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 |  National Day of Remembrance -- Mr F, 09/14/2001
|
Frankly, the world doesn't need another
pundit. But circumstances can sometimes compel us to speak, if only
to share information that seems noteworthy. Amidst the
noise and heartbreak of this week's tragedy, I've witnessed something
that I now feel obliged to mention. I hope you'll bear
with me as I step out of the moderator's role to briefly go
off-topic:
Recent events in New York City have captured the attention of all Americans. On
Tuesday, we gasped
in horror as the World Trade
Center was reduced from a proud national
icon to a ghastly pile of smoldering rubble. Since then we have
grieved for all those lost souls, breathed sighs of relief along with the many
survivors and struggled to find answers for the inevitable
questions.
Presumably, this was meant to be a crippling
blow. History tells us that governments have been
toppled with much lower expenditures of blood or money. And
foreigners often think of us as a bit 'soft' and very decadent. We are, after all, a nation of stubborn individuals - constitutionally entitled
(and economically encouraged) to focus on ourselves instead of the group.
Of course, we do look out for
#1....most days, anyway. But large-scale disasters are a different
matter. They stop us in the midst of our workaday
lifestyle, forcing us to reflect on how much we have in
common. Much as our feelings for each other can cool a bit
during carefree times, the heat of tragedy seems to galvanize us for
united action.
This latest is no exception. Despite
their horror and thoughts of personal safety, hundreds of
police, firefighters and even civilian passersby leapt into harms
way. Volunteer tradesmens & blood donors poured in, such
that many were turned away by grateful, overburdened NYC
officials. Now businesses are giving out cash, food and even
free office space.**
Its enough to make you proud. So, on this
day of remembrance I'd like to acknowledge my fellow Americans for
rising to the occasion and rediscovering their higher selves in the
process. The coming months will surely be difficult, but we
will survive and strengthen if we stick together.
A brave, caring response to calamity is the measure of a great
people.
Mr F
** For those of us who can't run over to Manhattan and pitch in,
contributing is just a few clicks away. The United Way of New York has
announced a September
11th Fund. We've
just added their banner to our Forums; its linked to a secure server form
for on-line
donations. |
|
 | MSD FE Distributor Timing Curve -- Jeff H., 09/13/2001
Hi everyone, this is my first time writing, I have enjoyed reading all the great posts for quite a while.
I have a 67 Fairlane GT Convertible with the 390 S code & a 4 Speed. I am upgrading to A MSD 6 AL and a MSD FE distributor. The engine has a Performer 390 intake, Crane 272 cam, TRW 11:1's bored 0.30 over. In the installation manual MSD offers 4 different timing curve scenarios through changing the springs & bushinings. What would work best for me? I am just playing out on the street with the car, but I just gotta start eating more Chevy's! Thanks! |
| 502 in place of 352? HELP!! -- federico, 09/13/2001
in front right of the block where the normal 352 casting resides there is a 502 casted backwards? what is up with that ? the block has 3 webs and it is a 4.13 bore i am assuming a 428 block. i need help |
|  | what is it? it has no casting numbers... -- federico, 09/13/2001
except for the mirrored 502. in place of the 352 normal casting. anybody know the truth?? |
| | | RE: what is it? it has no casting numbers... -- Mel Clark, 09/15/2001
I have no idea what it's original application was. The bore size was only used in the 406 and 428 FE engines, to my knowledge. |
| | | | RE: what is it? it has no casting numbers... -- federico, 09/15/2001
could it be a truck engine is or are there any differences? oil pump etc.... |
| | | | | RE: Not Truck -- Mel Clark, 09/16/2001
I have never heard of yhat bore size being used in anything other than passenger cars. Ford trucks were limited to 391 CID in the FE series.
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| | | | | | RE: Not Truck -- federico, 09/16/2001
what is the difference between a 391 and passenger? |
| | | | | |  | RE: 391 Truck Engines -- Mel Clark, 09/16/2001
The 391 truck engines were designed for extreme heavy duty operation. There are several ways to identify them, the easiest, to me, is to look at the crank snout, it will be much larger than a passenger car crank and they were sought after by racers that ran big GMC blowers as well as by drag boat racers that drive the prop shaft off the crank snout. These are also the forgings that Ford and Holman-Moody used in the 427 race cars. The 391 also had valve rotators on the valves and the heads had 2 small exhaust heat cross over ports in the heads and intake. They also had deep dished pistons for low compression and the engines were balanced for low rpm operation.
