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| For your viewing pleasure.... -- Mike McQuesten, 05/24/2002
Stopped by Dick Flynn's shop today to see how he's doing with the 358" Bonneville SOHC. He's doing a tear down & freshening in preparation for an up-coming dyno test analysis. He's getting ready for another trip to Bonneville in August.
Again, these SOHC heads are his total work. He still has the original iron heads with a little damage done to one combustion chamber.
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| | Re: #2, 5/24/02 -- Mike McQuesten, 05/24/2002
Here's #2:
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| | | RE: that was an NOS hook-up. -- Mike McQuesten, 05/24/2002
That fixture in the middle of the valley plate is a hook-up for Nitrous Oxide. The induction system is Hilborn.
Here's the last one for today. A little bottom end shot. The rods are Dick's creation too. I'll shoot those next week.
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| | | | Awesome inventiveness. -- Dave Shoe, 05/24/2002
Thanks for the photos. It's great to see that experimentation on the FE is as hot as ever.
Shoe. |
| | | | | I second that....great photos & engineering -- P, 05/30/2002
thx for sharing those with us, P |
| | | | RE: that was an NOS hook-up. -- John Saxon, 05/27/2002
Hey Mike if you want some really good shots of the rods he has another set in the big metal cabinet next to the milling machine next to the wall. |
| | | | | Did he do this with CAD/CAM? -- Walker, 05/27/2002
If so, are the programs for loan? rent? |
| | | | | | RE: Did he do this with CAD/CAM? -- Mike McQuesten, 05/28/2002
Great question Walker! I'll ask him this week although I have a hunch what is answer may be....yes, he did use a CAD program of course. It's cool to see his computer's mouse.....just another greasy tool. When I went by the other day that's what Dick was doing. Just working on computer aided design for some unique part he is expected to turn out every once in awhile. He is a very nice guy. Can't say enough good about him as a man and an awesome inventor. |
| | | | | | | I smell both CAD and CAM in this engine. -- Dave Shoe, 05/28/2002
I'm sure Dick is using a CAD package for modeling up the ideas, and a CAM package for automatically generating the tooling cutter paths.
Renting either of these packages tends to be a bit less practical than you might think, because they take so long to learn, and the rental periods would tend to require a heap of training time. Generally way expensive and not practical.
Shoe |
| | | | | | | | I know CAM; I seem to learn software quickly -- Walker, 05/28/2002
...so I don't see this as a big hurdle.
Be nice to have, be willing to sign any liability-waiver he'd want me to.
Or, maybe now that he's got it on disk, maybe he'll tool off another set?
New topic, sort-of...aluminum MOPAR Hemi heads have a bad rep for cracking, may be due to the rockers...any problems with AL SOHC heads? |
| | | | | RE: that was an NOS hook-up. -- Mike McQuesten, 05/28/2002
You're right John, I was standing just a few feet from them. I asked Dick why he didn't make two full sets. He only had material to make 14.
I'll go by on my way home this week and get a pic or two of those custom Flynn Rods.
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| | RE: For your viewing pleasure.... -- FE427TP, 05/29/2002
doesn't he have a website? I was just thinking about a post either in a add of his on E-bay or on some forum that sounded like someone was making new SOHC heads but couldn't remember where this morning. |
| | | RE: website? -- Mike McQuesten, 05/30/2002
I don't think he does. These heads are probably going to be the one set he makes. There are others in this area who have suggested to him to consider limited production. Dick just laughs. He's been in a number of business business ventures. Classic case of 'been there.......'. I think he is enjoying what he is doing at his pace. He and his Bonneville partner want to get some consistent runs in on the flats. That's his concern now. Do it with an FE at just 358".
My 391 block has been sitting right next to his work bench for many months waiting for its conversion to 427 cross bolts and oil passage improvements. I don't care as long as Dick does it.
Maybe I can talk him into modifying my 391 to accept the original cammer heads. Now that hunk of FE would look good in a '60 Sunliner. I guess an FE cammer looks good in anything doesn't it? |
| I would rather be a 427 hugger, than a tree hugger -- P, 05/24/2002
Looks like I'm going to be spending some quality time hugging some 427's.
I am embarking on a journey tomorrow to pick up two 427 marine engines taken from a large yacht on the east coast when the guy decided he wanted diesel.
The engines have heat exchangers and closed cooling, so antifreeze is the only thing that has come in contact with the internal cylinder walls. I do most all of my own work, when I am able to, so I will remember your comment about contacting the car clubs in the future. Good tip for the FE boating guys.
