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| will thunder jet fit 68 fairlane -- curtis, 11/19/2001
I just bought a 1968 fairlane 500 fastback and was woundering if a 1970 429 4V thunder jet out of a thunderbird would drop right in. The fairlaine is a original 390 GT car. |
| | RE: will thunder jet fit 68 fairlane -- Mike McQuesten, 11/19/2001
Yup, it fits right in there! With the right parts of course. The right transmission. The bell housings of a 429 and an FE are not interchangeable. You will need the correct engine mounts/towers. Actually the small block V-8 base mounts are preferablefor accepting the engine mounts for a 429/460.
See Crites Reproductions for most of the pieces and parts you'll need for this farely common swap.
Of course I have to ask....does your '68 still have the 390 in it? It sounds like it may not have. If the car is missing a lot of the original parts, you might want to go this route. |
| | | RE: will thunder jet fit 68 fairlane -- curtis, 11/19/2001
I still have the original 390 GT heads, intake, and manifolds. I plan on rebuilding the 390 because i want to restore the car, I just want to slap in the big daddy just to rip around. The fairlane has all the original parts complete with power windows, power locks, and am fm stereo, and only for $400 canadian! |
| | | | RE: will thunder jet fit 68 fairlane -- Mike McQuesten, 11/20/2001
That's seems to be a rare optioned '68 Fairlane Curtis. It's a Fairlane fastback? Not a loaded Torino GT car? It just seems odd that it has all those power accessories with a Fairlane model and not the upscale Torino. Whatever, as I said, the 429/correct trans will fit in but it's really not a simple bolt in unless you have all the correct parts at hand. Good luck. |
| correct 428 valve covers on 66 cobra? -- Keith Hall, 11/19/2001
What is the correct valve cover for a 1966 427R model Cobra with a 428 engine? Legend has it that the first 120 units built (S/C model) in 66 came with the 427 eng and the remainder with 428s (which were much cheeper from Ford), I have a pic of a 66 427R model that has chrome valve covers with the 427 badge. Is it possible that all big blocks had the same valve covers?
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| | The covers depicted are not 'factory' 66/67 [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/19/2001
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| | RE: correct 428 valve covers on 66 cobra? -- Mel Clark, 11/19/2001
The angle of the pic is not good for identification purposes. Can you post another? The covers shown do look like the no name pent roof design that came on the early '60s 390 - 427 and Hi-Riser engines. The dress up kits that I've seen had the plain rounded covers. |
| | | Correct covers were finned aluminum, "Cobra- LeMans" [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/19/2001
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| | | | Re: not always -- Mel Clark, 11/19/2001
The June 1967 car mag "Speed & Supercar" has a feature on page 43 of Motion Performance's King Cobra that shows the engine with similar chrome covers and the stick-on 427 emblems. Not all Cobras came with finned aluminum valve covers and those that did had s couple variations of sand cast covers that I know of, the "Cobra LeMans" and the "Cobra 427". |
| | | | | Got a period photo of a Cobra roadster, as evidence? [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/19/2001
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| | | | | | RE: YUP, Sure do. -- Mel Clark, 11/19/2001
I have tried to cut the byte size to where it will be accepable but am unable, email an email address and I can do that or I'll post it some time tomorrow. |
| | | | | | | RE: YUP, Sure do. -- Mel Clark, 11/21/2001
I think it will load this time
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| | | | | | | | Hey, Mel - you scanned a photocopy, right?[n/m] -- Mr F, 11/21/2001
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| | | | | | | | | RE: Correct -- Mel Clark, 11/21/2001
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| | | Covers shown appear to recent repros. [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/20/2001
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| | | | RE: Covers shown appear to recent repros. [n/m] -- kevin, 11/20/2001
I agree with you Allen, that these are repro's. The Cobra's came with a closed valve cover (no vent caps), that was the tall pentroof style. I was fortunate enough to be in the car that was in the movie "The Gumball Rally" and that is what was on that car, plus many others that I saw. That car had a Med riser with a sidewinder on it. In reference to an "R" ( I think he means SC) car remember that the induction was a full ram air with an air box surrounding the carb. In an earlier post I saw the question of differences in a 428 vs 427 car. From memory a 427 was used with top oiler and low riser quads with box/log manifolds. If you opted for the SC then you got the side oiler with a single four barrel, headers and other goodies. The 428 P.I. was used with a set of C-3-J head castings and a medium riser intake, and put out 390 horespower with the 306 cam that was stock in a P.I. Twenty five years ago I had a friend with a towing service, and he had brought in a destroyed 65 Cobra that had sat in a creek bed for ten years. I pulled it apart and was suprised to find the same cast crank that was in my Hi-Risers. Being all original with that in a side oiler block to boot, I never figured that one out. They did some mighty strange things back then. |
