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| Help ID'ing heads and intake -- Trevor, 02/25/2004
I just bought a '67 390 mustang with some non-stock FE parts I'd like some help identifying. The heads are C6AE-R's. Are these a 352 head? Are they worth anything? The intake is C3AE-9424-E. What's this from? Thanks, Trevor |
| | RE: Help ID'ing heads and intake -- giacamo, 02/26/2004
what exaust manifolds are on the heads? |
| | C3AE-9424-E intake -- Barry B, 02/27/2004
Trevor, is that intake aluminum? I've seen that number on the 406. [Image deleted by Admin.] |
| | | RE: C3AE-9424-E intake -- Trevor, 02/27/2004
The motor has the normal 8 bolt configuration and came with a set of Hooker headers. The intake is aluminum - any idea what it came on originally or was it a dealer piece? I'm putting the car back to stock, so that's why I'm wondering what these pieces are and if there's any market for them. Trevor |
| | | | RE: C3AE-9424-E intake -- giacamo, 02/27/2004
Trevor if that intake is alm, you have a 406 intake wich is pretty rare. if some one is restoring a 406 powered car thay would really like to have that on thear engine. it would make a good streat intake and be factury.but i think the ports on the intake are taller then your heads unless some one hoged your heads out to mach the intake? |
| | | | | RE: C3AE-9424-E intake -- Tim P., 02/28/2004
Are you keeping the intake or selling it for something else? |
| | | | | | Here's a photo of the intake -- Trevor, 02/28/2004
Here's a photo of the intake. I was planning on trading it for some 390 GT parts. What's it worth?
[Image deleted by Admin.] |
| | | | | | | RE: Here's a photo of the intake -- giacamo, 02/29/2004
trevor try posting intake pick agen i,d like to see it....... |
| | | | | | | Please send him the image via eMail. [n/m] -- Mr F, 03/01/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | RE: Please send him the image via eMail. [n/m] -- seventysixer, 03/01/2004
Could you E-mail a pic to me too please? |
| | | | | | | | | RE: Please send him the image via eMail. [n/m] -- Tim P., 03/01/2004
send the pic email to me also please, Thanks Tim. |
| 352 build up -- marty, 02/25/2004
I just found this forum and thought I'd throw a question out there for everyone. I have a 64 352 4 barel and was wondering if anyone has any tips for improving performance/power without going out and buying a dual quad intake setup. Size Cam, overbore, valve job, headers,etc? Has anyone here tried any of these improvements and has it really made any diff? The 352 is rated 300 hp and 350 ft-lb torque, or somewhere in that neighborhood. I want her to look fairly stock on the outside but I wouldn't mind updating the inards to get some extra ponies out of her. Any help would be apprecited, thanks!! |
| | RE: 352 build up -- McQ, 02/25/2004
You're right Marty, there's no need for dual fours. All you need to do to pep that '52 up is this:
An aluminum intake such as the Edelbrock Performer will do nicely along with their 600 C.F.M. carb. You might want to consider the Performer RPM but I'm assuming here that your '64 352-4V is backed by a cruisomatic and something like 3.00 ring & pinion.
As for a cam, keep it mild but you definitely need more than that '64 352 had stock. I don't think the '64 352-4V was rated at 300 horses. The '58-'60 standard performance 352-4V was rated @ 300 horses and that was an over rating. l'm going from a foggy memory here but I think your 352 was rated at 250 horse....maybe. But back to that camshaft. I'd again recommend something like Edelbrocks Performer cam and kit. There are lots of other cams similar to this. But it's important to run a mild cam to get that '64 Galaxie up and moving. Your Ford is approaching two tons if not a little over it. Wait a minute, you didn't even tell us if it was a full size Ford/Merc you're running this '64 352 in?
So lets see, an aluminum intake/600 carb, mild cam, and now how about some headers? Try Charles Crites at Crites Reproductions. They make a set designed just for your application. Follow those headers up with a nice 2 1/2" exhaust system.
