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 |  where can I get Tunnel Port intake gaskets? -- Mike Braun, 02/03/2002
Hi guys,
After a long absence it looks like I might be re-joining the FE ranks. Does anyone know where I can get 427 Tunnel Port intake gaskets?
TIA.
Mike |
|  | RE: where can I get Tunnel Port intake gaskets? -- Royce Peterson, 02/03/2002
www.perogie.com
Royce Peterson |
 | 1969 390 4v -- Pat, 02/03/2002
Hi, I have a 1969 390 4V out of a 69 Stang, I would like to know if all the pulleys and brackets and pumps are the same as the 428. It also has a clutch fan is this also the same. What is common and what is not. Also are the exhaust manifolds the same. Manifolds have 4 bolts per port. Thanks for your time...Pat |
| Oil cooler adapter -- Michael, 02/02/2002
I need to cool the oil in my 427. Any ideas where to find an oil cooler adapter? |
| | RE: Oil cooler adapter -- hawkrod, 02/03/2002
are you worried about originality? do you have good clearance under the filter? the late model ford police 302 uses a neat adapter that screws on where a standard oil filter goes and then a standard filter screws onto that. these have the thermal bypass and all of that stuff and if you use the shorter filter it all goes together well. i have used these on many different fords and they are great. i am getting ready to put one on my 62 t-bird next. hawkrod |
| |  | RE: Oil cooler adapter -- joe ligon, 02/04/2002
thats what shelby did before ford cast the drag pack adapter with the fittings.so go for it. |
| | RE: Oil cooler adapter -- BOB HOPKINS, 02/05/2002
Check E- bay under Ford 427 there is usually one on sale there |
| What's a C3AE-E block? -- garrett, 02/02/2002
I'm checking out my '63 PI 390 and its got a C3AE-E block. I can't find that number listed anywhere, has anyone seen it before? I haven't pulled a head yet to check the bore.
thanks,
garrett |
| | RE: What's a C3AE-E block? -- Nitro, 02/02/2002
C = 1960's
3 = 3rd year of decade (1963)
A = Galaxie car line
E = designates an engine part
The last "E" I'm not too sure about but could be a date code for the month of May. |
| Why isn't the 410 listed .... -- Nitro, 02/02/2002
In the Obsolete Engines Textbook? Just wondering...... |
| | Easy - 'cuz my free time is limited. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/02/2002
n/m |
| | | Hehe, works fer me :)....n/t -- Nitro, 02/02/2002
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| | | | RE: Hehe, works fer me :)....n/t -- Bill, 02/03/2002
You could take care of details like that if you would start only sleeping every other day you lazy slug! :-) |
| | | | | Funny, but Mrs F says the same thing. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/04/2002
n/m |
| 427 Marine info for Royce -- David Thayerh, 02/02/2002
Hi Royce,
I read your post at Network54,
The 427 marine engines (centeroilers) were produced by using side oiler castings but never machining out the side oiler journal or the hex plugs. This is why a lot of people read the casting numbers and think they have side oilers when, they have center oilers. This is a different casting the 63- 65 vintage center oiler block. These engines are great for Kit cars (there are plenty of them out there, they need to go in something) I currently am building a 452 TP Marine engine that will go on a motorcylce, yes insanity hase its privledges.
David |
| | 427 Marine engines -- Royce Peterson, 02/02/2002
David,
Like you say, most of the 427 marine engines appear to be center oilers. I have only run into engines cast as center oilers but would not be surprised to see any number of casting variations since the marine / agricultural / industrial applications did not have to meet engineering standards for production, nor did they have to match the shop manual and parts catalogue. None the less, these engines are perfectly suited to making the same horsepower as a side oiler and being quite reliable.
I still don't get kit cars with vintage performance parts. They end up costing as much as a good "R" code 63 - 64 Galaxie would but are not worth as much completed.
The V8 motorcycle is a really weird idea. It won't handle or accelerate any better than a Kawasaki Ninja for example and will cost several multiples of a Harley 'Glide to construct. If it falls over you need a forklift to pick it up. What's the point?
Royce Peterson |
| |  | RE: Casting numbers and Motorcycles -- David Thayerh, 02/02/2002
The center oilers cast as side oilers carry the same side oiler casting number. Hence the confusion by many of what they actually are. These enngines have screw in freeze plugs and are externally identical to the SO. The EZ id is to look for the 3 little hex plugs, no plugs, Center oiler.
As for the bike, you are right, I own a Harley Electra-Glide and a Yamaha V-Max. With a 0-60 time of 1.9 seconds, I have not found anything on the streets that can run with the max. There are several V8 bikes around town, a couple of BB Chevy bikes, and one promo bike with a Detroit Diesel! While in Sturgis last year I saw a Bike that had a 794 CI BB chevy onit & thought, I have never seen a 427 Ford bike!! SOOOO here we go.