| | | | | Chrome Covers, Maybe, Maybe Not? -- Chip, 11/20/2001
While you guys are debating on what was used on the original Cobra 427, some things are apparent. Some of you need to realize that Shelby / Ford did not always stick to exact parts for these cars, they used what was available at the time of assembly. The fact that the Gumball car had a sidewinder on it is an example of someone likely changing out the original intake, I don't think it was available when that car was made. That movie was made in the 70's, it is likely by that time that many similar changes had been made to that car. An original Cobra 427 engine with a cast crank would not be at all a surprise. Someone at shelby probably kept the original for their racing team, the buyer non the wiser. The car would make the same power and apparently the crank was not the demise of the Cobra mentioned. The Shelby Mustangs also have examples of the same "its all I had" practice. Shelbys and Cobras cars are mutually exclusive from exactly the same parts in many cases. By the way, those chrome valve covers could have been used, or they could be a repro. I have an original undented set that need only replating. Chip |
| | | | | | RE: Cobra Engine Builds.... -- Mel Clark, 11/21/2001
Shelby Built very few FE engines as Ford supplied all of the engines ready for installation. The vast majority that they modified recieved top end treatment of porting and polishing and sometimes a cam change. If the buyer was a real high roller he might have opted for the Hi-Riser set up or aluminum heads or even a complete build up, but very few would spend several thousand more for a max race engine. It was a case of too much being almost enough and most buyers already had too much with either the 427 or the 428 in a Cobra. Besides, if the buyer was good a enough racer Ford or Shelby would give him whatever parts he needed or wanted. Ford was pretty liberal at that time. |
| Fe & c4? -- Mike McQuesten, 11/19/2001
A friend of mine needs help and he asked me to post this for information. He's building a '36 Ford Coupe. With a mouse? No Way! With a Windsor? Maybe. Unless he can find an adaptor/bell housing that will allow a C-4 with our friend the mighty FE. Yup, he's daring to think differently and he's strongly considering running what is now considered an "alternative power" source for a street rod. He doesn't want to run a C-6, a cruiso or a cruiso with an FMX valve body. Due to space and X member considerations of the little '36 coupe, he wants a C-4. So does anyone have one of those Canadian FE C-4 bellhousings? We all know that there were vans built in Canada with C-4s! I actually thought that this was true at one time. Wishful thinking. Or does anyone know for sure who makes the adaptive equipment for this? I did check the Baumann Engineering website and I could find nothing mentioned about them offering adaptation for this. Thanks.
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| | FE427 and C4 is a hot combo in a lightweight Ford. -- Dave Shoe, 11/19/2001
A properly built C4 tucks right behind an FE427 in a lightweight streetable dragster application. Granted the C6 is made for the torque of the FE, but the C4 has been developed to the point where a serious racer (it is more expensive to run a C4 than a C6, so you'd better be serious) can shave some valuable pounds and free up some horsepower when properly applied (your friends '36 sounds like a proper application). You can expect more frequent tranny rebuilds and repairs with a C4, but this is often of secondary concern when it comes to speed.
If your friend still needs some motivation, pick up the Boss Martian's latest CD release called "MOVE!". It'll seal the deal. I'm not kidding. They've got one fine song about a C4, a 427, and a '39 3-window Coupe - and it's technically accurate, as the 'Martians always are.
Shoe. |
| | | RE: Boss Martians? -- Mike McQuesten, 11/19/2001
I have a hunch the Boss Martians may be distributed through an "indy label". I'd like to know more about them. If they're even technically close, they rock with guitars, base and drums, I'm up for a listen.
My friend Andy's '36 will be powered by a mild FE. Probably a 390. It'll be a low ridin' cruiser. He does have a big right foot so the loud pedal will be depressed occassionally. As you say, a well built C4 should work fine with this lightweight vehicle. Most importantly to him, it's a compact tranny. Oh, and he doesn't want a stick shift with this car.
