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| U2 crank in a 390 -- Martin, 03/02/2003
I have bought a 390 and found out that it has 428 (C7AE-B) connecting rods and a crank with U2 on it.
My book says it is a 66-73 to ser. Q80,001 truck. What does this mean?
All other parts look stock to me.
The cilinders have to be overbored, what kind of pistons should i use? I plan to use C8AE-H heads with headers and a 390-gt intake.
ANY IDEA's THANKS. |
| | RE: U2 crank in a 390 -- Charlie, 03/02/2003
The last 2 390's I tore apart both had c7aeb rods. They are great to use, I reccomend getting some arp bolts in them, $45 makes good insurance. What are you installing the engine in? Makes a difference what heads you use with what exhaust system. |
| | | Be aware that... -- Dave Shoe, 03/03/2003
...when you replace the stock bolts with ARP bolts, you must also resize the rod using these new bolts to assure the big-end is round at the new, higher clamping force.
Shoe. |
| | Crank and rods -- Royce Peterson, 03/02/2003
The 2U crank is a standard 390 part. So are the rods.
Royce |
| | | RE: Thanks charlie -- martin, 03/02/2003
I am restoring a '69 mach 1.
original it was equiped with a 390 and 4spd toploader. I am trying to get everyting together, wich is not so easy in Holland.
Over here there are not so many toploaders, only when you want to pay a lot for it. |
| | | | RE: Thanks charlie -- Charlie, 03/03/2003
http://www.fomoco.com
http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/
If you don't find a toploader try one of these. Or post a message to MR. F on this forum to see if he has one in stock to send you. If a guy has to pay a bit more than swap meet price, might as well have some thing you know will be a solid part from a good source. I bought my 4 spd used from a web forum, by the time I bought the part and reconditioned, wish I would have just bought a ready to run part. Try Mr. F and fomoco.com first then David Kee. Charlie |
| 428cj PCV valve - love it or lose it? -- Geoff McNew, 03/02/2003
Since I've abandoned the retro thing in hopes of better high rpm performace and my 428-SCJ now has Edelbrock heads, etc., should I also dispense with the plastic PCV spacer plate and breather hose venting my right side snake valve cover to the under side of the Holley? I didn't like the gummy oil tar on my intake valves after 3000 miles (gotta figure the idle quality and vacuum also were affected adversely?), BUT - I did like the way the dipstick is only part-way extruded when it revs past 5,500 rpm.
So, guess my question is: when I lose the PCV valve, what is the best way to vent the crankcase...and maybe do it adequately? |
| | Vacuum Pump -- Royce Peterson, 03/02/2003
For a car you drive on the street a PCV is the right answer.
Otherwise a Moroso Vacuum pump is the way to fly. A pan evac system won't work too well with mufflers but will with open headers.
You must have a problem if the dip stick is blowing out, are you running low tension rings?
Royce |
| | | RE: Vacuum Pump -- Geoff McNew, 03/03/2003
No, I agree feeding braided steel lines to the collectors is probably not the best idea for my street motor. Had a buddy whose 390 did the same thing though - pushes the dipstick up about an inch if you buzz the engine (granted I don't go past 6000 and he was turning 7800 all the time). Still, I've never noticed any oil consumption nor had anyone comment on even the slightest puff of blue when I've romped on it ....& I don't even have a windage tray! So, I guess I'm at the "did you f$#& with it?" stage & I'll keep the PCV valve. Thanks. |
| | RE: 428cj PCV valve - love it or lose it? -- Bob Sprowl, 03/02/2003
The gummy tar is the new gasolines. You should see the mess on some valves, almost closed off.
And don't disconnect the PCV system or you will have oil (from the oil vapor of blow by) allover your engine compartment. |
| | | An alternate solution -- James Dodson, 03/02/2003
PCV was the first step in the emissions standards imposed by the government back in the 60's is my understanding. For years cars had a draft or vent tube and functioned quite well until the car wore out the rings or valve guides and then your engine would puff blue smoke from this tube or spew small amounts of oil from it depending on how wornout the components were.
