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 |  valve train noise 390 cu in -- Bruce Geister, 07/31/2002
I have a 1964 Galaxie with a 390 engine and it runs perfectly.....except there is noise in the valve train on the right bank and it is loud. I believe it to be a bad lifter but would like others opinions. The noise is louder when the engine is cold and less when the it is hot. The noise is the worst when the engine is at low rpm's, idle, and gets much less when rpm's increase. The push rods appear to be fine when engine is running. I have pulled the valve cover and with engine at idle all appears normal. Except for the noise. I think lifter. If it is lifter noise should I replace all at same time or just the bad one? Or is it a bad cam?
I would like all opinions.
Thanks
Bruce |
|  | RE: valve train noise 390 cu in -- john, 07/31/2002
i had the same thing with my 390 and went ahead and replaced all the lifters and nothing changed. still looking for answer |
| ![Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=13911&Reply=13902><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a> <b>When did it start? After a cam change? [n/m]</b> -- <font color=#0000ff>Dan Davis, <i>07/31/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>nm </blockquote>](/WebResource.axd?d=vG1pKMaqyV2y6301aKyltlJH-Zh6OWyAHjeN9UDBpv9vQOsVx_3yRTBcjg1zFAGSu5IpbezLCk7z5vPT3v_BFfP1rm1IM4AKv2gwOEp1kabBjoLmo2WeFvdyCTzUr6bx0&t=637814653746327080) | When did it start? After a cam change? [n/m] -- Dan Davis, 07/31/2002
nm |
| | | RE: When did it start? After a cam change? [n/m] -- john, 07/31/2002
not after a cam change but the motor was rebuilt.my thoughts are that the cam lobes are now flat(the surface not the lobe)and the lifter does not rotate on the lobe which will wear out lifters and lobes prematurely. cam probably shouyld have been replaced. |
| |  | RE: When did it start? After a cam change? [n/m] -- Bruce Geister, 08/01/2002
No, engine has not been opened and has 60,000 miles on it. I bought it used. |
|  | RE: valve train noise 390 cu in -- Matt Nelson, 08/03/2002
I have a 427 in a 63 galaxie that I recently redid. If you have adjustable rockers, with not lock nut on them, they are called interference fit. Interference fit adjuster are know to work themselves loose, especialy after a cam upgrade. A few of my adjuster have already been replaced with oversided ones. When I turn on them, some of them don't turn very hard either. The end result is to go aftermaket, and be ready to dish out. After all, FE stands for Fu*king Expensive. 800$$ is the cheapest after market rocker that I have found. Good luck!! |
| | | RE: valve train noise 390 cu in -- Garth, 08/07/2002
Harland-sharp makes a set of rockers for about $350.
They have a good rep on the fordfe.com forum.
jegs and summit both carry them
Garth |
| Check this out! -- bear, 07/31/2002
This company is offering strocker kit for the Fe at reasonable prices check it out.
www.flatlanderracing.com |
| | RE: Check this out! -- John, 07/31/2002
They seem to be offering the SCAT 428 crank for stroker kits at $569. Beats E-bay where for the same price you get an unknown item. Wonder how much they are from SCAT direct? |
| | | RE: Check this out! Hold on ! -- Ray, 07/31/2002
Cranks won't be ready for at lest 60 days, the price is around $900 for 3.98 or 4.25 stroker, info comes from Brian at scat. It's not cheap but it's another sorce of parts for the old timer. Ray |
| | | | Something fishy about the pricing -- John, 07/31/2002
$900 from SCAT?
