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 |  I have $500 to spend on my 390 Tell me what to buy -- Steve M, 02/07/2004
Ok, here is the scoop. I have a stock 1970 390 2v. I have a holley 650 4 barrel to put on it. I have $500 to spend. This is what I was thinking of buying:
Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold
Lunati Cam and lifter set
and a roller timing set.
That will soak up the money. Is there anything different anybody else would do?
Also, any suggestions on manifold gaskets? I know there are some bad ones out there.
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|  | Here is the setup also. -- Steve M, 02/07/2004
It is in a 67 galaxie with a C6 and a 3:93 gear setup. I want to make it as fast as possible with what I have to spend. It is mainly used as a street car and I do want to run it at the track every now and then for the fun.
Thanks for any advice. |
| |  | I forgot to say it already has hooker headers -- Steve M, 02/07/2004
I forgot to add that I already have hooker super comp headers on it. Other than that, it is all stock. |
| | | | You may have some -- Dave Shoe, 02/07/2004
Those hookers do NOT port match the exhaust ports on the C8AE-H heads you've got. If you are experiencing exhaust leaks along the bottom of the port, or if you hear popping when you take your foot off the gas during a decelleration, it's because the header flange weld bead is not crushing the gasket properly, since the exhaust port on most 1966-76 FE heads is 1/4" or so lower than on 1958-65, CJ, C6AE-R, 427, and Edel heads. Hooker Supercomps were developed for the latter type.
The mismatch also costs horsepower. It's my opinion that if you redrill the bolt holes in the Hookers to lower the headers on the head by half the mismatch, you'll have great gasket crush and will notably improve performance by reducing turbulents at the mismatch. It'll only cost one new set of Hooker gaskets, which leaves about $480.00 for your other goodies.
With a 650 carb, it sounds like you've got the updates well balanced. Be certain the rockers clear the valve spring retainers, and that you don't have coil-bind issues with the higher lift. Stock valve retainers are unsuitable, and this may require new valves if you can't find locks compatible with the stock valve locking grooves.
If you want to rev, the faster ramps of modern cams suggest you may also want to consider rocker end supports to help prevent excessive flexing of the rockershaft at the end positions. Also, if the engine has worn cylinders, it likely still has a cylinder ridge at the top. With increased revs, the piston rings may tend to butt harder against the ridge, resulting in ring-land damage to the cast pistins. It's not necessarily fatal if caught soon, so be aware of any unusual smoking or blowby increases, as it might suggest it's time for the next overbore size.
I'm offing both good and bad advice here, since I'm more of an FE trivia nut than an engine builder, so use with care.
Shoe. |
| | | | | Thanks for the info on the exhaust leak -- Steve M, 02/07/2004
I did notice a little exhaust leak, now I know it wasnt anything I did. Thanks for the info. Do you think summit or jegs would know what size cam I can go to so I dont have to mess with the rod sizes and etc....? I am not ready for all of that yet.. LOL |
| | | | |  | I'm not a cam wiz. -- Dave Shoe, 02/08/2004
The Hooker gasket is a good one, however it petrifies into a permanent shape after a few hundred miles and should be replaced each time it's removed.
Cams remain a little beyond my grasp. I can buy them, but have trouble explaining them. Others around here have far more experience in cam selection, and are able to select them based on your engine specs and goals.
You'd have to get lucky with the salesperson at Summit or Jegs, but they might be able to offer good info. Beter advise could be offered by the cam manufacturer's hotline, and forum advice from "someone who knows" could offer first-hand experience.
With cams, you've got to ask a bunch of folk to learn all you need to know.
Shoe.
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|  | RE:Lunati & others -- McQ, 02/08/2004
It's a good idea to actually phone Lunati or whichever cam manufacturer you might choose. They all offer tech service lines and you could explain to them directly what your specific needs are for this 390. Once you've made the specific selection on cam and or kit then you can phone Summit or Jeg's and tell them what you want. They'll get it for you even if it's not in their catalog. It may take a couple of weeks. They'll have it shipped directly to your address.
