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| fe bellhousing -- dave, 03/19/2003
I noticed a bellhousing listed on e-bay that looks identical to the one installed between the 428 and the RUG-AE2 tranny in my69 Merc. The listing says it is 7/16" deeper than a car bell ....?.....is this true..are there car bellhousings with the ribs that are the correct depth? The only concerns I had heard about were clearance when running the 11.5" clutch, I checked this it was OK and my car now runs and drives....headers and all. I have only put a few miles on it....to the alignment shop and back and onto a friends trailer for transport to get paint. No noticeable problems but will I quickly wipe out the front retainer? Anybody kknow how to ID the bells by a casting number? Thanks Dave |
| | RE: fe bellhousing -- McQ, 03/19/2003
You don't tell us what model your '69 Merc is....Cyclone? Montego? Cougar? X100? Parklane? You got yourself a Mercury and your gonna cruise on down the road....but it would be helpful to know a little more.
The stick bellhousing that FE equipped unibody FoMoCo vehicles ('66-'70) came with is a C6OZ.....although I've seen many that have no casting #s on them. They do not have the external ribbing as the pickup stick bells have. It's true that the pickup/truck bell is 7/16" deeper than the unibody FE bell.
The truck bellhousing is a common item on eBay. Often times misrepresented as a passenger car stick bellhousing. As with all of eBay...Buyer Beware.
As to whether you will have any problems running the external rib/truck bell between your 428/RUG-AE2? I'm not going to profess personal knowledge. However if your toploader's input shaft is seated & supported properly in the pilot bushing of your flywheel there shouldn't be any failures.
I hope someone with personal experience and knowledge of running this transmission with the pickup/truck bell will give us some reinforcement. |
| | | RE: fe bellhousing -- dave, 03/20/2003
my application is a 69 Cougar |
| | | | RE: there you go then -- McQ, 03/20/2003
So you have a "ribbed" truck bellhousing that fits fine in your Coug, right? It's 7/16" deeper and there's no problem with the input shaft to pilot bushing? Did your trans mount align well?
This is all very interesting to me because a friend and I have speculated about the use of the truck 7/16" deeper bell with a small block wide ratio 2.78 low gear top loader which has a longer input shaft than the big block tranny. The benefits gained would be the use of the wide ratio trans that would need no mods to work fine with a 390/428. It seems it would work.
Again, if your toploader trans is seated properly and it works well - you've got no problems! |
| | | | | RE:C5AA-Bell -- McQ, 03/20/2003
I just have to laugh out loud when I see something so hyped on eBay, i.e., 427 SOHC bellhousing C5AA-6394-A. The seller describes it as a rare part you need to make your SOHC correct. Right. I didn't note the eBay # but it's a fairly new listing under Ford 427. That bell is the exact bellhousing used on all FEs with a stick trans installed in a '65 & later full size car. That could be a 352-2V, 390-2V, 428, 427...a stock 427 SOHC Galaxie....that was never released to the public.
Do note Dave that the bellhousing does not have the ribs as yours does. |
| | | | | | RE:C5AA-Bell -- dave, 03/20/2003
Sorry I guess I'm not making my question clear, I'm not sure that is OK thats what I'm asking...if anyone has been smarter than me and mocked this set-up together to verify its a good fit. I was told the difference between bellhousings was that not all of them could work with the11.5" clutch I checked that, it was OK, so I bolted it all up. No problem with the trans mount and the Hurst shifter location. The few miles I have driven it is not enough proof that its not going to come apart early once I start pounding on it, and I will |
| | | | | | | RE:questions & answers -- McQ, 03/21/2003
I think you've made your questions clear. I'm trying to provide you with what I've learned here and in real life although I've never actually used the C5T ribbed truck bellhousing in a passenger car application with a big block input shaft stick transmission. I wish someone who has would jump in and give you some positive reinforecement.
Question 1 you asked:
eBay bell that's listed as 7/16" deeper?