Flatlander advertises as follows:
Scat Cranks:
7-FE-1 3.98" Stroke (Stock 428)/Ford FE Mains/FE Rods $569
7-FE-2 3.98" Stroke/Ford FE Mains/BBC Rods $569
7-FE-3 4.125" Stroke/Ford FE Mains/BBC Rods $569
7-FE-4 4.250" Stroke/Ford FE Mains/BBC Rods $569
Something is amiss..... |
| | | | | RE: Something fishy about the pricing -- Ray, 07/31/2002
It's could be John, I just called when I seen your post to find out. Brian informed me it was $890 for a single crank, but when someone buys in quanitity (It's $5000 buy-in) it does get much cheaper.Ray |
| | | | It was 60 days over 30 days ago!! -- Styletone58, 07/31/2002
Brian seems to be extending the delivery date, because it was 60 days out over 30 days ago when I spoke to him. |
| | | | | RE: It was 60 days over 30 days ago!That I believe -- Ray, 07/31/2002
n/m |
| help please -- captinshiner, 07/30/2002
this is a realy dumb question and joke if you want, but is big block and fe the same . also would a fe engine fit in a 65 mustang |
| | RE: help please -- Tom, 07/30/2002
depends on a Big Block either 385 AKA 429 460 series or ya talking FE family 332-428 they make FE kits for 65 mustanbgs i forget where to look |
| This fellow got two free 427's -- David Thayer, 07/30/2002
I post on another board that specializes in Ford Trucks. One of the fellows on there Emailed me and told me he had seen some guys taking chain saws to an old Wooden boat that had been sitting in a lot for about 20 years. He walked up and to his surprise saw what appeared to be 2 Ford Fe motors. Hesaid they were getting ready to haul them off to the dump. He told me they looked like Fe's but were light blue and said "300 HP" on the valve covers. He was thinking about taking them as they offered them to him to haul off but he wasn't sure if they would be worth getting.
I advised him to grab them or tell me where they were.
He emailed be back today and said he followed my advice, and is now the proud owner of 2 427 marine engines complete with all of the mairne drive/running gear.
He also said his wife thinks he is nuts for dragging all of that "JUNK" home.
Women!
David |
| | I don't suppose he'd . . . -- Orin, 07/30/2002
. . want to GIVE one away . . . :-) |
| | | or double his money! <G> N/M. -- hawkrod, 07/30/2002
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| | | RE: I don't suppose he'd . . . -- David Thayer, 07/30/2002
he is posting at www.fordtrucks.com under the fe engine section |
| | Interesting, but with a problem -- John, 07/30/2002
Now, everybody knows (or should know)that one should NEVER take a chain saw to wood that has nails in it. The chain will get ruined, or worse might fly off and hurt some-one. So stay tuned and maybe the wife will sell her deceased husband's "junk" cheap! Aside from "that" black humour, one engine is most likely a counter-rotating engine, and they are both likely center-oilers...but it's still an amazing find. Alomost like that fellow sho checked his serial #'s on his motor-bike only to find out the original owner was E. Presley ....chuckle. Nah, I believe you. So the FE point is this.....wouldn't a 390 crank work in the counter-rotating engine? Maybe not as strong, but plenty good for the street I would think. A new distributor and cam are no problem. Is there anything else one would need to carry out a conversion like that? And as far as the boat goes....a really big bonfire might be fun..... |
| | | RE: 390 cranks -- David Thayer, 07/30/2002
Yes, the marine 427 used the same cast iron 390 crank.
This guy says he has an F100 with a dump bed that needs an engine, he is going to see if the normal engine will run and if so is going to put it in the truck!! |
| | | Counter-rotation not really a problem... -- Dan Davis, 07/30/2002
...as the only difference is the oil control knurls. You need to remove the knurls on the crankshaft at the rear main seal area. You see, on a reverse rotation engine, they reverse the knurls. The knurl is to force oil away from the rope seal. They are not needed if you use a split-lip style seal. The reversed knurls would force oil out of the engine at the rear main seal – even a split-lip seal would not seal it. The last reverse rotation engine I converted, I took the crank to Moldex and had them polish out the knurls without taking off too much metal, otherwise the split-lip seal will not seal. Total cost $35. Runs fine, no leaks.
The other differences are that the cam & distributor gears are cut in a reverse direction so that the distributor turns in the normal direction. The cam is also ground on a centerline about 90° from normal rotation. This required a different firing order from normal, 1-8-7-3-6-2-4-5 versus the standard 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.