My point? The plate on the back of that intake had nothing but a crooked vent on the Cobras' and is sold by Tony Branda. It works pretty good.
I to have the snake valve covers that I had a PCV hooked to and no matter what I did it still took healthy drinks of oil from it. My solution was simple. I did away with the PCV system and put a breather cap on the passenger side valve cover along with leaving the stock cap with hose to the breather on the drivers' side. I have suffered no ill effects from this and I do not have those fumes from the crank in my cumbustion chamber affecting its performance. It works for me.
PS. Here is a shot of the reason I am broke, I mean my car. ;-)
[Image deleted by Admin.] |
| | | | An alternate solution but not usually a good one -- hawkrod, 03/05/2003
eliminating the PCV is fine for a car that sees little road time but the lack of a PCV causes a lot of problems in the crankcase like acids and moisture in the oil (no you can't see it but test it and it is there). also you will incur more crankcase pressure which causes more oil leaks long term. if you are not running a PCV you need to do more oil changes and clean your engine more often. on an average street car the lack of a PCV will shorten engine life through wear and hurt both performance and economy. on a purpose built vehicle that is maintained properly it probably doesn't hurt much but as we know most people are not on top of it enough and tend to let things slide. hawkrod |
| | | | | Listen to Hawk... -- Ross, 03/05/2003
I have a buddy in Colorado who's 390 truck was seeping, not really leaking, but misty dirty EVERYWHERE. I got there on a road trip and saw no PCV, ran a 3/8 line and a Granada PCV (nice 3/8 90 degree angle)and vented the opposite v/c VOILA no leaks. He thought it was magical, but it was just vacuum instead of blowby (and regardless of how nice, all motors have some blowby)
Hawk hit it on the head, there are many reasons to run the PCV you WONT see with emissions and acids, but there is also one you will see, and thats more pressure in the cyl which will contribute to oil leaks and more mist / mess on the outside
I run a PCV on everything including my 427 |
| MSD FE Distributor/Pertronix -- Gary Adam, 02/28/2003
Anyone tried on of these yet? How about a Pertronix in a stock distributor. Still runnin stock points -- don't laugh -- still workin good. Last guy at car show laughed at my points so I reached in through window, (C-6 park brake on) and just touched starter. Barely hear starter cause starts so quick. Guy quits laughing. Says ''Geez, ya workin good!'' |
| | RE: I'd leave well enough alone. -- Gerry Proctor, 02/28/2003
There is much good to be said for an inductive ignition system. If it's giving you good service and lights your fire, the only downside is having to maintain the system by checking dwell and replacing points every now and then. A small price to pay, in my opinion. |
| | My experience. -- James, 02/28/2003
I had a points ignition in my 428 and it worked. That is all I have to say about it.
I know countless people who have the Petronix installed on that same distributor and they are telling me that it is one of the best things they ever bought for less than $70.
I have a remanufactured Ford Dura-Spark distributor ($60) for a 76 360 pickup on it now with a MSD 6AL box hanging on the fender apron that works dynomite.
A person could use a Ford Box that goes with the Ford distributor and save a bundle. I think that a MSD distributor is an unnessesary expense while the Dura-Spark distributors are are still cheap and redely available. |
| | | thanks -- Gary Adam, 02/28/2003
Thanks alot for the feedback! |
| | RE: MSD FE Distributor/Pertronix -- Royce Peterson, 02/28/2003
I ran an MSD with the stock distributor for several years. I converted to a Pertronix and see no difference. The points seemed to last forever with the MSD installed.