I'd just recommend that you keep it mild. And I don't think $500 will quite cover an E'brock RPM FE and a cam & kit which should include matched valve springs & retainers. |
| | RE: I have $500 to spend on my 390 Tell me what to buy -- giacamo, 02/09/2004
i,d find a stock 4v intake and good electric ingnition and spend the rest of my money on a 265 comp cam, package that coms with cam lifters timing sets springs retainers ect. i love fel pro gaskets i would do this onlie on a engin i felt was in good shape....... |
| | RE: I have $500 to spend on my 390 Tell me what to buy -- galaxie390, 02/10/2004
Steve,
Your plan sounds about right to me.
Before you add power how is your oil pressure at hot idle and say 2000?
If it's tired, the 1st $100 I spend is usually on main & rod bearings.
What is your et/mph right now?
I would add the Edel RPM 4v and your 650 Holley first. THen go back to the strip - what is your new et/mph? THis will help you know how much the cam helps when you add it next.
What pipes/mufflers do you have? That would affect my cam choice. Better mufflers are cheap, pipes are pricey unless you do it yourself which aint much fun.
We have run the 390gt/428cj cam (206-220 dur at .050, 481/490 lift) with stock 390-2v4v springs & retainers, works ok to 4800-5000 or so. If you cant do any more I would add a cam like that, lifters, roller chain.
But it will really need springs, retainers, keepers too.
The biggest cam I would run is about 220 or so dur at .050, like the c8ax-c cam, or comp cams 268 at 218 dur. The comp 280 at 230 dur is too big for your use in my opinion.
Ever weigh your car with a full tank?
4350 lb I bet. Heavy - even with a 3.93 gear, if you use too much cam it will kill your 60ft time and you will never make it up. Sure there's converters but thats $400 and a lot of work right there and then a nuisance to live with.
good luck, my dad sent galaxies off final assembly since 1959 and we've been building FE's since 1970s when 390gt CARS were $300. |
| Standard carb setup, shaker, supercharger -- dalorzo_f, 02/07/2004
Given a "moderate" street rebuilt 390, what differences would you see if you swapped the standard air cleaner for a shaker, and then again up to a supercharger?
Thinking about adding a shaker to my 68' 390GT, don't know if its just a looks issue or a signifiacnt improvement in power. At 1/4 the cost of the supercharger I know it won't do near as much. Just don't know what the general performance enhancements for the two would be.
Any insights appreciated. |
| Bent Pushrods -- Tim P., 02/06/2004
IN The Process Of The Blown Head Gaskets On My 390 I've Also Have Most Of The Pushrods are bent can this happen as a result of the head gasket blown I've never come across this issue before i was having some lifter noise before the machine shop ststed that some was normal and that 0 lash makes hp that not to worry about the noise so now i wonder if the pushrods he used were too long and also might be the cause of blowen gasket are they connected to each other issue? Any input to help answer why so when I approach the machinist about this, He does'nt try to snowball me, cause there is a warrenty on this work he performed I dont fell that this should cost me any more money to correct this problem or the guy trying to blame me for the engine failer Thanks Tim P. |
| | What do the tops of the pistons look like? -- Royce Peterson, 02/06/2004
If this is a non - stock cam you could have valves hitting pistons. Another possibility that is more likely is improper valve springs that are reaching coil bind when the valves are open fully.
Final possibility is that pushrods are hitting the intake holes.
If you have bent pushrods often the rocker shafts will be scored too. Be sure to remove the rocker arms and inspect the shafts.
The head gasket will not be related to bent pushrods.
You may need a different machinist soon.