Answer:
Yes the C5T truck/pick up bell housing is 7/16" deeper and it's easily identified by external rib casting. I personally have not seen a passenger car stick bellhousing for an FE with external ribs. So I think you may have a truck bellhousing in your '69 Cougar with a toploader RUG 4 speed.
Question/cocnern:
clearance when running the 11.5" clutch but you said your bellhousing was fine with this.
Answer:
I can tell you that a '64 and earlier FE car bellhousing is limited to accepting a 11" maximum clutch. I believe the C5A(passenger car) and C5T('65 & later pickup/truck) and C6OZ(Fairlane, Mustang, Cougar, etc. unibody w/FE) all will accept up to a 12" clutch.
Question:
will I quickly wipe out the front retainer?
Answer:
I'm not giving a definite no/yes on this question because as I've said I have no experience running the bellhousing you are running with a passenger car, specifically a big block 4 speed toploader. So I don't want to profess knowledge about something I have not done. However as I've said if your input shaft is seated well in the pilot bushing of your flywheel you should have no problems. And everything else is working well, i.e., the clutch engages and releases properly, again, you should have no problems. How does everything look viewing through the inspection plate? Properly support the Cougar, get underneath and have someone operate actuate the clutch for you.
This is where I wish someone with personal experience would jump in and add to our knowledge.
I've re read every one of your posts and questions. That's the best I can offer you.
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| | | | | | | | RE:questions & answers -- Dave, 03/21/2003
Thanks McQ, I just hate the thought of having to go backwards so close to the end, to quote the mighty Led Zeppelin....."NOBODYS FAULT BUT MINE".... I will do whatever it takes to check it out and post the results here. This gearbox was one of the parts that came with this basket case but it was brand new and the $1200 marked on the top cover tells me wiping it out would not be smart |
| | | | | | | | | Re:rug-ae2? -- McQ, 03/22/2003
You're right on with double checking on this. I agree totally that it would be sad to damage your gearbox. Which leads me to ask, which box is the AE-2? I don't have a book handy but a friend and I were speculating that possibly you're running a small block 4 speed? They're just as strong as the regular big block 4 speed(I'm not talking about the large input CJ/427 box) but offer wide ratio with a 2.78 first gear. And the small block box has the longer input shaft which is supposed to work perfectly with the truck bell housing that you're running.
Just wondering which toploader you actually have there. |
| | | | | | | | | | rug-ae2 is a big in big out 69 428 CJ trans N/M -- hawkrod, 03/23/2003
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| | | | | | | | it will fit -- Pete, 03/23/2003
a truck bell and 11 1/2 clutch will work. I have done it. The deeper bell makes a different angle, thus providing clearance. |
| | | | | | | | | RE: it will fit -- Dave, 03/23/2003
Hi Pete , I saw the header on youre post ...and a brief glimpse of hope......the real issue is the depth of the input shaft, I just found out about the extra 7/16" and wondering if the pilot shaft on the BB tranny is reaching he pilot bushing? THIS IS NOT A DRILL...I really dont even want to think about having to do the FE w/headers bellhousing waltz....was there a passenger car bell with ribs? AM I the first guy to make this mistake? AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHH.......Thanks |
| | | | | | | | | | RE: it will fit -- Pete, 03/25/2003
I used a SB toploader in the example I previously mentioned. So the extra depth was no problem at all. I am building another, and will use another C5T bell, but now have a FE length input on this toploader. I was told it would still work, as the input slips in far enough. I will see soon and certainly post this info to the FE boards. |
| | | RE: fe bellhousing -- Geoff McNew, 03/27/2003
I'd think a truck bellhousing wouldn't be good on an FE since the truck motor, FT, has a longer crank flange than the FE's...unless you were gonna use an FT's crank as well, that is. |