Royce |
| | RE: MSD FE Distributor/Pertronix -- Charlie, 03/01/2003
I have a ford duraspark also, $50.oo brand new from checker feeding a crane ignition box. Runs great, can't tell it apart from my Dad's $230+ msd distributor, other than in the pocket book lol. |
| | RE: MSD FE Distributor/Pertronix -- Geoff McNew, 03/02/2003
I have the first gen Pertronix in a blueprinted Autolite C8OF with single adjustable vacuum advance kit, a Pertronix Flamethrower II coil (in black, w/ a touch of black satin spray paint and green pad to make it look factory & weathered), Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm wires (again in dull black and supported by drilled-out factory valve cover clips). No ignition complaints at all. |
| | | RE: Is this what you're after (new MSD FE distributor) -- Martin Micheelsen, 03/04/2003
I was going to drop the MSD distr. W/O vacum advance for a new MSD distr WITH vacum advance until several people pointed out that they had had great success with the much cheaper Ford Duraspark distr. If there is no need to recalibrate the Duraspark, I will save my money for other needed parts. If recalibration is required I will still get the easier to recalibrate MSD distr. |
| | | | Timing curve -- Ross, 03/05/2003
I run a Duraspark in my 390 truck and planned to do so in the 427 until I found a new Mallory Unilite for dirt cheap, so I have been running that, it works well. However, we put a new MSD in a 428 CJ street car this month and let me tell you the pros and cons
Duraspark Pros Cheap Runs good, reliable Gives you lots of timing (+20)
Cons Need to pull the distributor apart (and out of the motor) for spring/bushing changes (although you can access a tab from the top to reduce spring pressure for rate)
MSD Pros Easy spring changes a la Chevy style advance Advance bushing for total advance easier than Ford, not as easy as the springs though Plugs directly into MSD without even crimping a wire (thats nice, comes with a pretty two wire harness) Comes with documentation to set up any curve you want before you fire the motor, great booklet
Cons Comes with springs installed that dont allow full advance until 4500 rpm Very expensive Cap and rotor not common at local stores Cap takes late model style wires
Overall, I wouldnt buy an MSD because I know how to play witht he Durasparks and they work great, however, the MSD is easy and has good instructions, you trade money for that ease if you arent comfortable tearing apart the Duraspark
For a mild FE, I'd drop a duraspark in with no MSD box, just a stock duraspark box and just set initial timing and loosen up the springs, for a wild one, I'd probably run the MSD for the rev limiter and only buy the MSD dist if I had cash burning a hole in my pocket |
| | What's the problem, specifically? Which browser & OS? [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/24/2003
n/m |
| | It doesn't work for me either -- Royce Peterson, 02/24/2003
Windows XP, Zoomtown DSL hookup.
Royce |
| | | Ok, but again - which browser? What problem(s), exactly? [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/24/2003
n/m |
| | | Seems Ok, now. Try again, when you can. [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/24/2003
n/m |
| | I think its fixed. Try again, when you have time. [n/m] -- Mr F, 02/24/2003
n/m |
| | It works now! -- Royce Peterson, 02/24/2003
CodeCrackerâ„¢ results for 8F01R180222 model year: 1968 built at: Dearborn (Dearborn, MI) bodystyle: Hardtop engine: 428 CID - 4V "Cobra Jet" (Ram-Air) consecutive #: 180222 body series: Unk. code - check entry scheduled assy.: June 6, 1968 exterior color: "Candyapple Red" interior trim: Unk. code - check entry sales office (DSO):513020: Denver, CO ("DN") axle ratio: 3.91:1 "Traction-Lok" transmission: 4-spd. manual (2.32 1st gear)
Powered by CodeCracker |
| | RE: Mustang decoder -- Pete Robinson, 02/24/2003
It seems to be working now but it was unable, for some reason, to decode the DSO (56) which is Davenport, IA |
| | | Beats me why, Pete. Please send me your data-set... -- Mr F, 02/24/2003
sales2 @ fomoco.com (no spaces) |
| | | | RE: Beats me why, Pete. Please send me your data-set... -- salid, 02/24/2003
Mr. F, do you capture all the data that gets entered into the decoder? May be a good way to get an idea of what cars are still out there. But I guess it could also be a good way to get a bunch of bogus data on fake cars, unless you can check it against something like Kevin's database to make sure the info is correct. I know you have nothing else to do, this might be a good project to do when you have no forum messages to respond to. I know, "drop and give me another 20." |
| Maximum Valve Size in a FE bore? -- Paul G., 02/23/2003
Hello, Can anyone tell me what the maximum size valves you can put into a set of C6AE-R heads and still be able to use them on a 4.050 bore FE. What if the block were bored to 4.080. I have read on this forum that the C6AE-R heads can be made to flow very well with larger valves. So I am curious, how large can you go on a stock or .030 over D4TE 390 block using a 1UB crank shaft. Thanks, Paul G. |
| 390 -rear main seal replacement -- James, 02/23/2003
Hi I've got an oil leak at the back of my 390 (1968 GT). I did a search on this site, and found previous posts. so this is what I spent a whole day doing, upside-down under the car: 1) Dropped the oil, removed the pan 2) Loosened all of the caps, removed the rear one, removed all of old seal. 3) made sure grove/lip side is facing front of engine, poked new seal into block, around the crank. left 3/8" sticking out. 4) with corresponding gap, put in main rear cap, with loads of RTV black, and bolted it all up. 5) Put everything back, filled with oil, fired her up, AND IT STILL LEAKS !
