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 |  hp, and the 390gt intake vs the performer rpm -- curt rising, 09/26/2002
i was trying to find out info on performance, hp, ect. betwen the 390 intake that i have on my fe 428cj, and if i were to find a 428 pi manifold( if you have one please let me know or where i can find one) and the edelbrock performer rpm. I am trying to decide what to put on my engine to give it just over 400hp. If i get the performer rpm and use it will it fit under the hood of my fairlane with no clearance problems, Thanks for your help. |
|  | RE: hp, and the 390gt intake vs the performer rpm -- Rich Lomanto, 09/26/2002
Curt, same subject, I am trying to identify my 390 and was told the s=code on my intake means "hipo" or GT.
do you know if this is true?
thx for any info.
 |
|  | RE: hp, and the 390gt intake vs the performer rpm -- Gerry Proctor, 09/26/2002
There is no statistically significant difference, other than weight (doesn't apply to the PI), between the Performer RPM and the CJ intakes. They have a different solution toward the same problem which is air flow. The CJ/PI uses large decreasing diameter runners (like the old Edelbrock F427) while the RPM uses a large plenum with constant diameter runners. While the RPM may be a more efficient design, I've never seen any indisputeable flow numbers or track testing that indicates one offers a higher level of performance over the other. Of course, you need to look at the carburetor tuning to optimize either manifold. I suppose it all comes down to whether you want to use a factory manifold or a more easy to come by aftermarket piece.
And to the question on the "S" intake. While it has marginally larger runners that the other more pedestrian FE intakes, I wouldn't exactly call it a performance piece. Sure it was used on the 390GT but it's a far cry from a CJ intake's airflow capacity. |
 | Exhaust manifolds - Gasket or no gasket? -- holliday, 09/24/2002
I have removed the exhaust manifolds from the 428 and have had them planed as much as possible, but there is some minor pitting on the tops of a few of the ports. I have had very strong recommendations from experienced people who say to use exhaust manifold gaskets and to NOT use manifold gaskets. What is the downside to using them? Should I just use some high temp copper gasket maker? I have a set of FelPro gaskets that will fit the 428 manifolds. I really want to lose the exhaust leaks and don't want to do this job again so any help is greatly appreciated in getting these manifolds to seal! |
| | It will leak miserably with Fel Pro gaskets. -- Royce Peterson, 09/25/2002
I have never used gaskets and never had a leak. Drove my 428CJ Cougar 3000 miles this summer including trips to Atlanta from Cincinnati, and return. They had no gasket from the factory and none is needed. Put a light coat of silicone sealant on the clean, dry surfaces and torque the bolts to factory specs.
The Fel Pro gaskets are a guaranteed leak.
Royce Peterson |
| | | I always use gaskets ... -- John, 09/25/2002
I always use exhaust gaskets on any engine. I don't use any sealer, and I never have any leaks. Mind you, all my other gaskets seem to leak....chuckle, but never my exhaust gaskets. One would think that in addition to helping seal the exhaust to the heads, the gaskets would also help keep heat from the manifold isolated from the heads. This might help keep that expensive engine paint on the heads from coming off. |
| | RE: Exhaust manifolds - Gasket or no gasket? -- holliday, 10/04/2002
Reassembled using the Fel Pro gaskets and some copper hi-temp gasket cement and all is well. I cannot believe the difference! Thanks again to all for your guidance. |
| Did something dumb and have even dumber question -- John, 09/23/2002
After realizing I had a blown head gasket, I failed to make the repairs right away. Now after about three weeks I removed the heads and discovered a black "bathtub-ring" in the affected cylinder bore. As the cylinder is on an angle and the water is level, the ring appears to spiral down the cylinder. I proceeded to use scotchbrite saturated with oil to remove the ring which it did. All the black is gone. BUT the surface underneath was also affected by the anti-freeze. The cylinder wall looks like it has a very fine pitting, almost like a porous appearance under the black staining. The "ring" only affected one side of the cylinder and there are only two spots that appear significant, maybe 1/8 wide and 3/8 long, one half way down the cylinder and one very near the top. I know if I put it back together, it will run fine, but will I burn enough oil to cause it to smoke? There is no depth to the ring, just a porous appearance that is faintly rough to the touch. If this block is toast without a re-bore I am faced with using a different set of pistons and my other crank which needs turning and balancing as I'll keep the pistons I have with this block with the matched crank in case I find another block only needing a 30" boring. I can just tell what the answer will be and I know I don't really want to hear it. But maybe some of you have seen this before and it wasn't a problem. Comments please. |
| | With good rings & 20W-50, I say its worth a shot.[n/m] -- Mr F, 09/23/2002
n/m |
| | RE: Did something dumb and have even dumber question -- Ron D., 09/24/2002
If you decide to try running your engine the way it is, I would suggest you buy a can of Restore at you local auto parts place. I have used it with pretty impressive results, to me, anyhow and for less than twenty bucks, you can't get hurt too bad. Good Luck. Ron |
|  | RE: Did something dumb and have even dumber question -- R Shannon, 09/24/2002
That cylinder probably needs honed to give it a chance to seal. If you can get the piston out with the motor in the car. I'd rehoned measure, clean up the piston, lap the rings. clean out the pan, at a minimum. If that don't work out, then you know it will have to bored to the max. |
| | | This kind of thing may happen fairly often. -- Dave Shoe, 09/24/2002
When buying a car which has been sitting outside for several months or years, I get the impression that a little water will have accumulated in these cylinders, whether puddled or condensed. Cylinder walls will occasionally get rusted on these parked cars, but you don't know it because the engine was never torn apart, but just started and driven instead.