| | RE: fe bellhousing -- JW, 03/26/2003
Speeking from experience, a "big in big out" toploader will not reach a standard pilot bushing in an FE with a C5TE bellhousing. |
| | | RE: fe bellhousing -- Dave, 03/26/2003
I guess the inital shock of having to take two giant umbrella steps backwards has worn off and the haze has cleared. My plan is too un-load the linkage, un-bolt the pressure plate and slide it back enough to inspect how close the input shaft is to the bushing. I checked with a local place called WEBCO that specializes in clutch/brake parts and they looked into a deeper pilot bushing with the same I.D. and O.D. but the only thing they found was an extra .060 deep. I must have had enough coffee by this time and asked them if I could borrow a stock bushing for a few hours and went to see my friend that is a world class fabricator ( builds the high tech stage stuff on Broadway) and ordered a length of high tensile bronze that should show up tommorrow that he could turn to fit. His thoughts were that to extend some dimension from the crank would be OK but if no part of the input shaft was beyond the face of the flywheel then whatever goes in there would literally be a coupler more than a bushing and does not recommend it. I will keep everyone informed, thanks for the response |
| | | RE: fe bellhousing -- Geoff McNew, 03/27/2003
I have a tag# RUG-AE2 1-3/8"x10 toploader with a 428. The bellhousing is C6OA. Input pilot is 5/8". |
| | RE: fe bellhousing -- John Saxon, 03/31/2003
Dave,to answer your question about the externally ribbed bell it is a truck unit .58-62 pass cars useda bell that was smooth externally and had a deep starter pocket and will not accept an 11.5 or larger clutch 63-64 pass cars used a smooth bell with a C3AA casting # which also had a deep starter pocket but apparently will accept a large clutch because that is the bell 427s used and they supposedly had an 11.5 clutch.65 and later full sized pass cars used a C5AA bell that was smooth externally had the shallow starter pocket and would accept the large clutch and also has a boss cast into the side of it to accept the engine side equalizer shaft pivot needed for forward placement of the engine used in 65 and later full sized cars.66 and later unibody cars ie. fairlane, mustang and their cousins used a C6OA bell that is smooth externally and has the shallow starter pocket and accepts the large clutch and looks identical to the C5AA bell with the exception that the boss cast into the side of it is finished at an angle with no hole drilled or tapped.That pretty much covers them with a common theme that none of them are ribbed externally and they are all meant to be used with big block and y block specific input shaft length so to sum it up either the C5AA or the C6OA bells will work for you though the C5AA bell may require the side boss to be trimmed.To be safe it may be prudent for you to bite the bullet and change the bell to ensure proper pilot engagement.Out of curiosity what clutch fork are you using with the big input tranny? |
| | | RE: fe bellhousing -- Dave, 03/31/2003
John, Thanks for the info, on Sat I took about a 100 mile drive to take a look at some bellhousings that were advertised in a local car trader (YES VIGINIA THERE IS LIFE WITHOUT E-BAY) and I was able to put a ribbed housing next to a smooth housing and they are different. I was even able to purchase a 5AA housing that was cleaned painted and in need of a pivot for $50.00 a third of what I was able to find them for on-line...anywhere..I currently have the pivot with the hole in it in the truck bell. Next question does anyone have an extra pivot? Should I just pull the one from the truck bell? Has anyone re-riveted one before? Thanks Dave |
| | | | RE:pivot rivet -- Paul M, 03/31/2003
Say that three times real fast!
I had to replace the pivot on truck's bell last summer, and all I did was drill out the old rivets (the pivot shattered into a dozen pieces but the rivets held fine!) and replaced them with angle head allen bolts. get something that is just long enough to put a 1/4 inch deep nut on, and use some loc-tite.
