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Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14739&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Nned help!! headers on a 66 f100 351w</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Steve, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have a 1966 Ford F100 2WD - I have replaced the 352 FE-Engine with a 351 Windsor and Now i am having a problem finding out what Headers will fit on this Engine / Frame Combo because the 66 did not have a 351 Windsor in it originally - Can anyone please assit me in determining the right combo?  Any Help would be greatly appreciated<br>Thanks in Advance<br>Steve </blockquote> Nned help!! headers on a 66 f100 351w -- Steve, 10/05/2002
I have a 1966 Ford F100 2WD - I have replaced the 352 FE-Engine with a 351 Windsor and Now i am having a problem finding out what Headers will fit on this Engine / Frame Combo because the 66 did not have a 351 Windsor in it originally - Can anyone please assit me in determining the right combo? Any Help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in Advance
Steve
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14741&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Since it's 2WD, try a later model...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dan Davis, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>likely will fit as you should have plenty of room.  I have a Hooker catalog handy, which lists part number 6912HKR to fit a 1980-95 pickup (all sizes) w/351W  I am sure other brands will have a similar listing.<br><br>Regards,<br>Dan </blockquote> Since it's 2WD, try a later model... -- Dan Davis, 10/05/2002
likely will fit as you should have plenty of room. I have a Hooker catalog handy, which lists part number 6912HKR to fit a 1980-95 pickup (all sizes) w/351W I am sure other brands will have a similar listing.