David |
| | | RE: 427 Marine engines (Royce) -- P, 02/05/2002
Royce, after all of the good info you've posted on many forums, I must challenge you on this one.
What do you have to substantiate the comment that the marine engines did not have to meet production standards as you claim?
P |
| | | | RE: 427 Marine engines (Royce) -- Royce Peterson, 02/05/2002
Marine engines are not listed in the parts catalog or in the shop manual. Ford could not send engines out in vehicles without adequate information for them to be serviced by the dealer. In the case of the 428CJ for example Ford sent out several service bulletin articles to cover each and every odd fact about those engines. The 68 427 engines are quite thoroughly documented in the shop manual showing instructions regarding the side oiler hydraulic block and cross bolt torque procedures just to name a few of the many such references in the shop manual. There are also several service bulletins covering many other details omitted in the shop manual.
Marine and industrial / farm engines were built to spec for a customer. I am sure they had to meet engineering standards as well and were manufactured with equal quality and attention to detail. The details are certainly covered somewhere in a Ford document, just not in the ones associated with passenger vehicles which are the only ones I collect.
By the way, I have come across a 406 service replacement block that is cast just like a 427 center oiler. My engine builder has bored it to 4.23 and it would easily go 4.26 or maybe 4.27. It has cross bolt bosses that are undrilled and hydraulic lifter passages that are drilled but plugged. There are no dide oiler provisions on it and the date code is early 1964. Casting was C4AE-A. I would have installed cross bolted caps were it mine.
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | RE: 427 Marine engines (thanks Royce) -- P, 02/05/2002
Thanks for the come-back Royce, I have done a lot of research on the marine units, having interviewed guys who worked in the plants (the marine outfitting plant at Galiopolis, Ohio). Chris Craft (just one of the marine builders who bought the FE, Trojan, Century and Higgins being others) didn't know as much about engines as Ford did, and I'm sure they reached a consensus.
Chris Craft, however, knew more about running engines in a marine environment, having started with the old Liberty V-12 OX series of aircraft engines, going to the Hercules inline flathead series, using using Cadillac, SBC, Chrysler and MEL products prior to using the FE.
When I hear something that suggests the marine engines were "seconds" or didn't meet manufacturing standards, I feel just about the same as you do when you hear about a 2-bolt Cougar GTE, ha ha. Having been around marine engines all my life, including some superb Scripps V-12, Curtis Wright V-12, Liberty V-12, Packard aircraft and PT V-12's, Rolls Royce V-12's doctored to look like Packards, Hercules, SBC, you name it, I feel quite sure the marine engines simply had to be built to the highest standards or they would have resulted in recalls being placed back to the manufacturer. I have been advised that "the Ford 427 was as good for us as the MEL was, with regards to call-backs". The FE produced 25 more horsepower than the bigger MEL in marine trim.
Chris Craft and Ford probably came to a consensus VERY quickly regarding the compression ratio and cam profile. The 300-HP marine unit follow the classic pattern, it's detuned a bit for longevity because it has to work very hard. Although Chris Craft bought a bunch of em, I don't think it was enough of a run to interrupt their massive manufacturing (casting) process for special attention to the marine run. I think they pulled the blocks they needed at the time, ran em through the machine process, and shipped em to Galiopolis where the marine equipment was bolted on. During the shuffle to meet orders, some side oilers did, indeed, get shipped to Chris Craft, as there are people who have posted on the FE forums in the past who have them (from marine applications) and I have personally verified them on two boats I am familiar with.
Because the heads were not going to see more than 4,000 RPM, the stated max limit for warranty purposes, they were able to use a "generic" FE (390??) head which produced great torque and "average" power.
They utilized an Eaton distributor, primarily because they wanted a unit with a cable-driven tach. The tach's work great, but the distributors leave a lot to be desired.
I am intrigued with the fact that Ford offered the FE 427 to Chris Craft at the same time they were dominating NASCAR and winning LeMans. Must have made the new boat owners feel pretty good, eh? Even at 300-HP, these engines run VERY STRONG, because at that stage of tune they develope 438 footpounds of torque at 2900 RPM.
Mine are swinging 24" props, and at 4,000 RPM looking down into that engine hatch can make you feel weak in the knees!
Regards, P |
| | | | | | 24" Props! -- Royce Peterson, 02/05/2002
Actually I am surprised most about marine 427's that they do not have a steel crank. On the other hand it shows how much faith Fomoco must have had in the well proven cast units. That's a big set of props!
