mlh/BH//Z" /></blockquote> Front of block pic. -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
n/a
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9787&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Someone converted it to use a cam retention plate.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>When did Ford start using the cam plate?  I thought it was mid-1963, but am not sure.  This engine has the phillips head screws used to mount a cam retention plate.<br><br>I wonder if the original holes were simply tapped by a hotrodder to hold the screws, or if the block was originally machined for the cam retention plate.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Someone converted it to use a cam retention plate. -- Dave Shoe, 12/04/2001
When did Ford start using the cam plate? I thought it was mid-1963, but am not sure. This engine has the phillips head screws used to mount a cam retention plate.

I wonder if the original holes were simply tapped by a hotrodder to hold the screws, or if the block was originally machined for the cam retention plate.

Shoe.
 RE: Someone converted it to use a cam retention plate. -- Ranch, 12/04/2001
Dave , you beat me with your post. The upper hole is where you would find the right side lifter gallery the lower is where the dist. gets oil from the #1 cam bearing. So in a hydr. block all you would have to do is tap out the holes. No big deal. I up dated my 62 "06" but my block is solid lifter block. <Hope you got that>.
 RE: Front of block pic. -- Ranch, 12/04/2001
I see your block is prepped to except cam trust plate. This would not have been used in 62 but could have easily been updated. Just an observation
 Main cap pic. -- Joshua Carroll, 12/04/2001
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Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9794&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Thank you for all the help 406 = 390 .80 over</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Joshua Carroll, <i>12/05/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks guys for all the help.  I am convienced at this point that this block is a 1962 390 block that someone bored 80 over at some point to arrive at the 4.13 bore.  The lack of casting numbers and provisions for cross bolts threw me for a loop.  Mike McQuesten's response seems to sum things up.  Again, thank you for the help.  FE guys are great! </blockquote> Thank you for all the help 406 = 390 .80 over -- Joshua Carroll, 12/05/2001
Thanks guys for all the help. I am convienced at this point that this block is a 1962 390 block that someone bored 80 over at some point to arrive at the 4.13 bore. The lack of casting numbers and provisions for cross bolts threw me for a loop. Mike McQuesten's response seems to sum things up. Again, thank you for the help. FE guys are great!
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9795&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Thank you for all the help 406 = 390 .80 over</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>12/05/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Am I remembering correctly?  Aren't the bolts that hold the cam retention plate allen head ones?  I do not remember them being phillips head, not that it really matters. </blockquote> RE: Thank you for all the help 406 = 390 .80 over -- Travis Miller, 12/05/2001
Am I remembering correctly? Aren't the bolts that hold the cam retention plate allen head ones? I do not remember them being phillips head, not that it really matters.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9797&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Allen vs. Phillips..</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>12/05/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I've seen both used.   I think in later production Ford went with phillips.  I purchased a new cam retention plate from a local Ford dealer two years ago and it came with the phillips head type.<br>I think you may have a good block there Joshua.  You should definitley get it sonic checked to make sure you've got plenty of cylinder wall left.  I don't think this overbore on an early 390 block was that uncommon.  I know of two for sure that were done this way.  Back when 406 pistons were available at a reasonable price.<br>Good luck.   </blockquote> RE: Allen vs. Phillips.. -- Mike McQuesten, 12/05/2001
I've seen both used. I think in later production Ford went with phillips. I purchased a new cam retention plate from a local Ford dealer two years ago and it came with the phillips head type.
I think you may have a good block there Joshua. You should definitley get it sonic checked to make sure you've got plenty of cylinder wall left. I don't think this overbore on an early 390 block was that uncommon. I know of two for sure that were done this way. Back when 406 pistons were available at a reasonable price.
Good luck.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9818&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Great pics!!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>P, <i>12/06/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>thanks!<br><br>P </blockquote> Great pics!! -- P, 12/06/2001
thanks!

P
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9822&Reply=9752><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Here's some info for ya !!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>P, <i>12/06/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I just saw a note that the C4AE-A block, which is a 1964 359, 361, 389, 391 "has bosses for cross bolted mains partially cast from 427 molds, reinforcement webs."<br><br>Here's where the info is located (a good page for FE fans to bookmark).<br><br><a href="http://pliverman.home.mindspring.com/index3.htm#Blocks">http://pliverman.home.mindspring.com/index3.htm#Blocks</a><br><br><br>P </blockquote> Here's some info for ya !! -- P, 12/06/2001
I just saw a note that the C4AE-A block, which is a 1964 359, 361, 389, 391 "has bosses for cross bolted mains partially cast from 427 molds, reinforcement webs."

Here's where the info is located (a good page for FE fans to bookmark).

http://pliverman.home.mindspring.com/index3.htm#Blocks


P
 RE: Here's some (more) info -- P, 12/06/2001
Just saw some more info


The C3AE-D, 1963 406 (also) "has bosses but no cross bolts"

P
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9751&Reply=9751><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Block  differecnces .....</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>JP, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I'm not up on the FE engines....could someone tell me the difference between a 427 side oiler block and a 428 cobra jet block?<br><br>Thanks for your time,<br><br>JP </blockquote> Block differecnces ..... -- JP, 12/03/2001
I'm not up on the FE engines....could someone tell me the difference between a 427 side oiler block and a 428 cobra jet block?