The angled head of the allen bolts fit's flush with the tranny mounting surface, so there are no issues there.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
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| what heads are these? -- Kevin, 03/18/2003
Have a couple heads I need ID'd Both are casting # C8AE H Anyone have a cross reference book? They came on an engine that was in a '72 Ranger with a 360ci engine. Can anyone help? |
| 427 carb question -- clemson61, 03/18/2003
my 427 has dual 4 bbls. and I am tired of fighting and rebuilding them and I want to buy new ones. can I buy any 4160 model carb or do I have to buy a specific 4160 model for the linkage to hook up? thanks bryce nelson |
| 390 id -- Patrick, 03/18/2003
Two things: First, I'm new to Ford (Mopars & Hudsons are my primary interests). I have a '70 F-250 2WD with what is supposed to be a 352, but I think is a 390. I spun a main bearing while driving 70 mph @ 2950 rpm. The engine is still in the truck, so the diagnosis is preliminary. How do I determine the engine size? I know it's a big block, but which? Second, will a 460 bolt in w/o mods, if the damage is more than expected? |
| | RE: 390 id -- patrick, 03/22/2003
I guess there's no one wanting to help someone with a Ford question, though a similar question asked later was answered with at least five replies. What's up with that? BTW, I found my answer at a much more helpful Ford forum...Guess if it isn't Mustang-related, is isn't answered! |
| FE starter motor?!? -- Hank, 03/18/2003
I'm having problems with my old starter motor on my FE 410.So now I am wondering what new starter to buy!? Is PowerMaster any good?Thanx! |
| | RE: FE starter motor?!? -- Travis Miller, 03/18/2003
Go to a local starter/alternator rebuild shop and deal with them directly. Get to know them and over the years they will be able to answer all your questions about auto electric problems. As you modify your cars, they will be helpful in custom building starters and alternators to fit your needs.
I learned this long ago and have never been sorry for a single cent I have spent at my local rebuilder. They have always been there when I needed them. Even for some of my off the wall ideas. |
| GT 500 KR aircleaner -- John, 03/17/2003
Anyone have a pic of the underside of the aircleaner for a 68 GT 500?
A friend have one, but not sure if its the right one.
John |
| Ford/ Holley Carb -- Phil Lemoine, 03/17/2003
OK Guys, Ive got a carb#C5AF-BV, Hollet List # 3255-1. Whats the specs on this carb,and was it used on ant particular car? |
| | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Barry B, 03/17/2003
I could only find that number for one year, in the '67 Ford Car Service Specifications book. Says it's for a '67 Ford w/ a 427 4V, standard trans. Holley 4160-C, 1.688" primary bore, 1.688" sec. bore, 1.375" primary venturi, 1.437" sec. venturi, 73 main jets, 85 sec. jets, 65 power valve, 57MI choke spring. |
| | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Phil, 03/17/2003
Barry, whats the CFM rating, and any idea which car? |
| | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Barry B, 03/17/2003
AFAICT, full size Fords. Doesn't give the flow rating. Sorry, I don't know much about these 427 factory carbs, just what I can look up. Here's more I found, choke housing setting - index, accelerator pump lever setting - #1, secondary throttle plate setting - 1/2 turn after contact, curb idle - 750rpm. |
| | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- John Saxon, 03/18/2003
Phil,I believe that carb is for 1965-67 427 4-V in full size and Fairlanes and Comets.I think they are a 780 cfm like their C5AF-BT and BU dual quad cousins.I believe the normal 427-8v had C3 600cfm holleys while the more exotic stuff like SOHC and tunnel ports and maybe some of the last drag race hi-risers got the BT and BU 780s.But I'm thinking most if not all the 4vs from 65-67 got the BV,lets face it the 65 and later 427 MR had evolved to the point where the old LR 600cfm 4v would not feed all those wild ponies.I'm sure someone out there probably has the exact applications,but I think 65-67 427 4v in all car lines would be a safe bet.BTW that is not to say its not a rare carb 427 4vs were in the minority,I don't have production #s thats just based on how many cars you see out there,seems like you see at least twice as many R code cars as you do 4v coded cars.Anybody else got an opinion or heaven forbid some facts to shed on this subject. |
| | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Phil, 03/18/2003
Thanks for the info John, the guy i bought it from dealt with SOHC engines, and picked it up somewhere down the line. He also indicated that this carb was used on the Hemi NASCAR engines[that seams a little odd]. The carb is in near new condition,and the color is flawless. |
| | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Gary Morris, 03/18/2003
Phil....does the carb have the Lemans float bowls? They are about 1" square and stick out about an inch. If so it is probably a 427 carb used on a lot of the high rise 427's in 66. Thew number for 65 is C5AF9510-BE. I have been searching for one when I have time to put on a Cobra replica someday.