Royce |
| | | RE: What do the tops of the pistons look like? -- Tim P., 02/06/2004
Royce The #6 Piston Was Totally Toasted The Exhaust Valve Seperated From Stem I found pieces of piston on the other bank in lifter valley and god only knows where else, so i dont belive that the head gasket had anything to do with it after pulling heads, I do know one thing this machinist is going to do a total rebuild. I most certinly am not going to accept any parts since the motor ingested pieces of metal all thru it, the cam is comp. 260H RV type however he used the existing orginals valve springs Im going to suggest he put beehive type instead and its possible that the crank could have suffered some damage from this also I think the block should be check very closely too. Any other advice you can offer will be taken into account very carefully and appreciated, Thank You in Advance, Tim. |
| | | | The crank is probably fine. -- Royce, 02/06/2004
FE cranks are pretty tough. You are lucky a rod didn't go through the side of the block.
Somebody didn't check valve to piston clearance. Not a good sign. What else did he not check?
You need to double check everything a machinist does to you unless he is someone you can trust implicitly. This fellow is not building a lot of trust right now.
If these are cast pistons, often the valve reliefs are not oriented properly to the center of the valves. For this reason the reliefs while deep enough will still catch a valve on a high RPM blast. The same problem can occur with forged pistons but not as often.
If you have oversized valves then this problem can occur even with a stock cam.
Royce |
| | | | | RE: The crank is probably fine. -- Tim P., 02/07/2004
Royce the piston are silver-o-lite hypertetic 0.30 stock heads D2TE-AA stock valve size the valve let go at 3400rpm's @70mph motor had less than 5000k and hasent yet seen 5000rpms even the valve guides he installed were almost gone, they were steel type im not a happy camper right now. |
| | | | | | Are you sure the head gasket failed? -- Dave Shoe, 02/07/2004
Bummer with the problems.
The symptoms suggest valve train failure, for reasons listed by Royce earlier, or possibly from cast iron guide failure, but not head gasket failure.
Where and how did the head gasket fail?
Note that cast iron guides generally offer good lubricity because they contain over 10% graphite by volume.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | RE: Are you sure the head gasket failed? -- Tim P., 02/07/2004
Shoe it was defiently valve train failure after removing heads and noticing that is missing a valve and very little of no #6 piston left and not a head gasket, whats you take on steel versus bronze guides and should this machinist have the motor rebalance and replace all the bearings, also any input on regular moly rings versus cast rings. Thanks Tim P.
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| | | | | | | The "steel" guides are actually cast iron. -- Dave Shoe, 02/07/2004
Steel would be a horrible guide material, and you won't find any made of it. Cast iron is a good, long lasting guide material. Just as it works in the cylinder walls because of it's large content of graphite, it also works in valve guides. Bronze is preferred in some performance applications, but I'm not sure why. I believe bronze doesn't lubricate as well as iron, and it does not last as long, but it is more forgiving under hard racing conditions. I'm presently just guessing - I seem to recall that I knew the distinction between iron and bronze guides, but I've not thought about it in a while and I've forgotten the distinctions. I used to think cast iron was inferior until learning of the lubricity of cast iron.
The cam was not particularly radical for the valve train. Still, the 2-piece rotating valve retainers of the stock engine are not at all capable of handling high-lift performance applications, and they may have been taxed a bit hard. Is there any indication that the valve retainer smacked into the valve guide or the valve seals? What condition were the valve seals in on the good cylinders? If O.K., then I suspect the valve retainers may have been fine for that application.
A more pressing issue with valve guides is typically proper reaming to size. I'm not a hotdog with this issue, but there are folk who understand the dos and don'ts of reaming and sizing guides.
I've got too little knowledge of the condition of your entire engine to be able to offer a logical failure path. I wish I could help more, but lacking sufficient info, I cannot determine whether this was "just one of those things" or whether it was a builders mistake.
If you post more details which describes a very complete picture of your engine and the symptoms which lead up to the rebuild and failure, I may be able to offer more opinion, and with luck may even come up with a logical conclusion to the failure. I do enjoy failure analysis.
As for cast iron rings: I've only used moly filled in my rebuilds, so I don't know all that much about them. I will say that all top rings are typically made of nodular cast iron and all second rings are typically made of gray cast iron. Again, the lubricity of iron-on-iron is excellent, topped only by the layer of moly-disulfide. Chrome rings lubricate poorly, but they are really abrasion resisitant and good on rougher cylinders and dirty environments. I can't imagine problems running plain cast iron rings in an FE with a good air cleaner. I believe factory rings were plain cast iron (nodular and gray), but would have to check to be sure. What cylinder wall issues are you seeing?
