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 |  How do FEs like dual pattern cams? -- Chuck Brandt, 12/11/2002
What do you guys think of Crane H-272-2 for my 352 project? .533 intake, .563 exhaust 216 duration intake, 228 exhaust.
352 will have 9.5:1 compression, C4AE-G heads with CJ sized valves and a little pocket porting, headers and some aluminum dual plane intake with Holley 600 cfm.
Going into a '66 F-100 with 3spd manual and 3.28:1 rearend gears.
Chuck
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|  | RE: How do FEs like dual pattern cams? -- Gerry Proctor, 12/11/2002
Dual pattern cams don't have nearly the impact in the FE as they do in other engines. That's because FE heads (even the smogger heads) have pretty good exaust port flow.
They don't hurt, but they certainly don't make that much of a difference unless you're running a really restrictive exhaust. |
| |  | Comp cams says they like them pretty well.. -- James, 12/13/2002
I spent some time on the phone with the oldest tech there and according to him the dual pattern cams are good on the FE because every stock Ford head has got a restricted exhaust port according to his data. The bigger lift or longer duration helps it out. I ordered a dual pattern for my 428 and I couldn't be happier with it. I used the 268H cam because I have PB and an Auto trans. It was a big difference from the Lunati single pattern 223 duration cam. I haven't taken it to the track since the cam swap but the seat of the pants feel meter is pegged. ;-) |
| | |  | Dual pattern cams.... -- Royce Peterson, 12/13/2002
Actually there are reasons to go either way. A dual pattern cam can give you a decent idle with good idle vacuum but still pull hard at higher RPM's.
A single pattern cam can be a good choice for a targeted RPM range. It will give better power in its range than a dual pattern cam of similar lift and duration.
In the case off the 268H the cam is designed for good mid range power in an engine with 410 - 428 CI. It is a single pattern cam. Single pattern means identical lobe design on intake and exhaust. Here's a link to the specs:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/174_175.html#Anchor
Like Gerry says the FE actually has good exhaust ports compared to something like a small block Ford.
Royce |
| | | | 268AH-10 Comp Cam Specs right from the sheet. -- James, 12/15/2002
Part number 33-306-4. The duration on the intake side it 222 at .050 and 226 on the exhaust qualifying it as a dual pattern cam. The lift is .544 on both intake and exhaust sides. I couldn't be happier with it. I know that there are poeple with hotter cams that run alot harder but for my application it seems to be really good. |
| | | | | James, you said 268H in your original post. -- Royce Peterson, 12/15/2002
Hard to talk about apples when you are asking about oranges.
Royce |
| | | | | | A thousand pardons for my oversite... -- James, 12/15/2002
I thought that I should set the record straight as to what I was realy talking about. Pardon my misprint. |
| | | | | |  | Run adjustable rockers over .500 lift -- james, 08/29/2005
It is coming back to me now. You have to run adjustables over that lift. You can also do yourself a big favoe by buying the thicker rocker shafts from Pricision. Royce can give the best info on all of that. I have washed my hands of the FE motors. I have gon 460. |
| | | | | James tell me about your Comp Cams 268AH? -- KSKI, 08/29/2005
James you talked about that Comp Cams (33-306-4) 268AH you used, what kind of set up are you using, from vehicle drive train to engine build up.
I like the cam specs you talk about and am thinking about using it myself in a 390 with non-adj. rockers, can it be done?
[Post relocated by Admin.] |
| | | | | | RE: James tell me about your Comp Cams 268AH? -- james, 08/29/2005
It has been to long since I built that engine to tell you that for sure. One good way to unshroud that mistery is to call the 1-800 number for Comp Cams and ask the technicians. The are very knowlegable.
I sold that car about 2 years ago. The owner just raves about that cam. He is welcome to his opinion.
If I had it to do over again and money was not such a ditermining factor, I would buy a stall converter and something with a slightly lumpier duration to it. From what I remember that 268ah-10 pushed that stock converter for all it was worth at idle. It did run good but the 428 responds well to racier durations like 232 degrees provided you are not going to drive it on a daily basis. Hope this helps you. |
| | RE: 352 pistons? -- SDP, 12/13/2002
Hey Chuck, what piston are you going to be using in the 352? Curious also on why you are stepping up to the CJ/LR sized valves as well................................ |
| | | RE: 352 pistons? -- Chuck Brandt, 12/13/2002
About all I can find are cast pistons, PAW and other places have master rebuild kits with them in so I figure I can find them somewhere. I have to see how worn out the blocks are, I might switch to a 390.
