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 |  Got gold? -- Tom, 08/24/2002
Ok rember when i said id go on my hunt for 427's ? and you guys said i would not find any well i hit Gold heres what i got
1. 64 center oiler motor complete and running
1. 406 complete but in parts
2. 428 blocks
everything is Standard bore 4k total woo hoo now i just need projects to go with the motors. |
 | The first three Genesis 427 blocks are completed. -- Dave Shoe, 08/24/2002
I just spoke to Tim at www.Genesis427.com and learned they are stuffing the guts from a donor 427 engine into their furst fully qualified Genesis 427 block. He has two other blocks fully machined in the back of his truck and they will be at Columbus Ohio in six days for the show and swap. The block they are assembling today will be dropped into a Maverick and will be at the show (if I recall correctly). The second block is for show and tell. The third will be sliced up for the show.
Production has moved to an ISO 9001 qualified aerospace shop and each block is checked on a CMM (coordinate measurement machine) to assure all dimensions are exact. A CMM is a fully computerized machine which precisely and automatically checks dimensions in 3D space and can print out the results.
Block weight is 219 pounds, which is 26 pounds heavier than a NOS 427 block. At 2.250 bore there is .250 thrust wall. Core shift has been eliminated by the addition of two core plugs at the rear of the block similar to the core plugs found on the early 1958 FEs. Chaplets were also added to the galley side of the jacket core. You can find chaplets, also known as "core bolts", in most (maybe all?) FEs just by looking inside the center core plug hole for a steel rod.
Production capacity is presently 40 blocks per week, and the process is apparently set up quite efficiently, so ramp-up should be rapid. With luck, the block should be a "shelf stock" item within two months.
Columbus should be interesting. Expect updated info on new 428 cranks and new MR heads at the Genesis booth, too.
Shoe. |
 | C5AE-F medium risers.. -- Mike, 08/24/2002
any recommendations on valves to use with my new heads, i bought them bare. The sizes will stay stock 2.19 intake, 1.73 exhaust. I have been told the manley severe duty valves are real heavy. Thanks. |
|  | I don't have specifics, but... -- Dave Shoe, 08/24/2002
...according to the SAE papers written about the MR development, Ford engineers found that flat-head valves flow the best on MR heads and tuliped valves flow best on the Cammer.
Since lightweight "flat headed" valves are not particularly strong, Ford opted to use a slightly tuliped valve in the MR. This compromised flow slightly, but allowed the lightweight valve to last a long time.
Just what I read.
Shoe. |
| Anyone have head flow data for Medium Riser? -- Chuck Brandt, 08/23/2002
I've been playing with Desktop Dyno 2000 and would like to closely model a 427 I'm planning. I found one set of number (.600 lift 296 intake 177 exhaust) but I need at least 4 readings to put that into DD 2000.
Thanks, Chuck Brandt |
| 9510 carb -- John, 08/23/2002
D0PE-9510-U
List 4548-6
332
Universal, but what for?
289, 302,351?
John |
| | Are you sure its not DOPF 9510-U -- pop428, 08/24/2002
This is the only listing I have found in the holley numerical listing book....
And it's for a Ford service Carby 320,390,428 & 429, Automatic.....Trans. Circa 1970.
Peter
69 Mach 1 428Cjr
WT 703 Green |
| |  | Dope! -- John, 08/24/2002
I have already done search in your (Mr F`s)database and found the tread about DOPF carbs but this one read DOPE.
Might be an early version of the DOPF?
Thanks anyway.
John in Norway |
| | | | just a mistamp, the F in the fourth digit...... -- hawkrod, 08/25/2002
is there to indicate that the part is for the fuel system (covers ignition too go figure!) the body parts have a B in the fourth position and engine parts have an E. there are some cases where the carb is correctly stamped with an E instead of an F in that spot (E3ZE for example) but on your carb it is simply a mistake. hawkrod |
| | | | | Thanks -- John, 08/26/2002
Thanks.
John |
| | | | | Why F is also ignition... -- Dan Davis, 08/26/2002
...Until the early 90's there was a Ford division called EFHD, or Electrical and Fuel Handling Division. Anything they were in charge of engineering-wise (that is, came from their budget) got the "F" as the fourth digit.