I'm confused by the "piston parts" you described. Did the piston fail and cause valve problems, or did the valve fail cause piston problems? You description is missing some critical pieces.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | RE: The "steel" guides are actually cast iron. -- Tim P., 02/07/2004
ok I refered to cast iron guides as steel thats what is installed Block punched out 0.30 silv-O-lites pistons all the rotation assemblies are balance i have the spec sheet on it but dont understand it much which we can discuss later if nessasary the cam is comp. 260-H 484-484 lift 260-260 or 212@.050 110.0 lobe seperation cam came with lifters, the springs are stock as well as retainers and keepers, valves are speed pro SS stock 2.02 Int - 155 Exh push rods are melling MPR-311 Rocker arms are MR-859 New stock Rocker shafts Heads are D2TE-AA milled 0.10 3 Angle valve job no Harded seats stock valve seals, Stock cast iron rings for 0.30 bore Melling HV oil pump and harden shaft Windage Tray The motor goes to the shop monday I've already gave him the heads on friday I dont see any cyl wall issues or any noticeable cyl damage wont know the rest until its all disassambled and inspected the #6 piston is 80% gone on top but still attach to rod top of rod dont show any real damage the exaust valve that let go was still attach to spring and the keepers intack the head of valve was gone 1/3rd way up motor turns over ok with socket an wrench the motor started making lifter noise after 2000k but wasnt excessively noisey but enough to bother me and felt it shouldnt have that noise on rebuild the guy stated that some was normal and (O) lash makes HP whatever that means told me to run heavier oil still didnt take care of noise also the pistons had valve reliefs cut into them like the stock dished type with the term popups type eyebrows I don't have the pt. # on pistons so i guess im asking questions now to ensure a better rebuild this time and to make sure the machinist does it to my satasfaction and of course you guys input i do have a better cam and adj rockersystem that comp sells in the box you know the pretty one blue in color for FE engines with higher lift applications the specs on this other cam i have sitting in the box is as follows .562 -.562 lift dur @.050 230 -236 would this be a good cam to run for street/ daily driving instead of the one previously mention Dave I Hope this helps you better to understand my situation any seriouse info for me would be the world to me Thanks Tim P. (Feeling Dispair In Michigan). |
| | | | | | | | | Stock valve springs? Red flag! -- Royce, 02/07/2004
Those springs are over 30 years old and have umpteen thousand miles. They probably were binding. Or they could have not enough pressure to close the valves quick enough to avoid the exhaust valve being chased towards closing by the piston going upwards.
Did the spring break on the valve that hit the piston?
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | RE: Stock valve springs? Red flag! -- Tim P., 02/07/2004
Royce The spring did not break dont know if it had stress cracks in it or if there is such termnoligy when it comes to springs |
| | | | | | | | | | Hey Royce: What FE replacement piston has... -- Dave Shoe, 02/08/2004
...mispositioned valve reliefs? I believe it might be one type of TRW 390 piston, but I don't recall. Maybe a Silvolite had the miscast valve reliefs.
Combining the weak stock valve springs with the faster and taller ramp profile of the new mild cam, and pistons which offered incorrect valve head clearance might explain the valve contact issue.
I can't find info on which cast FE piston had the mispositioned valve reliefs.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | | | | RE: Hey Royce: What FE replacement piston has... -- Tim P., 02/08/2004
not sure either but any advice on this re rebuild would and what i should do is appreciated Thank You In Advance |
| | | | | | | | | | | They are not necessarily mis positioned but -- Royce, 02/08/2004
If you install CJ size valves in a 390 / 352 the edge of the intake valve hits the relief on some of the stock Ford pistons. Don't know about the Silv - O - Lites but would check any piston of any brand.
With a bunch of bent pushrods and one broken valve and one broken piston some assembly problems existed for sure.
