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 NOS 427 Expansion tank on E-bay -- John M. Sutton, 01/21/2002
Guys: this looks like a 427 expansion tank, but the seller calls it just a Ford big block expansion tank. This auction ends in leass than an hour from now., 10:48 PM Eastern time.
I didn't recognize any of you all's names on it, though, in the bid history.
Good luck!
BTW, I don't know the guy or the product. Just keeping an eye out.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10898&Reply=10898><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Pittman problems</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Krinn E., <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I hope i don't seem out of place looking here...but im desperate.  My 1973 Mustang is ready for the road but for the lack of a Pittman arm for the power steering.  If anyone on the board knows where I can get one it would be much appreciated.   By the way neither National Parts Depot or Oklahoma Mustang Supply has the part.... any help would be much appreciated.  Thank you for the past encouragement....the fe 390 fit just fine in the old grande just required some finessing, now she's almost a true hot rod.<br><br>thank you <br><br>krinn </blockquote> Pittman problems -- Krinn E., 01/21/2002
I hope i don't seem out of place looking here...but im desperate. My 1973 Mustang is ready for the road but for the lack of a Pittman arm for the power steering. If anyone on the board knows where I can get one it would be much appreciated. By the way neither National Parts Depot or Oklahoma Mustang Supply has the part.... any help would be much appreciated. Thank you for the past encouragement....the fe 390 fit just fine in the old grande just required some finessing, now she's almost a true hot rod.

thank you

krinn
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10900&Reply=10898><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Pittman problems</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Alan Casida, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Try Kanter. They have one listed for $125, but they don't distinguish between power and manual steering.<br><a href="http://kanter.com/">http://kanter.com/</a> </blockquote> RE: Pittman problems -- Alan Casida, 01/21/2002
Try Kanter. They have one listed for $125, but they don't distinguish between power and manual steering.
http://kanter.com/
 thank you very much -- Krinn E., 01/22/2002
thanks
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10896&Reply=10896><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Casting numbers?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>John, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I'm looking at a 4V motor in a '63 F-100 which is not original, and may be a parts motor.  It looks like a 352, but I''m not completely sure.  I'm told it is a 390.  These are the best numbers I can get off it, can you help me with them?<br>Heads:  D2TEAA<br>Block under the oil filter stand:   E    3E10<br>On the front is 88, then below, 352.  <br>There are some threaded bolt holes along the top of the oil pan, and some ridges cast into the sides of the block.<br>Thank you. </blockquote> Casting numbers? -- John, 01/21/2002
I'm looking at a 4V motor in a '63 F-100 which is not original, and may be a parts motor. It looks like a 352, but I''m not completely sure. I'm told it is a 390. These are the best numbers I can get off it, can you help me with them?
Heads: D2TEAA
Block under the oil filter stand: E 3E10
On the front is 88, then below, 352.
There are some threaded bolt holes along the top of the oil pan, and some ridges cast into the sides of the block.
Thank you.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10903&Reply=10896><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Casting numbers?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>The heads are standard truck 360 heads, the block was cast May 10, 1973.  <br><br>To pin it down closer use the following procedure to check the stroke.  <br><br>Here's the easy way to check the stroke without removing the head.  Get a straight 12 inch piece of coat hanger wire.  Get a magic marker. Remove the number 1 and number 4 spark plugs.  Turn the engine over until the timing mark is at TDC.  Put the wire in the number 1 spark plug hole with wire resting on the top of the piston.  Make a mark on the wire even with the lip on the valve cover. Now move the wire over to the number 4 cylinder and mark the wire again.  Measure the distance between the two marks. <br><br>For those that don't know:  3.98 is the stroke for the 410 and 428 engines; 3.78 is the stroke for the 390, 406 and 427 engines and 3.5 is the stroke for the 352 and 360 engines.<br><br>Thanks to John Wilkerson for giving me the idea for this. <br><br> </blockquote> RE: Casting numbers? -- Bob, 01/21/2002
The heads are standard truck 360 heads, the block was cast May 10, 1973.

To pin it down closer use the following procedure to check the stroke.

Here's the easy way to check the stroke without removing the head. Get a straight 12 inch piece of coat hanger wire. Get a magic marker. Remove the number 1 and number 4 spark plugs. Turn the engine over until the timing mark is at TDC. Put the wire in the number 1 spark plug hole with wire resting on the top of the piston. Make a mark on the wire even with the lip on the valve cover. Now move the wire over to the number 4 cylinder and mark the wire again. Measure the distance between the two marks.

For those that don't know: 3.98 is the stroke for the 410 and 428 engines; 3.78 is the stroke for the 390, 406 and 427 engines and 3.5 is the stroke for the 352 and 360 engines.

Thanks to John Wilkerson for giving me the idea for this.

 Thanks! -- John, 01/22/2002
Thank you Bob. I'll go on ahead and buy it. It runs well, and will make a good replacement for my truck.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10890&Reply=10890><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>question for shoe or others</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>David Thayer, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Dave,<br>I have tried several times to sign-up for the network 54 forum.  Everytime, I get my password and then it tells me I must register before I can post. It says I will get confirmation of my registration via E-mail and I never get anything.<br><br>Do you know what could be wrong. I swear, I am NOT Stanely Superior!! ha ha ha<br><br>David Thayer   </blockquote> question for shoe or others -- David Thayer, 01/21/2002
Dave,
I have tried several times to sign-up for the network 54 forum. Everytime, I get my password and then it tells me I must register before I can post. It says I will get confirmation of my registration via E-mail and I never get anything.

Do you know what could be wrong. I swear, I am NOT Stanely Superior!! ha ha ha

David Thayer
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10895&Reply=10890><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>I found it difficult, too.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>For some reason, I recall fighting the instructions several times before finally getting signed up properly.<br><br>It's been well over a year, but I recall I did receive a confirming email from Net54, and I believe I was required to respond to the email they sent in order to complete the communication loop verification process.<br><br>I can review the old email message they sent to me tonight, as it should help jog my memory as to what the process was.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> I found it difficult, too. -- Dave Shoe, 01/21/2002
For some reason, I recall fighting the instructions several times before finally getting signed up properly.

It's been well over a year, but I recall I did receive a confirming email from Net54, and I believe I was required to respond to the email they sent in order to complete the communication loop verification process.

I can review the old email message they sent to me tonight, as it should help jog my memory as to what the process was.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10904&Reply=10890><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Yup, they email a "Validation Key"</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>01/22/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I now recall spending almost a week trying to figure out the frustrating instructions to get the email response from Net54.<br><br>I believe it was the fourth time I tried that I actually happened to hit the correct key sequence so Net54 would send me the "validation Key" email message.<br><br>Once I got the message, it was easy.  Just click on the link in the message and you are authorized to post in the designated forum.<br><br>While I'm not gonna try to refigure out what I did to sign up (for fear of accidentally undoing it), recognize there is a way, and it's not exactly obvious.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Yup, they email a "Validation Key" -- Dave Shoe, 01/22/2002
I now recall spending almost a week trying to figure out the frustrating instructions to get the email response from Net54.

I believe it was the fourth time I tried that I actually happened to hit the correct key sequence so Net54 would send me the "validation Key" email message.

Once I got the message, it was easy. Just click on the link in the message and you are authorized to post in the designated forum.