Convert your single point distributor to a Pertronix electronic conversion along with their coil and plug wiring.
Change the gears out back to 3.50s and you're ready to go!
It's sure fun to spend other people's money. |
| | | RE: 352 build up -- marty, 02/26/2004
Great ideas, and pretty much what I thought, just seeing if anyone had actually done these things and how much diff it really makes. Your right, the title weight of my car is 3800 lbs!! Its a fullsize Galaxie 500. I was just checking if the upgrades would really get me any extra performance out of this engine and tranny. If I can pay $200 and put new seals and gaskets or pay $1000 for cam, intakes etc and only get an extra 50 hp out of her whats the point? I've been weighing what to do, and so has my wife!! So we'll see. I was planning on rebuilding one of my Galaxie to be straight stock everything, and making my other Gal the hot Rod. That way I can really see the difference any upgrades make. Thanks again! |
| | | RE: 352 build up -- marty, 02/26/2004
do you happen to have a good website for the Petronix ignition? All I can find is references to it on other websites and they have the price anywhere from 61 to 120 dollars. Thanks! |
| | | | RE: 352 build up -- McQ, 02/26/2004
Pertronix ignition systems are available from numerous vendors. You're probably comparing the prices of the original Pertronix conversion to the Ignitor II. I would suggest the regular Ignitor I. It'll work just fine for your application.
If you're going to tear an FE down to rebuild for performance I'd suggest searching for a 390 crank/rods. |
| | | | | RE: 352 build up -- Fred, 03/01/2004
Years ago, Popular Hot rodding magazine had a interesting article on a similar build-up although they used a 390 instead . I do have a '59 Ford 500 with the 300 h.p. motor , but I have converted it from street to all strip . Some of the more interesting things that can be done with the motor if ever rebuilding it , is to swap out the original crankshaft with a 390 or even one of the bigger FE engine crankshafts . With this little swap , compression and power ratio's are increased . They just don't make them like they use to . |
| Right or Left -- Tom Andersen, 02/24/2004
Crazy question- looking at the motor (C4AE) from in front of the car, Which side is right ? and which is Left? Drivers side is ? Thanks for your help-Tom |
| | RE: Left -- McQ, 02/24/2004
N/m |
| | | RE: Left -- Travis Miller, 02/25/2004
I have learned to always say driver side or passenger side. Forget saying left or right side. That way you will not be confused when looking at the engine from the front. |
| | | | RE: Left -- 67stang, 02/25/2004
never call out sides while looking at motor from front, sides are designated by sitting in drivers seat |
| | | | | RE: Left -- glenn, 02/28/2004
left is driver side. right is pass side. |
| Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam -- bprewit, 02/23/2004
I searched this board quite a bit for info on this cam before I bought it but didnt find much info on anyone that had actually installed one so I will add what I found with this cam: Engine is a 390 bored .060 with C4AE-G heads with larger valves, Edelbrock Streetmaster single plane intake modified by opening up the runners and plenum and a 1" open spacer, adjustable roller rockers, petronix igniton, holley 750 vaccum secondary carb, FPA headers, C-6 transmission with manual valve body and TCI 2500rpm stall, 9" locking rear with 3.70 gears, all installed in a '69 fairlane. The cam gives me around 6-7hg vacuum at idle with a decent lope. Power starts to come on strong at about 3500rpm with this engine and it pulls hard up to 6200rpm before it starts to fall off. The low vaccum causes problems with the vacuum advance on the distributor and had to connect the vacuum to the carb port below the butterflies instead of the ported vacuum on the metering plate to get the engine to idle. Idle is set around 1000rpm as any lower and the engine wants to die in gear even with the stall convertor. Also the auto tranny original vacuum modulator needs about 12-15hg to work correctly. The TCI modulator is adjustable down to about 8-10hg according to TCI which is still too high for my engine so a manual valve body was required to keep from burning up the transmission due to not being able to adjust internal pressures based on engine torque demand. I dont think there is any way this cam would work with power brakes unless a vacuum can/pump were used. Peak hp and torque are also pretty far up so good valve train and bottom end are necessary I think. Also if you are running a holley carb you will need to change the power valve to one that opens at about 2hg less than your vacuum reading at idle to avoid having the power valve flutter open and closed causing problems with acceleration off idle. I will run the car at the track this coming weekend and try and get back with some quarter mile times with this setup. Great cam for what I was wanting! |
| | RE: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam -- McQ, 02/23/2004
Thanks for the details. I've wanted to know about first hand actual experience with this cam.
