Skip Navigation Links.
| 69 Mach1 R 428 correct engine color -- BK, 12/20/2003
I'm am restoring a 69 Mach1 R-code and am trying to determine the correct engine color. I visited the 428 CJ registry and they have pictures of a 428 that appears to match the Duplicolor 1601 color. I contacted Duplicolor and they indicate that is is the correct color for 1965 -1973 Ford engines. It appears to be a lighter blue than a lot of engines I have seen painted. Can anyone confirm that this is the correct color or point me in the right direction.
Thanks!
BK |
| | Ditzler/PPG is the OEM paint. -- Dave Shoe, 12/20/2003
I've never come close to matching FE paint using a spray can. Once, after getting fed up with never NEVER finding the rich shade I sought, I went out and searched out over a dozen cans of Ford medium blue paint. Even after buying a telephone-guaranteed correct can of "Ford Medium Blue" spray paint from National Parts Depot I was disappointed. I rejected the NPD paint because it hade same label and can markings as one I'd just bought locally which failed the test, but NPDs paint guarantee is self-expiring upon delivery. Even if the can was never opened you get the standard "how did you know it's the wrong color" grilling over the phone, with the insinuation that you're trying to return a can uf used paint. I've not gone back to NPD since they inappropriately chewed me out.
It seems there are maybe three standard shades of blue spray paint commercially available and each color is relabeled and used for any car company that uses a "similar" blue.
It's probably best if you rename any "Ford blue" spray can labels to "generic blue" or "DeSoto blue" just so you get the right impression.
Spray paint companies want to sell cans of cheap paint, not cans of color matched paint. Cheap paint is what keeps spray can companies in business. Spray paint also has issues with sticking to the engine and dealing with oil.
PPG is the company that made the original Ford paint, and today Ditzler/PPG is the company to go to for a can of paint. It'll need to be applied with a sprayer, but the color is the one you seek.
Next step is to determine the exact shade. SuperFord magazine listed the proper formulations (one at a time) in various articles, but I don't have speedy access to those magazines right now. Possibly a forum search for the term "Ditzler" might turn something up. Maybe Mr. F knows the Ditzler details. Most likely, Ditzler/PPG sales reps may be able to help you find the color, though you shouldn't be surprised if a PPG paint rep doesn't quite understand the needs of a 40 year old car.
Good luck with the search.
Shoe. |
| | | RE: See if this old response helps, a bit... -- BK, 12/21/2003
Thanks for the help!
BK |
| | RE: 69 Mach1 R 428 correct engine color -- Geoff McNew, 12/22/2003
I use Napa's Ford Blue #627 Engine Paint, seems to match perfectly. Plus, when you've got people like Barrett Jackson selling R-code Mach's with the totally incorrect shaker assembly as "certified true and correct SCJ engine", what's in a shade of blue.
Check this out, punch on the underhood photo...what's wrong with this picture?!
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=172855
|
| | | Not enough hours in the day to critique that photo. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 12/22/2003
n/m |
| | | | RE: Not enough hours in the day to critique that photo. ;-) [n/m] -- Geoff McNew, 12/23/2003
...check out the air cleaner base & lid...lots'a blue tin going on...and the vent line goes around back too...all the more "certified"! so's the intake manifold!...it all comes together with the big "S" grease pencil on the driver side head. Man, oh man, I can't wait to hit this Jan's B-J to spend some hard-earned dough! |
| | | RE: 69 Mach1 R 428 correct engine color -- JKH, 12/22/2003
Not to mention,possibly wrong carpet,wrong shifter handle,tires and wheels,front and rear spoilers,and rear window slats.Paint looks wrong on the hood but have to see in a better light if flat..It dont have air,so it could be right on that point....I'll let you guys have under the hood.I got to go eat now..I dont have time..like Mr F says,,,not enough hours in a day Joe |
| | | | Is this a "what not to do engine bay" : ( n/m -- pop428, 12/23/2003
n/m |
| 1970 ford ltd 390 -- Glenucci, 12/19/2003
I'm trying to resurrect this car that sat idle for thirteen years. First problem was siezed intake valves that we blamed on bad gas. Cleaned up the heads but now it won't run for more than ten minutes without sounding like it's tightening up and stalling. Cooling system and fuel system are ok. Now, I'm wondering about the oil system. If I don't want to trust the idiot lite, is there another way to check the oil pressure? Thanks. |
| | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- Martin Micheelsen, 12/19/2003
You can buy and temporarily install a mechanical oil pressure gage. They are fairly inexpensive. |
| | | If the lifters aren't clattering... -- Dave Shoe, 12/19/2003
...then you've likely got sufficient oil pressure for reliable idling and easy cruising that won't tend to cause the engine to stall. When the pressure plummets to near zero, all the lifters start clattering within a second or so.