If you have one of these engines you could sell the crank, if it checks good, for almost as much as the cost of a good new aftermarket crank. |
| 428 crank in 390 -- nick, 09/13/2001
oops . anyway will the 428 crank fit in place of the 390 . or do i have to change other things ? |
| | RE: 428 crank in 390 -- John R. Barnes, 09/13/2001
That makes a 410. You will need to find some old pistons from a Merc or order some custom units. |
| | | 410 pistons are available at Napa. -- Paul M, 09/14/2001
Sometimes off the shelf, sometimes they have to order them.
They are the same piston that was in the later truck FE's with low compression.
Other parts stores may carry them as well.
|
| | | | RE: Pistons? -- Mel Clark, 09/15/2001
Does any one know of a source for OEM type pistons for the 300 horse power Holman & Moody Marine engines? These were forged by TRW and had Ford part numbers inside in the crown. I would like to acquire a set of .030 oversize. |
| | | | | RE: Pistons? -- richard, 09/15/2001
you might try contacting trw. they may still have a set or two on their shelves. if not they may be persuaded to machine a set for you. |
| | | | | | RE: J - industrial -- Mike McQuesten, 09/17/2001
Mel, I don't know if this helps much but I think you're looking for the J industrial pistons. An example is C3J.-##. I got lucky a few years ago and picked up a set of these forgings at a swap meet for a mere $50! I recognized the benefits of the 4.23 dished piston in conjunction with a COAE-D heads. These pistons are allowing me to run the '60 HP heads on a '63 standard bore 427. My compression ratio is 10.5:1. Marginal on pump fuels but livable with the forged pistons and occasional mix of racing fuel. |
| | | | | | | RE: J - industrial -- Gary L, 09/17/2001
I have built several of the 410 motors over the years. They make exceptionally good truck motors, torquey with good top end. We used 428 crank with 390 FT pistons and then fly cut the pistons for deck height. An oil windage tray, drilled out oil pump passage, and plugged and drilled oil feeds to the rockers and you have an excellent motor. Have had very good luck with the cobra jet 4V intake match ported to the heads and exhaust. You also need to install hardened seats and throw the points as far as you can. I prefer the MSD over most any ignition I have tried especially the Jacobs. |
| | RE: I take it you got the flywheel or flexplate? -- RC Moser, 09/18/2001
I guess it's common knowledge and had to ask that you have the other balancing piece of the puzzle. |
| 390 id -- nick, 09/12/2001
does anyone know what or wear the id numbers are on a 63 to 68 390 and what numbers tell the hp . like 4v becouse im looking at 4 390s and i want to make sure i buy the best highest hp model |
| Clutch linkage? -- Darrel Woolard, 09/12/2001
Hello, everyone. I have a 1970 torino, it has a 410 mercury engine in it, with a 4 spd. It was originally a 302 with an automatic The engine was already in it when i bought the car, but it had no trans. I rebuilt the engine, and decided to change it over to a 4spd. My problem is that i don't have( and can't find) a clutch linkage out of a 70 torino, even if i did have it i don't think it would work as FE engines wasn't offered in the torino in 70. I was told that i could get a hydrolic setup out of a mid 80's truck. Does anyone have any advice? What year truck would be most likely to have what i need? Does any one make an aftermarket setup, if so where can i get it? Does anyone have any idea if the linkage out of a 66 galaxie ,that had a 410 in it, would work? Also, will the trans member from an automatic work with a 4spd? Any advice i can get would be great. Thanks for your time and help. Darrel |
|  | RE: Clutch linkage? -- Travis Miller, 09/13/2001
This may take a little research but results may be worthwhile. Check parts manuals to see if the 1970 Torino clutch linkage for a 302 fit any other earlier Ford cars with a 289/302. If so that could mean that the clutch linkage off the same model car with an FE would possibly fit. |
| | RE: Clutch linkage? -- Paul M, 09/14/2001
For starters, you wont find 410 in a Galaxy unless it's a transplant. It was a Merc engine for 2 years only, believe it was `66-`67. But the FE's the same, nonetheless.