After searching this site for the two sets of heads I have to choose from (C4AE-G and C6AE-R) most of the experts suggested it, I also found a set of valves pretty reasonable on ebay.
The cam I'm considering and head mods might be a little over the top for this little motor but I'm curious what can be done with it for not too much money.
Chuck |
| | | | RE: 352 valve size -- SDP, 12/14/2002
Chuck, even at a .060" overbore, I still think the "bigger" valves will be shrouded so the gain would be minimal if any. Pistons are not to hard to find yet, but they are spendy compared to a 390. Also the replacement pistons on the market dont help a person build any comp. ratio at all. I had to cut a LOT of material off of the decks on our motor to get the piston even close to the deck for good quench. Dont know if you have messed around with a 352 before, but they can "Run".............. |
| | | | | RE: 352 valve size -- Chuck Brandt, 12/14/2002
Yes I'm kinda interested in how the bigger valves will fit the bore myself. On my 427 there is a chamfered area above the rings to unshroud the valves. I wonder if I couldn't do that in this case. Anyway you are probably right, but the valves are here so I'm still planning on using them. I have not built a 352 before, what do you think of the cam? Crane H272-2, do you think that is too much? For compression 9:1 - 10:1 is fine with me, I want to run pump gas. |
| | | | | | RE: Cam -- SDP, 12/15/2002
Chuck, that Crane grind sounds like a good choice for what your planning on doing with the motor. I would definetly "notch" the top of the bores for the valves. I will tell you now, that we had to cut around .070"(yes seventy!) off of the decks to acheive an average .008"-.010" in the hole for the pistons which were Fed Mogul. The reason being that the replacement pistons are made with a lower comp. height than the originals. E-mail me directly for some other piston ideas that might work better for compression purposes................................................................. |
| | RE: How do FEs like dual pattern cams? -- giacamo, 08/30/2005
I,v used the comp 265h duel lift cam in many bilds from the 390 to the 428 with great reselts with the comp springs that mach .....pickups and heavy car custermers seam to love the way it preforms.on a lighter car 4 spead low gears i tend to step my cam selection up but try to stay with a lift i dont haft to do a bunch of machining to the heads to fit taller springs with.and start having to noch pistons...... |
| | | RE: How do FEs like dual pattern cams? -- walt, 09/09/2005
you are right giacomo,i like them split timing cams for te big blocks,them ford exhaust ports are weak,more timming on the exhast,,to cover up the port defficencies,and headers DID help |
| C8AE-H exhaust porting -- Larry F, 12/11/2002
I've got a couple sets of these heads and I was wondering if its a good idea to grind that hump out of the bottom part of the port. Can a person install larger valves on the exhaust side? I 've got headers for a CJ head. Will they leak? What are these heads worth? One set is off of a 428 block and the other off of a 390 GT(according to the people who sold it to me).One set are 8 bolt but have the bosses there to drill the other holes. The other set are 16 bolt. Thanks in advance for any help. |
| | RE: C8AE-H exhaust porting -- Gerry Proctor, 12/11/2002
Removing material from the exhaust port's floor will not help and may hurt flow. You always want to raise the port roof and exit as much as possible.
Yes you can install larger exhaust valves. Most go to the 428 CJ/406 sized 1.66. Just remember that you have to blend the bowl for it to do any good.