Regards,
Dan
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14742&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Since it's 2WD, try a later model...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Steve, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Later Model ?? You mean a like a 1969 ?  That was my next question The Header Books Have 351W Applications for the F100 in 1969 Could i use that Application for my needs? </blockquote> RE: Since it's 2WD, try a later model... -- Steve, 10/05/2002
Later Model ?? You mean a like a 1969 ? That was my next question The Header Books Have 351W Applications for the F100 in 1969 Could i use that Application for my needs?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14744&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>as long as your frame is a twin I-beam suspension</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>hawkrod, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>the frames are the same from 66 to 79 so the 69 will work. hawkrod </blockquote> as long as your frame is a twin I-beam suspension -- hawkrod, 10/05/2002
the frames are the same from 66 to 79 so the 69 will work. hawkrod
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14745&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: as long as your frame is a twin I-beam suspension</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Steve, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Forgive my ignorance - How would i know the difference? </blockquote> RE: as long as your frame is a twin I-beam suspension -- Steve, 10/05/2002
Forgive my ignorance - How would i know the difference?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14752&Reply=14739><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Dont worry about it.......</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>kevin, <i>10/06/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>they will drop right in there. I have even swapped 289 headers in depending on brand. All 65-up are twin I beam. Its just Fords term, and you will see if you look at the inner pivot mountings what it means. The other styles are straight axle, a single beam connecting each sides spindles, supported by leaf springs, an "A" frame set up that has pivots at the frame and uses a coil spring (GM) or a torsion bar (Dodge) with A frames, that uses no springs and relies on the twisting of a shaft to control the suspension. Just make sure you get a set of headers that have rectangular openings, as some are oval, and are harder to seal, but I weld up every header no matter what its for (around the outside of the tube where it joins the flange) and grind the openings to suit me. This way,they dont rust out, or crack, and can supprt an unhung muffler's weight if you want to just bolt them to the collector. </blockquote> Dont worry about it....... -- kevin, 10/06/2002
they will drop right in there. I have even swapped 289 headers in depending on brand. All 65-up are twin I beam. Its just Fords term, and you will see if you look at the inner pivot mountings what it means. The other styles are straight axle, a single beam connecting each sides spindles, supported by leaf springs, an "A" frame set up that has pivots at the frame and uses a coil spring (GM) or a torsion bar (Dodge) with A frames, that uses no springs and relies on the twisting of a shaft to control the suspension. Just make sure you get a set of headers that have rectangular openings, as some are oval, and are harder to seal, but I weld up every header no matter what its for (around the outside of the tube where it joins the flange) and grind the openings to suit me. This way,they dont rust out, or crack, and can supprt an unhung muffler's weight if you want to just bolt them to the collector.
 In closing -- Steve, 10/06/2002
SO if i simply Order HEaders for a 351W in 1969 Ford F100 2WD - I will not have any issues of these bolting in correct?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14736&Reply=14736><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Any help please, 428 rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>nasgab, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>First, I'm going back almost 30 years here. I had a 70' Mach 1, 428 Cobra Jet and a couple of broken intakes destroyed the engine. When I opened it up the rods had the word "NASCAR" cast into them. What is the significance? I sold them at the time to a friend who had them polished, which wiped out the "NASCAR" on them. Were these stock rods? Thanks for your time.<br>Nasgab  </blockquote> Any help please, 428 rods -- nasgab, 10/04/2002
First, I'm going back almost 30 years here. I had a 70' Mach 1, 428 Cobra Jet and a couple of broken intakes destroyed the engine. When I opened it up the rods had the word "NASCAR" cast into them. What is the significance? I sold them at the time to a friend who had them polished, which wiped out the "NASCAR" on them. Were these stock rods? Thanks for your time.
Nasgab
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14738&Reply=14736><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Any help please, 428 rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Pete, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>428 SCJ came with different rods than a standard CJ. They were much much stronger. Did you also have an oil cooler? 3.91 or 4.31 gears? This would be a "drag pack" Mustang. </blockquote> RE: Any help please, 428 rods -- Pete, 10/04/2002
428 SCJ came with different rods than a standard CJ. They were much much stronger. Did you also have an oil cooler? 3.91 or 4.31 gears? This would be a "drag pack" Mustang.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14743&Reply=14736><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Any help please, 428 rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>nasgab, <i>10/05/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>If I remember right, I'm sure I had an oil cooler and I think that I had a 3.91 rear end. </blockquote> RE: Any help please, 428 rods -- nasgab, 10/05/2002
If I remember right, I'm sure I had an oil cooler and I think that I had a 3.91 rear end.
 Nowhere on the rods I have or have seen...... -- kevin, 10/06/2002
has there ever been the word "Nascar". That includes the std LeMans, SCJ's, and Nascar rods, which are special and need a wider journal, bearing, and crank with heavier counterweights as the are much heavier than any others. But, you never know what you find in some engines. The part #, sometimes engineering #, and Ford logo are on most, and not where they get polished off on the beams. Yes, you must have had a Drag Pack option, and probably roasted the tires right off it like most people did, and collected a "few?" tickets along the way, LOL.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14755&Reply=14736><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Really - 'cast' lettering? How about 'written' or scratched? [n/m]</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mr F, <i>10/06/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>n/m </blockquote> Really - 'cast' lettering? How about 'written' or scratched? [n/m] -- Mr F, 10/06/2002
n/m
 RE: Really - 'cast' lettering? How about 'written' or scratched? [n/m] -- nasgab, 10/06/2002
I promise, it was cast. Plus, when I took the engine apart it was all of 3 years old. Damn intake valves. and yes, it WAS hard on tires.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14730&Reply=14730><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>shrinking valve springs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ron, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Is there a way to compress valve springs (289 V8) without removing the head?  I need to replace valve stem seals and I heard there was a tool and a way (cylinder air pressure) that would allow me to avoid the work of removing the head...anyone know for sure?  thanx, for any help </blockquote> shrinking valve springs -- ron, 10/04/2002
Is there a way to compress valve springs (289 V8) without removing the head? I need to replace valve stem seals and I heard there was a tool and a way (cylinder air pressure) that would allow me to avoid the work of removing the head...anyone know for sure? thanx, for any help
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14732&Reply=14730><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>There are two ways...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dan Davis, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>...first is to use an adaptor to pump air into the cylinder via the spark plug hole.  These can be bought or made from an old spark plug (gutted) with an air hose fitting welded to it.<br><br>The second involves a length of clothes line (1/4" or so).  Stuff this into the cylinder and rotate the engine (by hand!) until it is wedged against the valves.  Works great, won't hurt anything, don't cost anything!<br><br>With either method, use a rubber mallet and give the retainer a couple of good wacks to loosen the locks from the retainer.  Then use a on-head spring compressor (looks like an L-shaped piece of stamped metal) over the stud to remove the retainers/locks.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Dan </blockquote> There are two ways... -- Dan Davis, 10/04/2002
...first is to use an adaptor to pump air into the cylinder via the spark plug hole. These can be bought or made from an old spark plug (gutted) with an air hose fitting welded to it.

The second involves a length of clothes line (1/4" or so). Stuff this into the cylinder and rotate the engine (by hand!) until it is wedged against the valves. Works great, won't hurt anything, don't cost anything!

With either method, use a rubber mallet and give the retainer a couple of good wacks to loosen the locks from the retainer. Then use a on-head spring compressor (looks like an L-shaped piece of stamped metal) over the stud to remove the retainers/locks.