While I'm not gonna try to refigure out what I did to sign up (for fear of accidentally undoing it), recognize there is a way, and it's not exactly obvious.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10918&Reply=10890><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Yup, they email a "Validation Key"</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Richard, <i>01/23/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote> I tried for a few years. Now i'm in. but now I don't know who I am. </blockquote> RE: Yup, they email a "Validation Key" -- Richard, 01/23/2002
I tried for a few years. Now i'm in. but now I don't know who I am.
 RE: Yup, they email a "Validation Key" -- Bob, 01/23/2002
I signed up back in early Demeber. Never got a validation key. Sign up a few days ago. nada.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10885&Reply=10885><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>fe headers for 67 mustang</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>mike  c., <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I am assembling a 427 tunnelport for my 67 fastback as a  street/strip toy....does anybody have any recomendations  for a 2''  street header  or are the Hookers' the only 2" out there?  thanks...mike c.  </blockquote> fe headers for 67 mustang -- mike c., 01/20/2002
I am assembling a 427 tunnelport for my 67 fastback as a street/strip toy....does anybody have any recomendations for a 2'' street header or are the Hookers' the only 2" out there? thanks...mike c.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10906&Reply=10885><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: fe headers for 67 mustang</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Scott Perry, <i>01/22/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Well Mike. I can offer some advice. If you use the Hooker headers, make sure NOT to use the big body FE heads. I have a 67 Fastback with a 390 FE (63Tird engine) with a C6. Using the hooker headers, it was a total nightmare installing this beast. I'd never do it again. There's company in Ashville, Oh (www.critesrestoration.com) that sells a kit that include modified engine mounts as well as a specialized header. I've never used them, however they suppose to make this task easier. I guess the Mustang/Fairlane heads have a different slant as well as horizontal bolt pattern which makes installation easier....I would not know however...I took the insane route....<br><br><br> </blockquote> RE: fe headers for 67 mustang -- Scott Perry, 01/22/2002
Well Mike. I can offer some advice. If you use the Hooker headers, make sure NOT to use the big body FE heads. I have a 67 Fastback with a 390 FE (63Tird engine) with a C6. Using the hooker headers, it was a total nightmare installing this beast. I'd never do it again. There's company in Ashville, Oh (www.critesrestoration.com) that sells a kit that include modified engine mounts as well as a specialized header. I've never used them, however they suppose to make this task easier. I guess the Mustang/Fairlane heads have a different slant as well as horizontal bolt pattern which makes installation easier....I would not know however...I took the insane route....


Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10912&Reply=10885><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: fe headers for 67 mustang</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Michael Mason, <i>01/22/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I put heddman 2" header in my 67 mustang. They are working out fine for me but I did have to do some modifications to the car and the header so they would fit. </blockquote> RE: fe headers for 67 mustang -- Michael Mason, 01/22/2002
I put heddman 2" header in my 67 mustang. They are working out fine for me but I did have to do some modifications to the car and the header so they would fit.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10919&Reply=10885><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: fe headers for 67 mustang</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Scott Perry, <i>01/23/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Hi Mike M. Did your 390 have the early Tbird style heads or the Mustang heads? I'm trying to find besides the port, valves, and bolt pattern for the manifolds, if there's acatually a difference in the size of the heads and slant between the early heads and the mustang heads.<br><br>Thanks.<br>scott<br> </blockquote> RE: fe headers for 67 mustang -- Scott Perry, 01/23/2002
Hi Mike M. Did your 390 have the early Tbird style heads or the Mustang heads? I'm trying to find besides the port, valves, and bolt pattern for the manifolds, if there's acatually a difference in the size of the heads and slant between the early heads and the mustang heads.

Thanks.
scott
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10926&Reply=10885><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: fe headers for 67 mustang</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>01/23/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>The only differences are the height of the port exit on the side of the port and the bolt pattern.  The slant is the same on all FE heads. </blockquote> RE: fe headers for 67 mustang -- Bob, 01/23/2002
The only differences are the height of the port exit on the side of the port and the bolt pattern. The slant is the same on all FE heads.
 RE: fe headers for 67 mustang -- Michael Mason, 01/23/2002
Just to add to the last post, the bolt hole pattern on the Heddman headers that I have can accomodate any FE head that was availably for the mustang. My engine is a 427 with med. riser heads so I only needed the top and bottom holes on the header flange. The other holes I welded closed before I had the headers coated.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10874&Reply=10874><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Old Ford Question</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Ron Vesterby, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>These is a bit outside the FE world, but there is a bunch of knowledge that visits this sight. I have a Y Block question and I am sure there is someone who knows the answer. We recently had a guest at our Car Club meeting who said that you could order a Y block in a 53 ford car. I do not ever remember seeing one of these. Perhaps other Ford division or trucks offered it. So the question is could you order a Y Block in a 53 Ford Car? In fact the speaker said he owned a 53 Crestline with a 272 Y block. I know the 54 Fords had a 239 OHV Y block engine as an option. Appreciate any input.  </blockquote> Old Ford Question -- Ron Vesterby, 01/20/2002
These is a bit outside the FE world, but there is a bunch of knowledge that visits this sight. I have a Y Block question and I am sure there is someone who knows the answer. We recently had a guest at our Car Club meeting who said that you could order a Y block in a 53 ford car. I do not ever remember seeing one of these. Perhaps other Ford division or trucks offered it. So the question is could you order a Y Block in a 53 Ford Car? In fact the speaker said he owned a 53 Crestline with a 272 Y block. I know the 54 Fords had a 239 OHV Y block engine as an option. Appreciate any input.
 RE: Old Ford Question -- Bob, 01/20/2002
He's fill of BS. You are right about the first y blocks being in 1954 and having 239 cubes. Mercury's first y block was in '54 also and had 256 cubes. These sizes were the same as the flat head engines used the previous year ('53). Lincoln got its first OHV engine in '52.

The 272 didn't appear until 1955.
 Y Blocks came in the 1954 Ford first year avail. -- Royce Peterson, 01/20/2002
Wrong. The 1954 Fords were the first to be equipped with Y blocks. They looked much like the 1953's but mechanically were a totally new car.

Royce Peterson
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10881&Reply=10874><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>The FE shared numerous Y-Block traits.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Since the FE was going to be built on the old Y-block production line, and budget constraints directed that much of the old Y-Block machinery would be converted to build the FE, there were numerous similarities between the Y-block and the FE.<br><br>I suspect there were multiple engine lines in the Dearborn Engine Plant, because the Y-Block would still be made in 292 guise for another five years after the FE was introduced, and I'm certain they'd be built on different lines.<br><br>The Y-Block did debut in 1954, Ford getting the 239 version, and the more spendy Merc necessarily getting an upgraded version with 256 cubes.  Sadly, this first year was marked by a massive engine recall because the lifters weren't holding up.  By the end of the year all was solved, but the Chevy Small Block of 1955 would take the hotrodding by storm, in part because of the Y-block recall, and in larger part because it was a cleverly inexpensive engine to manufacture.<br><br>Confusion with the Y-Block may arise from the fact that the Flathead ended up at 239 cubes in 1953.<br><br>If you wanna read about the development of the Y-Block from the team pespective of one of it's designers, you may wanna contact www.sae.org and request "technical paper" #540266 (266th paper of 1954).  Expect to shell out $10.00 + maybe $3.50 postage.  Within two weeks you'll be reading a xeroxed copy of the engine's paper, in the words of Ford Engineer Robert Stevenson.  I'm guessing it'll be 18 pages long (maybe 12, maybe 36, who the hell really knows) and will have some fun and revealing info.<br><br>If the birth of the 429/460 Lima motor of 1968 is more your bag, try paper 680020 entitled A New Luxury Car V-8 Engine by Ford, by Albert Martin of Ford Motor Company. Same price, 25 pages.  It talks manifolding, pistons, sand coring...you know, engineering stuff.  Claims that the Lima engine is 2-1/8" narrower than the MEL, 7/16" shorter, 2-3/8" shallower (front to rear), and 59 pounds lighter than the MEL are also made.  It goes on to briefly mention that 300 pilot-line engines were built in the Lima Engine Plant to establish that all objectives from the experimental engine were attained on the production line.  I wonder if this was done in late 1967 model cars or early 1968 cars?<br><br>MEL, FE, super-duty truck V-8 (477?, 534, etc), small-block "Fairlane" V-8 engines are also written about by it's designers.  SAE (Society of Automobile Engineers) was established in 1905 as a non-profit organization.  They're pretty cool to purchase stuff from.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> The FE shared numerous Y-Block traits. -- Dave Shoe, 01/20/2002
Since the FE was going to be built on the old Y-block production line, and budget constraints directed that much of the old Y-Block machinery would be converted to build the FE, there were numerous similarities between the Y-block and the FE.