Cheers,
Dan
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| c3se exhaust manifolds. what engine? -- T.Ramsey, 07/30/2002
I was cleaning my garage and found an old set of exhaust mainfolds "c3se". Does anyone know what engine they came on? |
| | RE: c3se exhaust manifolds. what engine? -- Royce Peterson, 07/30/2002
C=decade 1960's
3=year of deacade = 1963
SE = Thunderbird application
Royce Peterson |
| Acceleration stumble / lag. -- Bill, 07/30/2002
Hello,
All stock '68 428 CJ with just rebuilt (regasketed) Holley 735. It stumbles pretty badly when the gas pedal is hit hard from idle. Otherwise acceleration and power feel normal. The accelerator pump is new.
Vacuum advance/retard issue?
Thanks for your help.
Bill |
| | RE: Acceleration stumble / lag. -- travis, 07/30/2002
probably timing related, what is your initial set at? How much mechanical advance? |
| | RE: Acceleration stumble / lag. -- Joel, 07/30/2002
It could also be too weak of a secondary spring. Do you know which one it has in it now? |
| 427 valves -- Fred Cummings, 07/30/2002
need 2 427/ 428 lightweight 2.09 intake valves--C8AX6507-a also 1 TRW .030 over pop-up piston 11.5 -thanks--
|
| | | | Good value, but not the same....... -- kevin, 08/01/2002
you can call John Vermeersch at Total Performance in Mt Clemons Michigan. He may have a couple of spares laying around. They are flat, like the Hi-Riser valves are. I used to trim down the Hi-Risers to make the C-J size jobs. You have a hard time finding these in this day and age for sure. I have some, but do not have access to them at the moment. What piston do you need? 427 or 428? Must have dropped a valve eh? |
| Need Help with rear seal replacement -- Paul67GT390, 07/29/2002
HI,
I have a 1967 GT with a 390 and it leaks like a sive. I believe the rear seal is leaking (as well as the oil pan, the manifold, the timing chain cover, the fuel pump, and the oil filter watch-a-ma-call-it.). The oil has gotton on the clutch and soaked it, thus that doesn't grab anymore.
I think its time to pull the engine, and I wanted any advice regarding pulling the engine, and replacing the rear seal. I understand it's a 2 peice unit and kind of tricky.
Can anyone help?
Thanks, Paul |
| who deals with 428 Short blocks -- -MADMAN-, 07/29/2002
Can anyone point me in the direction of some one who sells them and has them readily available I recently sent a rod threw the block on my 390.....o the carnage....lol. The rod appears to have broken by the pin and i was wondering if the crank would be worth saving to sell?
thanks in advance |
| | There's not yet a lot of demand for 390 cranks. -- Dave Shoe, 07/29/2002
Nice as a 390 is to race, 390 cranks still tend to be readily available, so it's not all that easy to sell one.
If it's salvageable (not overheated or heavily scored), then it's probably worth saving for a future project, but this does not necessarily make it an easy sell. Just a handy spare part.
I'm not sure who stocks 428 short blocks. You've got to be pretty sceptical about any shop who does claim to offer them, because they may simply be way overbored 360/390 blocks. Choose the shop carefully.