Gary |
| | | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Phil, 03/18/2003
Yes Gary, it has the Lemans bowls. Sorry its going on my Kirkham 427SC. |
| | | | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Gary Morris, 03/18/2003
Phil....If I could stick my tongue out I would.....We have a Kirkham in our local group of Cobras....VERY SWEET! But I still love my ERA! C5AF9510-BE is the one you want for 1965. The BV is for 1966. Our local Kirkham owner found a BE and it looks very cool. Glad it's going on a Cobra. What part of the country are you in?
Gary |
| | | | | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Phil Lemoine, 03/18/2003
Gary, im in southern california. by the way didnt the cobras have the Holley List # 3155-1 carbs on them. ERA i think is the most accurate of the fiberglass cars, i was looking at buying one before i took the plunge into the Kirkham. |
| | | | | | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- Gary Morris, 03/25/2003
Phil...thanks for the compliments. Saw my first Kirkham a while back...SWEET! I'm not sure on the Holley list number as all I have memorized is the Ford part number of C5AF9510-BE for 1965. after that they went to BV I think but I don't have the Shelby Registry in front of me. I look for them from time to time but not real hard as the last one I saw they wanted $850 for and if I'm going to spend that much for one it's going to be dated for 1965....or at least I hope so. Just finding a set of Holley 34-14 Lemans Bowls which will fit any of them are almost impossible to find as well. Good luck with the Kirkham. Good people indeed as Steve made me a deal on a oil puke tank that I was bidding on e-bay but got sniped at the last few seconds. Steve Kirkham fixed me up with one for the same price. I could not believe it and thanked him every way I could. I've almost got it installed and it looks cool...even though it's mostly for looks.
Gary |
| | | | | | | Ford Drum to Disc brakes -- Francisco, 06/17/2004
Hi.....I am helping my son change the front drum brakes on his 1968 Galaxie to front disc brakes from a 1977 LTD. ['68 Galaxie had drum front/drum rear; LTD had disc front/drum rear]. We changed the spindles, all the steering arms, all brake lines the cluster block with the differential switch and proportioning valve etc from the LTD but we bought a new manual powered dual master cylinder for a 1968 Galaxie Disc front drum rear. When it came to attaching the lines from the master cylinder to the cluster block because of the fitting sizes we had to reverse the lines and use the forward most (secondary cylinder) for the front discs and the primary cylinder for the rear brakes. My question is will I need to reflare those two fittings and change them around or will the front brakes work okay off the secondary cylinder and the rear brakes work off the primary? Thank you very much. Sincerely, Francisco |
| | | | | | | | RE: Ford Drum to Disc brakes -- giacamo, 06/17/2004
the large resavar is for the disks. the small resavar is for the drums.the small resavar will run out of fluid wen your discks are halft way wor out.so hook them up coreck i think you can find fittings to adapt. |
| | | | | | | 69 Ford Mustang mack 1 -- seana, 07/12/2004
I'm trying to find out if anyone could tell me what would they recommend to use for a 9in rearend? |
| | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- John Saxon, 03/19/2003
Phil I agree with you that those carbs being used on NASCAR Hemis seems odd especially since ChryCo had their own holley for the track hemi I picked one at a swap meet a couple of years ago thinking it was a chevy carb but it had the Lemans bowls.I did some investigation on the list# and found out that the part# on it was a Mopar # instead of a GM # and it was for a 1964 426 track hemi(single quad)It was also in great shape and is in the process of going onto the 427 in my 61 Starliner.As far as I can tell it appears to be an 850cfm.I had hoped to find a 780 ford carb with the Lemans bowls but no such luck.I like the look of of the Lemans bowls because it dates the carb back to the mid 60s.Lot of visual identification with Cobras and GT-40s |
| | | | | I have a C3AE-B Holley 70 from single carb 427 -- Larry, 03/20/2003
doesn't have the LeMans bowls....if you ar interested in something like that for your car... |
| | | | | | I have a C3AE-B Holley 780 single carb 427 -- Larry, 03/20/2003
780 cfm not 70.... |
| | | | | | | RE: I have a C3AE-B Holley 780 single carb 427 -- Stan, 03/20/2003
Larry, what year is the C3AE from? |
| | | | | | | | RE:'63 427-410 horse -- McQ, 07/13/2004
The C3AE-B came on '63-'64 410 horse single 4V 427's. I believe the correct CFM is 700 not 780. I've been told by various carb experts that this is true. Anyone know for sure about the CFM? I will be using one on my engine. |
| | | | | | | | | RE:'63 427-410 horse -- Larry, 09/17/2004
700 cfm to 750 cfm as best I can tell from looking at Holley's web site and the venturi size guess (hard to measure). It does have 1 11/16 throttle plates.