I suspect there were multiple engine lines in the Dearborn Engine Plant, because the Y-Block would still be made in 292 guise for another five years after the FE was introduced, and I'm certain they'd be built on different lines.

The Y-Block did debut in 1954, Ford getting the 239 version, and the more spendy Merc necessarily getting an upgraded version with 256 cubes. Sadly, this first year was marked by a massive engine recall because the lifters weren't holding up. By the end of the year all was solved, but the Chevy Small Block of 1955 would take the hotrodding by storm, in part because of the Y-block recall, and in larger part because it was a cleverly inexpensive engine to manufacture.

Confusion with the Y-Block may arise from the fact that the Flathead ended up at 239 cubes in 1953.

If you wanna read about the development of the Y-Block from the team pespective of one of it's designers, you may wanna contact www.sae.org and request "technical paper" #540266 (266th paper of 1954). Expect to shell out $10.00 + maybe $3.50 postage. Within two weeks you'll be reading a xeroxed copy of the engine's paper, in the words of Ford Engineer Robert Stevenson. I'm guessing it'll be 18 pages long (maybe 12, maybe 36, who the hell really knows) and will have some fun and revealing info.

If the birth of the 429/460 Lima motor of 1968 is more your bag, try paper 680020 entitled A New Luxury Car V-8 Engine by Ford, by Albert Martin of Ford Motor Company. Same price, 25 pages. It talks manifolding, pistons, sand coring...you know, engineering stuff. Claims that the Lima engine is 2-1/8" narrower than the MEL, 7/16" shorter, 2-3/8" shallower (front to rear), and 59 pounds lighter than the MEL are also made. It goes on to briefly mention that 300 pilot-line engines were built in the Lima Engine Plant to establish that all objectives from the experimental engine were attained on the production line. I wonder if this was done in late 1967 model cars or early 1968 cars?

MEL, FE, super-duty truck V-8 (477?, 534, etc), small-block "Fairlane" V-8 engines are also written about by it's designers. SAE (Society of Automobile Engineers) was established in 1905 as a non-profit organization. They're pretty cool to purchase stuff from.

Shoe.
 Thanks Guys -- Ron Vesterby, 01/20/2002
I really appreciate all the input - very intersting info - and I feel better about my own recall

Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10864&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Stall convertor size</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>peter, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I'm about to finish my C6 in a 69' mach 1 428cj.<br>can someone recommend a stall size.<br>Engine has around 500hp fly wheel.<br>Any advise will be appreciated.<br> </blockquote> Stall convertor size -- peter, 01/19/2002
I'm about to finish my C6 in a 69' mach 1 428cj.
can someone recommend a stall size.
Engine has around 500hp fly wheel.
Any advise will be appreciated.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10866&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Rear gear ratio, cam specs, and what the car will be used for as in strip only, street/strip, or street only.  </blockquote> Need more specs -- Travis Miller, 01/20/2002
Rear gear ratio, cam specs, and what the car will be used for as in strip only, street/strip, or street only.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10867&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>peter, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Travis,<br>I'll be maintaining the factory 3.5:1 9",<br>I haven't got the cam spec's on me the engine builder has it. I'll be 80% street use and 20% stripe.<br>Can't see myself reving it over 6500.I'm running roller rockers and light weight valves, forged 0.30 pistons with factory cj rods and crank.<br>This is my first fe so I'm feeling my way.<br><br> </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- peter, 01/20/2002
Travis,
I'll be maintaining the factory 3.5:1 9",
I haven't got the cam spec's on me the engine builder has it. I'll be 80% street use and 20% stripe.
Can't see myself reving it over 6500.I'm running roller rockers and light weight valves, forged 0.30 pistons with factory cj rods and crank.
This is my first fe so I'm feeling my way.

Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10868&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>High stall convertors are needed for cars with big rumpity-rump (large duration) type cams that need to idle high.  The stock convertor usually does not have enough stall and the engine dies when the automatic trans is put in gear.  High stall convertors are also great for hard takeoffs such as on the dragstrip.  The convertor allows the engine to rev to a higher RPM before it catches and launches the car.  But all of this has a tradeoff.<br><br>If the car sees much street driving, the convertor will be slipping unless the engine operates in a range above the stall speed.  In other words the car will feel "mushy" when driving until the stall speed is reached.  A lot of people, after installing a high stall convertor in their street car, miss that old crisp feeling when the throttle is quickly opened as the car is running along at speed.  This is where planning ahead comes into place.  There are math formilas that can be used to determine lots of items on a car.  One is MPH vs RPM vs gear ratio vs tire diameter.  This and other good math formulas can be found at www.prestage.com in the car math section.  They have a simply fill in the blanks format for the formulas.<br><br>Using the example posted in this thread, 3.50 gears with 26 inch tall tires at 60 MPH calculates to 2714 RPMs.  That means if you install a 3500 convertor, at 60 MPH the convertor would pull the car but it would still be trying to slip, hence the "mushy" feeling.  Around town you do not drive 60 MPH on the side streets.  High stall convertors are for the dragstrip unless you want to run a very low rear gear and keep  the engine at higher revs all the time.  In that case, do not plan on a very long road trip.          </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- Travis Miller, 01/20/2002
High stall convertors are needed for cars with big rumpity-rump (large duration) type cams that need to idle high. The stock convertor usually does not have enough stall and the engine dies when the automatic trans is put in gear. High stall convertors are also great for hard takeoffs such as on the dragstrip. The convertor allows the engine to rev to a higher RPM before it catches and launches the car. But all of this has a tradeoff.

If the car sees much street driving, the convertor will be slipping unless the engine operates in a range above the stall speed. In other words the car will feel "mushy" when driving until the stall speed is reached. A lot of people, after installing a high stall convertor in their street car, miss that old crisp feeling when the throttle is quickly opened as the car is running along at speed. This is where planning ahead comes into place. There are math formilas that can be used to determine lots of items on a car. One is MPH vs RPM vs gear ratio vs tire diameter. This and other good math formulas can be found at www.prestage.com in the car math section. They have a simply fill in the blanks format for the formulas.