I suspect that if you drive the engine as is, it'll run fine and reliably for you. There is a chance of problems (there's always a risk to taking short cuts, there are even risks when you take no short cuts), but I don't think you'll run into any. I don't believe it'll use much oil at all.
You might want to check deck and head surface flatness before reassembly.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | | RE: This kind of thing may happen fairly often. -- Bob Sprowl, 09/24/2002
I agree with Dave. Put it together if the deck is OK and drive it. |
| | | | | You wouldnt believe how bad some cylinders...... -- kevin, 09/24/2002
are and run fine. When you are done, do a leakdown test. That will tell you exactly how many % it MAY be down. |
| Exhaustmanifolds -- John, 09/23/2002
C8AE-9430-A and C8AE-9431B.
428 or 390 or?
What year?
I know C80E-** was for 428 CJ but this one...?
John |
| | RE: Exhaustmanifolds -- Barry B, 09/23/2002
I see these listed on eBay as 428PI manifolds (which they are) but they were also the bread-and-butter manifolds for the 390 and 428 full size cars from '68 - '71.
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| | | No fit...;-( -- John, 09/23/2002
And dont fit a mustang with 428/390?
John |
| | | | RE: No fit...;-( -- Barry B, 09/23/2002
Well, if the 390/428 has heads with the up-and-down 8 bolt hole pattern, the manifolds will fit, if the heads have the diagonal 14 bolt pattern, they won't fit.
But it's not over yet, the log exhaust will not fit the Mustang chassis, that's why they went to the GT style manifolds with the diagonal pattern. I remember kevin saying he got them to fit, maybe he'll chime in and elaborate. |
| | | | | You would rather have your mother in law move in.. -- kevin, 09/24/2002
than try to put them in a Mustang. While they can go in with custom pipes attached, and bolt heads ground thinner, there is no room at all, and they do hit, rattle, and cause great grief to well being. there is no reason to run them, as there are plenty of headers, and C-J manifolds out there to use. Headers on a Mustang will teach you patience. Thats how I learned mine, in the middle of the night, doing swaps all the time of everything I could. Everybody thought I blew a lot of engines, as nobody ever pulled these on and off by voluntary means. I ended up using a 3" wrench with a little creative grinding on the open end. I could remove and install a lot of different brands and styles of FE headers on my GT-500 (67) but I changed it over to manual steering 30 years ago. My record engine swap was 2 hours and 20 minutes by myself (no one has ever touched my car but me), with cross-over headers, 4-speed, drive in, drive out. Wish I could still do that, but then again, I never slept, nor had to answer to anybody. |
| | | | | | RE: You would rather have your mother in law move in.. -- John, 09/24/2002
Thanks. Would not have them in my Mustang. Just found them in an add as FE-exhaustmanifolds. Are they plentyfull/worth any?
Seller want $60,-
John |
| | | | | | | Theres millions in the scrap piles around.... -- kevin, 09/25/2002
so I wouldt get too excited if you dont need them for a truck or Galaxie. |
| What's a 1970 390 Worth? -- Rollie H., 09/23/2002
I located a 390 car engine and may buy it for a project. It is sure to need a rebuild. Didn't knock when removed, but well worn. This is an original unopened engine. It has sat for a while now. Has a C6 bolted to it and has carb,distributor all accessories, pulleys and brackets. AC compressor and power steering pump are also on it. What is a good estimate on a price for it.