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| | | | | | | | | | RE:'63 427-410 horse -- Larry, 09/17/2004
[Image deleted by Admin.] |
| | | | | | | | | RE:'63 427-410 horse -- paula murray, 09/22/2004
looking to chang 302 to 427 or 351 need parts and also looking for blower |
| | | | | RE: Ford/ Holley Carb -- ronnie, 09/17/2004
i have holley carb. 4543-s they told me it came off a 427 2x4 set up. it is a 850cfm. i want to know what 427 did it come off of. |
| air cleaner on mustang -- Charlie, 03/17/2003
Does any one know if the shelby cobra oval style air cleaners will fit on a 1967 mustang with a 428 and edelbrock performer rpm intake with holley carb? Looks to be just enough clearence but it would be nice to know before I spend the $100. Thanks Charlie |
| | RE: air cleaner on mustang -- Mike, 04/02/2003
I would think it would fit since it is pretty much the same as the one used on the GT500 shelby's. I have one brand new it is the 2x4v design made to fit a 1x4v carb with the air filter that i got with a motor i bought if you are interested email me at cj428mach@yahoo.com |
| | RE: air cleaner on mustang -- Dave, 04/04/2003
i HAVE A 428 IN MY 67 Mustang with the Edel. Performer RPm, stock Holley #matching carb and The oval air cleaner will not fit with the hood closed. If you had the shelby hood, I'm sure it would. But my hood will not close without touching air cleaner( by touching, dimpling... ouch) I have to use the stock GTA air cleaner for clearance. |
| rpm's/mph ? -- ponyboy, 03/17/2003
What should a 1967, 390, +.060 in a gta mustang run in rpms, @55/60 mph? Thanks |
| | RE: rpm's/mph ? -- Gerry Proctor, 03/17/2003
It would greatly depend on the final drive and tire size. Go to smokeemup.com for a rpm/speed calculator (once you have the info). You'll quickly discover that engine size is not an input parameter. |
| | | RE:Does not seem -- ponyboy, 03/17/2003
to be a "good" address www.smokeemup,com? Nobody home. |
| | | | RE: rpm's/mph ? -- Travis Miller, 03/18/2003
The site I use for any kind of car math is
www.prestage.com
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| | | | | Both great sights !! -- Lou, 03/18/2003
n/m |
| headers 390 with power steering 68 mustang -- kenny brown, 03/16/2003
Are there any companies that sell headers for a 68 mustang with a 390 engine and power steering and air conditioning. |
| | RE: headers 390 with power steering 68 mustang -- Charlie, 03/17/2003
Yes, FPA, hooker etc. I don't know about the FPA but you have to use a lowering bracket on your ps cylinder with the hooker headers, but they do clear all the rest of the ps, and 4 speed pieces if thats the case. Do a search on the forum here you'll see most people like the FPA, I plan to use them on my next rebuild. |
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