I plan to go over each engine in the garage, flip em and check the bearings, etc., and then put em back in a boat here in Nashville. I don't think they will need much, as the guy said they were rebuilt around 200 hours prior to him getting bitten by the diesel bug.
Of course, you never know what you are buying until later, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.
I will be posting photos and will no doubt, be calling for help for myself, later when I get the load back here in Tennessee.
Regards, P |
| | RE: I would rather be a 427 hugger, than a tree hugger -- Bob H., 05/24/2002
Where up here on east coast? |
| | | Maryland/ DCarea -- P, 05/24/2002
Washington, DC area.
Yup, guys, I have a one-way airline ticket and I'm renting a van when I get there, and I'm toting a box full of tools, so you can rest assured, I will be detected, inspected, and hopefully not rejected, or neglected, as it is a "whole different set of rules" when you are flying into the DC area these days.
I called security and advised them of what I would be carrying, and they said not to even THINK about bringing any of that stuff on a carry on bag. I will also be bringing the MOTHER of all come-alongs with me, ha ha.
I always tell the flight attendents in a nice and quiet way, that if you need any assistance, please call on me. They always really seem to appreciate it. I am a platinum AA flyer these days, and have a gazillion miles, so I know the routine pretty well by now. I always also say "thank you guys", to the military personnel who are guarding our airports, and they also really seem to appreciate the fact that someone cares enough to thank them for what they are doing. I am so proud of those guys, they all look so professional, and they are doing a serious job.
I'm looking at it as a recreational road trip. Will send photos when I get back.
P |
| | | | Wait a week and hit the Ford Nationals -- Lou, 05/24/2002
on the way back. |
| | | | | RE: Wait and hit the Ford Nationals -- P, 05/24/2002
You know, I would absolutely LOVE to do that, but if I did, the engines would be gone. Some guy already tried to preempt the deal, but the seller was kind enough to honor the deal we had discussed, even though he started thinking he could have charged more for the motors, etc.
Thankfully there are still some good guys out there who will do what they say they will do, and not just run for the highest dollar and step on a lot of people along the way, etc.
P
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| | | | | | RE: Wait and hit the Ford Nationals -- Tom, 05/25/2002
man your so lucky there no No Boats out here or Water and there are almost NO old FOrds left so i have to hunt elesewhere for 427's mind if i ask how muhc you getting them for? |
| muscle car shoot out at norwalk,oh.,anybody goin? -- dale, 05/23/2002
it would be nice to see some nice fe's out there this sat and sunday raceing against the other brands. |
| Rocker arm end support shafts -- Boydster, 05/22/2002
Heard FPP has them. Does anyone know who else offers them? '67 410 W/Edelbrock perf. RPM setup, Shoe says I need them or I'll have a "story" to tell. I trust Shoe. Thanks. |
| | RE: Rocker Arm Specialist -- Mike McQuesten, 05/23/2002
Check out www.rockerarms.com
You might find all that you need right there. |
| | | RE: Rocker Arm Specialist -- Rob, 05/23/2002
Go to www.dscmotorsport.com they have the DOVE end support stands, their around 140 for the set
Rob |
| | | | RE: Rocker Arm Specialist -- John, 05/23/2002
I don't know if Total Performance is still in business, but they have them also. Good ones too from what I rememeber |
| | | | | Yup, Total Performance is still up and running. -- Dave Shoe, 05/23/2002
John Vermeersch of Total Performance has posted a couple times to the FE forums. Like many FE houses, they don't have a website, but their phone works fine.
Shoe. |
| | | | | | RE: John Vermeersch -- Mike McQuesten, 05/24/2002
is a fine guy to deal with. Many years ago he helped me with a project (351W in '64 Fairlane) and his communication/advice proved invaluable.
Just a note...please don't ask me for advice on installing a 351W in a '62-'65 Fairlane. I'd never do it again!