Using the example posted in this thread, 3.50 gears with 26 inch tall tires at 60 MPH calculates to 2714 RPMs. That means if you install a 3500 convertor, at 60 MPH the convertor would pull the car but it would still be trying to slip, hence the "mushy" feeling. Around town you do not drive 60 MPH on the side streets. High stall convertors are for the dragstrip unless you want to run a very low rear gear and keep the engine at higher revs all the time. In that case, do not plan on a very long road trip.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10869&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Travis' advice is all right on  the mark.  But if you still think you want a higher stall convertor, fgo with a mild one, i.e., 2,500 stall.   I ran one like this from TCI.  I can't remember for sure what their marketing hype name was but I think it was street dominator.  I ran it with a 428CJ essentially stock except for a Schneider solid cam with specs similar to the 306/500 Ford 427 cam.  I ran various intakes/carbs and gear ratios from 3.50 like yours up to 4.56.  Yes, the 4.56 & C6 combination was miserable on the street.   I finally settled on 3.89s which I really liked for all around driving.  I didn't take too many road trips but a few.  But about the convertor,  it worked very well.  It would stall right at 2,600 and launch the 3,840 lb. Starliner nice off the line with 28" tall tires.  It was probably worth a couple of tenths.   But I had run this exact engine in a '66 Cyclone with a stock 428CJ convertor and it was so much more fun on the street with that stocker.<br><br>So I guess I'd say that if your cam is not too radical, go with a stocker.   It's up to you. </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- Mike McQuesten, 01/20/2002
Travis' advice is all right on the mark. But if you still think you want a higher stall convertor, fgo with a mild one, i.e., 2,500 stall. I ran one like this from TCI. I can't remember for sure what their marketing hype name was but I think it was street dominator. I ran it with a 428CJ essentially stock except for a Schneider solid cam with specs similar to the 306/500 Ford 427 cam. I ran various intakes/carbs and gear ratios from 3.50 like yours up to 4.56. Yes, the 4.56 & C6 combination was miserable on the street. I finally settled on 3.89s which I really liked for all around driving. I didn't take too many road trips but a few. But about the convertor, it worked very well. It would stall right at 2,600 and launch the 3,840 lb. Starliner nice off the line with 28" tall tires. It was probably worth a couple of tenths. But I had run this exact engine in a '66 Cyclone with a stock 428CJ convertor and it was so much more fun on the street with that stocker.

So I guess I'd say that if your cam is not too radical, go with a stocker. It's up to you.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10872&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>peter, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks  travis / mike for the explaining the working of a stall.<br>Sounds like i have some thinking to do. I like the idea of 2500 - 3000 stall. I have a 3.9 rear end as a spare. I can always change back to stock if I don't like the set-up.<br>Mike did the stock converter work in the 66 because it is heavier car? </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- peter, 01/20/2002
Thanks travis / mike for the explaining the working of a stall.
Sounds like i have some thinking to do. I like the idea of 2500 - 3000 stall. I have a 3.9 rear end as a spare. I can always change back to stock if I don't like the set-up.
Mike did the stock converter work in the 66 because it is heavier car?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10873&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>No, the '66 Cyclone was lighter.  It was an original S code car and it weighed in at 3560 lbs. w/C6/428 & aluminum PI intake.   I ran a couple of different cams in that car before transferring it to the '61 Starliner.   All four cams I ran in the CJ were reasonably mild.   All were decent on the street and worked okay on the strip.  <br><br>I'd just say one more time that I think you'd be happier with the stock convertor especially with the 3.9 gears.  The 3.5s are great all around.  That's what I run in my '68 F100 w/390GT.   I take trips in it quite often and the 3.50s are easy to live with at 70-75 mph.   The 3.89s weren't annoying to me but may be to some.   Years ago I lived regularly with 4.11s/4 speed/built 289.  Of course, fuel consumption didn't matter to me then either.  </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- Mike McQuesten, 01/20/2002
No, the '66 Cyclone was lighter. It was an original S code car and it weighed in at 3560 lbs. w/C6/428 & aluminum PI intake. I ran a couple of different cams in that car before transferring it to the '61 Starliner. All four cams I ran in the CJ were reasonably mild. All were decent on the street and worked okay on the strip.

I'd just say one more time that I think you'd be happier with the stock convertor especially with the 3.9 gears. The 3.5s are great all around. That's what I run in my '68 F100 w/390GT. I take trips in it quite often and the 3.50s are easy to live with at 70-75 mph. The 3.89s weren't annoying to me but may be to some. Years ago I lived regularly with 4.11s/4 speed/built 289. Of course, fuel consumption didn't matter to me then either.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10888&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>peter, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Mike,<br>Sounds good if I don't have to use a stall then that is all the better. I will just get it checked out before installing. My mach 1 is going to be stock original except for the extra horse power that is all i wanted to change from stock...........<br>Thanks Mate! you seem to have alot of experience with the Mighty Ford Power plants......<br>Regards<br>Peter. </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- peter, 01/21/2002
Mike,
Sounds good if I don't have to use a stall then that is all the better. I will just get it checked out before installing. My mach 1 is going to be stock original except for the extra horse power that is all i wanted to change from stock...........
Thanks Mate! you seem to have alot of experience with the Mighty Ford Power plants......
Regards
Peter.
 RE: just one more time -- Mike McQuesten, 01/21/2002
Travis had it right in that it depends on that cam your builder is installing. If it's a cam with fairly radical specs, i.e., over 230 degrees duration at .050, you may want to consider a higher street stall based on what Travis explained.

And thanks, I'm just a tinkerer who has to rely on lots of people for help. Some of that help has been immensely beneficial, such as what I continue to learn from this forum. I just keep and open mind and do some research before making bad decisions. Which I've done too many times.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10908&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Need more specs</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Kane, <i>01/22/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Hi there Mike,<br>I just found this forum 10 minutes ago.  Good info.  I've been building a '64 Galaxie Fastback for last 8 years.  Bought it with 352 and Cruiso, 3.00 gears.  I've now built a 428 CJ stock bottom end and ported big valve heads w/ Dove single plane and Comp Cams 282 solid stick.  Art Carr C6 w/ 2500 RPM stall. Hurst ratchet shifter.  Rearend: 3.50 Ltd slip.  Car has Crites Resto glass hood, fenders, ft bumper.   Interior stock except gages and buckets.  I'm kinda stuck on the trans mount.  You say you put a 428 and C6 in a 61 Starliner...What did you do for a trans cross member?  The frame mounts on my 64 are too far forward for the C6.  Did you move them, or add new ones further back, or build a funky cross member?Thanks for the feedback. </blockquote> RE: Need more specs -- Kane, 01/22/2002
Hi there Mike,
I just found this forum 10 minutes ago. Good info. I've been building a '64 Galaxie Fastback for last 8 years. Bought it with 352 and Cruiso, 3.00 gears. I've now built a 428 CJ stock bottom end and ported big valve heads w/ Dove single plane and Comp Cams 282 solid stick. Art Carr C6 w/ 2500 RPM stall. Hurst ratchet shifter. Rearend: 3.50 Ltd slip. Car has Crites Resto glass hood, fenders, ft bumper. Interior stock except gages and buckets. I'm kinda stuck on the trans mount. You say you put a 428 and C6 in a 61 Starliner...What did you do for a trans cross member? The frame mounts on my 64 are too far forward for the C6. Did you move them, or add new ones further back, or build a funky cross member?Thanks for the feedback.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10921&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: cross member</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/23/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Your car sounds very similar to how I had my '61 built.  I even had the Crites T--bolt style hood and fiberglass bumpers too.<br><br>On that cross member - I used one from a '65 full size Mercury.  Just happened to have a '65 Marauder 4 door parts hulk on the back acre.  I "think" the cross members of '65 Mercs and Fords are the same.  I just got lucky having that big Merc handy.  I'm going from memory on this so bare with me...it seems that we drilled a new  1/2" hole at each end of the cross member.  Then the cross member aligned perfectly with the back hole of the two that are on the Galaxie frame mounts.  I just used the '65 & up automatic transmission pad/mount to the cross member.   It was all very simple.   And as I indicated, I only used one bolt/nut mounting the cross member to the Galaxie frame mounts.  But it worked well. Drove it a lot on streets, highways and drag strip.   Had to have a custom driveshaft made.  That's easy if you measure correctly - with the car's weight on the wheels.  Talk to your driveshaft specialist, he'll give you specific directions on this.<br><br>Again, your '64 sounds like it will be very streetable and it should easily run 13's.   </blockquote> RE: cross member -- Mike McQuesten, 01/23/2002
Your car sounds very similar to how I had my '61 built. I even had the Crites T--bolt style hood and fiberglass bumpers too.