Thanks for your time,

JP
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9753&Reply=9751><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Block  differecnces .....</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>First the 427 has a 4.23 bore with a 3.78 stroke while the 428 has a 4.23 bore and a 3.98 stroke.  (The 390 and 406 has the same stroke, 3.78 as the 427 and the 428 has the same bore as the 406.)<br><br>The side oiler part identifies a block that has an added oil gallery on the driver's side of the engine.  This gallery can is easily confirmed by the outside plugs where the engine was drilled to connect this gallery to each main bearing.  <br><br>Also all 427 side oilers have cross bolted main caps.  These caps have bolts from outside the skirt of the crank case into the main caps.  You really need a picture to understand this feature. </blockquote> RE: Block differecnces ..... -- Bob, 12/03/2001
First the 427 has a 4.23 bore with a 3.78 stroke while the 428 has a 4.23 bore and a 3.98 stroke. (The 390 and 406 has the same stroke, 3.78 as the 427 and the 428 has the same bore as the 406.)

The side oiler part identifies a block that has an added oil gallery on the driver's side of the engine. This gallery can is easily confirmed by the outside plugs where the engine was drilled to connect this gallery to each main bearing.

Also all 427 side oilers have cross bolted main caps. These caps have bolts from outside the skirt of the crank case into the main caps. You really need a picture to understand this feature.
 428 has a 4.13" Bore Diameter N/M -- Royce Peterson, 12/03/2001
N/m
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9755&Reply=9751><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Block  differecnces .....</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Oops you are right.  I typed it wrong.  I checked it too, it must be one of those days. </blockquote> RE: Block differecnces ..... -- Bob, 12/03/2001
Oops you are right. I typed it wrong. I checked it too, it must be one of those days.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9761&Reply=9751><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Block  differences .....</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>427...big bore/shorter stroke<br><br>428...smaller bore/longer stroke<br><br>Blocks are cast with different cylinder walls.  No, a 428 cannot be bored out to make a 427. </blockquote> RE: Block differences ..... -- Travis Miller, 12/03/2001
427...big bore/shorter stroke

428...smaller bore/longer stroke

Blocks are cast with different cylinder walls. No, a 428 cannot be bored out to make a 427.
 RE: Block differences ..... -- P, 12/04/2001
I agree with the comments posted about the differences in the blocks. In addition, everything I read indicates the 428 CJ was actually in the 360 to 380 HP range, but was dyno'ed with 390 cast headers and published power was 335. Putting all the parts together and the times that were posted doesn't make sense that the 428 CJ would (only) produce 335 HP. Insurance companies were looking closely, so the understated 335 power rating made some sense, I guess.

(as a side note to the original question posted).