One final note on John, he has one tremendous '61 Starliner powered by a Cammer backed by a C-6. |
| | | | | | | RE: John Vermeersch's Wagon -- SDP, 05/25/2002
John has a cool 61 Wagon as well, with none other than a Cammer in it also. It was nice clean black "Country Sedan" that he used to pull his "Cammer" powererd V-Drive boat around with. I have seen the orange 61 Starliner in person and its a very nice car. The car looks tame until the headers get noticed from the front veiw! |
| | | | | | | | RE: John Vermeersch's Wagon -- Mike McQuesten, 05/25/2002
You're totally correct about his wagon too Steve. I've seen the wagon in person while on a visit to John's shop in Mt. Clemens Mich. At the time, 1994, he was driving the Country Squire '61 with the original 352. It was a low mileage original car. I didn't know he'd installed a cammer in it too. Lucky guys with Cammers. I asked my friend Dick Flynn what he's going to do with his set of originals. He just smiles and says a few others have asked him that too. No definitive answer....yet. |
| | | RE: Rocker Arm Specialist -- bear, 05/28/2002
does anyone have a number for total performance
thanks bear |
| Need help finding a good FE shop in Ft. Lauderdale -- P, 05/22/2002
Hi guys,
I’m trying to help a friend find a reputable Ford FE shop in the Ft. Lauderdale area. Yeah, I know this might be impossible in Ft. Lauderdale, as this is muscleboat territory, and it seems like they go through a lot of engines down there, and they burn em up quick too, so there may not be too many guys down there who are familiar with the old Fords.
I have a friend who needs to have a 427 sideoiler rebuilt, and he has been given the song and dance to the extent that I know someone is trying to screw him out of the engine, etc. Any references for the Ft. Lauderdale area would be appreciated, as I will send them along to him. He wants to do a stock rebuild.
Thanks in advance,
P
(time to crawl back under my rock, all this exposure is frightening.) |
| | | RE: Have you tried asking local car clubs? -- P, 05/24/2002
No I have not, but this is a great idea and I will pass it along to my friend in Ft. Lauderdale.
regards, P |
| Tune up specs -- Anthony, 05/22/2002
What are the specs for the following on a stock '67 390 in a Mustang:
Point gap Dwell Timing Plug gap Best spark plug for the application
Thanks! |
| | Would that be with Thermactor system or without? [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/22/2002
n/m |
| | | Without thermactor -- Anthony, 05/22/2002
n/m |
| | 0.017"; 27°-31°; 12°BTDC; 0.034"; BF-32 [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/22/2002
n/m |
| Help! low oil pressure on fresh motor -- Matt, 05/21/2002
I just finished going thru my 428 for the second time, it runs good, but the oil pressure at idle is 20 psi, it comes up with the RPM's but I'm still concerned. I bought the longblock 2 years ago, it's a C6ME ('66 police Interceptor). I took the longblock apart, added CJ heads, etc. The old cam I pulled out was hydraulic, so common sense told me to put in a new hydraulic. After the engine was finished it ran good, except the lifters weren't getting oil. After much frustration, pulled the motor back apart to discover that the oil passages that run vertically to the lifter gallies had been blocked with short pieces of rod. The machine shop drilled them out, they appeared to be about 3/8-1/2" in diameterThe machine shop told me that I shouldn't have any more oiling problems. I put the engine back together using a Melling high volume oil pump, Rhodes lifters, new bearings (clearance 0.0015). I also put oil restrictors under the rocker shafts (0.092 I think, whatever the book said). I also had the machine shop put in screw in galley plugs. I started the engine tonight, 20 psi oil pressure. I took off a valve cover, the top side seems to be getting oil O.K. Any ideas? When they took out the plugs in the galleys, are the passages too big now? (I had 45 psi the first time around). Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matt |
| | RE: Help! low oil pressure on fresh motor -- Jonathan, 05/22/2002
I have built a 390. It barely ran 20 psi at an idle. I also have an old 360 in my truck. After many miles, it still barely runs 20 psi. Looking at my chiltons, the book said that I was OK as long as the psi jumped as rpm's went up. I would not be concerned unless you have a high volume pump. |
| Timing advance -- Joel, 05/21/2002
I have a stock 428cj/auto with a dual diaphragm advance unit. I've set the initial timing at 8 degrees BTDC. I set this at about 550 rpm in hopes of eliminating mechanical advance factor. That is about all the initial timing I can have before it will ping on a heavy load road test. I read else where that the vacuum advance unit should have a lot of vacuum at no load thus advancing the timing, and have no vacuum draw at WOT thus eliminating the vacuum advance. The advance portion of my advance unit is connected to a port on the thermostat housing. It has a vacuum draw when the motor is cold, but then drops to zero when the engine is warm. When I rev the throttle in the driveway with zero load, it has some vacuum draw, but then drops back to zero at idle. Is this correct? With the vacuum lines disconnected and plugged, I have about 30 degrees advance by 2500 rpm. I'm not sure if this is the total initial and mechanical advance because my timing light flickers out at about that speed. |
| | That sounds correct based on my limited experience -- SkipC, 05/23/2002
I have a friend with a '70 428CJ/Auto that I have the "honor" of working on time to time. His will knock badly on 93 octane gas. He mixes some race gas in with each tank. The CJ compression is too high for modern gas. Things you might try: Combustion chamber cleaner Retard timing (watch for overheating) Run mixture a little rich (re-jet) Cooler thermostat However, all are band-aids for the high compression :( |
| | More to the point, Joel... -- Gerry Proctor, 05/24/2002
There are two sources for vacuum advance. 1-Ported vacuum and; 2-Manifold vacuum.