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | | | Maybe the worn guides caused the contact. -- Dave Shoe, 02/08/2004
This is not scientifically rigorous, since I can't see whether the guides were worn out, or fatigued, or damaged, but if fast-wearing guides were the origin of the failure, this might cause valve head misaligment sufficient to contact the piston outside the relief area, especially if the valve had to "bounce" a little to find the seat.
High res photos are really needed to make a preliminary determination here. You can email some to me if you wish, but I'm not going to be able to offer a professional diagnosis at this distance, even with photos. Maybe I can offer some strong clues, however.
I remain confused by the "blown headgasket" statement, as that was a major original issue which seems to have disappeared. What was the deal with the headgaskets?
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Maybe the worn guides caused the contact. -- Tim P., 02/08/2004
I was jumping the gun in the beginning assuming it was a head gasket because of how it let go on the highway (the smoke white and gray) since then I've pulled the heads and found the valve gone and destroyed piston however upon closer inspection today ie prepping the block for the mach shop draining the oil etc. I notice the #6 cyl has two long cracks on the outside of cyl wall starting at top running down to the bottom of cyl not on the valley side which this is very bad and I dont feel comfortable about reusing this block over since I have two other 390 blocks in my garage that havent been bored yet so any input on doing another motor and I do want it done right this time would be helpful and dave sorry I havent progress to digital camara yet, now dave you and royce seem to have a grip on theses 390FE's so any ideas on what to watch for and practices in machining of this motor would be taken in with some degree of creditablity Im all ears and I'll make sure you get a christmas card this next season, LOL And Thank You Again Guys I've come to really love this Forum and found it to be very reliable and informative and respective, Tim P. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Maybe the worn guides caused the contact. -- Tim P., 02/08/2004
Oh also as a note, none of the other pistons show any signs of valves comming into contact with the pistons tops nor did the valves on the other cyl show any marks or evidence of comming into contact with any other pistons and valves are stock size so relief cut on cyl walls dont apply as to a 428 setup right? |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Maybe the worn guides caused the contact. -- Mike, 06/30/2005
Well Tim I am going through the same exact problem after my gresh rebuild and mild cam. My heads were reconditioned about 3000 miles ago and the motor is only 1000 miles old. So far it has bent 4 pushrods and broke 2 valve springs, but it hasen't taken out a piston yet. The rebuilder says that the cam is fine and that it shouldn't be doing this. I would be interested to find out what you did to cure your problem.
Thanks |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | very odd clues -- John, 06/30/2005
If it wasn't for all the bent pushrods, I would have said incorrectly adjusted valve lash on number 6. Too loose. Valve hammers (you heard the noise) and vlave head breaks off....you can see the rest (piston breaking up), but the qty of bent rods doesn't match up. Stock springs are weak for your cam, but floating the valves doesn't seem likely as you say it hasn't been rev'd very much. Coil bind shouldn't break the valve, but will bend the pushrods. With lack of any other clues tieing everything together, it may be a co-incidence......coil bind, plus improper valve lash on #6. If this is the case, your machinist should stick to machining, and not assembly. I always assemble myself, partly becaise I enjoy it, and partly so I dont' have the "warranty fight" should things go wrong. With only myself to blame, I can get on with fixing things. Sorry for the "hindsight" comments, but if you stick with this guy, maybe do the assmebly yourslef, or get someone who has a good history do it. |
| hydraulic or solid cam? -- Ian Dobson, 02/06/2004
Here's the scenario
I drive my car less than 10,000 miles a year, probably more like 5000
I do take it out to the track a lot too.
I'm in 2 minds weather to get the CC DEH275 or the CC 282S.
the engine is as follows, a 428 FPA headers and edlebrock heads and performer RPM intake, carb is a 750 dbl pump, 4 speed in a 69 mustang.
I did have the performer RPM cam, but I returned it after peer pressure from this forum :)
If I go the solid cam route, where can I get my hads on the instructions to change the block for a solid cam, I think I understand what has to be done, but I'd rather see how to do it properly.