P
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9739&Reply=9739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>'67 410 correct valve covers?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Boyd, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>My '67 Marquis has the standard "POWER BY FORD" blue valve covers. I've heard they were suppose to be the lightning bolt Mercury's. Does anyone know the right ones?Thanks </blockquote> '67 410 correct valve covers? -- Boyd, 12/02/2001
My '67 Marquis has the standard "POWER BY FORD" blue valve covers. I've heard they were suppose to be the lightning bolt Mercury's. Does anyone know the right ones?Thanks
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9741&Reply=9739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: '67 410 correct valve covers?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Alan Casida, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>The tall Mercury pentroof valve covers were for  65-66 models only. The round Power by Ford covers are correct for 67. I took a 410 out of a 67 Merc also and it has the round covers. </blockquote> RE: '67 410 correct valve covers? -- Alan Casida, 12/02/2001
The tall Mercury pentroof valve covers were for 65-66 models only. The round Power by Ford covers are correct for 67. I took a 410 out of a 67 Merc also and it has the round covers.
 RE: Alan is right on! -- Mike McQuesten, 12/03/2001
Just want to affirm Allan's point that the tall, Merc pentroof, lightening bolt, etc. valve covers were used in '65 and '66 only.
I like those valve covers a lot. I looked for them whenever and wherever. I still keep my eyes open for them but I know the days of easy finding are over. I even bought an entire '65 4 door Maurauder with a 390 once just to get those valve covers. 390s weren't that hard to come by then. It hadn't run for a long time. It was a mess. But it gave me one more driver's side valve cover. I wanted to run a twist in oil filler cap on the passenger side too. Had 'em chromed and they looked sharp under the hood of my '66 Cyclone.
Any '67 410 Big Merc I've seen has had the corporate Power By Ford covers.
I just remembered, I still have that mess of a '65 Maurauder. Home to a couple of racoons I believe.
 RE: '67 410 correct valve covers? -- FE427TP, 12/02/2001
my 410 had the lightning bolt valve covers, but I got it from a truck
 RE: '67 410 correct valve covers? -- dennie, 12/02/2001
my 67 merc 390 has blue pbf's i'd bet the car they are original. I have 2 sets of merc pentroofs that are gonna replace them though.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9734&Reply=9734><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>meteor tranny</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Gary h., <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>My son in law gave me a 68 meteor with a 390. Am going to use it for my 67 mustang which is a 390 car originally.I was wondering if anybody knows if the tranny would be a c-4 or c-6 in the meteor as i have not seen the car yet.Also,my mustang was converted to a 351c with a fmx and am trying to figure out what the guys who did it would have changed to do it.I know the rad. is different.Any help would be welcomed.  </blockquote> meteor tranny -- Gary h., 12/02/2001
My son in law gave me a 68 meteor with a 390. Am going to use it for my 67 mustang which is a 390 car originally.I was wondering if anybody knows if the tranny would be a c-4 or c-6 in the meteor as i have not seen the car yet.Also,my mustang was converted to a 351c with a fmx and am trying to figure out what the guys who did it would have changed to do it.I know the rad. is different.Any help would be welcomed.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9765&Reply=9734><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: meteor tranny</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Gary, forgive me here, I can't remember which U.S. model the Canadian Meteor represented?  But it doesn't really matter since you say the Meteor is a '68, I'm sure it's going to be a C-6.<br>Now, if when you get this Meteor, you find out it has a C-4 behind that 390, PLEASE get back to us!  There is a myth that some FE powered Canadian FoMoCo vehicle was produced with a C-4.  I don't believe it but the myth persists.  I'm not trying to stop the myth.  It's kind of a fun dream  that it may have been so for even a short time........nah, couldn't have been. </blockquote> RE: meteor tranny -- Mike McQuesten, 12/04/2001
Gary, forgive me here, I can't remember which U.S. model the Canadian Meteor represented? But it doesn't really matter since you say the Meteor is a '68, I'm sure it's going to be a C-6.
Now, if when you get this Meteor, you find out it has a C-4 behind that 390, PLEASE get back to us! There is a myth that some FE powered Canadian FoMoCo vehicle was produced with a C-4. I don't believe it but the myth persists. I'm not trying to stop the myth. It's kind of a fun dream that it may have been so for even a short time........nah, couldn't have been.
 RE: meteor tranny -- Gary h., 12/05/2001
Thanks Mike. Probebly wont find out till spring,but will post if its a c-4.Meteor is Mercurys ford,basically.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9731&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>OK the latest on my detonation prob</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>As per my phone conversation with Mel Clark before trying to lean the carbs because of the rich fuel mixture,,I drained the tank and installed 114 octane VP fuel,to address the spark knock first,and after engine warm up I set the total timing to 36 and went for a short drive 1 mile and "hurray NO PING" but when I returned ,,turning into the drive the car died it was hard to start and once started I had to really keep the revs up as it acted loaded up(missing etc,like a vac leak),,I checked my ignition system and tryed running the car again using the back carb mostly and still the hard to start situation and miss ,,With the float levels correct I promptly removed the carbs to check for the blown Power valve as several had sugessted I might have had a weak or leaky one that was causing my FAT problem originally,,I was thinking the added Octane fuel may have leaked right by an already compromised PV,, but they where not Blown BAHHH any leads now ??I have the carbs off and they look perfect inside(no dirt etc and correct 66 jets and 6.5 PV and gaskets IS it time for another compression check??that is a 3 hour job as Most of you have these engines in full sized cars not 67 mustang bodies,,boy is it tight in there </blockquote> OK the latest on my detonation prob -- robbie, 12/02/2001
As per my phone conversation with Mel Clark before trying to lean the carbs because of the rich fuel mixture,,I drained the tank and installed 114 octane VP fuel,to address the spark knock first,and after engine warm up I set the total timing to 36 and went for a short drive 1 mile and "hurray NO PING" but when I returned ,,turning into the drive the car died it was hard to start and once started I had to really keep the revs up as it acted loaded up(missing etc,like a vac leak),,I checked my ignition system and tryed running the car again using the back carb mostly and still the hard to start situation and miss ,,With the float levels correct I promptly removed the carbs to check for the blown Power valve as several had sugessted I might have had a weak or leaky one that was causing my FAT problem originally,,I was thinking the added Octane fuel may have leaked right by an already compromised PV,, but they where not Blown BAHHH any leads now ??I have the carbs off and they look perfect inside(no dirt etc and correct 66 jets and 6.5 PV and gaskets IS it time for another compression check??that is a 3 hour job as Most of you have these engines in full sized cars not 67 mustang bodies,,boy is it tight in there