Cheers,
Dan
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14733&Reply=14730><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>More info on method two...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dan Davis, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>...I meant the diameter of the clothes line should be 1/4" or so.  The length should be 3-4 feet.  Be sure to leave some sticking out of the plug hole so you can retrieve it (duh!).<br><br>Regards,<br>Dan </blockquote> More info on method two... -- Dan Davis, 10/04/2002
...I meant the diameter of the clothes line should be 1/4" or so. The length should be 3-4 feet. Be sure to leave some sticking out of the plug hole so you can retrieve it (duh!).

Regards,
Dan
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14734&Reply=14730><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: More info on method two...</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>ron, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>thanx, I'll give it a try.  Wouldn't have a picture of the tool though would ya?  Is it available at Sears? or where? </blockquote> RE: More info on method two... -- ron, 10/04/2002
thanx, I'll give it a try. Wouldn't have a picture of the tool though would ya? Is it available at Sears? or where?
 Tool can be had from Snap-On or similar [n/m] -- Dan Davis, 10/04/2002
nm
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14727&Reply=14727><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Off setting the bore questions.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Josh, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>First step sonic map of the block.<br>Second step is to offset the bores to retain max meat.<br>What is the max you can offset a bore (.030)?<br>Do you have to modify the crank, rods, or pistons in anyway to accomidate the offset or is it negliible?<br><br>Thanks,<br>Josh </blockquote> Off setting the bore questions. -- Josh, 10/04/2002
First step sonic map of the block.
Second step is to offset the bores to retain max meat.
What is the max you can offset a bore (.030)?
Do you have to modify the crank, rods, or pistons in anyway to accomidate the offset or is it negliible?

Thanks,
Josh
 Off setting the boring means.... -- Just Strokin, 10/04/2002
you are shifting the boring bar in relation to the center of the current bore to give you safe cylinder wall thickness in all directions. It may only be shifted a few thousandths or may be shifted a few hundreths. This shift will not normally affect any alignment that the current clearances can't take care of during engine operation.

This shift takes into consideration how much you are going to 'over' bore the block from std bore size.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14723&Reply=14723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>67 Galaxe 4 speed swap</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ted Young, <i>10/03/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I am looking to convert my 390 auto galaxie to a 4 speed.  I was wondering if anyone could answer some questions I have.  Did the 67 full size 4 speed cars have reverse lockout shifters like the 67 mustang?  Is a 66 Galaxie shifter the same as a 67?  Are the auto and 4 speed cross memebers the same on these cars?  Does anyone out there have any conversion parts for sale?<br><br>Thanks,<br>Ted Young </blockquote> 67 Galaxe 4 speed swap -- Ted Young, 10/03/2002
I am looking to convert my 390 auto galaxie to a 4 speed. I was wondering if anyone could answer some questions I have. Did the 67 full size 4 speed cars have reverse lockout shifters like the 67 mustang? Is a 66 Galaxie shifter the same as a 67? Are the auto and 4 speed cross memebers the same on these cars? Does anyone out there have any conversion parts for sale?