I'm not suggesting it's OK to drive an FE with low oil pressure, only that your symptoms don't directly point to an oil problem. I suspect fuel restriction issues somewhere between the gas tank and the fuel bowl.
Shoe. |
| | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- rhunt, 12/20/2003
Remove the gas cap and try it again. The gas tank could have a vacuum building up in it if the vents to the tank aren't letting air into the tank while the car is running. A car that has sat that long will no doubt have a major mess in the gas tank and will clog everything up for a while until it all gets flushed out. |
| | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- Gary XL, 10/24/2004
My 64 Galaxie sat for almost 20 years, adn the biggest problems I have are a pinholed gas tank adn fuel line hose sections that have sucked closed and will not pass any fuel. I believe this may be your main problem, as they would allow fuel to flow until the demand goes up then crimp themselves shut. Disconnect the fuel line at the fuel pump, run a lenght of rubber hose out to a point where you can put an electric fuel pump and a gas can and try running it on that. The real fix is to drop the fuel tank, drain adn flush it, and replace all the rubber hose sections with new hose. Change the fuel filter at the carb (or inline). Also change the filter on the fuel pump, if so equiped. |
| | | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- Glenucci, 10/24/2004
That's just about what we did; used POR 15 treatment on the tank. Runs great now. Thanks. |
| | | | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- GaryXL, 10/25/2004
How hard was the POR 15 treatment? Any suggestions or recomendations? I am planning to use it on my tank when I get back from the other side of the world in January. |
| | | | | RE: 1970 ford ltd 390 -- Glenucci, 10/25/2004
It was easy to use; I'm a stickler for following manufacturer's instructions, so that's what I did. Worked fine; very satisfied. Had to replace the float for the fuel gauge sending unit; $12 for a little plastic barrel! Ouch. |
| Crankshaft interchangeability -- Jeff, 12/17/2003
Hello, Newbie here and to FE's. I have gotten my hands on a 427 s/o (bare block with bearing caps) along with a factory 2 x 4 alum. intake with carbs, linkage, logs and air cleaner. I am currently having the block inspected by a local reputable speed shop. My question to the forum is will a 390 crank work in this block. I intend to put it in a Cobra I am building. I would like to get approx. 500 hp. Car will be mainly street driven, occasional trip to Road America. Need guidance on best way to go for a rotating set up. Sorry for being so long winded. Any help is much appreciated. Jeff |
| | RE: Crankshaft interchangeability -- giacamo, 12/17/2003
a 390 cast crank will work fine for most aps up to 500 hp in a 427. i try to leave the hi priced forged cranks for all out racing aps . one of my faverite 390 cranks is the standerd 2u series later 1960,s cranks i have found theas cranks to be machined near perfect and most of the time ballance to be perfect or very close to perfect. some one at ford had thear s,, together on them.so i feal the 390 cast crank to tuffer then most think.and not a searious draw back....... |
| | | All FE cast cranks use the same nodular iron. -- Dave Shoe, 12/18/2003
The 427 cast iron crank used in 1963 and early 1964 NASCAR racing was cast from the same exact alloy as every other FE cast iron crankshaft. The 390 is only different in the balance specification.
Magnaflux the crank, make sure the fillets are sufficient to prevent stress risers (standard concerns for all cast cranks), and race away.
Ford invented the cast nodular crank back in 1951. Nodular iron was invented back in 1947, but Ford tweaked the alloy until the friction bearing surfaces were just right. Crankshaft-grade cast iron is always just about the same, a pearlite-dominant alloy with about an 80KPSI tensile, 60-65KPSI yeild, and 3-10KPSI elongation spec, depending on the specific grade selected.
There is no such thing as a gray iron crankshaft. They just aren't strong enough.
Since iron contains roughly 15% carbon by volume (4% by weight), it also weighs about 10% less than forged steel, making it a favorite among top drag racers and road racers who wish to shave pounds to gain competitive advantage without resorting to super-expensively machined lightweight steel cranks.
The carbon in cast iron also makes it about 10% easier to flex than steel, but this is quite nominal, as titanium flexes about 90% more than steel and aluminum flexes about 240% more than steel for a given loading. HArdening has no effect on flex modulus, so don't be fooled by advertising that suggests otherwise. Hardening principally improves wear resistance, but secondarily can sometimes improve tensile strength at the cost of losing fatigue resistance.