Please keep us posted as you've indicated. |
| 6,8, or 10 degrees timing on a 390? -- Steve M, 02/22/2004
I have a 1970 390 and it ran great when I first set it at 6 degrees, but when I hooked the vacuum advance back up, it runs like crap again. I have read that it should be at 6,8 and sometimes 10 degrees. I tried 10 with advance unplugged and it ran smooth, but I lost some get up and go off the line. Is there a setting that I can leave it at and keep the advance plugged up, or is that a no-no?
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| | RE: 6,8, or 10 degrees timing on a 390? -- Gerry Proctor, 02/23/2004
Sounds like you're using manfold vacuum to achieve that 10 degrees of advance at idle. You can use manifold vacuum advance but it requires a slightly different tuning method. Or you can more easily just go back to ported vacuum and call it good. You first need to sort out the vacuum advance taps on the carb. Get yourself a vacuum gauge to hook up to the vacuum ports on the carb. A port that has vacuum at idle is a manifold vacuum port. A port that has no vacuum at idle but shows vacuum as soon as you start to open the throttle is a ported vacuum port.
I'll address tuning with manifold vacuum first since it appears that's where you are right now. Disconnect the vacuum line and set your base timing at around six degrees. reconnect the vacuum advance line and read your advance now. It will be much higher than the base six degrees. If you don't have a fully-degreed balancer, it may be off the marks and the only way you'll know just how much advance you have is with a dial-back timing light. It's not all that important, though, since you are only interested in base timing (remember, your base timing is timing without any advance). Distributor vacuum advance cans vary as to how much advance they contribute. Some as little as ten degrees or so and some over 20 degrees. You'll probably have to adjust the carb idle speed since your total idle timing will be close to 20 degrees now. Tuning with manifold vacuum can be helpful for engines with big cams that have trouble generating a stable idle or enough vacuum to work the power brakes. Go ahead and test drive the car to see if you're pretty close to where you want to be. Just to be clear on this; You set up your base timing without the advance connected and once you do that, reconnect the vacuum advance. Do not pay any attention to the jump in the timing mark. Do not readjust the distributor to bring it down.
Tuning with ported vacuum (where there is no vacuum in the tube at idle) is pretty easy. You set your base timing to six or whatever degrees that works for you and that's about it. The vacuum advance canister won't contribute any advance until you crack the throttle open.