Regards,
Dan |
| | | | | | and that is why i hang out here! thanks N/M -- hawkrod, 08/26/2002
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| | | | | | Test, please ignore [n/m] -- Dan Davis, 08/26/2002
nm |
| 390 Compression Ratio Question -- SkipC, 08/23/2002
Can anyone give me their best estimate on what the static compression ratio would be for the following combination.
Engine - 390 (std bore & flat top w/ eyebrows pistons) with 1970 CJ Heads (never milled)
Also,
Same engine with Edelbrock CJ style Heads (never milled).
Thanks, Skip
|
| | RE: 390 Compression Ratio Question -- Tim Johnson, 08/25/2002
Iffin I rememberz rite, a 390 4bbl engine with those pistons was originally rated @ 10.5-1. Installing the larger chamber CJ heads dropped the compression to 9.5-1 or thereabouts.
Hope this helps!
TJ |
| I badly need affordable rockers for my 390 -- nelson, 08/23/2002
My stock adjustable rockers for a mec. lifters are not holding up. last night the adjuster broke off from one of the rockers. Also the interference fit adjuster are coming loose.
Harlin Sharp makes a set with roller tips for $320 from Jegs, can a guy do any better? please let me know, for my FE is getting Frickin Expensive!! |
| stock 390 intake manifold? -- JESSE, 08/22/2002
would a stock 390 4-barrel intake manifold and a edelbrock 600cfm carb wake up a tired 352 ?whold it be worth the money? |
| | RE: stock 390 intake manifold? -- Brian Crisman, 08/23/2002
What intake/carb is on the 352?
You say it is "tired"......well that leads me to believe it may not be worth the money. Doing even minor performance upgrades to a worn out engine can just lead to sooner failure. Just enjoy the engine while it lasts. Maybe think about just leaving the 352 alone and start a 390/428 rebuild on the side. Just a thought.
Brian Crisman
67 Cougar GT 4spd |
| Headlights ON for 9/11/02 -- COUGAR, 08/22/2002
9/11 LIGHTS ON!
On Wednesday, September 11, 2002 everyone in the USA who will be driving a motor vehicle is asked to drive with their headlights on during daylight hours. Though no explanation is needed as to why we are commemorating September 11. We hope more importantly to pay respect to the victims of that day, show our nation's solidarity and show support for our men and women of the Armed Forces.
COUGAR
|
| 390 from a 67 T-bird into a 67 S code Mustang -- ponieboy, 08/22/2002
There's some serious $ on the line here. What if any changes, are needed to a 67 T-bird 390, to let the thing sit into a S coded 67 Mustang. Help! |
| | RE: 390 from a 67 T-bird into a 67 S code Mustang -- Gerry Proctor, 08/22/2002
It depends on how the engine in the T-bird is configured and what you need for it to retrofit into the Mustang. For sure, the heads (as far as the exhaust port and bolt pattern) and exhaust manifolds are different between the 'Bird and Mustang. Not to say that you can't make the swap but the log manifolds from the 'Bird absolutely will not fit the unibody chassis. You can or may be able to re-drill the head's exhaust port for the unibody 14-bolt pattern exhaust but this would only be necessary if you intend on using the proper S-code manifolds. It gets rather complicated in the exhaust department and you'd have to tell us more about what you already have for the Mustang.