Shoe. |
| | RE: who deals with 428 Short blocks -- Fred Cummings, 07/30/2002
Ford Power parts has 2 428`s 1 is a short block std. bore 428 CJ pistons polished 427/428 rods with arp bolts bal. 10/20 crank Crane Cam 68 PI block .---the other is 67 PI bare block.030 bore very good bore
I have them on consigment at FPP if interested give me a call or call FPP
(562)867-5984 Ca. |
| | | RE: who deals with 428 Short blocks -- Ron, 07/30/2002
The short block sounds good fred. Email me the prices and any other details on both. |
| | 428,s -- Junior, 07/30/2002
I have a 428 block in my 67' F-100 4x4. Just checked block #'s. |
| | | how do you know it is a 428.... -- hawkrod, 07/30/2002
the numbers on the outside will not tell you what is on the inside. 428 blocks use the same casting numbers as 352 360 and 390 blocks. if you are using one of the identifier lists to check casting numbers be aware that all of the lists are pretty much junk as after 66 almost any engine can have any casting number. you must check the bore and stroke to verify a 428. hawkrod |
| | | | RE: how do you know it is a 428.... -- Monte Scott, 08/04/2002
I read somewhere that if you run your finger around the backside of the vibration damper and there are balance holes you have a 390. If you do not encounter any balance holes it is a 428. Fact or fiction I don't know but it is something to check out. Monte |
| | | | | That's complete hogwash Monte. -- Royce Peterson, 08/04/2002
Who ever told you that is confused and clueless about FE's.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | RE: That's complete hogwash Monte. -- Monte, 08/04/2002
Well bummer, that blows that good idea. Is there any way to tell a 390 from a 428 from the outside without tearing them down and measuring them? Obviously clueless in Utah. Monte.
p.s. And I thought I was doing so well at this stuff. |
| | | | | | | There's no good way.... -- Royce Peterson, 08/04/2002
There was a good way to tell if the engine was an unmolested original. You need to remove the flywheel dust plate and look for a weight on the flywheel on auto trans cars. The harmonic balancer for any 428CJ is the same as that for a 390.
The real story though is that all these motors are 32 years old or more in the case of 428's and almost anything can be put together to look like a 428. You really have to check bore and stroke to know FOR SURE.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | | | RE: There's no good way.... -- joe, 09/08/2002
well, the 428 is externally balanced, the 390 is not, so if you happened to have the oil pan off there wouldnt be any weights on the throws. |
| Intake Manifold Gaskets Re-Visited -- John, 07/28/2002
I just read about a week ago or so in here, about Fel-Pro Intake Manifold Gaskets prone to leaking. Can anyone enlighten me again about this situation? I can do a search I suppose, but thought I might add some particulars as it could be of interest and it might get me a better answer.
Now before I start, please remember that I have re-built more engines than I can remember, from Japanese 4 cylinders to Chev and Ford small-blocks to Pontiac and FE big blocks, but the only problems I have EVER had is always with the FE. Here goes:
So...I want to build a 410. Gete a 428 IU crank already machined 20-20. Take it to be balanced. Turns out all the journals were machined with an unacceptable taper. Get it re-done to 30-30. Oh-oh...block is cracked at a frost plug. Get a new block. Have the machine work done and assemble the engine. After about 2000 miles, the engine is toast. Crack in the lifter valley area of the block appeared and anti-feeeze ate the bearings. Get a new block and turn the crank 40-40 (should have had it hard-chromed instead at that point...sigh). They magnaflux and machine the block. When the machinist removed the main bearing caps for line-honing, he noticed a pattern of filings around a main bearing threaded hole. Another cracked block. Finally got a decent block. Assembled the engine. Lower than normal oil pressure. Switched oil from 10W30 to 20W50. Slight improvement. Then...all of a sudden, a big improvement. Almost to what I expected. Oil pump bypass valve msut have been stuck. Unusual, but possible. Ran about 200 miles on engine in short trips. Everything fine. A few flecks in the oil filter, but nothing to bad for a fresh rebuild. Drove it to work and back last Friday About 100 miles round trip). Worked great. About 2 miles before home the temp gauge started to go down and the oil temp gauge went up, then the water temp finally went up. Filled the rad with water. Made it home OK. Checked everything the next day. Antifreeze is definately in the oil. The oil pressure is still the same, so I am going to try and change the intake manifold gaskets and flush the sump (maybe change the main bearings in the car...I hate doing that). Probably won't work with my luck. I know it's not the head gaskets, because there is no white smoke on start-up, or any other time for that matter. Just a bit of gray smoke (which has been there for a while)when I step on it, which is most likely from my 2-hole HS rocker shafts which I must do something about. These FE engines work great. I am happy with my cam choice and power. I love the way it works. I don't push it as I have a very light car and don't race it. But I sure can't get longevity out of the engine. I am too stubborn to give up, but I am getting dissapointed a lot. So.....anyone think that I just have an intake manifold gasket problem? Wishfull thinking I suspect......sigh. |
| | My FelPro problem seems to be unique. -- Dave Shoe, 07/29/2002
With your string of luck, and the oil pressure oddity (metal shaving?), I'd do a full teardown and reinspection. You won't regret it. It's possible the intake gasket will fix things, but you need to trust the engine, and this is tough because the coolant leak has not been the only anomaly. The total disassembly will tell you a story which explains the behavior.