Header fit is always a crap shoot when dealing with the 8-14-16 bolt pattern. It really gets complicated when you are installing headers in the unibody (Mustang/Fairlane) chassis. The 14-bolt head is missing the lower two inner bolts and the upper two inner bolt holes are lower than most header flanges. The eight and 16-bolt vertical bolts are in the same location but headers for the 16-bolt CJ pattern don't fit well with the smogger heads (C8AE-H). I know you intend on drilling the holes in the proper location but that doesn't ensure a good header seal. By the way, 16-bolt heads are CJ heads and are cast C8OE-6090-N. You will get the best header fit if you really have a set of CJ heads since the port is in the right location for most headers. |
| blowby -- jason, 12/11/2002
Ijust rebuilt my 390 40 over decked 0 l2291f40 slugs c4ae-g heads solid cam 240@50 576lift we built it to run hard with a bottle. but before i go that far i seem to have more than normal blowby only 600 miles but runs hard any ideas? |
| SCAT Cranks -- John, 12/10/2002
A few days ago I saw three SCAT 428 cranks on E-Bay. One standard stoke and two overstroked. The auctions must be over and I can't find them again, however I read the ad for the standard 428 crank and it claimed to be machined for zero balance. So I take it a 390 or 427 flywheel is required. Anybody know anything about why they would do this? Also, it was interesting that the starting price was $799.....the same price you can buy one for on the FlatLander website (now up from their earlier listing of around $500+). |
| | RE: SCAT Cranks -- BEAR, 12/11/2002
because the weighted dampner and flywheel flexplates are a pain findining. Plus after market flywheels and sfi dampner are all zero balanced. and less reciprocating weight equals free horses. |
| Id motor -- WAYNE S., 12/10/2002
Can somebody please tell me what a d4te eng is is it a truck eng or what bore is 4. 073 and stroke is 3. 98 pistons are stamped. 030 on tops need this info for attorney. |
| | RE: Id motor -- Dale, 12/10/2002
It's a '74 390, .030 over. What's just below the deck on the front driver's side? 352? "mirror" 105? nothing? Is there extra webbing aroud the 3 middle mains? Is there a big "X" cast into the driver's side just below the lifter gallery? |
| | | RE: Id motor -- jason, 12/10/2002
Isn't a 390 3.78? |
| | | | RE: Id motor -- Bob Sprowl, 12/10/2002
Jason you are right. Somebody put a 428 crank in that making a 410.
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| | | | | RE: Id motor -- jason, 12/11/2002
what is the differance in tq and hp over a 390? |
| | | | | | RE: Id motor -- Bob Sprowl, 12/11/2002
For 1966 engines (the standard 390 not the GT) all used the same heads, intake, cam, similar carbs, premium fuel and restrictive log exhaust manifolds and got:
390 - 315 hp @ 4600 427 ft-lbs @ 2800
410 - 330 hp @ 4600 444 ft-lbs @ 2800
428 - 345 hp @ 4600 462 ft-lbs @ 2800 |
| | | | | | | RE: Id motor -- jason, 12/11/2002
thanx |
| | | | | | | | RE: Id motor -- WAYNE S., 12/11/2002
does the D4TE STAND FOR "1974 TRUCK ENGINE"? |
| | | RE: Id motor -- WAYNE S., 12/11/2002
yes it does have "105" cast on front and drivers side lower block just below oil filter outlet. also this motor does not have a screw on oil filter adaptor it has a block of metal from ford with holes in it for 2 hoses to hook up to it like for remote filter ,doesnt 428 block have cast oil filter mounts ? you dont know how important this is to me thank you so much |
| | | | RE: Id motor -- Dale, 12/11/2002
The oil filter adaptor attaches to your block with 4 small bolts. I suspect this remote adaptor has the same pattern. The regular adaptors are available from Ford or you can get one from the wrecking yard for almost nothing. The ones from 1968 and later engines have larger oil passages. |
| Torque Converter suggestions -- Dave, 12/10/2002
I have a 67 Mustang with a 428 out of a T Bird, running 10.5/1 Comp, mildly ported heads, adjustable rockers,Ford A411 cam, Edelbrock RPM manifold, Holley Carb (flows685cfm), C-6 with close ratio 1st,2nd gears with 3:25 gears, trac lok. I am currently running a diesel converted, suggested by old time Ford Tranny mechanic. It seems to have a slight bog at about 3000rpm and seems to be gobbling horsepower. Done loads of tests on carb, timing, vacuums etc. Thats not the problem. House of Cobra in Anaheim, believes the problem is with the torque converter. Any suggestions on a different converter with this set up. |
| good news bad timeing baby comeing -- jr, 12/09/2002
hay any body out there won't my new toy
64 xl, vin= 4a66Q112178 wife just told me to day
new baby on the way (go fig) just got the 1
thing i allways won'ted but now i just got somthing
better so i fig i would offer to u guys first
for just what i paid 8500 im in tn
thanks for all your help fi no one wonts it i will
try e-bay or himmings.