On that cross member - I used one from a '65 full size Mercury. Just happened to have a '65 Marauder 4 door parts hulk on the back acre. I "think" the cross members of '65 Mercs and Fords are the same. I just got lucky having that big Merc handy. I'm going from memory on this so bare with me...it seems that we drilled a new 1/2" hole at each end of the cross member. Then the cross member aligned perfectly with the back hole of the two that are on the Galaxie frame mounts. I just used the '65 & up automatic transmission pad/mount to the cross member. It was all very simple. And as I indicated, I only used one bolt/nut mounting the cross member to the Galaxie frame mounts. But it worked well. Drove it a lot on streets, highways and drag strip. Had to have a custom driveshaft made. That's easy if you measure correctly - with the car's weight on the wheels. Talk to your driveshaft specialist, he'll give you specific directions on this.

Again, your '64 sounds like it will be very streetable and it should easily run 13's.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10923&Reply=10864><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: cross member -one more thing</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/23/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Kane, I was just thinking, a dangerous process for me,  but I think I had to cut/narrow that Merc cross member.<br><br>I still have the Merc cross member I used in my shop at home.  I'm not there right now.  But tonight I will  measure it and eye ball it to refresh my memory.  When I converted to the 4 speed I kept the entire "system" together.   So I'll post a new post to you with what I find.<br><br>C6 in an old Galaxie is an easy do. </blockquote> RE: cross member -one more thing -- Mike McQuesten, 01/23/2002
Kane, I was just thinking, a dangerous process for me, but I think I had to cut/narrow that Merc cross member.

I still have the Merc cross member I used in my shop at home. I'm not there right now. But tonight I will measure it and eye ball it to refresh my memory. When I converted to the 4 speed I kept the entire "system" together. So I'll post a new post to you with what I find.

C6 in an old Galaxie is an easy do.
 RE: cross member -one more thing -- Kane, 01/23/2002
Thanks for the prompt reply with very valuable info Mike. I'm going looking for a 65 X-member immediately. Bye the way, I'm planning to road race my Galaxie in the Nevada Silver State Classic this next September. I'm setting the car up like an old stock car racer.
Thanks again.
Kane
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10858&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Greg, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>  I just bought a new distributor for the '69 428 cj.<br>The new one won't work.  I went back and retrieved the core, and found that the oil pump drive shaft hole in the old dist is .90 in. deeper than the new one. this won't let the dist seat at all.  Has ANYONE ever seen this before?  I'm assuming I'll have to drill the new one to the same depth.  Any input would be beneficial at this point.<br>  Greg<br> </blockquote> Dist shaft differences -- Greg, 01/19/2002
I just bought a new distributor for the '69 428 cj.
The new one won't work. I went back and retrieved the core, and found that the oil pump drive shaft hole in the old dist is .90 in. deeper than the new one. this won't let the dist seat at all. Has ANYONE ever seen this before? I'm assuming I'll have to drill the new one to the same depth. Any input would be beneficial at this point.
Greg
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10859&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>What are the distributor numbers?<br><br>And no, never heard of this! </blockquote> RE: Dist shaft differences -- Bob, 01/19/2002
What are the distributor numbers?

And no, never heard of this!
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10861&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Greg, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>  The old one was/is a c7af-AA and the new one is c7tf-D.  <br> </blockquote> RE: Dist shaft differences -- Greg, 01/19/2002
The old one was/is a c7af-AA and the new one is c7tf-D.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10862&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I beleive the new one is off a 361 or 391 heavy duty truck.  The truck shafts are bigger in diameter and won't fit in the standard FE blocks.  The heavy duty truck blocks are called FT blocks.<br><br>The second letter in the number is the clue.  The A is for cars and the T is for Trucks </blockquote> RE: Dist shaft differences -- Bob, 01/19/2002
I beleive the new one is off a 361 or 391 heavy duty truck. The truck shafts are bigger in diameter and won't fit in the standard FE blocks. The heavy duty truck blocks are called FT blocks.

The second letter in the number is the clue. The A is for cars and the T is for Trucks
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10863&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Greg, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>  Do you mean the interior diameter of the drive rod hole?  the drive shaft fits both equally well. only the depth is different.  Therein may lie the trouble.<br>  Thanks so far.<br>  Greg<br><br> </blockquote> RE: Dist shaft differences -- Greg, 01/19/2002
Do you mean the interior diameter of the drive rod hole? the drive shaft fits both equally well. only the depth is different. Therein may lie the trouble.
Thanks so far.
Greg

Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10865&Reply=10858><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Dist shaft differences</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Bob, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I meant shaft diameter and the oil pump drive shaft is larger as well.  So yours is probably off a regular 360.  And again I never heard of them having a diiferent depth for the drive shaft. </blockquote> RE: Dist shaft differences -- Bob, 01/19/2002
I meant shaft diameter and the oil pump drive shaft is larger as well. So yours is probably off a regular 360. And again I never heard of them having a diiferent depth for the drive shaft.
 You won't believe this...or maybe you will. -- Greg, 01/20/2002
The "new" dist. was full of crud. An off the shelf rebuild had so much hardened crud in it that it appeared to be too shallow. It took a drill press to get it all out. Lesson learned.
Thanks
Greg
 The block casting numbers are -- John M. Sutton, 01/19/2002
Under the oil filter:
E
RE10

Then, under a boss off the block, a stamped 6.

On the left side is a square aluminum serial number tag affixed to the block. This tag says:
SN xxxx RM5

Additionally, there are 3 threaded holes on the block skirts (both sides), about where crossbolts should be if it is a 427, but they are just threaded holes.
Currently, the engine mounts are only 2 bolt from the 390 originally ion the vehicle, but there are 2 additional threaded holes for the engine mount, if it were larger.Before I out the engine in, I checked the rod bearings for wear, and they were marked Ford (script) at .010.
I haven't rechecked the stroke yet, got too many other honey-do things to do.
Is this enough to pin down the identity of this block?
Thanks in advance!
John M. Sutton
banjopicker66@hotmail.com

Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10856&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>FE C-6 Question</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dangerous Don, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>My 62 Gal 500 is proud recipient of a 68' 390. In a rush to get her back on the street I kept the 62' Cruis-o-matic behind it. I have the FMX that came from the same donor car. Question is - If I do the mods, cross member, drive shaft, kickdown, etc..., will a C6 work with the same mods? Will the C6 mounts on the cross member match the FMX mounts ? Thanks in advance for a non-motor answer. </blockquote> FE C-6 Question -- Dangerous Don, 01/19/2002
My 62 Gal 500 is proud recipient of a 68' 390. In a rush to get her back on the street I kept the 62' Cruis-o-matic behind it. I have the FMX that came from the same donor car. Question is - If I do the mods, cross member, drive shaft, kickdown, etc..., will a C6 work with the same mods? Will the C6 mounts on the cross member match the FMX mounts ? Thanks in advance for a non-motor answer.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10860&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: FE C-6 Question</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/19/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I don't understand your question here Don.  If you have the automatic transmission from a '68 390 donor car, you should have a C-6.   The FMX was not used behind a FE engine after '66.   <br><br>But I will tell you that  a C6 fits very nicely in your '62 Galaxie.   I did the same thing to a '61 a number of years ago and I was able to maintain the original column shift control.  Just had to extend the shift rod about 4 - 5" that was from the original cruiso shift lever on the transmission.  I cut the cruiso trans shift rod and welded in a piece so that the piece with the flat side could still be used at the steering column for adjustment.  Easy to do.    Then I was able to adapt the '61 bell crank kick down control to the C-6.  Again, easy to do.  If I can do this stuff.....it's easy.   <br><br>What else, oh, I used a '65 Mercury trans cross memeber.   I was able to bolt it to the mounts on the '61 Frame.  I could only use one bolt/nut per side but it held without any problems.  And I was running a 428CJ with R code C6, a hard shift kit & TCI convertor.   I also used a couple of 1/4" steel strips for shims at the trans. mount to obtain the proper angle of the engine/trans. <br><br>All of this was so easy to do.  The '61 Starliner looked like a stocker with a cruiso.   My sons and I would load the cooler and drive it to the strip with our jack/M & H street slicks in the trunk(nice roomy trunk).  Uncork the dump plugs from the shorty HP exhaust manifolds.  Then lay down 13.7 consistent e.t.s  @ 102 mph.  It ran as well as the stock '69 Fairlane Cobra I once had reasonably free access to.....31 years ago.  <br><br>The C6 mod is a definite good thing to do. </blockquote> RE: FE C-6 Question -- Mike McQuesten, 01/19/2002
I don't understand your question here Don. If you have the automatic transmission from a '68 390 donor car, you should have a C-6. The FMX was not used behind a FE engine after '66.