One thing to consider is you must inspect cast iron cranks more often than steel, as nodular iron does fatigue a bit more quickly. Basically, steel doesn't fatigue much at all in these applications, but nodular iron can start to develop cracks over useage, particularly if fillets aren't properly prepared. Having said this, we're comparing the values of gold and platinum, and both are great crankshaft materials.
Not also that all modern cranks advertised as "cast steel" are really nodular iron. It's a bit unscrupulous, but the aftermarket manufacturers are mainly interested in making their cranks sound better, so they can sell more while pumping the price.
Have fun. The 390 crank is actually stiffer and stronger than the 428 crank, since it's got more overlap at the throws. It's perfect for a Cobra car that is properly maintained and inspected.
JMO, Shoe. |
| cyl heads -- russ, 12/17/2003
is edlebrock alum. only heads for a 390 ? will i loose to much comp. going from 67 cc heads to 72cc. and are hookers only headers for 390 66 fairlane thanks for any help. |
| | RE: cyl heads -- Gerry Proctor, 12/18/2003
No, Russ, Edelbrock is just the most AVAILABLE FE aluminum head. Dove also makes FE heads but whether you can get them is another question. There is also the option of using factory 428 CJ heads.
You have many issues in the balance. First, due to their thermal efficiency, aluminum heads pull heat more easily out of the combustion chamber. This has two effects: 1) They are less detonation prone than iron heads using the same compression ratio, and; 2) The produce less power than iron heads with the same compression since the heat energy that could be used to push down on the piston is being transferred to the coolant.
So, theoretically, you'd be looking at a horsepower loss with the slight reduction in compression and the loss of heat energy with aluminum.
But it's not quite that simple -and it never is. What you loose in thermal energy from both the compression and material you gain in airflow. Power is always in the heads and the Edelbrocks are far superior to the factory iron 390 heads. And the power gain is pretty much across the rpm range. The engine won't make power beyond where it does right now, as in increasing your redline, but they will punch it up -particularly in the midrange.
Hookers do fit the Edelbrocks quite well as they are the 16-bolt Cobra Jet flange pattern and port location. If you keep your factory C6AE-R heads, then you'll want to look to the FPA headers. |
| | | Compression ratio, Edelbrock head -- P, 12/22/2003
Hi guys, I have to weigh in on this one.
I have a friend who had a 400-hp 390 as offered by Eaton Dearborn Marine in a Higgins speedboat. It was obviously a high performance 390, with "good" heads.
He wanted to make it go faster and got the aluminum Edelbrocks. Guess what? The boat went faster with the iron Ford heads. He was pissed. The aluminum Edelbrocks looked good, but "something" was not quite right.
My Guess, and it is only a guess, is the cc volume on the aluminum head was bigger than the iron Ford head. Therefore I would check this subject matter out very carefully.
regards, P |
| alternator/electric fan -- galaxiefreak64, 12/17/2003
i have a 1964 galaxie with 289 and i want to put a electric fan on it. the promblem is will my alternator handle it? the alternator has on it 15v 40ad7af 10300 aam neg if that helps any. if i have do buy a new alt. where can i buy one and how much |
| Interior Color Schemes -- galaxiefreak64, 12/15/2003
i have a blue interior color scheme. i want to paint my car but not white. what color would look good with a blue interior. its in a 1964 galaxie |
| | RE: Interior Color Schemes -- giacamo, 12/15/2003
blue or black if it,s dark blue interior. |
| | | RE: Interior Color Schemes -- galaxiefreak64, 12/15/2003
well in 64 they had a blue it is almost a like your name. were it says "by giacamo 12/15/2003, 8:07:47 PM" but a tab bit lighter |
| | | | RE:Guardsman Blue? -- McQ, 12/16/2003
A color that I particularly like, that I think was first used on '64, is Ford's Guardsman Blue. It was also available to Fairlane buyers and Merc counterparts too.
It's the color Shelby chose for the stripes on the white GT350 'stangs.
Another Ford blue that I think looks great and is quite unique is the '66 Saffire blue. This was a Thunderbird color that was available to the rest of the Ford line as an option with additional cost. You didn't see it very much. It was the color the that was used on the blue '66 GT350H(Hertz) Mustangs.
There was also a '64 light non metallic blue that was used too.