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| | Those cams are very close in performance. -- Royce, 02/06/2004
Sure like my 282S.
Royce |
| | | RE: Those cams are very close in performance. -- Ian Dobson, 02/06/2004
Well I ran them both through desktop dyno and the torque and power curves were almost identical, except the 282S had about 10-25Hp more throughout the curve and 10-20 ft lbs more torque throughout the curve with my combo.
I've never ran a solid cam, just wondering how much bother they are?
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| | | | Not much bother really. -- Royce Peterson, 02/06/2004
If you run the spring pressures recommended by Comp and have a decent oiling system and good cooling system the valve might need to be readjusted every 10,000 miles.
Royce |
| | | | | RE: Not much bother really. -- Ian Dobson, 02/06/2004
the heads that I have are the edelbrocks, (1 month old, still in boxes) are the spring that come with them any good?
I have a set of comp cams springs, retainers locks and seals still in boxes that I bought last year if you think it may be better to use them.
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| | | | | | I would use the Comp Cams parts. -- Royce, 02/06/2004
They are matched to the cam. The Edelbrock parts are OK too, you may be able to use them if they are checked for closed pressure and open pressure, then shimmed as required.
I have a set of Edelbrock FE heads on one of my cars with the Comp 280H cam. I used the Edelbrock springs and retainers but replaced the valve locks with some hardened ones from Crane. The springs needed to be shimmed on my heads to achieve the recommended specs for the Comp 280H.
Royce |
| Edelbrock heads -- Dano, 02/06/2004
I am having the 390 our of my 69 mustang rebuilt using the Edelbrock heads. I plan on using the FPA headers. Is it better to use studs with the aluminum heads or regular header bolts? |
| | FPA's have serious fit issues. -- Royce, 02/06/2004
Use header bolts. Studs are about impossible to use on FE headers unless you have a tube frame car.
Be sure to mount the FPA headers to the engine while it is out of the car. My set did not clear the right motor mount, the bell housing or the clutch linkage without a lot of cutting and beating on the headers.
In the car you will find that the idler arm bolts that hold the arm to the frame need to be cut off as short as possible past the nut and the header needs to be dimpled there also for clearance. I had to bend the lower arm on my clutch Z-bar about 1" to clear the lower left tube and had to cut off the engine mounted clutch ball bracket at the bottom for clearance.
Royce |
| | | Forgot to mention.... -- Royce, 02/06/2004
I had to beat in the top of the starter bendix cover some to clear the FPA headers also.
Royce |
| | | RE: FPA's have serious fit issues. -- Dano, 02/07/2004
Are the FPA headers more difficult to install than the Hookers? Can you install the Hookers before you install the engine? Or do you have to try to put them on after the engine is in? I think it would be very difficult to put headers in with the motor allready in with the tight fit next to the shock towers. This is a great website, and I really appreciate the help. I have a 69 Mach one that was originally from Kentucky, It came from the factory with a 390 and 4 speed but the original power train had been replaced with a 351 Cleveland with automatic trans. My 390 should be done next month, I will be using the Erson rockers, with the Edelbrock heads and intake. I am also wondering if anyone knows of a place near Minneapolis that sells rebuilt toploader's. |
| | | | Hookers -- greg, 02/07/2004
I have done the Hooker install both ways, once just laying them in the compartment and dropping the engine in, I think you can even bolt the passenger side up beforehand. Have heard you can put both of the FPA's on beforehand and drop the engine in but since I haven't used them I can't verify this, mostly with the Hookers I have put the car up on ramps and jacked the engine up on one side, it helps to remove the motor mount altogether, and starter, which itself is a chore to get back in once the headers are on but it can be done, the 4 speed linkage isn't too bad to get in and out, but take the brake booster off if you have power brakes so you can get your hands down there. Takes the better part of a day, a few wrenches and some words not appropriate for women and children. ARP makes some header bolts with a 3/8 head rather than the standard 7/16 which makes it easier to get a wrench on in the tight places, which in this case means just about every bolt. On my 69 which has the reinforced shock towers the 3rd bolt back on the passenger side will hit, in fact even the header flange hit the reinforcement so I just cut the flange down about a 1/4 inch, and there are a couple other bolts up top that you won't be able to get in so you'll have to settle for 3 out of 4, tighten em a couple times after you get it hot, a pain in the a**, but much easier than changing the gaskets. Good luck |
| | | | I have Hookers on one of my other cars -- Royce, 02/07/2004
Fit perfectly. No beating, no cutting the motor mount, no cutting the bolts, just fit perfectly to my Edelbrock FE heads.