But I will tell you that a C6 fits very nicely in your '62 Galaxie. I did the same thing to a '61 a number of years ago and I was able to maintain the original column shift control. Just had to extend the shift rod about 4 - 5" that was from the original cruiso shift lever on the transmission. I cut the cruiso trans shift rod and welded in a piece so that the piece with the flat side could still be used at the steering column for adjustment. Easy to do. Then I was able to adapt the '61 bell crank kick down control to the C-6. Again, easy to do. If I can do this stuff.....it's easy.

What else, oh, I used a '65 Mercury trans cross memeber. I was able to bolt it to the mounts on the '61 Frame. I could only use one bolt/nut per side but it held without any problems. And I was running a 428CJ with R code C6, a hard shift kit & TCI convertor. I also used a couple of 1/4" steel strips for shims at the trans. mount to obtain the proper angle of the engine/trans.

All of this was so easy to do. The '61 Starliner looked like a stocker with a cruiso. My sons and I would load the cooler and drive it to the strip with our jack/M & H street slicks in the trunk(nice roomy trunk). Uncork the dump plugs from the shorty HP exhaust manifolds. Then lay down 13.7 consistent e.t.s @ 102 mph. It ran as well as the stock '69 Fairlane Cobra I once had reasonably free access to.....31 years ago.

The C6 mod is a definite good thing to do.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10871&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: FE C-6 Question</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dangerous Don, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks Mike! I sure wish the donor 68 Gal 500 had the C6 but no, it's for sure FMX and the car #s show it to be original. So, real question. Is the x member mount holes on an FMX same as C6? I hate to mod for FMX now and again later on when I find a good C6 to put in. And if they are different I may just hold for that C6. </blockquote> RE: FE C-6 Question -- Dangerous Don, 01/20/2002
Thanks Mike! I sure wish the donor 68 Gal 500 had the C6 but no, it's for sure FMX and the car #s show it to be original. So, real question. Is the x member mount holes on an FMX same as C6? I hate to mod for FMX now and again later on when I find a good C6 to put in. And if they are different I may just hold for that C6.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10875&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE:Really?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>That's amazing!   I know FMXs were installed behind 351Ws in '69 and later.   But  I have never seen an FE backed by a cruisomatic/FMX after 1966.   I need some corroberting(I'm not sure I know what that word means and I'm sure it's misspelled but I think I heard it on Perry Mason?) evidence here Dangerous Don that you've got a '68 FE FMX.    Now I just reread your most recent post for the third time....did you get the 390 that's now in your '62 from the same '68 that is the donor of the FMX?<br><br>Help me out here guys.  Am I about to be "learned" again?  An FMX backing a FE?    </blockquote> RE:Really? -- Mike McQuesten, 01/20/2002
That's amazing! I know FMXs were installed behind 351Ws in '69 and later. But I have never seen an FE backed by a cruisomatic/FMX after 1966. I need some corroberting(I'm not sure I know what that word means and I'm sure it's misspelled but I think I heard it on Perry Mason?) evidence here Dangerous Don that you've got a '68 FE FMX. Now I just reread your most recent post for the third time....did you get the 390 that's now in your '62 from the same '68 that is the donor of the FMX?

Help me out here guys. Am I about to be "learned" again? An FMX backing a FE?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10876&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE:67 Galaxie FE/FMX</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>SDP, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Mike, I too had a "post 66" FE/FMX combo that was an "untouched" car. A few years back I bought a 67 Country Sedan 6 pass. Wagon from the original owner. It had a 390 2V/FMX trans in it. I have read and been told by an old heavy line Fomoco mechanic  that Fomoco used the FMX behind the FE in heavy vehicle applications through 68 cause of suspected strength issues with the C6. My old man had a 67 F250 2WD 360 with a FMX in it as well. I think by 69 the C6 had totally replaced the FMX behind FE's in cars and trucks........................................... </blockquote> RE:67 Galaxie FE/FMX -- SDP, 01/20/2002
Mike, I too had a "post 66" FE/FMX combo that was an "untouched" car. A few years back I bought a 67 Country Sedan 6 pass. Wagon from the original owner. It had a 390 2V/FMX trans in it. I have read and been told by an old heavy line Fomoco mechanic that Fomoco used the FMX behind the FE in heavy vehicle applications through 68 cause of suspected strength issues with the C6. My old man had a 67 F250 2WD 360 with a FMX in it as well. I think by 69 the C6 had totally replaced the FMX behind FE's in cars and trucks...........................................
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10879&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE:You're right!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>You motivated me to go grab one of my "sources".  A '67  Full Size Ford/Merc shop manual.  And there it is in Section 7, page 63.  A list of apps. for the FX-MX transmission:  all low po engines including the 390-2V with column shift application only.  Go to the C-6 section, p. 94, and it shows all the apps being FE only starting with a 390-2V and going through them all, 2Vs/4Vs/410s/428s/column and floor shift.<br><br>So thanks Dangerous and SDP for another dose of humility.   But let me disagree with you SDP with regard to your old mechanics theory that there may have been strength issues with the C6.   That doesn't seem logical based on the applications of the C6.   First the '66 390GTA and 428PI.   My theory is that there was a large inventory of cruisomatics and the trans engineers redesigned the cruiso  valve body that allowed for the same shift modes as the C6.  Just a bean counter thing.   <br><br>"We've got how many of those Cruisomatics?!  Isn't there someway we can use 'em up?"<br><br>Thanks again guys.  I'm just  sitting here in awe at how much I have yet to learn.   Don, go find a C6 and don't waste time installing that '68 FE FMX(cruiso without a green dot).<br> </blockquote> RE:You're right! -- Mike McQuesten, 01/20/2002
You motivated me to go grab one of my "sources". A '67 Full Size Ford/Merc shop manual. And there it is in Section 7, page 63. A list of apps. for the FX-MX transmission: all low po engines including the 390-2V with column shift application only. Go to the C-6 section, p. 94, and it shows all the apps being FE only starting with a 390-2V and going through them all, 2Vs/4Vs/410s/428s/column and floor shift.

So thanks Dangerous and SDP for another dose of humility. But let me disagree with you SDP with regard to your old mechanics theory that there may have been strength issues with the C6. That doesn't seem logical based on the applications of the C6. First the '66 390GTA and 428PI. My theory is that there was a large inventory of cruisomatics and the trans engineers redesigned the cruiso valve body that allowed for the same shift modes as the C6. Just a bean counter thing.