There is a lot of myth and lore (Net truth) regarding ported and manifold vacuum. Many folks believe there are differences that lie beyond what occurs once the throttle is cracked open. There isn't any difference between the two once the throttle is cracked open and it's not hard to prove by anyone who has a vacuum gauge. Setting them up with the engine at idle is different, but that's about it. And in many cases, it's not a one size fits all. The savy tuner will use whichever method, manifold or ported, that suits their engine. |
| | | The vacuum advance is hooked up to the manifold -- Steve M., 02/23/2004
The vacuum advance hose goes from the distributor to a vacuum outlet on the rear passenger side of the 390. I cant remember if that is where it goes or not, but that is where it is getting its vacuum from. I have a holley 650 on it, I will see if I can find that ported vacuum you were referring to so I can see if that makes any difference. It starts popping erratically under load after about 3200 rpms. I cant figure out what it could be. I had the advance plugged when I put it at 6 degrees, so that is why I am stumped. I am pretty sure that is what the book calls for on it. It is a 1970 390. Thanks for your info. |
| | | | RE: The vacuum advance is hooked up to the manifold -- Gerry Proctor, 02/23/2004
If it's popping out of the exaust at the higher rpm that is a good indicator that your timing is over-advanced. Take this for what it's worth, but it's common for the damper outter ring to slip with age. The timing marks you're using for a reference may not be anywhere near what the actual timing is. It's always better to tune by seat of the pants and let the numbers fall where they may. |
| | | | | I will try that. I will back it down some more. -- Steve M, 02/24/2004
Thanks Gerry, I will try and do it by ear. Do you know if the 390 usually had a vacuum hose on the manifold to the carb, or did I plug my vacuum advance into the wrong hole? I read somewhere that my holley has a ported vacuum that I can hook it up to if I can find it. |
| | | | | | RE: I will try that. I will back it down some more. -- bprewit, 02/24/2004
Any vacuum port on the holley carb that is below the butterflys is manifold vacuum. There is a vacuum connection right above the idle air screw on the metering block on the primary side that is ported vacuum. Hope maybe this helps a bit? |
| | | | | | | Holley ported vacuum -- Steve M., 02/24/2004
Thanks. Now I know where to look. |
| | | | | | | | I found the problem!! -- Steve M, 02/29/2004
The problem with the backfiring and the timing problems was a bad vacuum advance. I never knew they actually went bad, but it did and now it is running great....
Thanks for everybody's help on this board... |
| trac. lock -- russ, 02/22/2004
having trouble finding a clutch pack for my 9 in. trc. lock been told 66and older is old style it;s in a 66 fairlane gta , enjoy reading what you guys have to say althrough i;m alittle out of place with a fairlane ! |
| vacuum at idle -- bprewit, 02/22/2004
I installed the performer rpm cam in my 390. Edelbrock claims that this cam keeps 10-12hg vacuum at idle but I only read about 6-7hg. I have searched until i was blue in the face for a vacuum leak but cannot find anything not connected or plugged, or any leaks for that matter. Anyone else installed one of these cams? Any ideas? Not bad thing except vacuum advance dosent work correctly on distributor. |
| | RE: vacuum at idle -- russ, 02/22/2004
this is simple but i;m an old guy losing brain cells, after wiggling the trottle shaft back and forth instead of up and down i found my vac. loss. da! good luck . |
| | RE: vacuum at idle -- gene simmons, 02/22/2004
Edelbrock will always make claims that are hard to dupicate/ the rpm cam is a large cam/ so depending on the heads the manifold, carb/ compression ratio, etc who knows what motor the y built. . |
| | No way! -- Royce, 02/22/2004
That Performer RPM cam has 108 lobe centers. A friend of mine has one in a 410 FE engine (bored .030 so its 416) and he gets around 8" vacuum. That cam is no good if you plan to drive on the street or have power brakes.
Royce |
| | You'd need 500ci to see 12 in/hg with that cam. -- Gerry Proctor, 02/23/2004
You can try advancing the timing to see if that helps. You could also advance the cam a couple or four degrees. But it's going to be hard to overcome that 108 degree LSA by crutching it. Vacuum reserve cans do work...for one or two brake applications. If you have vacuum-assisted brakes you really need to look at an electric vacuum pump made by SSBC and offered through them or Summit.