The engine itself is not entirely different so it is by no means a difficult prospect but there are considerations like the engine mount block adapters and rubber isolators, accessory drives and the like that need to be taken into consideration. I guess the real question is that can you just take the thing out of the T-bird and plop it into the Mustang with no muss or fuss? The answer is no. Some components do have to change. Again, nothing real difficult but it's not a direct swap. Your easy success will depend on how many of the unibody-unique parts you already have. |
| | | Log manifolds will fit.... -- kevin, 08/22/2002
been through that, not pretty, easy, or recomended. The head casting # will determine if you can proceed with the GT manifold conversion, or which headers you will need to use. They need welded up anyway, no matter whose you put on. The other thing, the T-Bird balancer and pully set up will hit the sway bar. You need the "S" code front pulleys and brackets to make it easy. The oil pan will not likely have the reliefs on the side for the drag link either. Kickdown linkage will be different, along with the throttle brackets. Is there no engine in the "S" code car? They are realitively inexpensive to obtain if not. If this is just a swap due to a bad engine, I would recommend a teardown and inspection. Most used engines need everything anyway. |
| | | | RE: Log manifolds will fit.... -- choug@wiscoind.com, 08/22/2002
I'm not sure what "Log manifolds" are, there is a 289 in it now, thats bad. I thought the right thing to do was give this car a new lease on life, by doing this 390 thing. I'm losing sleep over this engine swap project, not knowing EXACTLY what/how, to pull this off. |
| | | | | transmission woes.......... -- joe schepker, 08/23/2002
well, if it's an auto, you'll have transmission problems also, as the smallblock C4 won't fit the 390 and the tbird C6 doesn't have the correct shifter parts(the tbird has a column shift and the mustang has a floorshift.) the linkage coming out of the trans case for each car is different depending on floor or column shift. if it's a 4 speed, then you need the 390 bellhousing and clutch pieces. if you decide to do such a swap, many of us might be able to help in the parts end, to make it possible. let me know........good luck. joe |
| | | | | | RE: transmission woes.......... -- ponieboy, 08/23/2002
Joe, Ive got the C6, but never thought about the shifting linkage, I'm thinking about canning the whole thing and cut my losses, unless somebody
can offer me a ray of light. |
| | | | | RE: Log manifolds will fit.... -- David Thayer, 08/23/2002
When Ford put the fe into the mustang and the torino, it went to a head with a horizontal bolt pattern on the exhaust manifold to facilitate the engine going into this body. These are refered to as the GT heads, and thus you will here the exhaust manifolds refered to as the gt exxhaust manifolds.
Fords FE exhaust manifolds are pretty easy to sort out, the LOG type were used in large passenger cars and trucks, the GT's were used in mustangs, cougars, torino's and comets, the CJ which look similar to the GT but larger were used in the 428 CJ cars but can be used on 390's with the horizontal GT heads, the Cast Iron header were used in early full size 406/427 cars, and last but not least, the Ball Glove casting was produced and used on 66-68 427 Fairlane, Comet, Mustang and Cougars as they used MR heads which did not have the Horizonatal bolt patter. |
| | RE: 390 from a 67 T-bird into a 67 S code Mustang -- mustangoldtimer, 08/23/2002
Come on guys, this isn't that hard. You are scaring ponieboy. |
| | | RE: 390 from a 67 T-bird into a 67 S code Mustang -- ponieboy, 08/23/2002
Yeah, what he said!, the jury is still out! |
| | | | RE: 390 from a 67 T-bird into a 67 S code Mustang -- Brian Crisman, 08/23/2002
If you want to do the FE swap it isn't that difficult......we just need to know what you have already and what you are willing to spend in both money and labor. Nothing is too difficult at all but it is not a direct swap (as was stated before).
My opinion would be to just rebuild the small block or get a crate engine especially if the T-bird 390 you have is in need of a rebuild. Don't get me wrong....I have a pretty nicely built 390 in my '67 Cougar and wouldn't get rid of it......but it came with a 390 and I felt it was "the right thing to do" to keep it a FE. Rebuilding an FE right is rather expensive compared to a Windsor and it is harder to find qualified engine builders/machinists to do the work you may need.
I am not trying to steer you away from the project.....just letting you know there may be a downside. On the upside........the power of a well built FE and the "ooooohhhhh factor" when you pop the hood can far outweigh any headaches you may encounter.