Thanks |
| Knocking In A 428 CJ -- Jim, 09/22/2002
How can you tell if it is a rod or main bearing problem? Have checked timing chain, compression, no metal in oil, changed pugs. It has 10.3:1 compression. Oil pressure is 10 - 20 psi at lowest. Hyd Crane cam. Very mild low, end torque, 0-5000RPM.
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| | RE: Knocking In A 428 CJ -- EEEd, 09/22/2002
Make sure it is not a fuel pump. They will knock, especially at idle. Using a long rod or extra long screwdriver, place one end on the top of the fuel pump and the other to your ear. If the pump is knocking, you will hear it loud and clear. |
| | RE: Knocking In A 428 CJ -- John, 09/22/2002
I've had problems with both main and rod bearings where they became very worn with a drop in oil pressure and there never was any knocking. And really, it doesn't matter anyway, as if you need to change the mains, you might as well change the rod bearings too and vice vs. My brother has a big block Pontiac where a rod bearing completely dissapeared and the only sound we heard was the piston hitting the cylinder head. The fuel pump may be an issue as EEEd describes, but are you sure it's not a noise from the valve train? A loose fuel pump eccentric on the end of the cam might be the problem. A noise is never good and as D. Shoe so often recommends, a complete teardown should tell the story and the rebuild should cure the problem. |
| | What kind of knock? -- Dave Shoe, 09/22/2002
When does it knock?
What does it sound like in various situations?
Various RPMS?
Cold or warm motor?
Tinny or deep?
Under load or in neutral?
Drive or reverse?
How long has it been going on?
What work has been done on engine?
I don't expect specific answers to this short list. If you can make any remarks about the characteristics of the sound, we can maybe pinpoint it a bit further.
Shoe.
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| | | Pull the Plug wires -- John, 09/23/2002
Pull the plug wires one at a time at an idle, replacing the last one before pulling off the next. If disconnecting one of them causes the knock to stop, it's a rod bearing. If the knocking stays and souonds the same as the engine speed, it's a main. |
| | | | RE: Pull the Plug wires -- Jim, 09/23/2002
Doesn't knock at idle. Pulled number 7 plug wire at idle and it made the knock begin. I pushed on the rocker arms at idle and I could change the sound - make it stop or move. That is when I thougt there may be a gallery leaking. |
| | | RE: What kind of knock? -- Jim, 09/23/2002
What does it sound like in various situations?
Various RPMS?
- no knock at idle; anything above about 1500 RPM it is fairly steady; makes you want to back off the throttle.
Cold or warm motor?
-warm
Tinny or deep?
-deep
Under load or in neutral?
-nothing load dependant ; it'll be quiet in high gear up to about 30 mile per hour.
Drive or reverse?
-just fwd gears; haven't tried reverse.
How long has it been going on?
-after rebuild at 350 miles; driven about 10-15 miles slow to iron out after knocking began.
What work has been done on engine?
-balanced; new .030 pistons trw-l2303nf30, rings, crane cca-33-207-3, mel-2250 oil pump, dbl roller timing chain, aluminum intake, stainless steel valves, bronze valve guides, press in seats.
I've owned this car ever since new in 68. Ran it 175,000 miles. Timing chain wore out and pistons hit the valves at about 100,000 and that is a little like it sounds now. Hard to pin down. There are times it appears to be in synch with valve train.
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| | | | Something's loose,...obviously I suppose -- John, 09/23/2002
Very interesting. The fact that the knock gets worse when you disconnect a sparkplug wire indicates something loose that rattles/knocks more when the engine has a vibration such as when a plug is not firing. This doesn't sound like bearings, but I could be wrong. If it's only # 7, then I'd suspect a valvetrain problem. If touching the lifters at an idle changes the sound like you say, this sort of backs up the theorey. I would check valve clearance(to check lifter adj) and lift (to check cam lobes) starting with # 7. Compare it to another cylinder if you're not sure of the specs. Are you sure it's not a tapping sound from lifters or valves vs a knock from deep inside the engine? Also, I've had no experience with Stainless Steel valves, but I did have a problem once that sounded like yours. With the SS valves you must certainly have had valve seats installed in the head. I had an insert fall out (partially) on a Datsun engine once that made a pretty terrible "knocking' sound. If the Machine Shop just put in the inserts, I wonder if one loosened and dropped out a tad. |
| | | | | RE: Something's loose,...obviously I suppose -- Ron D., 09/24/2002
If John is right about a valve seat dropping, then a compression check sould tell you what cylinder is affected. I overheated my 73 Jaguar XKE roadster years ago and dropped Five valve seats in its' V-12, nasty noises. |
| | RE: Knocking In A 428 CJ -- Doug, 09/24/2002
Unfortunatly the knock can be somthing that has not been discused before,wrist pin knock. This is what happens when the wrist pin keeper breaks or some how becomes loose causing the wrist pin to slide out of the piston and come in contact with the cylinder wall this will make a knocking noise . Agian the best thing you can do now is to take the motor down before what is causing the knock does more damage.