Ported vacuum is a tap below the carburetor's venturi and above the throttle blades. Vacuum here is nil at idle and inreases with throttle opening and diminishes with load. In other words, no vacuum advance at idle, a lot of vacuum advance under light cruise load, and little to no vacuum advance under engine load.
Manifold vacuum advance is a tap below the throttle blades and responds directly to manifold pressure...It rises and falls as does manifold pressure.
The factory used ported vacuum and in your particular case, thermostatically controlled ported vacuum. In almost all cases, it's best to leave the vacuum source as ported vacuum.
But it gets more complex since vacuum advance is only one of the three timing components. You have your initial, your centrifugal, and your vacuum advance. All three of these timing advance elements work together with the intent of giving you the highest cylinder pressure possible consistent with the engine design and available fuel. Well, the fuel that your engine was designed to run on is not readily available anymore so you're going to have to make some adjustments to reduce cylinder pressure. You do that through mechanical modification like cam and/or pistons or by tuning your advance.
You want to run as much initial advance as possible and work on your centrifugal and vacuum advance tuning. In almost all cases, the only difference in a factory performance distributor and the one they put in a station wagon is in the centrifugal advance curve. In the day your engine was made, you had a lot of centrifugal advance that came in very early in the rpm curve. The wagon's distributor had less centrifugal and it came in at higher rpm. In many cases, the wagon had nothing until over 2,000 rpm and full centrifugal advance at well over 4,000 rpm. Most vacuum advance cans contribute from 15 to 20 degrees of advance but isn't referenced in the total advance you often see written in car magazines. The only way you're going to understand what your centrifugal advance is doing is to have a fully-degreed balancer or use a dial-back timing light. If you feel comfortable enough with removing and disassembling the distributor, you can tune your centrifugal advance yourself, otherwise you'll need the help of a professional tuner. Essentially you want to slow down the centrifual advance and in many cases, limit it as well. Remember, you want as much initial advance as you can run so if your optimal advance curve puts your total advance at 36-degrees and you're running 12-degrees initial, your centrifugal limit is 24-degrees. Vacuum advance is, again, not part of the picture.
You can tune your advance curve to accomodate your engine on today's fuels, but it will not perform up to factory power figures. The ultimate solution is to use lower compression pistons, update the cam, and tune your advance curve. You'll produce way more power with a complete package, but that's not always practical. |
| | | RE: More to the point, Joel... -- Joel, 05/24/2002
Thank you for the wonderful post. I think I understand it a little better now. I've heard others say that they recurved their distributors and it really woke up their motor. My car just seems a little lazy in the midrange. When I cruise at 30mph and step on it to 3/4 throttle, it kind of dogs a little. If I mash it to the floor, the tranny shifts down and it goes like crazy. I realize that with 3.25 gears, an auto trans, and a 2 ton car it was never meant to be an all-out performance machine. When I adjusted the initial to find the max before pre-ignition, it didn't really do that much one way or another to performance. At least for a 0-60mph road test. I've heard that fine tuned timing can matter as much as 30HP on a chassis dyno. I figure with a tired 428cj/auto I'd probably only see 200HP rear wheel anyway. I was also wondering about timing chain slack. I moved my crank back and forth to check it, I could get maybe 5 degrees crank rotation before the distributor rotor would move. Not sure if that's within tolerance of not |
| | | | Keep in mind... -- Dave Shoe, 05/24/2002
...that crankshaft degrees are not the same as distributor degrees.
When dealing with a timing light being shone on a damper, you are looking at crankshaft degrees.
Distributor or "curve" degrees are based on the rotation of the distributor. Since one rotation of the distributor equals two rotations of the crankshaft, it's important to differentiate between the two.