Any Ideas what I did wrong? I remember a little rubber shaving off the inside of the seal as it went into the block - but that was from the inside! I did have a bit of a problem with one of the side seals also. I did my best to clean all surfaces with water and detergent.
any help is appreciated - thanks
James |
| | RE: 390 -rear main seal replacement -- John, 02/23/2003
Maybe one of the oil gallery plugs is leaking above the crank? Sounds like you did OK with the seal, but what about the oil pan gasket? I use a little RTV around the side seals as I don't trust gasket shellac to do the job there. Did you install the nails? Sometimes the nails cause the sideseals to sink lower than the block surface...so I fil them up with RTV. Did you still see the oil grooves on the crank? Not likely, but maybe the crank is worn. Also, I am not sure, but small blocks had a little pin to hold the old rope type seal. If some big blocks had the pin removed for the new type seal, perhaps the pinhole is leaking? And finally, they all leak to some extent. The FE is the most leak prone engine I've ever encountered. Despite all my efforts, I continue to develop leaks around valve cover gaskets, oil pan gaskets, dipstick tube, distributor, and front seal. Maybe you should just consider it an automatic undercoating system and relax knowing your car will never rust underneath. |
| | | 390 rear seal -- dewey, 03/13/2003
Never had a rear seal leak on my T-Bolt. make sure the crank is clean on that seal surface and put a little lithum on the seal and the seal surface , also put lithum on the nails and the rubber side rails wont slide down in the cap requiring silcone on top of them.hope this helps |
| | RE: 390 -rear main seal replacement -- Bruce Geister, 02/25/2003
I had this same problem and replaced seal and had same leak. I pulled engine and when I pressurized oil system I found one of the oil galley plugs leaked. It looked fine to the eye but wasn't....replaced 25 cent plug and fixed the leak. |
| | I agree that it's likely an oil plug... -- Dave Shoe, 02/26/2003
...at the rear of the block, however, new neoprene rear seals have been known to leak on many a reassembly.
You can purchase an extra fat neoprene seal from FelPro. I forget the exact part number, but if you determine it's truly the new rear seal leaking, I'd advise using the alternate seal.
The problem is apparently related to the diameter of the crankshaft at the rear seal, though I may not have all my facts correct.
I was recently told of this issue by an FE race engine builder here in Minneapolis, Kurt Gartner, but I don't have his phone number handy (this office is a mess!) to call for a part number of the seal.
If I get the info, I'll post it. Otherwise, you might try the FelPro tech line, as they should know about the alternate rear main seal.
Shoe. |
| | | thanks folks -- James, 02/26/2003
I've got another standard felpro gasket, and am going to try the operation again. I don't want to pull the engine if I can help it. - that's like 3 days work!! plus the heartache.
I'm going to try cleaning all surfaces thoroughly, and squirting in RTV until it comes out my ears
I'll let you know !!