Thanks,
Ted Young
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14724&Reply=14723><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 67 Galaxe 4 speed swap</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Jim Wisker, <i>10/03/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have a 1967 Galaxie XL factory 4-speed car. Yes, they have reverse lockout. I believe the '66 shifter is the same, but I can not confirm that. The cross members should also be the same for auto/manual. Make sure you get a toploader from a '65-up full size, as they had a different tail housing than the rest. I would suggest finding as many parts from one vehicle since they are unique to the full size. I have been looking for a Hurst shifter for mine, but Hurst no longer makes it. </blockquote> RE: 67 Galaxe 4 speed swap -- Jim Wisker, 10/03/2002
I have a 1967 Galaxie XL factory 4-speed car. Yes, they have reverse lockout. I believe the '66 shifter is the same, but I can not confirm that. The cross members should also be the same for auto/manual. Make sure you get a toploader from a '65-up full size, as they had a different tail housing than the rest. I would suggest finding as many parts from one vehicle since they are unique to the full size. I have been looking for a Hurst shifter for mine, but Hurst no longer makes it.
 RE: 67 Galaxe 4 speed swap -- Jeff, 10/04/2002
He Jim, try here for the Hurst shifter: http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/ Give David a call & I'll bet he can help you out.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14720&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>428 NASCAR rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>nasgab, <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>First, I'm going back almost 30 years here. I had a 70' Mach 1, 428 Cobra Jet and a couple of broken intakes destroyed the engine. When I opened it up the rods had the word "NASCAR" cast into them. What is the significance? I sold them at the time to a friend who had them polished, which wiped out the "NASCAR" on them. Were these stock rods? Thanks for your time.<br>Nasgab </blockquote> 428 NASCAR rods -- nasgab, 10/02/2002
First, I'm going back almost 30 years here. I had a 70' Mach 1, 428 Cobra Jet and a couple of broken intakes destroyed the engine. When I opened it up the rods had the word "NASCAR" cast into them. What is the significance? I sold them at the time to a friend who had them polished, which wiped out the "NASCAR" on them. Were these stock rods? Thanks for your time.
Nasgab
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14768&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 428 NASCAR rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Gerry Proctor, <i>10/08/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>There were NASCAR rods used in the 427 but they required a different crank.  These rods had a wider big end (+0.040 for each rod or +.080 for the journal set)and without significant machine work, would not fit on a standard FE crank.  I really doubt you'd be able to safely machine a standard crank the additional .080 to fit these rods.  Now, that only leaves one real possibility -that the engine was also fitted with the matching 427 NASCAR crank (C9AZ-6303-D).  Which means that the engine was a de-stroked 428 (meaning a 406-inch based upon a 428) or that your 428 was never a 428.  The 428 would have come with a standard rod with bolts and nuts or the capscrew LeMans rods in the Super Cobra Jet, both with a standard rod width.  The wide rods and companion crank were never installed in an engine for a production chassis.  It was an over-the-counter piece.<br><br>Now, I've never heard of the word NASCAR being part of the forging blank.  They were, like all Ford, parts coded with the appropriate alpha/numeric stamping, in this case C7OE-6200-A </blockquote> RE: 428 NASCAR rods -- Gerry Proctor, 10/08/2002
There were NASCAR rods used in the 427 but they required a different crank. These rods had a wider big end (+0.040 for each rod or +.080 for the journal set)and without significant machine work, would not fit on a standard FE crank. I really doubt you'd be able to safely machine a standard crank the additional .080 to fit these rods. Now, that only leaves one real possibility -that the engine was also fitted with the matching 427 NASCAR crank (C9AZ-6303-D). Which means that the engine was a de-stroked 428 (meaning a 406-inch based upon a 428) or that your 428 was never a 428. The 428 would have come with a standard rod with bolts and nuts or the capscrew LeMans rods in the Super Cobra Jet, both with a standard rod width. The wide rods and companion crank were never installed in an engine for a production chassis. It was an over-the-counter piece.