Royce Peterson |
| | | | | | | 24" Props! -- P, 02/06/2002
Everything I've heard about the cast iron cranks is good. I understand the FT (or some of the FT models) came with a steel crank, and this must have been for a reason. Most of the guys that have problems with the marine motors have em with the valves, probably not taking proper care of the adjustment over the years because everyone is used to hydraulic valves these days, but I've never heard of any problems with the cranks. Bearings go out from time to time, but never heard of a crank busting.
The FE marine units (Chris Craft anyway) run through 2.5:1 gear reduction transmissions and they're limited to 4000 max. Therefore you can swing a big prop with all that torque multiplied through the gear reductions. Chris Craft learned a loooong time ago how to match engines to hulls. They had a 175-HP flathead six, and you can imagine what kind of stump pulling torque that one had. I know a guy who had a pair of em in a cruiser and the thing would fly.
The props are so large than you can't change em in the water unless you're standing on the bottom. Some of the guys put a rope around em for safety. Many of the early boats used 1-3/8" stainless shafts, but all later changed to 1-1/2 for obvious reasons.
The setup works well, I have a friend who recently made a 700-mile trip on Lake Michigan with a pair of 427's and they ran great. There are a bunch of em still out there.
P |
| | | | | | | RE: It was all about $ -- David Thayer, 02/06/2002
Back in the 60's guys, Ford hid a lot of money from their share holders by funneling it through Homan/Moody Stroppe, this Marine program was another of those. In the manufacturing world, your cost is ammortized across your volume of production. I disagree with the marine program interfering with the "Mass Production". As a matter of fact some 30+ years later it is quite evident that a lot more blocks cast as side oilers went in boats than ever went in cars. By spreading these costs across more units and then by saving money by not machining them as SO it must have looked (to the bean coutners) like the side oileer re-tool was free. Face it, at 4000 rpm with a cast crank, the 390 block would have done fine and that extra .23" of bore would not make a differnece with those crappy 352 heads.
David |
| | | | | | | | RE: It was all about $ -- P, 02/07/2002
I agree that it was, indeed, all about the bucks. But what about your premise though, that more blocks cast as sideoilers went into boats, than went into cars?
The engines have survived in boats better than in the cars. Reason, cars drive all the time, and the big blocks always had to prove a point, therefore they were run hard. Now they're either blown up, worn out, or just gone with the wind, not that many of em left. In the meantime, if you nurse a marine motor, paying the enormous marine gas bills, etc. the darn things will last forever, especially if you just put put around so you don't throw the TV set into the head, and the glassware all over the galley.
Chris Craft was "hardly" in the mass production mode, becaue it took quite a while to crank out one of those 20,000 pound hulls and strap in two motors. I'll dig up my production numbers from the Galiopolis Ohio marine fitting plant, and I'll post them. I don't think they really had the volume, I think it appears that way now due to the fact that there are some 427 marine motors still out there running in original condition.
my two cents.
Time to crawl back under my rock, all this exposure makes me think someone is going to put the claws to my back!!
PS: I liked your comments about Lee Holman and his $1500 blocks, versus the $1400 CC was paying for the 390 crank/352 heads.
P
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| | RE: 427 Marine info for Royce & Two Wheel Show -- Ray, 02/02/2002
Good luck on two wheels dave, we can't let chevy guys have all the fun... now can we! P.S. don't scratch the valve covers. |
| 63 PI engines -- garrett, 02/02/2002
Can anyone tell me the casting numbers of the pieces that came stock on a 63 police interceptor motor? Did they originally come with C1AE-A heads? Is there anything special about the engine besides the cool exhaust manifolds (btw, did those manifolds come on any other engines?) and the solid lifter block? Are the cruise-o-matics from a police car any different than a regular tranny? Anything else anyone can tell me about a 63PI 390?
thanks,
garrett |
| | RE: 63 PI engines -- hawkrod, 02/02/2002
well i am not an expert but i did part out a 63 PI merc station wagon a few years ago! i found the car near the mexican border and when i looked under the hood i saw the exhaust and realized it was special. after doing some quick homework i found out that the PI had a special solid lifter block (mine had the HP marking i think, been a long time), a special grooved crank (no big deal now), big bolt rods, a big alternator pulley like a 427, a hi-po air cleaner like a 427, and a few other trinkets including the exhaust manifolds. the manifolds were used on several other applications including 406's i think. i sure wish i had been smart enough to buy and keep that wagon. it was a 63 squire and there could not have been many of them if two!, i sold the motor to a guy up in the gold country in california, placerville or somewhere like that. he had a 61 hipo and had been looking for a correct engine and mine was the closest he had seen. i gave him the door tag from the merc as well (i took it as proof of the engines heritage!). this was 8-10 years ago and i still consider it one of my great blunders! this car was so original that it had correct date coded spark plug wires and you could read the fomoco logo inside the air cleaner element! hawkrod |
| | RE: 63 PI engines -- kevin, 02/02/2002
I saw them with the C3AE-C heads on them. They did have the small solid cam, aluminum stand adjustable rockers, a non performance retainer, cast iron intake, and I think the 4100 series Autolite with manual choke, but its been too long ago to say that carb was original. Different wheels, brakes, steering linkage, driveshaft, were some other oddities available. |
| 427 Marine pix on Ebay -- David Thayer, 02/01/2002
For those of you who have wondered what they looked like, here is a pretty good pic of a 427 300hp CC boat motor.