James |
| | | Back of intake -- Terry, 02/26/2003
Are you sure it was the rear main in the first place.Maybe it's the intake manifold at the back running down the rear of the engine. |
| | | | RE: Back of intake -- Frank Hager, 03/03/2003
Here's what I found on a '64 FE 390 I rebuilt for my '69 F-100 several years ago. I installed a high volume/highpressure oil pump. The retro neopreme rear main seal started leaking and I changed it three times. Then I thought the cam plug behind the flywheel was leaking. Took everything apart to find it as dry as a bone. Pulled the pan again to change the seal. But this time I rechecked the bearing clearance on the rear main and it was .0035 on a standard size crank. Put a .001 undersize bearing in there to tighten things up. Guess what? Oil leak is gone and stayed gone! I'm convinced the rear main oil return to the pan couldn't handle the volume of oil it was being feed and the excess was being pumped out the seal. So, I'd recommend checking that rear main for excessive bearing clearance when you have the pan down.
PS: I've also had the same problem with the bow tie brand!! |
| | | | | +.0010 bearings? -- James, 03/04/2003
Back of intake is dry..
Did another new seal on Saturday - took my time, cleaned everything spotless, it was like an operation. IT STILL LEAKS!
Guess what: I reckon it's not the seal.
The mains are +.0020 over. - do you reckon I could try a +.0010 just on the rear one?
If this doesn't work, I guess I'll have to consider taking the engine out, and looking at these galley plugs.
thanks |
| | | | | | RE: +.0010 bearings? -- James, 03/04/2003
just had a thought:
did you put in just half of the undersize bearing?
(ie: I'll only be able to get to the top side if the engine comes out ?)
thanks |
| | | | | | RE: +.0010 bearings? -- Frank Hager, 03/04/2003
James,
You have me completely confused?
On a standard size crank a +.001 (one thousandths oversize) bearing increases oil clearence.
Whereas a -.001 (one thousandths undersize) bearing decreases oil clearence. This is perhaps the way you need to go to stop excessive oil volume to the leaking seal.
I doubt you have +.0020 (two thousandths oversize, or as you have written, twenty ten thousandths) bearing.
If your crank has been turned undersize you probably have a -.020 (twenty thousandths) under size bearing. If that's the case, you're stuck, because I've never heard or a -.021 (twenty one thousandths) undersize bearing.
If you have a standard size crank it is not uncommon to install a mixture of bearings to obtain the desired clearance. For example, if with a standard upper and lower shell your clearance is .003 and you want .025, it's OK to install one bearing shell from a -.001 bearing set to reduce the oil clearance to .025.
It's no problem to replace the upper bearing shell. Back off all the main bearing bolts to let the crank drop a little. Roll the upper shell out, and roll a new upper shell in. Retorque all the main bolts and you're in business.
Just remember, after a crank is turned you install undersize(-) bearings. Unlike when cylinders are bored out. Here you use oversize(ie.+.030, +.060) pistons and rings.
Also, make sure you install the seal with the lip in the correct direction.
One other thing. I've been told reverse rotation marine engine cranks have different oil seal mechanics than normal rotation engines. |
| | RE: 390 -rear main seal replacement -- Dewey, 03/13/2003
did you for get to put a little sealant on the mating surfaces of the main cap where it mates with the block?? Dewey |
| 390 rebuild wich heads -- Martin, 02/23/2003
Hello i am martin from holland.
I am rebuilding a 390 from 68. I am planning on putting a 4v intake C8AE on it and maybe a wilder cam in combination with adjustable rockers.
Which head shoul i use, i have got C8AE-H and C6AE-D heads.
Thanks for helping, sorry for my bad writing. |
| | RE: 390 rebuild wich heads -- Bob Sprowl, 02/23/2003
What car? The 'H' head is easier to install in Mustangs and Fairlanes.
And please remember that the factory exhaust system severly limits performance so headers are a very effective way to improve performance. |
| | | RE: Thanks bob what about hooker headers -- Martin, 02/23/2003
Thanks for your reaction Bob.
I am restoring a '69 mach 1. I bought the C6AE-U heads with the stock exhaust manifolds. In the books i read that these heads have a smaller combustion chamber. That is why i asked wich heads would be better.
About the headers my intention was to bring the mustang back to its original state. How much performance would i get when putting on some hooker headers?? |
| | | | RE: Thanks bob what about hooker headers -- Bob Sprowl, 02/23/2003
Hookers are about as good as you can buy.