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9733&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>OK, now go back to the orig. thread and read my post about carb bodies being warpped. I don't want to retype it. </blockquote> RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob -- RJP, 12/02/2001
OK, now go back to the orig. thread and read my post about carb bodies being warpped. I don't want to retype it.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9736&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I agree that warpage can be a contributing factor and the carbs are still off with my plans to send them to an expert in carburation(woodruff carbs)How do you explain the fact that it idled fine during warm up but then went away?after a drive,,these carbs have idled fine since I got them </blockquote> RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob -- robbie, 12/02/2001
I agree that warpage can be a contributing factor and the carbs are still off with my plans to send them to an expert in carburation(woodruff carbs)How do you explain the fact that it idled fine during warm up but then went away?after a drive,,these carbs have idled fine since I got them
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9737&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Warpped bodys can do many different things. It depends if one or both surfaces are warpped and/or  the degree of warppage.Thefact that you are running 2x4bbls compounds the problem. I have seen Holleys that have as much as .026" warpage for a 4 bbl, [more for 2 bbls.] It will mimmic a bad power valve, [rich mixture] or have no P/V response [high speed lean out] Hard hot start [fuel bowl draining into the intake manifold] Poor idle due to the idle circuit sucking air. Rich running thru the rpm/load range [sucking extra fuel passed the gasket] No idle adjustment response. These are some of the problems associated with a warpped main body. The cure is to have the bodys milled, a large flat file will only work for minimal warppage. </blockquote> RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob -- RJP, 12/02/2001
Warpped bodys can do many different things. It depends if one or both surfaces are warpped and/or the degree of warppage.Thefact that you are running 2x4bbls compounds the problem. I have seen Holleys that have as much as .026" warpage for a 4 bbl, [more for 2 bbls.] It will mimmic a bad power valve, [rich mixture] or have no P/V response [high speed lean out] Hard hot start [fuel bowl draining into the intake manifold] Poor idle due to the idle circuit sucking air. Rich running thru the rpm/load range [sucking extra fuel passed the gasket] No idle adjustment response. These are some of the problems associated with a warpped main body. The cure is to have the bodys milled, a large flat file will only work for minimal warppage.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9738&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>As to your question about running good during warm-up...think about it..the extra fuel leaking into the manifold is like the choke being closed, cold engines require more fuel to run. </blockquote> RE: OK the latest on my detonation prob -- RJP, 12/02/2001
As to your question about running good during warm-up...think about it..the extra fuel leaking into the manifold is like the choke being closed, cold engines require more fuel to run.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9740&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK i don't buy it</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I had these carbs restored 500 miles ago and the car has run and started no prob other than being fat and a spark knock with more than 30 degrees timming ,,All I did was drain the fuel and put in good fuel  114 octane and after the warm up 10 mins I set the timing to 36 put up my tools and I drove the car down the lane ,,it ran fine and idled fine I waited on traffic and pulled out of the drive and got the car into high gear quickly to see if there was still a ping and then ran it on up to 4500rpms or so and still no ping as I turned back into the drive it died and there we are,,But for the sake of discussion i did remove the carbs and used a piece of glass as a base and checked the metering block base and carb faces they are all within .002-.005(but they are newly restored 600.00 not just kitted)I installed new powervalve and gaskets and still all the same problems won't run less than 2000rpms makes less the 10 lbs vac  </blockquote> RE: OK i don't buy it -- robbie, 12/02/2001
I had these carbs restored 500 miles ago and the car has run and started no prob other than being fat and a spark knock with more than 30 degrees timming ,,All I did was drain the fuel and put in good fuel 114 octane and after the warm up 10 mins I set the timing to 36 put up my tools and I drove the car down the lane ,,it ran fine and idled fine I waited on traffic and pulled out of the drive and got the car into high gear quickly to see if there was still a ping and then ran it on up to 4500rpms or so and still no ping as I turned back into the drive it died and there we are,,But for the sake of discussion i did remove the carbs and used a piece of glass as a base and checked the metering block base and carb faces they are all within .002-.005(but they are newly restored 600.00 not just kitted)I installed new powervalve and gaskets and still all the same problems won't run less than 2000rpms makes less the 10 lbs vac
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9742&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK, Then I guess I can't help you</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>RJP, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Sorry to waste your time. </blockquote> RE: OK, Then I guess I can't help you -- RJP, 12/02/2001
Sorry to waste your time.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9745&Reply=9731><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: OK, Then I guess I can't help you</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I appreciate your help and input and thankyou but I  eliminated that problem even though i didn't understand,,i took the 114 out of the tank and put back in the 93 and all is well less the ping when advanced over 30 total,,Time to drop the compression </blockquote> RE: OK, Then I guess I can't help you -- robbie, 12/02/2001
I appreciate your help and input and thankyou but I eliminated that problem even though i didn't understand,,i took the 114 out of the tank and put back in the 93 and all is well less the ping when advanced over 30 total,,Time to drop the compression
 Robbie's carb problems -- Royce Peterson, 12/02/2001
Robbie,
Robbie,
I have had problems like you are having from time to time on my 8V setup. My easiest method of trouble shooting is to install the carbs on a different car with a single 4V intake one at a time. It sounds like one of your carbs has a metering block not sealing properly as RJP has suggested. Trying the carbs on another car will either prove one of the carbs has a problem or prove that something else is wrong. It is quick and doesn't cost anything unless you tear up a base gasket.