thanks jr |
| | RE: congrats Jr. -- Mike McQuesten, 12/09/2002
I like your priorities Jr. Congratulations. Is there anyway you could post some pics here of the '64 -Q-code? Of course I'm interested in "looking" at this rare car but I'm not a serious buyer. We'd like to have a look and who knows maybe someone lurking here..... |
| | | RE: thanks mike i will try to post pics -- jr, 12/10/2002
gotta get some help never put pics on befor
an ya i'm proud yesssssssss maby a son
its is our first ben 9 years trying so thanks agane
jr |
| | | | RE: thanks mike i will try to post pics -- Greg, 12/10/2002
Where in TN?
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| | | | | RE: 45 miles west of nashville on I-40 -- jr, 12/11/2002
my ph# is 615- 441-3450 = 7am-9am==8pm=11pm
work ph# 615-740-7770 =10am==7.45=pm
you can call an ask abought the car .
i will try my best to tell you what i can
anyone who is wonting a 64 ford will love this car
its black,verry fast it will run 72 mph in 2 with 2 more
to go will hide spedo in 3 thanks
jr |
| | | | | | If you need help with posting pix just email... -- Dan Davis, 12/11/2002
...them to me & I will post 'em for ya.
Regards,
Dan |
| | | | | | | Hey JR congrats!! -- Larry F, 12/11/2002
Sounds like you're doubly lucky! And can't wait to see pics of car. |
| 428 Police Interceptor -- Gary, 12/09/2002
Were there any 428 Police Interceptor engines with solid lifter cams? Any information reqarding cam specs, horsepower ratings, etc. will be appreciated. |
| | RE: '66 428 Police Interceptor -- Mike McQuesten, 12/09/2002
The '66 428PI ran the standard 427 -aa- 306 degree duration/.500 lift solid lifter camshaft. They were rated at 360 horsepower.
As I've said before I was fortunate enough to work in a Shell station in '66 where some Washington State Patrolman filled up with Super Shell Ethyl with TCP(the Patrolman knew that was Tom Cat Piss but they didn't care). I always asked them if they wanted the oil checked. They'd always laugh at me and say something about how I'd never make a good patrolman with my greasy long hair. And why would I think a new Ford would need oil? "Maybe that's why you should check the oil boy..... it's a Ford!" Yuk Yuk patrolboy. Of course all I wanted to do was just look at the big block Ford some more to keep the dream alive of making a switcheroo with my '66 390 GT/A. That '66 428PI would of made a fine upgrade option over the weak sister 390GT.
What was amazing was how well they idled. Big muffs kept the cruisers quiet but the click of those solids was beautiful. I never took to the '67 WSP patrol cars. They idled just like my GTA....too smooth. |
| | | RE: '66 428 Police Interceptor -- Pete's Ponies, 12/10/2002
good story ! |
| | | | Does that mean that ... -- DeanGT428, 12/11/2002
all '66 PI 428s were solid lifters? If so, does that mean that the lifter galleries were not drilled for oiling? |
| | | | | RE: Does that mean that ... -- McQ, 12/11/2002
Yes the '66 428PI's were solid lifters. In my big ol'wordy story I missed making the point. That's what the 306/500 427 cam was.
Good question regarding the '66 428PI blocks and oiling provisions for or lack of for the solids. I've not had the good fortune of owning or tearing down a genuine '66 428 PI...yet. It seems that I remember that the '66 '28PI was specially cast without oil passages drilled for hydraulics.