The C6AE-U heads are not stock for you car the C8 heads may be but it depends on the engine. 390 or 428. |
| | | | | RE: Thanks bob what about hooker headers -- Charlie, 02/24/2003
Also bolt holes on the c8ae-h, some only have 8 holes drilled, the mustangs used a different ehxt manifold that won't match the 2 vert. bolts. |
| 390 rebuild (long) -- Todd Novak, 02/22/2003
I've got a '64 galaxie with a 390 that I'm looking at freshening up. The car has 3.50 gears and close ratio 4-spd with shortie headers. I've been surching through past posts and I want to verify which way to proceed. The heads that I'm runing now are C1AE A, I've heard alot of good about the C6AE R heads, I do have a set that could go on but want to ask you guys first, I also have a set of C0AE C heads. I've got a stock intake and I'm thinking of going with an Edelbrock perf. rpm. Which of the above heads would match up and give me the best results with an Edelbrock intake? I'm currently runing a set of aluminum valve covers with no breather holes in them, If I were to get the RPM intake can I use the rear breather hole for an oil fill spot? The car has a Federal Mogul hydraulic cam with the following specs: duration intake and exhaust 223 @ .050, cam lift of .292, valve lift of .514 intake and exhaust, lobe ctrs intake 110, exhaust 114. Is there a better cam that I should be using? I use the car for a daily driver, but like to run it hard. Sorry it's so long but I want to do it right the first time.
Thanks, Todd |
| | RE: 390 rebuild (long) -- Bob Sprowl, 02/22/2003
Its my opinion that the C1AE-A heads are better that the C6ae-R heads as they have a better match to your exhaust manifolds and will work well with the RPM manifold.
I haven't seen a C0AE heads (just pictures) so I can't comment on them.
DSCMotorSports has a nice breather of the type you need. I think you could use it as a oil filter also but check with them.
|
| | RE: 390 rebuild (long) -- dewey, 03/13/2003
A better cam , dual profile, 224 and 234 @ .050 , 290 and 300 at the valve, .536 and 562 lift with a 105 int center line and a 115 ex center line with a 110 lobe center separation. If you would like one i can grind it for you. this profile has a lot of low end to mid range power. No need for high rpms which a FE does not like unless a lot of bottom end mods are done. If you need the cam, call me 251/666-7187 DEWEY |
| axle code -- Pete Robinson, 02/22/2003
I have been attempting, without success, to decipher the axle code from the door data plate of a 1968 R-code Cobra Jet Mustang that I am considering buying. The axle code is "X", and the tag on the rear end itself is missing. I would appreciate anybody's input in regards to this. I also would like to know the source of your information. |
| | X is not a valid code for 1968 axle... -- Dan Davis, 02/23/2003
...The only X axle code Ford used from 1965-72 was for the 1969 Mustang "E." It was a 2.33:1 Traction Lok.
Better double check that stamping or pull the Marti Report to be sure.
Regards, Dan Davis Get your Master Parts Catalogs here: http://www.sea-tools.com/mpc |
| | | my 68 1/2 has............ -- Pete's Ponies, 02/25/2003
that code. It is for a 3.91 used with CJs. |
| | "X" axle code -- Royce Peterson, 02/23/2003
The "X" axle code is common in 1968 1/2 Cougars and Mustangs. It is 3.91 Traction - Loc.
Royce |
| | | RE: "X" axle code -- Scott Hollenbeck, 02/24/2003
Royce is correct. Another code that appears on cars but not in most literature is "Y", for a 4.30:1 traction-lok.
Scott Hollenbeck Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Registry http://www.428cobrajet.org |
| dual valve spring questions -- Geoff McNew, 02/21/2003
1. What's the consensus - trim your own valve guides with the little cutter/arbor tool the cam makers sell or have a shop do it? Anyone have problems with flaking off pieces, or do the little cutters do a great job?