As for the linkage, it depends on how it goes from the pedal to the bracket on the engine where the linkage attaches. (can't remember what it's called!)
I would imagine that from that bracket back, any FE linkage that hooks up to THAT transmission's bellhousing, will work, as long as there is clearance.
I would follow Travis' research idea, and check part #'s comparing the 302's linkage to the FE's from other Fords and Merc's.
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| what is this block, 390 truck or 428cj -- whitt russell, 09/11/2001
I am trying to find out what block I have, I've been able to id most of the parts but the block. The motor has been rebuilt and has many different parts in it, the heads are c8ae-h, the crank 3u, the rods c7ae-b. I know what these parts are, the heads and crank 390 but the rods are 428. The block has no casting numbers on it, the front has 65 and below it is the 352. On the back is a 26 and below that is 352A, it has heavy main caps. The mold code is A Dif and the casting date is 0D29. I was told to look in the center freeze plug for "428" casting but I found "352". So what do I have a '70 390 truck block or a '70 cobra jet block? Thanks for the help. |
| | The rods are not 428 rods. -- Dave Shoe, 09/12/2001
They are 390/391/410/428 rods. They sometimes get drilled for 13/32" 428CJ/PI applications, but most often just get drilled for the 3/8" rodbolt.
Note that 390+ CID FE/FT rods with 3/8" bolts since mid-1963 are all made of forged SAE 1041 steel, and all of them have the same strength and balance specification. Part numbers vary, but the rod's the same.
Since you can get high-technology ARP bolts for the 3/8" rods, these can sometimes be considered superior rods to 428CJ/PI rods if the CJs have well-worn bolts. Also, the ARP bolts for 13/32-drilled rods are apparently not as good a design as the 3/8" bolts (though they may be superior to stock CJ bolts), so if you're gonna sink any money into buiyng a set of rods, it might as well be the 3/8" jobbies, since they usually sell much cheaper than rods drilled for CJ/PI applications.
By the way, you have a 390, though the 352 sighting inside the water jacket is interesting. I've heard of just a couple "390" marked and a few more "428" marked sightings, but yours is the first "352". Thanks for the info. This is good to learn.
Shoe. |
| 390 or 352 ?? -- nick, 09/11/2001
you guys have been very helpfull in giving me advice on building my 65 352 . its the original moter . but my employer is a ford buf . he has 390s 428s and every other moter in betreen . he has about 10 or 12 of each . my question is . im looking for power ! wich of these moters would give me more bang for the buck .i plan on spending around 800 to 1500 on the rebuild . the 390s are out of 67 and 68 galaxies. he told me they are about 300 or so hp stoch vs my 250 hp 352. id just like to know wich is best to dump cash into . cus the 352 stock isnt gona be any kind of hot rod moter in a 65 galaxie heavy galaxie!!. if you know what i mean . the rest of the car is done and painted and looks perfect after 2 years af sheet metal work . im a body man by trade so its mostly time .. thanks for the help you guys are great!! |
| | The 390 really is a good way to go. -- Dave Shoe, 09/12/2001
I've been trying to convince myself to build a 352/360, but the easy cubes and sturdy inexpensive rods of the 390 are just too enticing.
Since a worn-out 390 engine can still be bought for $200.00 if you know where to look, then you might as well pop for the engine. This way you can select the best parts from both motors when building them.
For instance, if the 390 cast pistons still look good, you can simply bore the 352 .050 over and reuse the 390 pistons, rods, and crank in the 352 block. Make sure you keep the original piston pins with the original pistons, as factory pistons are coarse-balanced by selecting the pin of the proper weight and fine balanced by a slight bit of drilling of the aluminum.
If you need to go with oversized pins, it's probably better to just pop for a new (cheap) set of cast (or forged) pistons.