"We've got how many of those Cruisomatics?! Isn't there someway we can use 'em up?"

Thanks again guys. I'm just sitting here in awe at how much I have yet to learn. Don, go find a C6 and don't waste time installing that '68 FE FMX(cruiso without a green dot).
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10880&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE:You're right!</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>SDP, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Mike, I agree with you on the bean counters theory. My friend "the ole mechanic" told me he changed out(for warranty purposes) more than his fair share of C6's in late 66 on through 67. He told me Ford wanted the C6's back as a complete units for inspection. Like anything new to the market, Ford was bound to have some troubles with their new "baby". But like you said, Ford most likely had a boat load of FMX's lying around so they had to use em up. I wanted to compliment you Mike on the 61 you were talking about that you use to take out to the track. Thats a good running street car. Do you not have it anymore? </blockquote> RE:You're right! -- SDP, 01/20/2002
Mike, I agree with you on the bean counters theory. My friend "the ole mechanic" told me he changed out(for warranty purposes) more than his fair share of C6's in late 66 on through 67. He told me Ford wanted the C6's back as a complete units for inspection. Like anything new to the market, Ford was bound to have some troubles with their new "baby". But like you said, Ford most likely had a boat load of FMX's lying around so they had to use em up. I wanted to compliment you Mike on the 61 you were talking about that you use to take out to the track. Thats a good running street car. Do you not have it anymore?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10883&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Probably production ramp-up.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>01/20/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I suspect the main reason the FMX could be found in 390 Galaxies until 1969 was due to production line ramp-up limitations.<br><br>The FX and MX were proven out, the new FMX was just a tweak of the the earlier designs and was readily produced in qualtity.  The C6 would undergo a significant change in mid-1966, and also the significant "Select-Shift" upgrade (from the old Dual Drive algo) in 1967.<br><br>Specifying both FMX and C6 trannys for use behind the very common 390-2V engines in Galaxies allowed some flexibility in the production of the two trannies.  Clearly, Ford considered the C6 the stronger transmission, but they also had proven reliability in the FX/MX/FMX tranny.<br><br>One thing to note is the Cruise-O-Matic tranny was the same as the FX/MX/FMX/CW tranny.  I suspect the FMX will bolt right into the FX position without much in the line of mods.  I haven't yet learned the specific differences between the different Cruise-O-Matics, but they are all based on the Borg Warner design Ford commissioned in 1951 and converted to a Cruise_O-Matic (FX) in 1958, and I suspect mounting points and linkages will be minimally different between the variations.<br><br>Note also that "FMX" is a general term which is frequently used to describe FX and MX trannies.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Probably production ramp-up. -- Dave Shoe, 01/20/2002
I suspect the main reason the FMX could be found in 390 Galaxies until 1969 was due to production line ramp-up limitations.

The FX and MX were proven out, the new FMX was just a tweak of the the earlier designs and was readily produced in qualtity. The C6 would undergo a significant change in mid-1966, and also the significant "Select-Shift" upgrade (from the old Dual Drive algo) in 1967.

Specifying both FMX and C6 trannys for use behind the very common 390-2V engines in Galaxies allowed some flexibility in the production of the two trannies. Clearly, Ford considered the C6 the stronger transmission, but they also had proven reliability in the FX/MX/FMX tranny.

One thing to note is the Cruise-O-Matic tranny was the same as the FX/MX/FMX/CW tranny. I suspect the FMX will bolt right into the FX position without much in the line of mods. I haven't yet learned the specific differences between the different Cruise-O-Matics, but they are all based on the Borg Warner design Ford commissioned in 1951 and converted to a Cruise_O-Matic (FX) in 1958, and I suspect mounting points and linkages will be minimally different between the variations.

Note also that "FMX" is a general term which is frequently used to describe FX and MX trannies.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10886&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Probably production ramp-up.</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dangerous Don, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Mike, your old 61 sounds real sweet. Thats the kind of hauling ass I dream of. I built the 390 mild with a .030 over w/flattops, Performer cam and intake, & Holley 600. Ignition upgades in the works and headers coming soon too. It will get groceries OK. I know the C6 is a must for some serious launching though.<br> I wish the FMX would be  a simple bolt up. However, I did install the FMX to check how much work needed to be done and the mounts are way off on my 62" x member. The linkage also needed mods just as Mike described. Looked easy enough though. I'm not sure much longer the cruis-o will hold out. I'm in search of a C6. Not sure how to detect a good C6 unless I find one in a running car. I did notice that TCI sells a Street Fighter C6 for $729. Is it worth it? </blockquote> RE: Probably production ramp-up. -- Dangerous Don, 01/21/2002
Mike, your old 61 sounds real sweet. Thats the kind of hauling ass I dream of. I built the 390 mild with a .030 over w/flattops, Performer cam and intake, & Holley 600. Ignition upgades in the works and headers coming soon too. It will get groceries OK. I know the C6 is a must for some serious launching though.
I wish the FMX would be a simple bolt up. However, I did install the FMX to check how much work needed to be done and the mounts are way off on my 62" x member. The linkage also needed mods just as Mike described. Looked easy enough though. I'm not sure much longer the cruis-o will hold out. I'm in search of a C6. Not sure how to detect a good C6 unless I find one in a running car. I did notice that TCI sells a Street Fighter C6 for $729. Is it worth it?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10887&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Street fighting Galaxies</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Mike McQuesten, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Whoa, that seems like a chunk a change for a street/strip(Street Fighter?) convertor.  The one I ran was just one of those 11" rebuilds that all the convertor companies market.  It was under $300 but it was 12 years ago.<br>Great and obviously new  information to me  on the FE -  FX-MX Dave.  <br><br>No I don't own the '61 'liner anymore.  But a good friend and very knowledgable fellow FE fan, John Saxon does.  John loaned me his '64 427 when I got into changing to a top loader 4 speed for the Galaxie.  Just felt the need to stir gears with a Hurst on the floor.  I told you John is a good friend. The 428CJ was sold and the switch was made.  The original 292/cruiso '61 looked kinda like a '61 HP 390/401.   It was a lot of fun but I could only muster a 14.0/101 mph. with the stock 427. Still not bad with exhaust manifolds/street tires/power steering! and 3.89s and 3,800 lbs.  John has it in good shape.  He has installed '63 long HP exhaust and a very rare Holman-Moody single 4 intake.  We've never seen another intake like this.   We think it's circa 1965.  Dual plane, medium riser look but with the H & M logo. <br><br>When the snow melts, the local strip opens, John is planning to get the warrior back on the strip.  Part of the deal when I let him have it was that I'd still have a few chances......remember John?  </blockquote> RE: Street fighting Galaxies -- Mike McQuesten, 01/21/2002
Whoa, that seems like a chunk a change for a street/strip(Street Fighter?) convertor. The one I ran was just one of those 11" rebuilds that all the convertor companies market. It was under $300 but it was 12 years ago.
Great and obviously new information to me on the FE - FX-MX Dave.

No I don't own the '61 'liner anymore. But a good friend and very knowledgable fellow FE fan, John Saxon does. John loaned me his '64 427 when I got into changing to a top loader 4 speed for the Galaxie. Just felt the need to stir gears with a Hurst on the floor. I told you John is a good friend. The 428CJ was sold and the switch was made. The original 292/cruiso '61 looked kinda like a '61 HP 390/401. It was a lot of fun but I could only muster a 14.0/101 mph. with the stock 427. Still not bad with exhaust manifolds/street tires/power steering! and 3.89s and 3,800 lbs. John has it in good shape. He has installed '63 long HP exhaust and a very rare Holman-Moody single 4 intake. We've never seen another intake like this. We think it's circa 1965. Dual plane, medium riser look but with the H & M logo.