2. Also, how much spring is too much / too little? I'm running a 428 SCJ, CJ heads and valves. It will have Erson roller rockers (Apr. 14th ship date!) The new cam is a Crane hyd. 234/238 @ 0.050", .554"/.563", 112 lobe separation. Crane's spring recommendation seems pretty light, but then again I don't plan to turn it over 6200. |
| | RE: dual valve spring questions -- Bob Sprowl, 02/22/2003
I alwas use the cam manufacturers recommended springs unless I have read of problems with that specific cam and springs - which is vary rare. |
| | RE: dual valve spring questions -- Charlie, 02/22/2003
I'd have my machinist do it. If they have any miles on them they'll need new guides and exh valves any way. Its a good warm feeling inside to know things were done right. Charlie |
| | RE: dual valve spring questions -- Gerry Proctor, 02/24/2003
Go with Crane's recommended springs. There is no way that cam would use a double spring. Probably around 120lbs on the seat and 300 or so over the nose. Don't confuse a double spring and a single spring with an inner damper. They are not the same. Using higher spring rates where there is no recommendation for it invites lifter and cam lobe failure. The break-in method is different for double and triple spring installations. |
| | | RE: dual valve spring questions -- Geoff McNew, 02/24/2003
I'm using a single with dampner now. depending on installed height & brand, I can find doubles with a dampner that give around 330# open & 110-120 seating, or a tad thicker wires and get around 380# open and 145# seating. The engine will see 6000-6200 rpm, but you think the lighter springs are still o.k.?
Re: break-in, I know you're supposed to go through like 3 full compressions to coil bind and THEN set the installed heights. What else am I missing? |
| | RE: O.K., Geoff... -- Gerry Proctor, 02/25/2003
You seem to persist in something other than what Crane recommends. I went to their site: http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/ford44.htm and reviewed the specs for the H-296-2 cam and they try make it plain and simple. They lay it all out in front of God and everybody...even machining the guides.
If you want to use a double spring or a spring set that exceeds Crane's recommendation, you are in dangerous territory. The break-in method for stiff springs is to use either a light break-in spring or rockers with significantly reduced ratio. If you try to break in a cam with a double or triple spring installed, you have a very good chance of wiping a cam lobe.
You do not get better performance from a stiffer spring if you can't make power at the limit of the spring. Once you are spinning the engine past the limitations of the cam, intake, heads, or exhaust you are only making noise. If you check the cam card, Crane will tell you at what point you should expect to experience valve float with their recommended springs. If you experience float at a significantly lower rpm, then you probably have a problem with installed height or retainer height.
These are not the dark ages, Geoff. We no longer speak words like 3/4 race cam and have to trundle through the dark trying to find compatible parts. The cam grinders have quite a bit of experience in putting together a package of parts that are engineered to work together and go to great lengths to share that with the public. The reason for this is to give the non-NASCAR experienced builder the most likely prospect for a good outcome. Crane would like you to have a good experience with their products.
My personal opinion is that your best bet for success is to follow Crane's advice regardless of your opinion of the open and closed pressures.
Hope this helps. |
| | | Gerry, I got more problems -- Geoff McNew, 02/25/2003
I started to tear down these old CJ heads with single spring and dampner and umbrella seals. I find that the guides (bronze) have been knurled. They also were cut down to fit a dual spring with the PC seals at one time. The spring seat around the guides looks tortured to put it best. I don't think you can use the teflon PC seals with knurled guides b/c of lack of oil? I'm thinking I now have my excuse(s) to go with the Edelbrock heads.
I spoke with Edelbrock and these heads use a 5792 single spring with dampner and regular umbrella seals; I get 130 lbs at 1.885" and around 330 lbs. open, which should be fine, agree?
From the FE forum I see just about everyone loves their Edelbrock heads. Way to go?