Go to ebay, then search under 427. Seller says it is a side oiler, ha ha ha
David |
| 67 Mustang K-code -- willie, 01/31/2002
Where could I find production numbers on 67 Mustang Fastback with 289 K-code engine and 4 spd? |
| | Look just to the right - 1967 -1973 VIN Reports -- Royce Peterson, 01/31/2002
See where it says "Click here" for full details- that's what you need to do.
Royce Peterson |
| | In '67, only 205 Mustang FBs had that drivetrain. [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/31/2002
n/m |
| 63 Galaxie Transistor Ignition -- willie, 01/31/2002
I have a 63 1/2 Galaxie R code with transistor ignition. I'm looking for anyone that has knowledge of this system such as location of "brain" box, cover, distributer, anyone with extra components, problems with system, etc. Lets talk. |
| | Check our Parts Dept. (left); we also sell some TI literature. [n/m] -- Mr F, 01/31/2002
n/m |
| | 63 Galaxie trans. ign. -- John Saxon, 02/01/2002
The 1965 Autolite Quick reference catalog has a good wiring schematic and some troubleshooting procedures but as far as actual locations on the car of the different components I have yet to see anything,and I've been looking.If anyone knows of a source for this information please let me know also. |
| | | We probably have it. See 'Feedback', up top. [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/01/2002
n/m |
| | | RE: 63 Galaxie trans. ign. -- Travis Miller, 02/01/2002
There is an excellent drawing showing the complete transistor ignition setup and locations where each piece is installed for the 1963-up Galaxie in the 1960-64 Ford Car Parts and Accessories Catalog. This is the book that the partsman uses at a Ford dealer. That is if they have not thrown it away because they only use computers now. Go to page 397 of the 1960-64 Illustrations Catalog. Everything you need is on this page. |
| | | | RE: 63 Galaxie trans. ign. -- willie, 02/01/2002
THanks, I'll try the dealer. Is this book available anywhere in reprint? |
| | | | | Dealer parts manuals -- Travis Miller, 02/01/2002
I got mine thru Jim Osborn Reproductions many years ago.
<http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/>
You need to call their phone number which is listed on their website to check on ordering the Service Manuals. I've got the 1949-59 (#'s SM64, SM65), the 1960-64 (SM66, SM67), and the 1965-72 (SM59). These are the same books the dealer parts counter used. A must for looking up old Ford parts. They cover Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Thunderbird, Mustang. |
| | | RE: 63 Galaxie trans. ign. -- willie, 02/01/2002
where could I get this 1965 Autolite Quick reference? |
| | Info about a Motorcraft TI setup -- Ron Vesterby, 02/01/2002
Not sure if it is the same thing you are referencing or not but I have a couple of Motorcraft transistorized ignition kits I purchased years ago. I installed one on my 71 SCJ for a while them removed it. It consisted of a gold colored control unit that is about the same size as a 70's voltage regulator, and a reluctor device that slipped over the points block on the distributor shaft and a pickup unit that replaced the points. The wires went to the coil, the distributor and a positive voltage source and ground. To late to run out to the garage but I am sure there is a wiring diagram. I could even send you a digital picture of the whole setup if you are interesed. Like I said not sure if this is the same thing you are talking about. I am sure there is a part number that should tell us the year. At any rate it is the only transistorized ignition conversion kit I know of that came from Ford. But Mr F knows more about these things than I !! |
| | | RE: Info about a Motorcraft TI setup -- willie, 02/01/2002
send me an email so we can talk more about this "kit".
r2web@aol.com |
| | RE: 63 Galaxie Transistor Ignition -- John, 02/01/2002
Willie, I have a 67 R Fairlane, I ran this setup racing, took it to 8500, not a miss, im going to put it back in, the points or point almost will never wear out, less voltage used, there is 1 part of it that should be under the dash, (less heat), mine is on my 67, the factory shop manual has the wiring diagrams, AutoKrafters has a lot of this stuff, the 63 setup was the original idea for the 67, most parts are the same, they were originally truck parts, since they had to last a long time, most part #'s have the "T" in them, I.E. C3TF, i have some wiring diagrams, and spares, let me know what you need, John |
| | Willie sent you TI pics direct - N/M - Ron V -- Ron Vesterby, 02/01/2002
z |
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