Brian Crisman
67 Cougar GT 4spd |
| | | | | i guess it is time for me to pipe in...(very long) -- hawkrod, 08/23/2002
the swap to a 390 is not an impossible task but it can be expensive and the road is littered with many who have tried. there are several key components that are need to make the swap. many of these parts are available new but you may prefer to use aftermarket parts as it will be cheaper and easier to get. first off your tbird engine will fit as will all the pulleys brackets and harmonic balancer. ford only had one style of balancer on 390's from 64-67 despite what an earlier post said. your problem will be the front sway bar as a small block bar is different than a big block. so just buy an aftermarket 1 inch bar from any of the suppliers and that will solve the problem and make your car more fun to drive. second is the motor mounts. since you have a 67 your frame brackets will work (if you have a 68-70 they have to be changed) but you will need block plates and mounts but both can be had from mustang suppliers (buy the repop block plates, they look bad compared to originals but work fine and are much cheaper). the exhaust pattern is the next issue. i know some people have made log manifolds fit, but take it to a show somewhere and you will be humiliated by the response. just buy some headers and that will be okay. if you are set on making it right you will have to see which heads you have as many can be drilled to accept the GT manifolds but not all. the next thing is kickdown linkage for the trans, the stock mustang big block part is special but you can convert a small block by cutting the arm off the throttle linkage and then welding it back on outside of the mounting bracket. this is actually a pain if you do not have one to look at to see where it goes. i recommend removing the arm from your original linkage and using a lokar cable kickdown kit. the shift linkage is also special but again you can use aftermarket conversions and it will be fine. you will have to fabricate a neutral safety switch if you use an aftermarket kit as they ride where the stock switch would be. you can use a 69 shifter with a built in switch and just get the linkage arm from one of the companies. the trans mount is the next and maybe the hardest part. the original mount won't work no matter how much you want it to. the small block mount sits several inches higher than a big block mount and even if you get it to fit it will wear out U joints and cause driveline vibrations. also in question is the tailshaft mount on your new trans, some tbirds used a very weird mount that had bolts going into the tailshaft at angle instead up straight up and if you have that you can just swap it with a regular one from another fullsize ford. hawkrod (yes i can sell you a kit, no you don't want to know how much!) |
| | | | | | RE: i guess it is time for me to pipe in...(very l -- ponieboy, 08/23/2002
I take my (humble) hat off............I was wondering if you were going to respond! Do you charge for consulting? That's a great over view!, i'll be back later with the detail questions. |
| | | | | | kudo's to skip for catching me..... -- hawkrod, 08/23/2002
i had not paid enough attention to the headers and did not realize we were talking about puting a 390 into a 390 car. for some reason i thought we were talking about converting a small block car. if the car was a big block you may already have the right sway bar, gas pedal assembly and trans mount (unless i found the car first!) but all else still applies. hawkrod |
| | | | | | | What about a swap into a cougar? -- Paul G, 08/24/2002
Hawkrod,
I am collecting the parts and information needed to swap the 351 in my 69 XR7 convertible, for a FE. The Cougar currently has a 351 with small block C6. I have already gotten some great advice from other FE folks out there, is there any special problems that I should be on the lookout for?
I already have the FE C6 that was attached to the 390. I have the big block cougar radiator and fan. And I plan on running headers into my existing dual 2 1/2 exhaust. The C6 is from the F-250 that the 390 was in. Will if fit into my Cougar? I had to "customize" a few things to get the small block C6 to fit, how much different are the two trans? The FE is a D4TE block with the reinforced webs. I have not yet had it sonic checked but the drill bit test looks pretty good. I am going to have it baked, fluxed and soniced' this fall to determine what a safe bore will be. The engine ran pretty strong in my 73 250 hiboy, so I can't wait to get it in my Cougar. I recently got ahold a 428 crank and flywheel, and I am waiting on a H/M low rise 2x4. Any insight into making this swap easier would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Paul G. |
| | | | | | | | different day, same sh%t <G> ..... -- hawkrod, 08/24/2002
sorry, could not resist. the only item different is the kickdown linkage as the 69/70 big blocks used a tube from the carb to the trans and you can usually make something fit but i still like the lokar setup. your trans is probably a short tailshaft with a bolt on yoke and you may have to get it changed to car one to get it to fit. you will have to deal with exhaust manifolds/headers, motor mounts, trans mount (no the one you have won't work, a big block crank center line is lower so the trans has to hang lower), sway bar etc...hawkrod |
| | | | | | RE: i guess it is time for me to pipe in...(very l -- ponieboy, 08/26/2002
O.K. One more question, will exhust manifolds from a Mustang (67) fit on the T-bird?, I know this sounds like a no brainer, but after (all the above), I'm not even sure what my name is. I am assuming that both, have the staggered bolt pattern. also, what is the fomoco part # for the correct manifolds? |
| | | | | | | not without work and maybe not even then.... -- hawkrod, 08/26/2002
the manifold bolt pattern for a mustang is different than a t bird. MOST 66 and newwer tbird heads were cast with the extra metal where you can drill and tap to install the mustang manifolds but if i say all you will show me one that won't. buy an exhaust gasket for a 390 GT mustang and use it as a pattern to check your heads and then mark it, drill, and tap the holes. the manifolds for your car are C6OE and C70E casting numbers. one of the guys here has a great website showing manifolds but i lost the link in my latest computer crash so maybe someone will pipe in and post the link so i can get it back. thanks, hawkrod |
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