Shoe. |
| | | RE: The 390 really is a good way to go. -- richard, 09/13/2001
i have thought about building an FE powered galaxie at times. i personaly would go with a 390 block and 428 crank. you get 410 cubes, 390 economy, and 428 torque. just my opinion. |
| | | | RE: The 390 really is a good way to go. -- Mel Clark, 09/13/2001
If you can't afford a 428 you might want to consider the possibility of boring a 390 oversize .080 to 4.130" and try to get a 428 crankshaft from your boss as well as a set of good used pistons and build a low buck 428. I would not suggest tis if you are planning to do a lot of racing and you may not be able to overbore again. Some shops have sonic testers to verify that your block will accept an .080 oversize. Good luck with your project. |
| | | | 428 crank in 390 ? -- nick, 09/13/2001
thanks for all the advice guys . im goin with the 390 . if i put a 428 crank in it will it just fit without machining . i mean are the journals the same size . what i realy want to know is this just a mater of boring puting all new parts in and just simply puting a 428 crank in place of a 390 ? |
| | | | | RE: 428 crank in 390 ? -- Darrel Woolard, 09/14/2001
If you put a 428 crank in the 390, it will make it 410ci, Ford actually made a few of these engines in 66 and 67. I have one in a 70 torino, from what i have been able to find out they were mainly used in police cars. Just rember if you do use the 428 crank, to get the 428 flywheel too as it is also incorporated in balancing the crank. the original 410's were rated at 330hp, and 444 lb/ft of torque, so that would be a big improvement over the 352ci. |
| | | | | Journals are the same in FE's. -- Paul M, 09/14/2001
That's one reason we love them so much! Right guys?
Simple swap, but like Darrel mentioned, you need the flywheel if you go with the 428 crank. It's cheaper to track one down if your boss doesn't have one, than to totally rebalance the entire rotating assembly.
Check your cylinders for taper, and bore accordingly, if you intend to be able to rebuild and bore again at a later date. If you do bore, new pistons are in order, and you'll need new pins, which means fitting them to the rods. If all you get is the 428 crank, and not the rods that were attached to it, you'll need to have your rods resized. (IF you go with the 428 crank, that is!)
Try to get a 390 with C6AE or earlier head castings. Casting # is between the middle 2 spark plugs. In case you don't know, the C is for `60's, the 6 is for the year in the decade, in other words 1966. C5AE would in turn be `65.
C6AE-R are good heads to have, and need little work to flow like CJ heads. Expense is always a consideration, but even stock, they'll flow better than any non-CJ head from `66 on. Don't be too obvious, but try to be snoopy a little if you can ;) and go for the older heads! Unless of course you happen to find some C8OE-N's, (CJ heads) and he doesn't know what they are... (fat chance!)
On the flip side, ask if you can remove the center freeze plugs, and look for "428" cast inside the water jacket. This is a good indicator of possibly a stronger/thicker wall casting, which can take more stress, and consequently a larger overbore.
If oil pans are off, or he'll let you take them off, look for the webbings on the skirt of the block, directly to the edges of the mains. the more ridges sticking up in those webs, the better.
I think my `66 T-bird 390 has standard webbing.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please! I'ld love to find out I got a tough block!
Here's a not so good pic, but it shows you where to look.
http://members.home.net/dwolf768/005.jpg
Right where the main attaches there is a ridge running up towards the top of the block at a 45 degree angle.
Cams are a consideration, but I'll let someone else help you with that. If noone offers info about them, post again specifically about your requirements.
Also post casting #'s of what you get. Heads, block, etc. |
| Question To Mr. F -- Ray, 09/11/2001
Information on the 428 Cobra engine installed in the big ford cars (Galaxy 500) looks like it's going to be tough one Mr. F. Everything I've check out came out zero!, do you have any more infomation or direction on this particular cobra engine, it would be helpfull. Ray |
| Carb II -- Gary L, 09/11/2001
Is there a 1/2 inch phenolic spacer that is supposed to between the carb and intake on a cougar 390? |
| | If you mean 390 4v, the spacer's only 0.25"H [n/m] -- Mr F, 09/11/2001
n/m |
| | | RE: If you mean 390 4v, the spacer's only 0.25"H -- Gary L, 09/12/2001
I wass guessing from memory, thanx! |
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