Now, I've never heard of the word NASCAR being part of the forging blank. They were, like all Ford, parts coded with the appropriate alpha/numeric stamping, in this case C7OE-6200-A
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14777&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 428 NASCAR rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>nasgab, <i>10/08/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I swear to God, which I know I shouldn't do, that it said "NASCAR" on the rods. It's something you wouldn't forget if you saw it. It stood out. I bought the car when it was only 2 years old, maybe 2 1/2, so maybe the previous owner might have opened the engine up and put them in, but I know I wouldn't have.<br>Anyway, it was an awesome car and I wish I still had it. Not for what it would be worth now but because it was special to me. At least I know it now, anyway. Thanks for all of your input into the mystery, which evidently still is a mystery. I miss my Cobra Jet.  </blockquote> RE: 428 NASCAR rods -- nasgab, 10/08/2002
I swear to God, which I know I shouldn't do, that it said "NASCAR" on the rods. It's something you wouldn't forget if you saw it. It stood out. I bought the car when it was only 2 years old, maybe 2 1/2, so maybe the previous owner might have opened the engine up and put them in, but I know I wouldn't have.
Anyway, it was an awesome car and I wish I still had it. Not for what it would be worth now but because it was special to me. At least I know it now, anyway. Thanks for all of your input into the mystery, which evidently still is a mystery. I miss my Cobra Jet.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14784&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 428 NASCAR rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Gerry Proctor, <i>10/09/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Except for UFO sightings, I never dispute personal observations and I'm not questioning what you saw.  I've never myself handled a set of NASCAR rods so who am I to say they do or don't have NASCAR on the forging blank?  Or, more precisely, what those rods were and how they got into your engine.  I just don't think that the NASCAR rods were swinging from a 428 crank -at least not without some serious machine work.<br>&lt;p&gt;You can theorize just about anything when you can't confirm the engine's origins and integrity.  It's even possible that the past owner put a 427 with the NASCAR parts between your fenders.  Everything to build a NASCAR FE was available over the counter back then (block, crank, rods, heads...you name it) so that theory that makes as much sense as anything else. </blockquote> RE: 428 NASCAR rods -- Gerry Proctor, 10/09/2002
Except for UFO sightings, I never dispute personal observations and I'm not questioning what you saw. I've never myself handled a set of NASCAR rods so who am I to say they do or don't have NASCAR on the forging blank? Or, more precisely, what those rods were and how they got into your engine. I just don't think that the NASCAR rods were swinging from a 428 crank -at least not without some serious machine work.
<p>You can theorize just about anything when you can't confirm the engine's origins and integrity. It's even possible that the past owner put a 427 with the NASCAR parts between your fenders. Everything to build a NASCAR FE was available over the counter back then (block, crank, rods, heads...you name it) so that theory that makes as much sense as anything else.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14802&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 428 NASCAR rods</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Terry Bauer, <i>10/12/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I have a quick question about FE connecting rods.  I am rebuilding my first FE (a 390 to be exact).  I know that this engine has been rebuilt before, but the connecting rods look fine.  My question is, what should the connecting rod specifications be?  (In particular, the factory specs on the connecting rod bearing bore.)  Thanks in advance! </blockquote> RE: 428 NASCAR rods -- Terry Bauer, 10/12/2002
I have a quick question about FE connecting rods. I am rebuilding my first FE (a 390 to be exact). I know that this engine has been rebuilt before, but the connecting rods look fine. My question is, what should the connecting rod specifications be? (In particular, the factory specs on the connecting rod bearing bore.) Thanks in advance!
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14809&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Rod clearances</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>John, <i>10/12/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Piston Pin Bushing ID:<br>0.9752-0.9755<br><br>Piston Pin Bushing Max out-of-round:<br>0.0004<br><br>Bearing Bore Dia:<br>2.5907-2.5915<br><br>Bearing Bore Max Out-of-Round and Taper:<br>0.0004<br><br>Center to center Length:<br>6.486-6.490<br><br>Connecting Rod max Twist:<br>0.012 (measured with bars inserted and at 4" away from rod)<br><br>Connecting Rod max Bend:<br>0.004 (measured as above)<br><br>Side Clearance:<br>0.010-0.020 (wear limit 0.023 max)<br><br>Bearing to Crank Clearance:<br>0.0008-0.0026 allowable<br>0.0008-0.0015 desired<br><br>Wall Thickness:<br>0.0755-0.0760<br><br>These are the factory specs.  Note that most HP engine builders go for a crank to rod bearing clearance of 0.0025.  I prefer 0.002 unless it is meant to be revved over 5500 rpm.<br> </blockquote> RE: 390 Rod clearances -- John, 10/12/2002
Piston Pin Bushing ID:
0.9752-0.9755

Piston Pin Bushing Max out-of-round:
0.0004

Bearing Bore Dia:
2.5907-2.5915

Bearing Bore Max Out-of-Round and Taper:
0.0004

Center to center Length:
6.486-6.490

Connecting Rod max Twist:
0.012 (measured with bars inserted and at 4" away from rod)

Connecting Rod max Bend:
0.004 (measured as above)

Side Clearance:
0.010-0.020 (wear limit 0.023 max)

Bearing to Crank Clearance:
0.0008-0.0026 allowable
0.0008-0.0015 desired

Wall Thickness:
0.0755-0.0760

These are the factory specs. Note that most HP engine builders go for a crank to rod bearing clearance of 0.0025. I prefer 0.002 unless it is meant to be revved over 5500 rpm.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14810&Reply=14720><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: 390 Rod clearances</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Terry Bauer, <i>10/12/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks John!<br>This is a great help!  I really appreciate this information.  The next chance I get I am going to mic my rods.  Thanks again for the quick response! </blockquote> RE: 390 Rod clearances -- Terry Bauer, 10/12/2002
Thanks John!
This is a great help! I really appreciate this information. The next chance I get I am going to mic my rods. Thanks again for the quick response!
 Although you can mic them....... -- kevin, 10/13/2002