I know a guy who when he had his '64 390PI rebuilt he was told by the machine shop that he had to stick with a solid lifter cam. I'd always assumed that was the case for the solid lifter 428 too. |
| | | | | | RE: '66 PI solid -- Courtney Bolze, 12/12/2002
I recall a '66 428 PI parted out and traded around a while back, it had shell solid lifters, not drilled for hydraulics, not webed around 2,3 &4 mains, 406 rods and I got the oil fliter adapter with a strange port location for the sending unit and an XE part number. |
| | | | | | | RE: '66 PI solid -- Mike, 01/01/2003
Found out the hard way that some were drilled for hydrulics and plugged. I bought a '66 PI, it was drilled for hydraulics. I tore it down not paying alot of attention to the cam/lifters that came out, Iooked at the back of the block and saw it was hyd, so that's what I put in, big mistake. Tore it back down after going thru 2 sets of lifters. The rear oil gallies had plugs driven in them way down. The oddball things never end with FE's, never say never...... |
| | | | | | | | And before the 428...... -- kevin, 01/03/2003
the 390 PI cam was something like 282 duration with .446 lift or so. This cam was carried over to the Marine 427 rated at 300 HP. It is close to the 62 "M" Bird's grind of 286-.458 specs, and idles like a kitten, yet gives strong mid range performance. |
| 410 bores -- WAYNE S., 12/09/2002
I have d4te engine with. 030 over pistons, ive measures bore 4. 073,stroke 3. 98,can this motor be bored to 428 size and can internals still be retained[crank,rods}. |
| 406 Balancer? -- saint, 12/09/2002
My friend has a C1AE-6316-A Balancer he wants to sell.Is this a 406 Balancer?? |
| | RE: 406 Balancer? -- Mike McQuesten, 12/09/2002
Yes it is. I have one right here with that exact casting number on it C1AE-6316-A. This balancer/Damper was used on '60 HP352, '61-'62 HP390 and the '62-'63 406 which was of course nothing but High Performance. There's no confusion on 406s.
Two old Ford publications I have list the part # for that Damper to be C1AZ-6312-A. Remember that's not the number cast into the damper you're looking at. It's just the part number. |
| | | RE: 406 Balancer? -- saint, 12/09/2002
Thanks Mike.My friend told me this was for sure off his old 406 Motor but I wanted to make sure before I put it up for sale for him.He wants me to put it on E-Bay for him.What is a fair price for one of these without being greedy?Wayne |
| | | | RE: 406 Balancer? -- Mike McQuesten, 12/09/2002
Before eBay? A fair price was $50. But eBay has expanded the market immensely thus the fair market value escalates. Sounds like Econ. 101 huh? My opinion based on watching items like this on ebay is it'll fetch $150 minimum. |
| | | | | RE: 406 Balancer? -- saint, 12/10/2002
Thanks Mike .Hopefully there are people interested.Wayne |
| | | | | | Hold on there a moment..... -- kevin, 12/10/2002
all my 406's had C2AE DAMPERS on them. The part is identical to the C4 427 piece. It should weigh about 12 pounds. The early hi-po 352-390 ones were skinny, and larger diameter. Can you show some pics? |
| | | | | | | RE: Hold on there a moment..... -- Mike McQuesten, 12/10/2002
At one time I thought that too kevin. But in looking at some pics and two official FoMoCo publications the same part # is indicated for the 390 balancer as the 406 and the 352HP too.
But real world application means a lot more than what Ford books say.
At one time I assumed the '62 406 ran with the same balancer as the '60/'61early '62 HP apps. Then the '63 406 got the C2AE "427 style" damper. Again that was an assumption.
The casting # provided is defintely the one extra I have which came off of a '61 HP. And again the books I have show the same part # for 352-390-406 HP apps.
Okay, I went and got three publications that show clearly the early style HP balancer on 406s.
First, Vol 62, PSM 143, the complete parts list for the '62-'63 406. The engine is a tri power with the longer C2Ae exhaust manifolds but it has the exact same harmonic balancer as the one described by Wayne.
Second, A Ford publication, High Performance Parts, Volume 65 PSM 59. On p. 27 it shows very clearly two 406s, one a 4V and one the 6V. The 4V has the shorty exhaust and the tri power has the long style HP manifolds. Both have the exact same balancers which look identical to my '60 HP(which does have a COAE casting #) and the '61HP I have with the C1AE #.
Third, Hot Rod Ford Performance handbook, 1962, shows what appears to be a tri power 406 on the cover. It has the long C2AE- exhaust and the balancer? Yup, the unique large with numerous holes and a single groove pulley.
That Ford '65 publication does show the C2AE-6316-B (Identification number) to have a part # of C3AZ-6312-F.
As alway, just contributing what I can with as much documentation as I can but I'm always looking to learn more. |
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