To be sure, I could never figure out how to get the numbers to make mathematical sense until I had this epiphany about a year ago.
Shoe. |
| | | | RE: More to the point, Joel... -- Gerry Proctor, 05/24/2002
Probably well within acceptable tolerance, Joel. You'll have some slack in the mesh of both the cam chain and the distributor drive gear. It's also a little difficult to get an accurate picture of this without precision measurement tools like a dial indicator and degree wheel. If you have a high-mileage engine, it is always better to replace the timing chain assembly while the car is in your garage and at your convenience. You'll not spend more than $100.00 even with the most expensive Cloyes True Roller set and it shouldn't take more than a brief afternoon. This takes retarded cam timing completely out of the performance question. |
| | | | | RE: More to the point, Joel... -- salid, 05/24/2002
if your engine has the original nylon toothed timing set, CHANGE IT NOW. It is only a matter of time before it will come apart and make a nylon mess in your engine. A partially disintegrated gear will also add to the slack. Drain your oil into a screened receptacle and see if there are any little white nylon chards. If there are, they came from the gear. Of cource, I only know this from personal experience. A failed timing set is one of the most common reasons for dead FE engines in this area (relatively cold winters which nylon doesn't like). The death is usually preceded by a mysterious loss of oil presure as the little nylon chards plug the screen in the oil pickup. Then that funny clucking sound as one of the connecting rod bearings goes south and takes the crank with it. I'm not trying to scare you, but this is something I would give attention to anytime you start having strange timing issues on a "mature" FE. |
| | | I dissagree but thenI'm a dissagreable old F*#@ -- Bob H., 05/24/2002
Ported vavumn is only needed foe emissionsthat is why they the factorys came up with it in late 60's so engines could pass idle emmissions. MY $0.02 if you go to trouble of finding what engine likes with advance curve and total advance,why would you want to add more advance with ported vacumnas engine speed goes up ported vacumn will rise and add advance. A high proformance engine needs manafold vavumn at idle,then when you floor it the engine will only receive the advance you set into the dist + static inital advance, under light load as you cruse down the road vacumn advance add to this and helps fuel milage |
| | RE: Timing advance -- Joel, 05/27/2002
I pulled the distributor apart because I wanted to see which weights were installed before I made my next move. It has a 15l and a 10l. Would that mean that the mechanical advance would account for 25 degrees? Would it be beneficial to put two 10l's in so I could run more initial before pre-detonation? Again, original, un-rebuilt CJ. I run straight 92 octane because I think that octane boosts are a waist of money. I would blend with race gas, but that's horribly inconvientient. I know I'll have to back the timing down to eliminate pinging. |
| Clearance for forged pistons?!? -- Josh, 05/21/2002
What should the clearance inside the cylinder be for forged pistons .005 to .008? Thanks. Trying to determine if the hone job on my block has yeilded useless forged pistons or not! I am around .006 to .007 after honing! Thanks as always.
Josh |
| | What brand and engine..... -- kevin, 05/21/2002
and what is it used for? |
| | | TRW 60 over for 427 -- Josh, 05/22/2002
early 1970s stroker TRW 60 over for 427. Building a street motor, not a strip motor. |
| | RE: Clearance for forged pistons?!? -- John, 05/21/2002
Well...all the old specs for forged pistons for "performance" engines are in the ball park of what you've found, however it is imperative to go with what the piston manufacturer reccomends. My TRW forged pistons call for only 0.0015 " clearance, but if you read the fine print, it says to allow an additional 0.001" for high performance applications. So, that would be 0.0025" That goes against any Ford spec I ever saw for forged pistons. Now, most machine shops actually bore/hone to the nominal size. For example, a 4" piston that's for a 0.010 overbore is enlarged to 4.010 and the clearance is whatever you get when you measure it after the work is done. Also, used pistons measure loose as the piston skirts get banged up and "bent in" a bit after they are intially used, so an additional thou of clearance is normal when you measure them. I'd say your clearances would be fine for a high rpm strip motor with original forged pistons, but a little loose on the street. |
| | | Are these the ...... -- kevin, 05/22/2002
L2298 stroker pistons (undulated skirt). Or are they flat top L2205's (full skirt) that have been trimmed on top? It does make a difference. |
| NOS motor -- tbolt, 05/21/2002
i came across an original (new) 1970) 390 ford replacement motor. any tips for checking out the condition of a 30 year old ( new ) motor |
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