And just fyi...many of the early 60s factory performance era engines that had beefy cams didn't use vacuum advance distributors. |
| | RE: vacuum at idle -- bprewit, 02/23/2004
I had pretty much figured on problems with the power brakes so decided to stick with manual brakes early into the build. I spent a few hours playing with different springs in the vacuum advance and found one that works. Took quite a bit of time driving at different rpm's and watching the vacuum gauge to find out just what was going on. I also found that I had to install a 4.5 power valve on the holley carb to eliminate a slight bog during acceleration at lower rpm's due to the power valve fluttering because of low vaccum. I lucked out by installing a TCI reverse pattern manual valve body modification in the C-6 as there is no way the tranny would have shifted correctly. I pretty much eliminated all vacuum leaks even on the carb shafts, I did rebuild the carb and replace the teflon strips on the shafts. Great cam for a car that will not be daily driven and more of a weekend warrior ride, though im thinking that steeper gears are in the near future. Thanks man for all the help and info! |
| steel shim head gaskets -- bear, 02/21/2004
i am putting together a 60 over 390 with speed pro flat top pistons. i have edelbrock heads milled .040 i was wondering if any one has had success finding and using .020 steel shim head gaskets with the aluminum heads. all input is welcome |
| 390 overbored 060 -- Lew, 02/21/2004
Had my 390 OBed 60. I am now concerned about overheating. The Block has cast # C7MEA and date code 7L1. It also shows 30352 and 29 DIF. The heads appear to be 390's C8AE-H. On Gene's Automotive Enthusiast site he shows the C7ME-A block as a 428 CID for the years 67 -70. The 390 would have a stock bore of 4.05 and the 428 would be 4.13. It seems that if the same block was used for both engines, a 60OB would be within tolerance of 4.11 for the 390. Are my assumptions correct? I did notice that Gene lists the same castings for different CID engines. Will the 15/64 drill bit test tell me anything? Gene's site: (http://pliverman.home.mindspring.com/index2.htm ) |
| | RE: 390 overbored 060 -- steve, 02/22/2004
My block is a C7ME-A and its a 390 for my 67 GT,you can't believe everything you read about fe's in books but the people on this site know there stuff so they would be able to help a little more about the drill test. |
| | RE: 390 overbored 060 -- giacamo, 02/22/2004
i,v bored 390,s 60 over and had no over heating problems. i would not prefor 60 over but sometimes you have no choise. i try to keep the 60 over blocks for light dutey low compresion aps...... |
| | RE: Depends on how you read it. -- Gerry Proctor, 02/23/2004
It could be a 428 block or it could be any other FE other than a 427. He's just not including the other possibilities for that casting. That's the problem with "Net Truth." My factory original block in my '67 Fairlane is a C7ME-A and I'm double-damn sure it ain't a 428. You shouldn't have an issue with the block at .060 over (unless you have a block with really bad core shift) other than you've pretty much locked yourself out of future overhauls without sonic checking the block. |
| | RE: 390 overbored 060 -- Lew, 02/23/2004
I have tried the 15/64 drill bit test on the front two core plugs of my 1967 390. On one side the 15/64 drill-bit would not pass through the cylinders. A 7/32 drill-bit did, but barely. On the other side of the engine, the 15/64 drill-bit would pass only toward the upper part of the cylinders. It would not pass through the center or lower extremes. So, what does this tell me?
Thanks in advance. |
| Its Alive!! -- bprewit, 02/21/2004
Finally after 6 months of ripping all the cash from my wallet my '69 fairlane is up and running. It still looks like hell from needing paint and hood wont fit with intake and spacer but the thing runs like a top. Its a 390 with H-beam rods, forged pistons, full arp hardware, mildon pan and valve covers, harland sharp roller rockers and shafts with oregon cam support system, edelbrock rpm cam, and too much more to list. I replaced every brake line, gave her 4 wheel disc brakes, locking 9" rear with 3.89 gears, rebuilt C-6 with TCI convertor, FPA headers, 3" exhaust with X-pipe and dynomax bullet race mufflers. The thing is way too loud but sounds wicked with enough lope at idle to turn heads. Thanks for all the help from this place! Wouldnt have turned out as good without all the good advice! Thanks again! |
| | RE: Its Alive!! -- giacamo, 02/22/2004
sound,s like a mean combo be careful..... |
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