you should really take them in and have it done on the proper rod fixture gauge. Make them clean (Simple Green, or Mean Green, and some scotch brite, gloves, and the kitchen sink when the old lady is gone) deburr the parting lines with great care, and dress the sides with a stone, or fine sand paper. Ford used 20 wt oil on assy for their engines (on the threads). If you have a bolt that is loose, or you knocked it out, that is suspect for roundness after that (but not always). A rod vise is advisable for torquing them up to check them. You can dress the nut faces with a stone, and use a good moly lube at the junction of the nut to cap. Dont get it on the threads. The nuts, when clean and dry, should spin on and off freely without a catch. The Sunnen three point system set up will show it's true out of roundness far better than a hand held mic. It wont be round after running, seldom are. It's a good parallel set of bolts when you can slide the cap on and off without fighting it. You can mic the big end width "cloverleafs" to check for hourglassing. Look in the pin bushing, see the stains from the bushing being worked into the cutting tool marks in the small end housing bore? You are looking for a consistant pattern. Look for the seam of the bushing to make sure it is not starting to split. If you need bushings, straighten the rod first. This will insure no thin spots as you bore it. The Sunnen gauge can check their condition at different depths. I stongly recomend you search out a shop with a Sunnen "Powerstroker", as there is no better machine to be used. If you need them reconned, get the ARP bolts. While honing, they need to be sized right on the low limit (small side) for maximum bearing crush. I did them .0001-.00015 oversize while honing, and then walked away, let them cool off to room temp, checked them later and they were right on. Ask for a #14 stone for the finish. This is the finest stone, and will aid in the bearing shell to housing bore heat transfer the best (FE's are the most needy in this area). All in all, they are a tough piece that will take an awful lot of abuse when prepped right.







Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14715&Reply=14715><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>why not new tunnelport type heads configured</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>why not, <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>for the 390 or 428?   Would it work and is the market there for it?  Or would the power overwhelm the the engine's ability to stay together?.   </blockquote> why not new tunnelport type heads configured -- why not, 10/02/2002
for the 390 or 428? Would it work and is the market there for it? Or would the power overwhelm the the engine's ability to stay together?.
 Let's do the math... -- Dan Davis, 10/04/2002
....to find out why:

Design a new head:
1 contract engineer + software x 6 months = $100,000
1 contract CAD designer + software x 2 months = $18,000
Prototype cycles x 3 = $75,000

Make it:
Sand cast tooling (match plates, core boxes): $80,000
Machining & part handling dunnage: $25,000

OK, so now we've got $298,000 and no heads yet. Let's do a run of 100 pairs.

Raw castings: $1,000 set up charge, $200/head
Machine the castings: $1000 set up charge, $300/head. These will be lower with a higher volume.

That's another $102,000.

So, we have 100 pairs of heads and have spent $400K. That's a COST of $4000 each pair. Now the manufacturer needs to get his profit (50% margin on such a low margin) and sell them to the wholesaler for $8K a pair. The retailer needs his 50% margin, so they will retail for $16K a pair.

To get the economics more sensible, like $3000/pair bare retail price, the manufacturer would need to sell about 2000 pairs to break even. That is after investing $1.3M not counting any marketing, advertising, storage or transportation costs.

Don't sound like a good business move to me.

Regards,
Dan
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14712&Reply=14712><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Lots of new on 390...still some problems</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Darel, <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote> I have a '61 T-Bird with a '66 390 on it. I finally got around to giving it a good tuneup and adding some other parts, b/c the choke on my carb was broken and basically it just needed everything. Here's a list of everything I put on it: <br>- Holley 4106 carb (new, elec. choke, vac sec.) <br>- Pertronix Ignitor II <br>- Pertronix Flamethrower II coil <br>- Accel 8mm spiral-core plug wires <br>- Autolite Platinum plugs (gapped to .045) <br>- Ford Racing "big cap" distributor cap conversion <br><br>After doing all that, I still have a hard start problem. In the past after doing all this to an old engine it would easily fire off on the first or second crank, but my T-Bird requires a great deal of pumping to catch, and then sputters for a few seconds before all cylinders begin to fire. Do I maybe need to close up that spark gap? <br>In addition to the hard start problem, my transmission slips. I believe this is actually due to my kickdown linkage and not a true tranny problem, since it feels like it hangs up between gears, but quickly letting off the gas and getting right back on it will correct it. How should I adjust this linkage? <br>Also, I have a small exhaust leak out of my driver's exh. manifold. No big deal, but it putt-putts under load. The odd thing is that sometimes when I let off the gas I can hear an odd, muffled putt-putt (not like I would expect from a hung-up linkage) coming from the leak. Again, is my tranny hanging up in gear or what? I have made sure not to run plug wires 7 & 8 next to one another to prevent crossfire, yet maybe it seems like this is what's happening. <br>In addition to all this, the car really seems down on power. I would think after all these add-ons and replacing all that old crap I would notice an increase in power, but now it seems weaker and these other problems I mentioned have popped up. Similarly, the new carb did not get rid of the hesitation problem I had before. Do I need to bump up to the 50cc pump? <br>Some other notes: I had to turn the fast idle on the new carb way down from the factory setting. I got it to idle correctly, and it pulls 17 in. of vacuum at idle. It is very smooth and quiet, and I used the vac gauge to adjust the mixture screws. I don't really think this is the problem but it could be. My timing is set at 10deg., there is no pinging even on cheap gas. It seemed to run best at about 15 deg (I don't know since the scale doesn't go that high) but since my book only recommends 2-10 deg BTDC I set it at the max. Maybe I need to correlate my timing with the new ignition and wider plug gap? <br>Sorry this post is so long, but I'd like to get all these problems squared away once and for all. Thank you very much for any help you can provide. <br>Darel Matthews <br> </blockquote> Lots of new on 390...still some problems -- Darel, 10/02/2002
I have a '61 T-Bird with a '66 390 on it. I finally got around to giving it a good tuneup and adding some other parts, b/c the choke on my carb was broken and basically it just needed everything. Here's a list of everything I put on it:
- Holley 4106 carb (new, elec. choke, vac sec.)
- Pertronix Ignitor II
- Pertronix Flamethrower II coil
- Accel 8mm spiral-core plug wires
- Autolite Platinum plugs (gapped to .045)
- Ford Racing "big cap" distributor cap conversion