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| | | | RE: They address a number of problems. -- Gerry Proctor, 02/25/2003
I'm using the Edelbrock heads myself. Saves a lot of trouble trying to ressurect thrashed factory heads. What more could you ask for? Medium riser ports in aluminum with Edelbrock's reputation. They fit and they work. |
| | | | | RE: They address a number of problems. -- Geoff McNew, 02/25/2003
That's it! They're on order. ...I'm still gonna paint 'em Ford blue though! |
| | | | | | Some things to also consider: -- Gerry Proctor, 02/26/2003
Get the rocker studs and arp head bolts to go with the heads. You don't necessarily need the adjustable rocker arms that Edelbrock cautions. It really depends on the lifters you're using. I had a pushrod length issue with Crane rockers and while I was reconciling that, I used the stock non-adjustable rockers and they worked just fine. Anti-pump up lifter require a specific preload to work properly and that's where the adjustable rockers are preferred.
When you are ready to mount the intake, check the head's oil drainback holes to ensure that your intake gaskets don't obstruct the holes.
Understand that the exhaust bolt pattern uses either the 8-bolt pattern or the 16-bolt CJ pattern. It depends on which heads you get. The non-CJ unibody manifolds do not fit either head and you'll need to either use a CJ manifolds or headers. |
| | | | | | | RE: Some things to also consider: -- Geoff McNew, 02/26/2003
Gerry, I'm gonna be using Erson's roller rockers and shafts/bases (mid-April delivery at best!). I corresponded with a fellow named Bill Troth late last year, also using Erson Rockers with Edelbrock heads (the bigger chamber & valve 427 version). He had to clearance the underside of the Erson bases just a tad to clear his taller head ARP head bolts, the bolt heads at either end only; I believe the (3) in between didn't hit the underside. He did not use head bolt washers either.
My Ford head bolts look good - re-use 'em? They are not torque-to-yield type so this should be o.k.?
I will definitely use the ARP shaft studs Edelbrock recommends.
Oh, my headers are Hooker for CJ heads with the 16 cap screws.
I'm using an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake -do I use the Edelbrock gasket recommendations? Guess that goes for the exhaust gaskets too?
Thanks for your advise & counsel -geoff |
| | | | | | | | RE: Some things to also consider: -- Gerry Proctor, 02/26/2003
You really don't want to reuse your factory bolts if you can avoid it. The ARP bolts are made with a corresponding parallel-ground washer that keeps the bolt from brinelling the head as the head moves around during heat cycles. They are also much better in the threads and clamping precision.
I'm using the recommended Felpro gaskets. Some folks have had problems with sealing on the intake but mine are fine. You have to be very careful in placing the manifold on the heads to ensure that it is a perfect fit to the head surface. I don't know if you have installed the RPM intake yet and if you have you are already aware of this but if not: A couple of the intake bolts will need to be trimmed down a bit since they won't clear the generous radius of some of the ports. You'll also have to grind down the port side of the distributor hold down since the manifold port won't let it fit. |
| | | | | | | | | There is another reason to use ARP head bolts -- James, 02/27/2003
The Edelbrock heads will not accept the stock head bolts. The heads that I bought in 1999 from them had small countersinks that prevents a person from using a regular socket on them to torque them down. I was working on a shoe string budget and cut down a 3 Craftsman sockets to make them work. I broke 2 of them torqueing the heads down. If those heads ever have to come off they getting the ARP bolts or an acceptable equivelant. |
| | | | | | | | | | RE: There is another reason to use ARP head bolts -- Geoff McNew, 02/27/2003
Now that's reality! Thanks, James. |
| | | | | | | | | RE: Some things to also consider: -- Geoff McNew, 02/27/2003
I dunno, Gerry. I don't see how the ARP head bolts will work with washers for me and my Erson rockers when they didn't work without washers unless this other fella said "GRIND". But...as in all things, we will see. Btw, I'm sorry for misunderstandings...the car runs/has run/did run/ran for 2 years with Edelbrock manifold (3different bolt lengths and a few spacers...one supports the shaker...all very interesting). It ran 104 with wifee on board and a full tank - a pubic hair under 4000 lbs.....yet with only 9.5:1 compression and (as I now degreededuced) both the cam & timing retarded 6 degrees....& that's why I'm an FE believer - I figure the thing was 30-40 hp off just because the guy who built the engine didn't properly find TDC and degree the cam....I get this thing hopped up a bit, timed & tuned right...and with my Comp Engr. bars and cheater slicks...it's gotta start to work...right? |
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