Who makes an adaptor/bell housing for this? |
| | | RE: FE427 and C4 is a hot combo in a lightweight Ford. -- Travis Miller, 11/19/2001
You can stop looking for the elusive Canadian truck bell housing that hooks a C4 to a FE. That was all a hoax. Seems that a well known transmission builder cut the front portion off of a C6 and welded the flat rear section of a C4 bell housing to it, making it an adaptor. He has since had them cast up but will only sell the bellhousing with a racing C4. Hardly streetable to say the least.
Look at any streetrod magazine and you will see advertizements showing aftermarket early Ford frames. You will see how the X is modified and will accept any type transmission you want to use. Just copy the design.
Go with the C6 behind the FE. It is strong, dependable, and can be made to run as quick as a C4 with a lot less breakage.
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| | | | I think it's wise to go with Travis on this one. -- Dave Shoe, 11/19/2001
I'm very interested in learning more about C4 applications behind an FE, and there was a really cool thread on it about a month or two ago (I can't find it right now).
This thread got me to realizing the C4 is powering a lot of nitrous injected 5.0 and 5.7 blocks which put out up to 1000 horsepower. It's obviously been looked at very closely by some tranny shops. Apparently there is one tranny shop that is selling one which has been adapted to fit the FE. Quoting from a magazine article, that thread mentioned the shop has a 700HP version and a 1000 HP version of the FE-compatible C4.
I suspect there may be some streetability issues with this expensive and hevily modified C4 transmission, but the thread did make it sound (perhaps incorrectly) as though the C4 could be run on the street.
I will be looking further into this to try to determine whether the C4 can have a competitive advantage behind an FE in certain racing (or street) applications. Presently, I believe the potential advantage is oriented only toward small, lightweight vehicles.
As for the Boss Martians, they're a current group out of the Seattle/Tacoma area. THe Boss Martians have written the finest hot rod tunes of the past decade. Evan is certainly a car nut, but his writing is so technically oriented that he's gotta have some hard core racing friends who give him guidance on the lyrics.
Several years ago Evan wrote a song about plopping a 427 into a '53 coupe (the Boss Martian's "My Ford Sedan") and it put a big smile on my face. More recently, his album, "Move!" has written about how he sold some Fords to buy a '54 Ford wagon and convert it into a rolling beer keg, How his 429 powered '52 shoebox Merc was trounced twice at the stoplight by a "chick" in a 427 powered '39 coupe. Another tune is a great song about his 383 SuperBee. Other tracks tend to be surf oriented (not Beach Boys surf, real surf). They also have strong "garage rock" influences and several years ago wrote a fun album dedicated to Boeing. Man, if you ever wanna hear a hot rod album about Boeing aircraft, this is it. The Boss Martians always make me smile. While much of their music is in the surf-instro genre, their forte is writing the most technically enjoyable hot rod tunes I've ever heard. I apologize for ranting excessively about music that many people will not be interested in, but, heck, it's just in fun.
Shoe. |
| | | | | RE:Thanks and keep 'em comin' -- Mike McQuesten, 11/19/2001
Thank guys for your opinions on this C4 thing. First I totally agree that a C6 will outlast a C4 anytime when it comes to high horsepower/tourque applications. I know the advantages of a C4 are in weight reduction and less friction thus providing more power to the wheels. Yet.....I've seen two locals running C4s behind very powerful 460s. To the tune of both are mid to low 12's cars and both are street driven. Both trannys were built locally by pros using high quality parts. They've had no problems they say with the C4s. So for my friend's application, I think a C4 will work well with a mild 390, if.....we can find out how/where?
And I also read a lot of street rodder magazines and see all those specialized frames that a high dollar guy can purchase to build hisself the high dollar street rod that some can have built. Andy is not that guy. His '36 is full framed original. He's going to keep it that way. And he hasn't completely ruled out cutting out and modifying the X frame member but he'd like not to. According to him a 390 would be a nice fit with a C4...if he can find the right parts.
Boss Martians are a Seattle/Tacoma band! That's great 'cause we're a bunch of cold blooded N'westers who still like to have fun rockin' and not in chairs. My own son's band plays the Seattle area a lot, out on Aurora and downtown, Pioneer Square, 1st. ave., etc. I'll ask him tonight if he's heard of them. They may have a web site? Thanks for the heads up on this band, I'm lookin' for their stuff now. "In these badlands, it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive....." and "all set Cobra Jet, creepin' through the night...." The other boss......Springsteen.