I used some of ARP's stainless 3/8 header bolts and really liked them.
I installed the motor with the tranny and bellhousing already in place. I laid the FPA's in the engine bay, lowered the engine into place with the motor about 1" above the mounts and installed the header bolts. About a 3 hour job once all the obstructions were cleared in the preceding two days of labor .
Royce |
| | RE: Edelbrock heads -- Gerry Proctor, 02/06/2004
Studs are not an option, as Royce pointed out. Using the Edelbrock heads with their 16-bolt CJ exhaust pattern and high port makes you a perfect candidate for Hooker's designs. They bolt up nicely. But be forewarned...installing headers, even if they fit perfectly, is one of the most daunting things you will do on a bigblock unibody Ford car. |
| | | RE: Edelbrock heads -- Dano, 02/07/2004
Which bolt pattern do you mean? Do the Cobra Jet heads use the same exaust bolt pattern similar to a truck or full size car FE engine? I thought all Mustangs used the same bolt pattern, which is diffrent from the full size cars and trucks. Also, I haven't ordered the heads yet but I thought they came with both bolt patterns allready drilled and tapped. |
| | | | Edelbrock = CJ bolt pattern -- Royce, 02/07/2004
There were two bolt patterns used in Mustang / Cougar / Fairlane / Comet unibody midsize Fomoco cars.
The 390GT engines used a 14 bolt pattern with a very low exhaust port. The port location is the same as 352 - 390 full size Fords but the bolt pattern is unique to the smaller cars.
The 428CJ pattern is used on Edelbrock heads. This uses a higher exhaust port location identical to the 427 exhaust port location. There are 16 bolt holes, eight per side being used for the midsize Fomoco CJ exhaust manifolds. The other eight holes allowed the 428CJ heads to be used as service replacement on the earlier full size Fords and Mercurys with the 427 Low Riser engine.
The Edelbrock heads are an improved version of the 427 Medium Riser design.
Royce |
| | | | | RE: Edelbrock = CJ bolt pattern -- Dano, 02/08/2004
Thanks for the help guys. It really helps to hear from people who have done this stuff before. Now that I know what to expect, there will be less swearing in the garage this spring. |
| 67 mustang factory tachometer -- robby robinson, 02/06/2004
is there any way to hook up msd 6al to the 6000 rpm tach or do i have to have it recalibrated?any help would by helpful thank you. i have a friend who spent 400 dollars to have the tach fixed. do i need to do this? |
| | MSD sells a tach adapter for this. -- Royce, 02/06/2004
The Mustang tach is the "current sensing" type. Call MSD's 800 number and they will give you the part number. Or pull out the instruction booklet that came with your MSD, it has a wiring diagram and the part number for hookup of the Mustang factory tach. I have one on my '68 Cougar with the same factory tach, it works fine. Cost about $40.
Royce |
| Opinion 390 intake maniifold -- Lew, 02/05/2004
Currently have 1968 390 Ford block in my 1969 Mach 1.
Block: C7MEA date 7L1
Heads: C8AE H
Intake: C8AE 9425-A date 7H17
"S" appears on # 1 runner.
Carb: C5AF Z
Comp Cam : 33-207-3 Adv Dur; INT= 265 Ext= 275, DUR @ 050:Int= 211 Ext =223
Lift Int=.484 Ext= .510
Basically, mild stock CAM.
The engine has just been rebuilt with the stock heads and hardened valve seats. Block Bored 60 over. Therefore, wish to keep heads.