I had the same symptoms as you once and it turned out to be a bad pcv valve after I had rebuilt both carbs. You could also have a number of other problems like a bad distributor, intake manifold gasket. or who knows what else. You have to substitute your parts onto another working vehicle or substitute known good parts onto yours and just eliminate the possibilities, starting with the most obvious and easiest things first.

Royce Peterson
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9728&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>tell me where I can do the research myself?
At this point all I can do is know what year they are.
C7DX-9425-A  dual quad intake
C5TA-7505-7 bell housing
C8AE-6059-B timing cover
C3AE-6059-? timing cover
C7AE-A heads
C3AE-6090D heads
C8AE-H heads
C6AE-U heads
Still looking for the CJ block and head numbers
So far the block is C6ME-A , passenger side oiler bolts, Big "A" on back, 26 DISK on drvr side front, 26 352 on back, 352 35 on oil valley.

  </blockquote> Can someone identify these numbers or... -- Jim, 12/02/2001
tell me where I can do the research myself? At this point all I can do is know what year they are. C7DX-9425-A dual quad intake C5TA-7505-7 bell housing C8AE-6059-B timing cover C3AE-6059-? timing cover C7AE-A heads C3AE-6090D heads C8AE-H heads C6AE-U heads Still looking for the CJ block and head numbers So far the block is C6ME-A , passenger side oiler bolts, Big "A" on back, 26 DISK on drvr side front, 26 352 on back, 352 35 on oil valley.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9730&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Could the intake be C7ZX?? the C7AE A heads are 66-68 352-390-410-428 heads(may or may not be smog)same as CJ head but has smaller valves--the C3AE D head is 427 low riser same as CJ other than it has smaller Combustion chambers--C6AE U heads is 66-68 390 and is the same head as you C7AE A head--C6ME A block could be standard 428 or PI but most likely not CJ also it may be a mechanical lifter only block(no lifter oil galleries),, look for the extra support in the main cap webbing it is then PI the CJ are most likely gonna be C7ME A-or C  I have seen all these blocks have or not have CJ-PI webbing  </blockquote> RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- robbie, 12/02/2001
Could the intake be C7ZX?? the C7AE A heads are 66-68 352-390-410-428 heads(may or may not be smog)same as CJ head but has smaller valves--the C3AE D head is 427 low riser same as CJ other than it has smaller Combustion chambers--C6AE U heads is 66-68 390 and is the same head as you C7AE A head--C6ME A block could be standard 428 or PI but most likely not CJ also it may be a mechanical lifter only block(no lifter oil galleries),, look for the extra support in the main cap webbing it is then PI the CJ are most likely gonna be C7ME A-or C I have seen all these blocks have or not have CJ-PI webbing
 RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- Jim, 12/02/2001
Hey Robbie, You are right...the intake is C7ZX-9425-A for sure. What can you tell me about it? Is there a known RPM range for this intake? What did it come on? What carbs came stock on it? Is there a casting date code on it somewhere?............. The C7EA-A date codes 6K21/6H11 have smog holes. These are the original heads of of my '67 390 GTA Mustang Aren't they 390 GT heads though? What designates 390 GT heads?............ Hmmm,so the C3AE-D are 427 low riser heads? What is the size of the combustion chambers on the C3AE D heads? What is the difference between low, medium, and high riser heads? Is it just the combustion chamber sizes and/or valve sizes? I think you are right again that I DO NOT have a CJ block :().... it is definately C6ME-A date code 6L4, It has a "Y" webbing and not the "W" looking webbing on the main supports. The main caps have 1C 2AE on them. There is 3 (lifter galley?) holes above the cam hole on the back and one below it but I dont see any threads in the holes. Tha 2 inch "A" on the back looks like it was scratched into the sand and not welded and there is a 3/8 inch 26 above a 3/8 inch 352. The upper left front of the block has a 1/4 inch 20 above a 3/8 inch 352 and there is an upside 1/4 inch upside down stamped 72S....Okay, Im sitting down...tell me if it is a CJ or not....Oh well, I am not a CJ owner :(....Most likely it is a PI block then becuase I got it from a Cop in the mid 70's unless the PI blocks ONLY have "W" webbing on the mains. Would that mean that it is just a standard 428 block?....... Thanks Robbie ..
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9767&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dennis, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Most of Robbie's info is correct, except for the fact that the C7AE-A and C6AE-U Heads are not the same as 428 CJ heads. They both have smaller chambers, valves and Intake ports. Ht is 1.93" vs 2.34" On CJ/LR heads. Also C7-C6 Heads will have either 14 or 8 bolt exhaust pattern, not 16 bolt. Also, I have never seen( in 30 years) an 'A' CJ block, or solid lifter 'A' block.  </blockquote> RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- Dennis, 12/04/2001
Most of Robbie's info is correct, except for the fact that the C7AE-A and C6AE-U Heads are not the same as 428 CJ heads. They both have smaller chambers, valves and Intake ports. Ht is 1.93" vs 2.34" On CJ/LR heads. Also C7-C6 Heads will have either 14 or 8 bolt exhaust pattern, not 16 bolt. Also, I have never seen( in 30 years) an 'A' CJ block, or solid lifter 'A' block.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9768&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks Dennis that is correct ,,Info that i over looked while looking them up </blockquote> RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- robbie, 12/04/2001
Thanks Dennis that is correct ,,Info that i over looked while looking them up
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9788&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dennis, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>No problem. I've run so many of them I could probably feel the difference in the dark, lol. Dennis </blockquote> RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- Dennis, 12/04/2001
No problem. I've run so many of them I could probably feel the difference in the dark, lol. Dennis
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9793&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Can someone identify these numbers or...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>robbie, <i>12/05/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I admire a guy that knows his parts BUT if you can tell the difference in the dark you should get a girl friend ,,HEHEHE just kidding I feel that way about small blocks I've only been an FE man for 2 years,It seems ford did alot of the same things but named it something different the next time,,and also made real minor changes ,,I think mostly due to costs of production??<br><br>Robbie </blockquote> RE: Can someone identify these numbers or... -- robbie, 12/05/2001
I admire a guy that knows his parts BUT if you can tell the difference in the dark you should get a girl friend ,,HEHEHE just kidding I feel that way about small blocks I've only been an FE man for 2 years,It seems ford did alot of the same things but named it something different the next time,,and also made real minor changes ,,I think mostly due to costs of production??

Robbie
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9815&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: I knew Robbie was full of ....</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/06/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>You know how those Missouri (how the heck do you spell that) guys are
Hi Robbie. Luv ya man. </blockquote> RE: I knew Robbie was full of .... -- Jim, 12/06/2001
You know how those Missouri (how the heck do you spell that) guys are Hi Robbie. Luv ya man.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9816&Reply=9728><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: And furthermore Robbie...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/06/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Are you going to buy my 2x4 C7ZX-9425-A before eBay gets it?
Boy I hope nobody else reads this lol
 </blockquote> RE: And furthermore Robbie... -- Jim, 12/06/2001
Are you going to buy my 2x4 C7ZX-9425-A before eBay gets it? Boy I hope nobody else reads this lol
 RE: And furthermore Robbie... -- robbie, 12/06/2001
This really should get you some emails ,,And hey Missouri is close to alot of really good states like umm,or aaaa,well IT IS,, hehe,,THAT
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9723&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>How Rare</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Tom, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>How rare is a 66 Comet Convertable  that came with a 289 </blockquote> How Rare -- Tom, 12/02/2001
How rare is a 66 Comet Convertable that came with a 289
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9725&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Check out NADA classic site</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>A '66 Comet convertible is pretty darn rare.  But with a 289 it's not considered in the muscle car class which reduces its value.  <br>I would suggest checking out the NADA classic car site.  Check out Mercury Comet, '66, etc.  You'll get a rough idea.   <br> </blockquote> RE: Check out NADA classic site -- Mike McQuesten, 12/02/2001
A '66 Comet convertible is pretty darn rare. But with a 289 it's not considered in the muscle car class which reduces its value.
I would suggest checking out the NADA classic car site. Check out Mercury Comet, '66, etc. You'll get a rough idea.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9727&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Check out NADA classic site</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Tom, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>what is the link to the site also to vin numbers have been cut out of the car ALL of them so it kinda becomes whatever motor i out it in and get a vun made for it </blockquote> RE: Check out NADA classic site -- Tom, 12/02/2001
what is the link to the site also to vin numbers have been cut out of the car ALL of them so it kinda becomes whatever motor i out it in and get a vun made for it
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9732&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Check out NADA classic site</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Royce Peterson, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>If the car has all the VIN numbers cut off it is virtually worthless and probably illegal depending which state you live in. You better have a rebuilder's title or a police auction bill of sale for something like this to avoid trouble.<br><br>The NADA site is one of those tricky URL's:<br>www.nada.com<br><br>Click on the "Free Consumer pricing information" then on the Classic section, then Mercury, etc.<br><br>Royce Peterson </blockquote> RE: Check out NADA classic site -- Royce Peterson, 12/02/2001
If the car has all the VIN numbers cut off it is virtually worthless and probably illegal depending which state you live in. You better have a rebuilder's title or a police auction bill of sale for something like this to avoid trouble.