Color choices....paint that FE block black! Okay, "Ford Blue" in anything '66 & later. |
| | | | | RE:Guardsman Blue? -- Don F, 12/21/2003
Perhaps a gunmetal gray metallic |
| | | | | | black?? -- galaxiefreak64, 12/28/2003
how would black look with a blue interior |
| | | | | | | RE: black?? -- giacamo, 01/01/2004
good but black is a bitch to keep clean........ |
| | | | | | | | RE: black?? -- galaxiefreak64, 01/01/2004
well i guess i go with black, becuse its just cool.
thanks all of your help |
| 67 S-code Mustang -- Jeff Simpson, 12/15/2003
I have put aluminum (Edelbrock) heads on my GT 390 Mustang (67), with C-6, and now the Hooker headers don't seem to line up. Have tried 3 different type gaskets, Felpro, Mr gasket, etc. All leak out top. I heard there was a company (FPA?) that makes shortys for my application...can't find info on company. Also is it possible to use Cobra Jet exhaust manifolds?...does anyone sell them still? I know Hooker still makes them but will newer ones leak as well...mine are 15 years old? |
| | Use the Hooker gaskets. -- Dave Shoe, 12/15/2003
Hooker gaskets are readily available, just go to their website and whip out your VISA card. Hooker headers fit the Ed heads well (Hooker car headers fit poorly on most 1966-later FE heads, the exceptions being a great fit on C6AE-R and CJ heads), and when the correct gasket is used, the seal will be tops. You'll want to resnug the bolts after a few days and a few weeks, but once the gasket has taken a set, it's good.
I've not found Felpro or Mr. Gasket gaskets that even come close to matching the ports if the FE.
JMO, Shoe. |
| Correct kickdown rod for 67 Ford Fairlane 390 GT -- Frank Cricenti, 12/14/2003
Could someone assist me?
I have recently rebuilt a 67 Ford Fairlane 390 GT engine. I replaced the cast intake with an edelbrock 390 intake and added a holley 80575 carburetor. I had the original C6 transmission completely rebuilt and added a new converter and shift kit.
The only piece that I am missing for my engine is the correct kickdown rod from my carb to the c6 transmission. Could anyone suggest how I can fix this problem, where to find one or is there another vehicle that has the same kickdown rod that I can use as a correct replacement.
Any help will be appreciated, thanks Frank |
| | RE: Correct kickdown rod for 67 Ford Fairlane 390 GT -- Gerry Proctor, 12/15/2003
The kickdown rod assembly is unique to the 390 Fairlane, Frank. Good luck finding an exact replacement as they are not available aftermarket and what shows up on eBay is infrequent and expensive. You'll also not be able to cobble up something easily since the function with the bellcrank makes it difficult for even a skilled fabricator to create one.
Now, the good news. Unless you are looking for a factory-correct application, you can buy the C6 kickdown cable-operated set up from Lokar. It attaches to a carburetor bracket and to the carburetor, then to the transmission. In my opinion, this is a far easier and more functional method for the C6 kickdown since it is insensitive to engine location and torque-over. It may also be a good oportunity to do a throttle cable conversion at the same time a ditch the rod/bellcrank assembly. |
| | | There are also three versions of the linkage. -- Dave Shoe, 12/15/2003
As I recall, Ford modified the Fairlane/Montego linkage three times between 1966-1969 (including one midyear change), so you'll have to be sure you get the part that is correct for your car, or else get the entire linkage assy to transplant (may include the gas pedal, as it's got that flapper thing on it).
Based on the limited firewall clearance, Lokar is sounding good.
Shoe. |
| | | | I have the parts picture from the MPC if -- dennie, 12/15/2003
you need it let me know and i'll e-mail to ya. |
| | | | | RE: I have the parts picture from the MPC if -- Frank Cricenti, 12/15/2003
Hi Dennie.
Yes, I could use all the help I can get...
Thanks Frank |
| 390 pi -- bill, 12/14/2003
i have a 65 390 PI solid lifter can i install a hydraulic lifter with no problems or are th oil passages different |
| | It likely doesn't support hydraulics. -- Dave Shoe, 12/15/2003
While it's possible your block was drilled for hydraulics and the crossover passages had plugs installed for solids, most likely the blocks never had the hydraulic lifter passages drilled out.
I don't believe it's possible to use hydraulics in that engine.
Shoe. |
| 1969 grille -- galaxiefreak64, 12/13/2003
does any one have a 1969 grille for a pickup, all i really need is the left headlight cover (as you are sitting in it)but ill buy the whole grille |
| | RE: 1967-1969 grille -- galaxiefreak64, 12/13/2003
soory but the grille works 67-69, but i still need one. |
|