Questions: I was thinking about an Edelbrock
Performer or Performer RPM Intake with a Edelbrock 1405 Carb. I have read mixed opinions on which to use. Which would be best suited for my use. Looking for street performance.
What advantage are these in terms of HP and performance over my current setup?
Thanks in advance. |
| | RE: Opinion 390 intake maniifold -- Tim P., 02/05/2004
Lew From what i've read from past forums the performer RPM is the way to go for your applications read the forums on this matter do a search on this subject matter it should answer all your questions Tim P. |
| | RE: Opinion 390 intake maniifold -- galaxie390, 02/10/2004
Lew,
If you had a Galaxie or Truck I would say maybe the Performer, but on a light Mustang go with the RPM, DEFINITELY. Definitely.
It will add about 10-15 hp. Where is that from? Check out the old Muscle Parts books - and the very similar 428pi intake.
So you will add about 1.5 mph or so and at least a full car length at the strip.
Oh I forgot - it's also 50 lb off the front end so on a Mustang that will be worth nearly 0.1 sec also.
The cam you have is very close to the 390gt/428cj, way bigger than stock 390.
So your 390 - uh, I mean, your "402" - should make about an honest 335 ghp set up this way. |
| | RE: Opinion 390 intake maniifold -- warren, 03/13/2004
Lew, your block date was 7L1, which means December 1, 1967. It is likely a 1967 390 and not a 1968, as you indicated. Your intake for a 69 Mustang should indicate a C9ZZ casting if it is an original intake for a 69 Mustang. If you like the original look, you could rework your C8AE-H heads to 428 CJ specs, add CJ heads or go with Edelbrock' RMP, if originality appearence is not as important to you. Adding an aluminum 428 PI intake is also an option. Of course carburation changes and lower gear ratio's in the Differential may provide you with performance gains as well, from streetlight to streetlight. |
| Calling all FE gurus.... -- Mr.Bassn, 02/05/2004
Ok ..new project beginning asap. I am building a 390. I need to get as much torque as possible . What machine work or mods can I do or parts can I add to achieve maximum torque from this engine? It will go in a half ton truck that is used for hauling wood,construction equipment, and recreational vehicles as well as trail driving. I believe the r/p gear ratio is 3.50 and it has a manual np435 transmission. The heads are stock D2's Thanks all.
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| | How much weight are you, -- Lou, 02/05/2004
going to be towing, what kind of driving, hightway etc? |
| | | RE: How much weight are you, -- Mr.Bassn, 02/05/2004
I do not know how much wt. But I only drive it at 55 mph occasionaly. |
| | | | RE: How much weight are you, -- giacamo, 02/05/2004
find a set of 391 truck heads and 4v intake the small ports and small valves build lots of tork it will kill your rpm,s to aprox 4500 but thay seam to last forever........... |
| | | | I would run a 2 barrel carb and, -- Lou, 02/06/2004
change the rear gear to mid high 4s, like 4.10, or 4.30. you will have enought torque to pull a barn over. I good stock rebuild with a very mild stock cam is all you need. Spend the money you save on a 7 Quart oil pan, headers and a free flowing exhaust system, and the biggest ratiator you can find. |
| direct port fuel injection -- Charlie, 02/04/2004
Quick survey,
I built one this fall and I am considering manufacturing them on a larger scale and offering them to the public.
A direct port fuel injection manifold and fuel rails designed with bosch injectors and accel or holley fuel management in mind, possibly even a stock ford cpu.
What would you be willing to pay for the intake and billet fuel rails ready for installation?
Thanks for the help guys.
Charlie
femustang@bresnan.net |
| | RE: FE head flow data -- galaxie390, 02/10/2004
Interesting site!
The c4ae-g numbers sound high like they're ported or something.
I like the notion that they are worth 485 hp too! (?)
Note that this site says the same flow numbers for c4ae-g and 428cj heads - - - even those cj numbers sound a bit high to me.
It would be nice to know for sure though...
IN any case that was a very helpful site! |
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