The NADA site is one of those tricky URL's:
www.nada.com

Click on the "Free Consumer pricing information" then on the Classic section, then Mercury, etc.

Royce Peterson
 RE: Check out NADA classic site -- Tom, 12/02/2001
the car in a in junk yard and i can the vin problem takin care of
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9749&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Not accurate.......</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ed Jenkins, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>....They don't list all options and engines that each car had. They also have some options mixed up. <br> </blockquote> Not accurate....... -- Ed Jenkins, 12/03/2001
....They don't list all options and engines that each car had. They also have some options mixed up.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9750&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Not accurate.......</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Tom, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>thank you i think they rated the car at 8800 but i wanted to know production figures </blockquote> RE: Not accurate....... -- Tom, 12/03/2001
thank you i think they rated the car at 8800 but i wanted to know production figures
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9756&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Options</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Lou, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have found that with the exception of engine & transmission options, that options add very little to the value of a collector car. I well option car will sell before a stripped model with the same drive line but not for more money. <br> </blockquote> Options -- Lou, 12/03/2001
I have found that with the exception of engine & transmission options, that options add very little to the value of a collector car. I well option car will sell before a stripped model with the same drive line but not for more money.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9757&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Options</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Tom, <i>12/03/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>i just wanna know how many 66 Comet convertables  were made </blockquote> RE: Options -- Tom, 12/03/2001
i just wanna know how many 66 Comet convertables were made
 RE:check out the Fairlane Club -- Mike McQuesten, 12/03/2001
Okay Tom, you got me out in the shop digging through a pile of old resources and I couldn't find it. As a former owner of a '66 Cyclone GT I had some of these production numbers down ....that was then but you know how that goes.
I would suggest checking at the Fairlane Club of America web site. I was a member way back when, founding member number 9 even. And I think there's a Comet club too.
I can say that there wasn't too many '66 Comet convertibles made in comparison to regular Comets. It seems like there were just under 3,000 GT 390 Cyclone converts in '66. Still that doesn't help you.
If you want to talk rare Comets, I do remember that there were even fewer '67 Comet sport models made than '66. Easy guess why .....the mighty Cougar rolled onto the streets. Same reason '67 Fairlane big block production went down, the FE was available in the Mustang.
So check those sites out for Fairlanes & Comets. The production figures you seek are out there.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9770&Reply=9723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Try these sites . . .</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Orin, <i>12/04/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote><a href="http://www.jumpthegun.com/cyclone/cyclone.HTM">http://www.jumpthegun.com/cyclone/cyclone.HTM</a><br><br><a href="http://perso.wanadoo.fr/acmacm/acmacm/mercurycometp02us">http://perso.wanadoo.fr/acmacm/acmacm/mercurycometp02us</a><br><br><a href="http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/mercury-comet/mercury-comet-history.html">http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/mercury-comet/mercury-comet-history.html</a><br><br>good luck! </blockquote> Try these sites . . . -- Orin, 12/04/2001
http://www.jumpthegun.com/cyclone/cyclone.HTM

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/acmacm/acmacm/mercurycometp02us

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/mercury-comet/mercury-comet-history.html

good luck!
 Just ask! -- Lou, 12/06/2001
1966 CometsConvertibles
76D Caliente Conv bench seat 3298,
76B Caliente with bucket seats 624,
76C Cyclone Conv 1305,
76H Cyclone GT conv 2158
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9720&Reply=9720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>67 289 Mustang FE conversion...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/01/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>My step son to be just got a clean but tired 289/C4 Mustang.
Does anyone know what it takes to convert over to a FE/C6?
I assume engine stands, BB coil Springs, trans mounts, driveshaft shortening, and radiator all need to be changed.
Thanks </blockquote> 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Jim, 12/01/2001
My step son to be just got a clean but tired 289/C4 Mustang. Does anyone know what it takes to convert over to a FE/C6? I assume engine stands, BB coil Springs, trans mounts, driveshaft shortening, and radiator all need to be changed. Thanks
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9721&Reply=9720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Will, <i>12/01/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I did that too.<br><br>The 67 frame mounts are the same.  Just get FE motor mounts (isolators).  The 68 frame mounts are different for the FE (so I've heard), so be glad you have a 67.<br><br>The trans crossmember is the same too.  I'm running a toploader, but I bet the C-6 uses the same crossmember as well.<br><br>You may be able to use your old driveshaft w/out shortening it, but you can get brand new aluminum driveshafts for a few hundred dollars.  I bought one from a shop in Florida.  It's purty.  You'll need the C-6 trans yoke, 'cause it's different than the C-4.<br><br>Contrary to what's been written, the FE doesn't weigh that much more than the 289 if you use an aluminum intake.  I've heard people say their's weighed something like 500 lbs.  Still, I'm running 600 lb springs, and I like 'em.  The front end doesn't feel too stiff.  Besides, the springs were only about $75, so they were no-brainers.<br><br>Look out for interference with the sway bar.  I had the standard 90 degree oil filter adapter, and the oil filter hit the sway bar.  Later I found out the big block had a different sway bar.  I also had a remove filter mount, so I just swapped that on.  There are some oil filter mounts that should work, but the remote mount is easy too, and makes oil changes easier and cleaner.<br><br>I bought a radiator from a Mustang shop.  They sent the wrong one.  The lower hose was on the wrong side.  It was easier to take it to a radiator shop to move to the other side, but they screwed it up.  The radiator later started leaking, so I just said, "screw it", and I bought another.  This time I got the right one.  I'm running electric fans, but a flex fan should work fine.<br><br>The only other thing I can think of is the exhaust.  If you use manifolds, you'll want either the expensive CJ manifolds or the 390GT manifolds.  If you run headers, check out the FPA headers.  I have Hookers.  They sound and work great, but they hang too low.  Also, make sure you check the matching of the exhaust ports.  Shoe has posted many times about the difference in the height of the exhaust ports between the pre and post emission days.<br><br>Hope this helps.<br><br>wk. </blockquote> RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Will, 12/01/2001
I did that too.