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| | RE: Fe & c4? -- ANDY, 11/19/2001
I remember a thread in the past that I think stated that J.W. Transmissions made a bellhousing for this application. They have a web site and if I knew how to post a link I would (I still havent mastered this whole computer thing!). If you type J.W. Transmissions or maybe performance transmissions into a search engine you might have some luck. I think it was actually brought up on this forum. Sounds like a hot combination, keep encouraging him! |
| | | RE: Fe & c4? -- Mike McQuesten, 11/20/2001
Hey Andy, it's somewhat coincidental that you mention J.W. Trans because John Saxon (a sometime contributor/questioner at this site) was just over and we were talking about this C4/FE thing and he says check out J.W. He thinks the W stands for Winters and that's a name I remember related to automatic transmissions. So thanks. That's all I need. I'll pass this onto Andy here, the '36 coupe owner. |
| | | | RE: Fe & c4? -- chilly460, 11/20/2001
If it's not JW, I think I read that JPT is making that bellhousing, it's definitely been done before. As for the strength of the c4, a local guy runs a 557ci 385 series in front of a c4, running 10.0s on motor and 9.89 on small shot. This is in a 3800# Galaxie so it's definitely a stout tranny. Another guy with a 10.30 '65 Galaxie and 514 runs the same tranny. I am local to the Booze Bros shop, they suggest c4s for all cars. Performance Automatic builds the trannies, they are full roller 6 planetary, hardened output shaft racing trannies. No, not really stock but they've been going two full seasons in these heavy low 10et cars, both see plenty of street use so other than the full manual valvebody they're no different. |
| Valve Covers -- Chuck, 11/18/2001
Can anyone tell me if these valve covers are original Ford parts.They are on a 68 390 GT Mustang. They are chrome with ridges on the top and sides but no lettering of any kind. I think they are factory but the debate rages.Friends say they've seen them on Fairlanes but not Mustangs. This car sat up for 20 years so I think they came with the car. Any help is appreciated. |
| 428 valve adjustment -- Geoff, 11/18/2001
i have a 69 428 SCJ with shaft mounted rocker arms. there appears to be an adjustment nut but everything i read about these motors says they are non-adjustable except by changing the pushrod lengths. anyone know if and how i can adjust these by playing with what appears to be the adjustment nut?? also, what would the setting be? thanks |
| motor mounts that break -- Joey, 11/17/2001
I Have a 1967 Ranchwagon with a 390 that keeps breaking aftermarket motor mounts. It is only breaking the drivers side mount. I'm worried because the engine dosen't put out as much torque as the 428 that i'm about to put. The 390 that is in it now is completely stock. Right now i have a length of chain bolted from the engine to the frame. Is there any mount that wont break? The passenger side mount and the tranny mount are both in great shape. Thanks |
| | RE: motor mounts that break -- John, 11/17/2001
I just have to wonder about this one. Even though we all think of ...say 400Hp as a lot of power, it is nothing compared to the strenth a motor mount can take when you work out the torque. I do admit, your problem sounds like a torque problem, but could something else be wrong.....like...hmm..who knows? OK...the driver's side is breaking because that's the side that lifts up during hard acceleration/power. The other side is under compression and will be just impossible to break.
So I guses you will have to find a better quality mount (most are made in Mexico these days so, ... good luck!)
OK...here's a thought...is it an automatic? Maybe when it shifts, there is a momentary "clunk" that that puts an undue impact on the motor mount. Hell...it's a weird one...but I'd look back on your driving and see if anything unusual occurs when you are toodling around that might explain it. |
| | You need to grind off the bump. -- Dave Shoe, 11/18/2001
The rubber insulator has a steel bump next to the threaded stud which is supposed to align with the wagon's frame mounts. These bumps never do, and it forces the insulator to be mounted properly to the engine and crooked on the frame.
This misalignment causes the rubber to tear in short order.
Grind off the offending steel lump (memory says: maybe 1/2" dia, 3/8" tall, spherically tipped lump), and you'll stop breaking insulators.