After doing all that, I still have a hard start problem. In the past after doing all this to an old engine it would easily fire off on the first or second crank, but my T-Bird requires a great deal of pumping to catch, and then sputters for a few seconds before all cylinders begin to fire. Do I maybe need to close up that spark gap?
In addition to the hard start problem, my transmission slips. I believe this is actually due to my kickdown linkage and not a true tranny problem, since it feels like it hangs up between gears, but quickly letting off the gas and getting right back on it will correct it. How should I adjust this linkage?
Also, I have a small exhaust leak out of my driver's exh. manifold. No big deal, but it putt-putts under load. The odd thing is that sometimes when I let off the gas I can hear an odd, muffled putt-putt (not like I would expect from a hung-up linkage) coming from the leak. Again, is my tranny hanging up in gear or what? I have made sure not to run plug wires 7 & 8 next to one another to prevent crossfire, yet maybe it seems like this is what's happening.
In addition to all this, the car really seems down on power. I would think after all these add-ons and replacing all that old crap I would notice an increase in power, but now it seems weaker and these other problems I mentioned have popped up. Similarly, the new carb did not get rid of the hesitation problem I had before. Do I need to bump up to the 50cc pump?
Some other notes: I had to turn the fast idle on the new carb way down from the factory setting. I got it to idle correctly, and it pulls 17 in. of vacuum at idle. It is very smooth and quiet, and I used the vac gauge to adjust the mixture screws. I don't really think this is the problem but it could be. My timing is set at 10deg., there is no pinging even on cheap gas. It seemed to run best at about 15 deg (I don't know since the scale doesn't go that high) but since my book only recommends 2-10 deg BTDC I set it at the max. Maybe I need to correlate my timing with the new ignition and wider plug gap?
Sorry this post is so long, but I'd like to get all these problems squared away once and for all. Thank you very much for any help you can provide.
Darel Matthews
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14714&Reply=14712><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>I think the plug gap is too wide. N/M</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Royce Peterson, <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>+ </blockquote> I think the plug gap is too wide. N/M -- Royce Peterson, 10/02/2002
+
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14718&Reply=14712><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>possibly, but.........</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Pete, <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>with an updated ignition system, it can handle a larger gap. The largest gap "possible" is the best as it has a better chance of creating a complete burn. Trick is, getting the gap as wide as possible, but not too wide. It would be a rather easy thing to decrease the gap to .035 and see if it helps. If not, go back to .045 when the problem is found. </blockquote> possibly, but......... -- Pete, 10/02/2002
with an updated ignition system, it can handle a larger gap. The largest gap "possible" is the best as it has a better chance of creating a complete burn. Trick is, getting the gap as wide as possible, but not too wide. It would be a rather easy thing to decrease the gap to .035 and see if it helps. If not, go back to .045 when the problem is found.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14731&Reply=14712><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: possibly, but.........</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ryan, <i>10/04/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I think the standard gap for the plugs is .o44 isn't it? I did all the same conversions on my 390 and am running the gaps to .046-.047 with great results. </blockquote> RE: possibly, but......... -- Ryan, 10/04/2002
I think the standard gap for the plugs is .o44 isn't it? I did all the same conversions on my 390 and am running the gaps to .046-.047 with great results.
 RE: possibly, but......... -- Pete, 10/04/2002
with stock parts, gap is .035. If the voltage is increased you can go wider, If the wider gap is working for you, great!!
 RE: Lots of new on 390...still some problems -- Neil, 10/02/2002
With the new ignition parts wasn't a plug gap suggested? I agree with Royce sound like your out there with that gap but I have seen somewhere that these new electronic devices can handle the gap they just work very hard. Might you have a fuel filter thats slowed by dirt. The way you descibe the start sound like lack of fuel then once started to much until the system settles down. Can't help with the tranny problem might want to put it on a rack and have someone look while shifting to see if everything is clear. You need to change the exhaust gasket over time that could affect the valve in that area. Since the motor is stock leave the timing alone set it at what your manual recomends. Hope this helps.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14719&Reply=14712><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Lots of new on 390...still some problems</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ron D., <i>10/02/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Darel:<br><br>Something just doesn't sound right, You Should notice an improvement with what you've done. I suggest that you recheck your firing order, It's too easy to get it wrong. Also, remember that the settings in the book are there to get the thing running, not necessarily running the best possible, a little change in timing, advance curve, pump shot etc., etc. can help dial in your combination. You might want to check the "play" in your timing chain too! With engine off, remove the distributor cap and turn engine over by hand until rotor moves, then reverse direction until rotor moves again. There should not be much movement, if there is a lot of movement, then it's time to replace the timing chain. JMO, Ron </blockquote> RE: Lots of new on 390...still some problems -- Ron D., 10/02/2002
Darel:

Something just doesn't sound right, You Should notice an improvement with what you've done. I suggest that you recheck your firing order, It's too easy to get it wrong. Also, remember that the settings in the book are there to get the thing running, not necessarily running the best possible, a little change in timing, advance curve, pump shot etc., etc. can help dial in your combination. You might want to check the "play" in your timing chain too! With engine off, remove the distributor cap and turn engine over by hand until rotor moves, then reverse direction until rotor moves again. There should not be much movement, if there is a lot of movement, then it's time to replace the timing chain. JMO, Ron
 Got some help... -- Darel, 10/03/2002
Thanks guys...
I got some help from another forum because this one just wouldn't load for me. The first thing I found wrong was the bracket that bolts my throttle assembly to the firewall was badly bent. This one thing alone fixed all my problems except the hard start. Turns out the pedal was only moving an inch or so (hence no power), plus the kickdown linkage wasn't parallel to the throttle linkage so it would bind between shifts, feeling like a slip. It's very powerful and shifts perfectly now!
As far as the plug gap, the .045 was recommended to me from a couple of sources, since I have all those high-energy ignition parts now. It does run smooth so I'm going to play with the timing more.
Another thing is that the ring on the crank pulley that has the timing marks has been known to slip. If I ignore the markings I can get it to run a lot nicer without pinging, although it still doesn't start as nicely as I'd like.
Thanks for your help, guys!
Darel
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14710&Reply=14710><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Cam ideas?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Greg, <i>10/01/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>  Need a direction to start looking for a cam. Block should be ready next friday.  It's a '69 390 with stock c8ae-h cylinder heads, intake is edelbrock performer 390, using a holley 600 vac sec.  Trans is c6 with factory converter, using 3:50.1 rear gears. Vehicle is '69 f100.<br>  Any ideas?<br>  Greg<br> </blockquote> Cam ideas? -- Greg, 10/01/2002
Need a direction to start looking for a cam. Block should be ready next friday. It's a '69 390 with stock c8ae-h cylinder heads, intake is edelbrock performer 390, using a holley 600 vac sec. Trans is c6 with factory converter, using 3:50.1 rear gears. Vehicle is '69 f100.
Any ideas?
Greg
  never mind n.m. -- Greg, 10/03/2002
n.m.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=14692&Reply=14692><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Part # needed</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Anthony, <i>09/30/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>'67 Mustang GT 390. I need the part # for the single pulley that mounts to the front of the harmonic that runs the power steering pump. If anyone has the # or better yet, the pulley, please let me know.<br>Thanks,<br>Anthony </blockquote> Part # needed -- Anthony, 09/30/2002
'67 Mustang GT 390. I need the part # for the single pulley that mounts to the front of the harmonic that runs the power steering pump. If anyone has the # or better yet, the pulley, please let me know.
Thanks,
Anthony
 I believe we have that part, NOS. Call or write... -- Mr F, 09/30/2002
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