The 67 frame mounts are the same. Just get FE motor mounts (isolators). The 68 frame mounts are different for the FE (so I've heard), so be glad you have a 67.

The trans crossmember is the same too. I'm running a toploader, but I bet the C-6 uses the same crossmember as well.

You may be able to use your old driveshaft w/out shortening it, but you can get brand new aluminum driveshafts for a few hundred dollars. I bought one from a shop in Florida. It's purty. You'll need the C-6 trans yoke, 'cause it's different than the C-4.

Contrary to what's been written, the FE doesn't weigh that much more than the 289 if you use an aluminum intake. I've heard people say their's weighed something like 500 lbs. Still, I'm running 600 lb springs, and I like 'em. The front end doesn't feel too stiff. Besides, the springs were only about $75, so they were no-brainers.

Look out for interference with the sway bar. I had the standard 90 degree oil filter adapter, and the oil filter hit the sway bar. Later I found out the big block had a different sway bar. I also had a remove filter mount, so I just swapped that on. There are some oil filter mounts that should work, but the remote mount is easy too, and makes oil changes easier and cleaner.

I bought a radiator from a Mustang shop. They sent the wrong one. The lower hose was on the wrong side. It was easier to take it to a radiator shop to move to the other side, but they screwed it up. The radiator later started leaking, so I just said, "screw it", and I bought another. This time I got the right one. I'm running electric fans, but a flex fan should work fine.

The only other thing I can think of is the exhaust. If you use manifolds, you'll want either the expensive CJ manifolds or the 390GT manifolds. If you run headers, check out the FPA headers. I have Hookers. They sound and work great, but they hang too low. Also, make sure you check the matching of the exhaust ports. Shoe has posted many times about the difference in the height of the exhaust ports between the pre and post emission days.

Hope this helps.

wk.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9726&Reply=9720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Hi Will,
Thanks for the info!
I saw  67 390 frame stands on Ebay... 
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=598408610
the">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=598408610
the</a> guy says I need them to convert from SB to FE.
But you dont think I do?
If so, thanks! You saved me $50 bucks. If not, I'll find them somewhere else later.

I had a 390 67 GTA years ago and still have the Hookers and remote oil filter setup.
I think the 390 GTA Hookers will work on any FE? They have the big exhaust ports and 16 hole mounting I think.
I like your electric fan set up and will probably do the same now that I think about it.
Haven't even looked at his radiator yet. But I know 390 are drvrs intake and pass outlet for the cooling system. I cant remember what his inlet/outlet on his 289 radiator are. Do you?
Can I just use his stock new 289 radiator with the 390 and electric fan if they are on the correct sides?

His springs are new  stock 289 ones.  With an Aluminum intake will they handle the 390?
I have plenty of yokes to use.
The trans mounting is the tricky part at this point.

Thanks again,
Jim



.

 </blockquote> RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Jim, 12/02/2001
Hi Will, Thanks for the info! I saw 67 390 frame stands on Ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=598408610 the guy says I need them to convert from SB to FE. But you dont think I do? If so, thanks! You saved me $50 bucks. If not, I'll find them somewhere else later. I had a 390 67 GTA years ago and still have the Hookers and remote oil filter setup. I think the 390 GTA Hookers will work on any FE? They have the big exhaust ports and 16 hole mounting I think. I like your electric fan set up and will probably do the same now that I think about it. Haven't even looked at his radiator yet. But I know 390 are drvrs intake and pass outlet for the cooling system. I cant remember what his inlet/outlet on his 289 radiator are. Do you? Can I just use his stock new 289 radiator with the 390 and electric fan if they are on the correct sides? His springs are new stock 289 ones. With an Aluminum intake will they handle the 390? I have plenty of yokes to use. The trans mounting is the tricky part at this point. Thanks again, Jim .
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9735&Reply=9720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Will, <i>12/02/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>Several months ago, there was a thread where some people said you needed the frame mounts, others said you didn't.  The conclusion was that the frame mounts for 67 were the same, but they changed in 68.  I've never compared the 68-70 mounts (SB vs BB).  I think the 68-70 mounts just needed a hole drilled for a BB.  All I know is that I didn't change the frame mounts when I went from a 289 to a 428.<br><br>I have Hooker super comps and Edel heads.  They fit fine, but they hang down too low.  I have to go over speed bumps pretty slow to avoid dragging.  The 390 GT has 14 exhaust bolts vs. 16 bolts for the CJ.  Also, the vertical holes on the last port are closer together than the CJ.  I have a set of CJ heads where the previous owner drilled an extra hole to fit 390 GT exhaust manifolds.  All I know about your headers is that you should check the bolt pattern and port matchup before installing the engine.<br><br>I think the 289 radiator has a pass-side upper and drivers-side lower, but it's been so long, I'm just guessing.  Even if it fits, I don't think it's big enough to cool a big block.  You could always try it since you're not out anything if it doesn't work.<br><br>The springs are probably also one of those things that will work, but 600# springs might work better.  Why not try it and see?<br><br>For the trans mounting...  I would bet you could use the 289/C-4 crossmember with a standard C-6 trans mount.  The shifter should fit the same.  So should the speedo cable.  You'll probably have to bend the cooling lines a little, but that isn't a big deal.  You may have to buy a Mustang specific neutral safety switch.  I don't know about that.  The only unknown is the driveshaft, and the worst case is you have to lengthen or shorten the shaft.  I wouldn't spend time shortening a 35 year-old driveshaft, though.  I still have the one from my 67, and it's a rusted piece of junk.<br><br>One other thing is planning for the additional power of the engine.  The 8-inch rears aren't that strong.  I broke one to pieces with a 302.  Make sure the brakes are in great shape.  The last thing you want to do is to build a death trap for your stepson. </blockquote> RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Will, 12/02/2001
Several months ago, there was a thread where some people said you needed the frame mounts, others said you didn't. The conclusion was that the frame mounts for 67 were the same, but they changed in 68. I've never compared the 68-70 mounts (SB vs BB). I think the 68-70 mounts just needed a hole drilled for a BB. All I know is that I didn't change the frame mounts when I went from a 289 to a 428.