Doug |
| | RE: Knocking In A 428 CJ -- Mike, 09/24/2002
I used to have knocking at start up on a 428 CJ after a couple years use and would have to drop the pan to change rod bearings. That's probably the weakest area of the FE engine and why many people have their cranks redone to the wider Chevy rod bearing size (and smaller dia)........ |
| Cobrajet shaker base question -- Tim, 09/21/2002
I purchased a shaker for my cobrajet and I'm not sure if my base is correct. When I put the base over the carb, the 'float screws?' stick up too high and the base won't sit all the way down on the carb. I've noticed on other bases that there are two indentations (front and rear). Mine only has an indentation on the rear. Do my screws stick up too high? Could someone check under their base for these indentations (humps) and also check if their screws are flat on top of the bowls or if they stick up? Thanks for any help.
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| How can I tell if my engine's been modified? -- Darel, 09/21/2002
I have a '61 T-Bird with a '66 Merc engine (390 probably). I'm pulling a steady 15 lbs. of vacuum. Everything I've seen said this should be more like 17-20. Other than a compression test (which I'll get around to eventually) how can I tell if someone's put a little bit of a cam in here, dropping the vacuum, before I start looking at a rebuild? I will do a compression check shortly, but for now I'm just wondering if there's anything else I can check. I'd really rather not pull the cam.
Darel |
| | Late cam or igntion timing -- mutangoldtimer, 09/21/2002
I would check the timing chain., if the engine was modifed, it most likely would have been updated.If it looks orginal and worn out, you may have found your problem.May sound like big job, but not really. |
| | RE: How can I tell if my engine's been modified? -- John, 09/21/2002
I wouldn't worry about it if the engine is running fine, but you can check the valve lift with a magnetic dial indicator and compare it to factory specs for valve lift. I only get about 15 with my 428. It does have a fairly mild Crane cam, but at a little over 0.5" of lift, it would be obvious if checked the way I stated. |
| | | RE: How can I tell if my engine's been modified? -- Darel, 09/22/2002
Thanks guys. I just found in my book where it may be lower due to high altitude, which I am at here in MT. I'm not too worried about the engine I was just curious. Thanks for the info.
Darel |
| 390 GT heads -- Don, 09/20/2002
Is there actually any difference in the 66 390GT heads and any other basic 390 head of the same era except the exhaust bolt holes?I used to play with my 66 gt way back when and didn't notice a difference in any of the basic heads I found.I did have a 352 with taller intake ports than the rest but the 390 just looked like the garden variety head. |
| | No difference except in the valvetrain. -- Dave Shoe, 09/21/2002
The heads are the same between full size and Fairlane. Could be any of several casting numbers, all casting numbers start with C6AE.
The C6AE-R is sought after for the best horsepower because it's the only one which kept the large runners of the 1958-65 era, great for high winding and high cubes. C6AE-J, -L, -U are all of similar design, and I'm forgetting one or two other numbers of similar heads which have been spotted in 1966 cars. Any FE head will make easy power up to about 400 if the proper components are selected. The small runner "velocity" heads may even offer some performance benefits when used in smaller displacement FEs, as these were apparently flow benched a bunch before the design was released.
The GT head got different valve springs, performance (non-rotating) retainers, compatible locks, and valves with grooves compatible with the locks. California GTs from '66-'67 got thermactor emissions ports drilled, all 390GTs got thermactor in 1968, and there was no 390GT in 1969.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| 428cj -- MIKE SHAW, 09/20/2002
need to find out what year my engine is block #C6ME-A
THE ONLY OTHER # ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OIL FILTER ADAPTER NEAR THE OIL PAN IT IS 6C7 |
| | Not an original CJ block. The casting date is... -- Dan Davis, 09/20/2002
March 7, 1966.
Regards,
Dan |
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