The FelPro blue gaskets I used with the CJ headed 427 block and BT intake warped like shriveled bacon as the months passed. Don't know what caused the non-symmetrical creeping of gasket, but the bolt holes stretched as each thermal cycle (warm up/cool down) caused the gasket to shift a bit more. Soon I had severe smoke at idle, then a rough idle. Removing the valve covers revealed the warped and stretched gasket. I switched to cheapo "Detroit" brand gaskets hand have not had problems since (a dozen years maybe).
Your first two block cracks sound suspiciously like frozen coolant expanding in block while stiitn in the salvageyard. Both the core holes and the valley walls crack when the ice expands. The mainsaddle crack is just plain disappointing.
As for 428 cranks with unknown history, you definitely need to magnaflux them, as both the heavily raced car 428s and the heavily worked industrial 428 cranks had the ability to develop tiny cracks, particularly at the inside radius of the rod journal where it's sorta close to the main journal. 428 cranks used in street performance apps tended to faire far better. 40-40 is not a problem for an FE nodular crank (except the # of future rebuilds shrinks horribly) if the inside fillet radius is properly cut, but be watchful of the oil passage breaking thru if it's not drilled quite true, and also aware the rod journal can get particularly thin if the lightening hole is not reasonably centered (they are typically not "centered", but are sometimes less centered than normal), as these can be problems. The 40-40 cut should last a really long time, and cast iron is very nice to the bearings. Hard Chroming will accelerate bearing wear, so I think you did the right thing in not chroming it.
Your string of sucky luck will change sooner or later. Let's hope it's sooner.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | Thank-you, and pics.... -- John, 07/30/2002
Thanks Shoe for the info. I know you are right about tearing the engine down again, but I was trying to be optomistic. I have two spare blocks, a 360 with the extra webbing and a 428 never been bored block. I have one spare 428 CJ crank, but it needs to be balanced and I need the flywheel out of the car for that. These parts I was saving till I got everything working with the older stuff. The problem with gaskets that leak, is that in most cases, it is almost impossible to tell from the gasket that it was leaking. I've had a really bad head gasket leak on an engine that showed no sign once torn down. It might almost be better to drop the pan and pressurize the cooling system to see if the leak can be seen visually. I know I sounded glum in my letter, but it's a short summer up here and I prefer to rebuild the engine over the winter. I'm going to inspect the oil filter today and do some pressure tests with the valve covers off and see if I can see or hear anything leaking before I started tearing everything down. By the way, this engine is a pig to install in my car...not so bad to remove though. Thanks again, and here's a couple of pics (I'm the one with the gray hair, which is most likely due to this engine...chuckle):
 |
| | | | One other quick note -- John, 07/30/2002
Oh...I forgot to mention. When I installed the manifold gaskets, I only used sealer on the side without the raised blue ring. I suspected the raised blue ring would seal well enough without sealer. Maybe this was a mistake? |
| | | | | RE: One other quick note/ On another note did you? -- Ray, 07/31/2002
surface the intake side of head? Some of this old iron is warped bad, and has a hard time sealing around water outlets of the head and sometime bad enough to leak oil througth the intake as well. So do your self a favor, machine all three sides of the head.
 |
| | | | | | RE: not exactly... -- John, 08/01/2002
The sides were cleaned up. I presume they used one of those belt sander type cylinder head machines vs actually milling it. Anyway, I will come back to this site and report what I find. Maybe it wil help somebody else sometime. Thanks a lot for all you help and advice. |
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