I have Hooker super comps and Edel heads. They fit fine, but they hang down too low. I have to go over speed bumps pretty slow to avoid dragging. The 390 GT has 14 exhaust bolts vs. 16 bolts for the CJ. Also, the vertical holes on the last port are closer together than the CJ. I have a set of CJ heads where the previous owner drilled an extra hole to fit 390 GT exhaust manifolds. All I know about your headers is that you should check the bolt pattern and port matchup before installing the engine.

I think the 289 radiator has a pass-side upper and drivers-side lower, but it's been so long, I'm just guessing. Even if it fits, I don't think it's big enough to cool a big block. You could always try it since you're not out anything if it doesn't work.

The springs are probably also one of those things that will work, but 600# springs might work better. Why not try it and see?

For the trans mounting... I would bet you could use the 289/C-4 crossmember with a standard C-6 trans mount. The shifter should fit the same. So should the speedo cable. You'll probably have to bend the cooling lines a little, but that isn't a big deal. You may have to buy a Mustang specific neutral safety switch. I don't know about that. The only unknown is the driveshaft, and the worst case is you have to lengthen or shorten the shaft. I wouldn't spend time shortening a 35 year-old driveshaft, though. I still have the one from my 67, and it's a rusted piece of junk.

One other thing is planning for the additional power of the engine. The 8-inch rears aren't that strong. I broke one to pieces with a 302. Make sure the brakes are in great shape. The last thing you want to do is to build a death trap for your stepson.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=9862&Reply=9720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>dave, <i>12/07/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>I'm just finishing my 67 GTA/390 C-6. You will need a C-6 tranny cross mount. It is different then the C-4. Hard to find in So. Calif., used anywhere from 65-100$. Either Mustangs unlimited or Virg. Mustang has a new one for 69.00. Very similar in appearance to the factory.<br>You also need the engine mounts that bolt to the block, that connect to the isolators. I had some difficulty finding used ones in Calif. Same parts store has  repops for reasonable price.<br> Good Luck on the conversion! </blockquote> RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- dave, 12/07/2001
I'm just finishing my 67 GTA/390 C-6. You will need a C-6 tranny cross mount. It is different then the C-4. Hard to find in So. Calif., used anywhere from 65-100$. Either Mustangs unlimited or Virg. Mustang has a new one for 69.00. Very similar in appearance to the factory.
You also need the engine mounts that bolt to the block, that connect to the isolators. I had some difficulty finding used ones in Calif. Same parts store has repops for reasonable price.
Good Luck on the conversion!
 RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Jim, 12/07/2001
Thanks Dave and Will. I missed the notification on this thread. I'll save all this info for the summer coversion project. I know I have several engine mounts and i think I have at least one GTA trans mounts laying around here somewhere left over from the old days
 RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Will, 12/07/2001
See dave's post.
 RE: 67 289 Mustang FE conversion... -- Dave Alton, 12/07/2001
Let me share some things I learned while doing my 67GTA FE. I put in a aftermarket 3 core radiator and I had a 2 core recored to four. Had to use 68 lower brackets, 67's would n't work. Could not find the correct 18 1/4 stock fan for the application and the fan clutch listed by Hayden/Imperial for a 67 big block did not fit , no clearance.
Used a Hayden 18" fan and a fan clutch part#2711. Most of the books list a 2710 for the 67, would not fit on mine(probably would fit a 2 core.
Used Ford Power Parts headers(Tri-y's) , dropped into engine bay bolted on engine, fit great. If you get a new rebuild that hasn't been fired. I would suggest you get it test fired and run for 2-3 hours before installation. I had my engine dialed in before dropping it in, made it simple to fire up after install( one crank and varoom). We also found a couple oil leaks that would have been a bear to fix with the engine in the car.
I dropped the front A arms 1 inch per the insert in Tony Branda's catalog, used 600 springs. After installing engine, front end was in the weeds. Had to put a 1" urathane spacer in to bring it up a little. You also have to use a big block sway bar if you want to use the stock oil filler location, otherwise stock Ford F1A filter won't fit. Enough for now.
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