JMO, Shoe. |
| | | RE: You need to grind off the bump. -- Mel Clark, 11/18/2001
I've never had a problem with the hump but, it can be a PIA to get aligned properly. After the second one I just used a turnbuckle that I bought from a hardware store instead of a chain to secure the side that broke and never had another problem. |
| | | | Turnbuckle. -- Bob, 11/19/2001
Thats what I use. I leave a little slack, 1/8 inch or a bit less unless I'm going to the track, so it engine isn't locked down. |
| CJ Oil Cooler Lines -- Bob, 11/17/2001
I got a set for sale on eBay and have been asked what they fit. It seems the Torino and Mustang lines are different lengths. For mine the short line measures just over thirty inches and the longer line measures over forty inches.
Anybody know? Thanks |
| | No dimensions on file, Bob. Got a photo? [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/19/2001
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| | RE: CJ Oil Cooler Lines -- Mel Clark, 11/19/2001
It's been a long time ago but I remember that the 428 Mustangs and Shelbys used two different coolers. there was the vertical unit that was mounted to one side of the radiator and a horizontal unit that was mounted across the bottom of the radiator. It gets really confusing when you get involved with the various Boss and 429 engines as well as different years as there were several different oil filter adaptors that I have come across. Other than that I have nothing of value to contribute. |
| | | RE: CJ Oil Cooler Lines -- Bob, 11/19/2001
These lines were off a 428 SCJ as I recall. |
| | | | Early Intermediates had a unique, 'narrow' cooler assy. [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/20/2001
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| | | | | Any pix or more details? [n/m] -- Dan Davis, 11/20/2001
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| | | | | | Nope - and I think it wasn't serviced, so no p/n. [n/m] -- Mr F, 11/20/2001
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| Any suggestions -- Rob, 11/16/2001
I know this don't have anything to deal with an FE engine... and im very sorry that it don't.. but i need some help before i start ripping out my hair over my suspension.... a few days ago i ran into a dead dear at night on the road (funny as it sounds i just thank god it wansn't a kid)now right after that incident.. my steering wheel was turned to left much more than usual while the car was going straight... also the car pulled to the right pretty badly... on a weird note.. it did it while i went to the store.. yet when i drove home.. the wheel was back in the original place.. and the car didn't pull to the right. i have checked under the car when it was pulling and i found the upper ball joint on the driver side and the lower ball joint on the passenger side went bad. tie rods were tight and everything else seemed alright and fairly tight.... i thought it was the ball joints until is just fixed itself... i ran it a couple times more.. and its still back to normal.
now my conclusion is the worm gear in the steering box slipped.. but recently fixed itself.. which is kinda hard to believe.. and im not sure if they just slip that easily.. and suggestions to why it fixed itself??... this is in a 65 thunderbird... hey.. ive have weirder things happen .. but this is high up there
again.. sorry this don't pertain to deal with fe engines... but any help would be very appreciated... thank you |
| | RE: Any suggestions -- Lou, 11/17/2001
Take the car to a front end shop and have it checked. I think you are right about the ball joint, it may be back in place but it's not fixed ! |
| | | I agree with Lou... -- John, 11/17/2001
A steering part...ball joint, idler arm, etc is bad....sometimes in place and everything looks normal...sometimes not...take it to a front end shop. By the way, way the FE site?....just cuz it is a 65 T-Bird? At least tell us what engine you have in it....if it's a 390, or better yet, a 428, then everybody will try to help...chuckle. |
| | | | RE: I agree with John... -- Dave Shoe, 11/18/2001
Just tell us it's a '65 T-bird with a 390 and steering problems and it'll fit in here just fine.
I also agree that I suspect you don't likely have any steering gearbox problems. Have the front end linkage looked at (or check it over carefully yourself) and find the problematic parts. Balljoints can sometimes feel good in your hand but fail under load, so beware of this.
Shoe. |
| | | | | Thank you -- Rob, 11/18/2001
Thanks for all your help.. it is a 390 by the way...
when pushing on the wheel from top to bottom.. you can see the upperball joint has gone bad on the drivers side... and the lower on the passenger... tie rods feel tight..and everything else feels tight.. so im going for more the ball joints.. it just suprised me to have it go back into place like that... but its gonna be a winter project....
thanks for all your help Rob |
| Casting # -- Jesse Magruder, 11/14/2001
On my Fe block there is a casting # that said 4024 instead of the 352 on the right front of the block. I was wondering if anybody knew about this. Thankyou |
| pics of Drag Team '428 Stang on -- mikeb, 11/14/2001
428cobrajet.com |
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