When the snow melts, the local strip opens, John is planning to get the warrior back on the strip. Part of the deal when I let him have it was that I'd still have a few chances......remember John?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10889&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Street fighting Galaxies</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dangerous Don, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Thanks Mike! That $729 is for a TCI built C6 trans not just a convertor. Has anyone out there tried a TCI C6? Is this way too much cash for a guranteed C6 that is prepp'd to handle strip launches? </blockquote> RE: Street fighting Galaxies -- Dangerous Don, 01/21/2002
Thanks Mike! That $729 is for a TCI built C6 trans not just a convertor. Has anyone out there tried a TCI C6? Is this way too much cash for a guranteed C6 that is prepp'd to handle strip launches?
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10891&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Tips on old style cruiseomatic</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Travis Miller, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I ran one of these trans in my '61 big body sedan behind a stock '63 390-300 with a 428CJ cam and a tri-power.  The car had 4.11 gears with 31 spline traction-loc.  With street tires the 4000 lb car ran 14.81 in the 1/4 and 9.01 in the 1/8.  Never had any trouble with non-rebuilt cruiseomatic but I learned a few tips that I will pass along.<br><br>No one makes a high stall convertor for the <br>cast iron cruiseomatic.  However they are made for the FMX.  You must use the small block style convertor with a spacer ring in the back of crankshart in order to allow the snout of the convertor to fit an FE.  You also have to use the FMX front pump but it bolts right on the cast iron cruiseomatic with no problem.  <br><br>While the cast iron cruiseomatic will take anything you can throw at it, there is one weak point.  It will break in the center main web if pulled into gear at too high an idle speed.  To get max performance out of the trans, a few tips are as follow.  Start off in drive and as soon as car moves pull shifter in low gear.  It will improve et by almost one tenth by doing this instead of starting off in low position on shifter.  Hold shifter in low position til max RPMs and put shifter back up in Drive.  This allows shift to second.  Immediately pull shifter back in low position in order to hold trans in second gear.  Again at max RPM put shifter back in drive for shift to high gear.  This technique works good but in order to be sure of not overrevving the engine you must be quick when moving the shifter.  I advise trying it at lower RPMs until you get the hang of it.  For those without a tach, the speedometer will work as a guage to find the shift points.       </blockquote> Tips on old style cruiseomatic -- Travis Miller, 01/21/2002
I ran one of these trans in my '61 big body sedan behind a stock '63 390-300 with a 428CJ cam and a tri-power. The car had 4.11 gears with 31 spline traction-loc. With street tires the 4000 lb car ran 14.81 in the 1/4 and 9.01 in the 1/8. Never had any trouble with non-rebuilt cruiseomatic but I learned a few tips that I will pass along.

No one makes a high stall convertor for the
cast iron cruiseomatic. However they are made for the FMX. You must use the small block style convertor with a spacer ring in the back of crankshart in order to allow the snout of the convertor to fit an FE. You also have to use the FMX front pump but it bolts right on the cast iron cruiseomatic with no problem.

While the cast iron cruiseomatic will take anything you can throw at it, there is one weak point. It will break in the center main web if pulled into gear at too high an idle speed. To get max performance out of the trans, a few tips are as follow. Start off in drive and as soon as car moves pull shifter in low gear. It will improve et by almost one tenth by doing this instead of starting off in low position on shifter. Hold shifter in low position til max RPMs and put shifter back up in Drive. This allows shift to second. Immediately pull shifter back in low position in order to hold trans in second gear. Again at max RPM put shifter back in drive for shift to high gear. This technique works good but in order to be sure of not overrevving the engine you must be quick when moving the shifter. I advise trying it at lower RPMs until you get the hang of it. For those without a tach, the speedometer will work as a guage to find the shift points.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10892&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Tips on old style cruiseomatic</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Tom, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>wahts weird is i say a 68 galaxie in the junk yard witha a FMX and my moms 68 with a 302 has a FMX with POSI gears go figure </blockquote> RE: Tips on old style cruiseomatic -- Tom, 01/21/2002
wahts weird is i say a 68 galaxie in the junk yard witha a FMX and my moms 68 with a 302 has a FMX with POSI gears go figure
 RE: Double low shiftin' -- Mike McQuesten, 01/21/2002
You bring back some fond memories Travis of my "double lowing" my mom's '64 XL Convert/390-4V. That shifting technique you describe to maintain second gear in a cruiso still works well with a AOD. I have a '86 'bird 5.0/AOD as my daily driver. It's just a little dog that I maintain and is very reliable. Ridiculously high geared with 2.75s and this AOD I mentioned. But when I have the rare opportunity to want to wind the weak little 302 a little, I just do the same ol'double low trick learned many years ago. Those stock AODs are terrible for upshifting way too soon.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10897&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruiso?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>Dave Shoe, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>I've seen where the FX and MX Cruiseomatic are referred to as "cast iron" Cruisomatics, and I assume the FMX  and CW Cruisomatics also carry the "cast iron" nickname.<br><br>Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruisomatic?<br><br>Also, keep in mind that the shift pattern for all Ford 3-speed automatics changed from Dual-Drive (PRND21) to Select-Shift (PRN21L) at the start of 1967.  Having noted this, I believe I have heard of the manual-shift methods you described, but they were in reference to the 3 speed cast iron Fordomatics (PRNDL) of 1951-1958 (not the the 2-speed aluminum Fordomatic of 1959-1963 which was an all-new cheapo precursor to the C4).  Since the Cruisomatic was based on the cast iron Fordomatic of 1951-58, perhaps you are referring to the tranny of this earlier period?  Cruisomatics first showed up in 1958.<br><br>Shoe. </blockquote> Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruiso? -- Dave Shoe, 01/21/2002
I've seen where the FX and MX Cruiseomatic are referred to as "cast iron" Cruisomatics, and I assume the FMX and CW Cruisomatics also carry the "cast iron" nickname.

Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruisomatic?

Also, keep in mind that the shift pattern for all Ford 3-speed automatics changed from Dual-Drive (PRND21) to Select-Shift (PRN21L) at the start of 1967. Having noted this, I believe I have heard of the manual-shift methods you described, but they were in reference to the 3 speed cast iron Fordomatics (PRNDL) of 1951-1958 (not the the 2-speed aluminum Fordomatic of 1959-1963 which was an all-new cheapo precursor to the C4). Since the Cruisomatic was based on the cast iron Fordomatic of 1951-58, perhaps you are referring to the tranny of this earlier period? Cruisomatics first showed up in 1958.

Shoe.
Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=10899&Reply=10856><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a>&nbsp;<b>RE: Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruiso?</b>&nbsp;-- <font color=#0000ff>John Saxon, <i>01/21/2002</i></font><br /><blockquote>Dave I think where cast iron cruiso term comes from is years ago when fordos were still around some people erroneously refered to them as cruisos also so naturally the cast iron term was added to specify the good ones.Just my theory on the confusion </blockquote> RE: Is there such a thing as a non-cast iron Cruiso? -- John Saxon, 01/21/2002
Dave I think where cast iron cruiso term comes from is years ago when fordos were still around some people erroneously refered to them as cruisos also so naturally the cast iron term was added to specify the good ones.Just my theory on the confusion
 Naming that all new alum tranny a Fordo was dumb. -- Dave Shoe, 01/21/2002
I don't know what Ford was thinking of when they named the the all new 1959 aluminum 2-speed automatic the "Fordomatic", when they cancelled the 3-speed Fordomatic at the end of 1958. These two trannies had nothing in common whith each other.

I suspect you may be correct on the origins of the distinction.

Shoe.
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