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 |  C4ae-g -- Eric, 08/01/2001
You guys really know what you're looking for in a head. Just looking for a little imput before I have these heads built. I'm thinking hardened seats, staainless valves, maybe mill them smooth if needed. Nothing crazy. Advice is certainly appreciated. And any ideas what the compression ratio is on these? Thanks in advance. Eric |
|  | RE: C4ae-g -- Travis Miller, 08/01/2001
Hardened seats and light milling just for a flat surface okay, but why go to the expense of stainless valves?
Another thing that is very important on FE heads is to mill the exhaust side for a good surface to seal the manifolds or headers.
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|  | Thanks guys, now just a couple more questons -- Eric, 08/02/2001
How much of a difference will CJ valves actually make in these heads? Are they worthwhile? Also, someone posted awhile back (sorry i can't remember who) that hardened seats may be a unnecessary expense unless you're racing it. I'm just looking for a driver that will go when I want it to, but I only want to do this once so I want to do it right. What do you think? Thanks again. Eric |
| | | RE: hardened seats? -- Mike McQuesten, 08/02/2001
Just an opinion based on things heard and read over recent years. Hardened seats are a good idea if you're planning on a driver that uses nothing but unleaded pump fuels. It sounds like this is what you plan so you'll need the hardened exhaust seats.
Higher compression for racing only? The use of leaded racing fuel will eliminate the need for the hardened seats. Occasional racing with 10.1/higher compression ratio, you'll probably use racing fuel for race day and some for street driving mixed with high octane unleaded. I've understood that even occasional use of leaded racing fuel eliminates the need for hardened seats. |
| | | | RE: hardened seats? -- gerry, 08/02/2001
You're rendering the previous advice on hardned seats in abstract, Eric.
The advice has always been conditional. If you are using unleaded fuel (pump or racing) the engine is in the car and the heads are on the engine and don't need a valve job, you really have little to gain by pulling the heads off just to have hardned seats installed. You will only see the effects of using unleaded fuel on soft seats over a very long time period -over 40k to 50k miles, or over a much shorter period if the engine is used in hard service (such as racing, or trailer hauling, or a boat). it's an rpm and heat relativity.
The best advice regarding the seats is to have it done when the heads are off the engine for a valve job or other service. |
| | | | | Well, there you go. -- Eric, 08/02/2001
I'm doing a minor rebuild right now on a 390 I just purchased running reasonably well in a car with 100K miles on it. Figured I'd give it a quick once over so I don't get a surprise in a year or two. Heads are already off and I was at least going to get them ground, due to the fact that the motor has a weak cylinder. Now, is it worth putting the CJ valves in? I am putting in the Performer RPM cam and springs. Thanks.
Eric |
| | | | | | RE: Well, there you go. -- Mike McQuesten, 08/02/2001
As for the CJ valves.......it seems that since you've selected the Performer RPM cam/springs, you're looking for upper RPM horsepower? Right? I can't remember the specs on the E-brock RPM cam but it seems that it's a pretty radical street cam. You've said that you just want to do a quick rebuild and this engine is for the street, so why this cam? What intake do you plan? If you're looking to build a Performer RPM 390, it would be a good idea to install the larger valves to take advantage of the higher RPMs you'll have available. Again it seems you said you wanted this to be a street 390. My opinion is that you'd be happier with the Performer cam/springs; standard 390 valves; and a performer intake w/600 cfm carb. This kit works great with a stock torque convertor and reasonable gears, i.e., 3.25 or 3.50. |
| | | | | | | valves -- Eric, 08/03/2001
I'm going with the Perormer RPM intake and I thought I would match the cam+carb to that. The car is a 4 speed and the gears are 4:11 both factory. This is not going to be a daily driver, I want to have fun with it. What about the Performer RPM intake with the performer cam and standard valves? |
| | | | | | | | RE: valves -- Mike McQuesten, 08/04/2001
Knowing what you've told us now, yes, the P-RPM intake, cam & kit will work great even with the standard 390 valves. However, I still think stepping up to 2.09/1.66 is a good move at this time of rebuild. What car is this that came with factory 4.11s? |
| | | | | | | |  | RE: valves -- Eric, 08/05/2001
Actually It's a 66 Fairlane Z code car, and I was told when I bought it that it was a factory 4 speed, 4v, 4.11 but I just bought a shop manual yesterday and the steepest gears offered in 66 were 3.89 so with no door tag and no rear end tag I just raised a bunch of questions. Does anyone know if the 66 fairlane z-codes came with a specific ratio or did they vary? Thanks again for all the imput.
Eric |
| Timing advance -- Paul, 07/31/2001
With the timing advanced to around 10, my 352 seems to be peppier and more frisky. Is this a potential problem? Am I in danger of frying out anything? Please let me know, any imput is greatly appreciated |
| | If you're not pinging, then it's good. -- Dave Shoe, 07/31/2001
Pinging is the danger when you advance the distributor timing. If ignored, pinging can generate excessive cylinder pressures and eventually cause severe engine damage. Pinging also tends to accompany a general power loss, due to all the misplaced cylinder pressure.
You might try advancing the distributor further until you start to hear pinging - just so you know what the timing is set when it becomes a problem. Then dial it back to where it runs best for ya.
Note also that the distributor advance curve will sometimes prevent pinging under load at low RPMs but enhance it under load at high RPMs. The reverse can also be true. A reasonably calibrated distributor will tend to balance the timing so the engine will start to ping under load with both high RPMs and low RPMs at about the same octane. If your car is quiet, it's easy to hear mild pinging, allowing you to dial the distributor timing right in.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| |  | Dave Shoe -- Paul, 08/01/2001
Dave, thanks for your input, I'll try your suggestions. |
| | | RE: Steering Box -- marty vogler, 08/03/2001
I plan on attemping to take some play out of my '69 CJ manual steering box this weekend. Any suggestions would be helpfull as to how much and which direction to turn adjustment. |
| | RE: Timing advance -- Neppy, 08/02/2001
Out of curiosity, Paul, what is the compression ratio on yours? 9.3:1 or is it a truck engine? |
| | | Neppy -- Paul, 08/02/2001
My 352 is the original engine in my 65' Galaxie 500xl convertible. Any additional thoughts? |
| Frying points -- Joshua Carroll, 07/30/2001
I recently bought a Mallory mechanical advance dual point distributor (25 series). For some reason I am frying the points every 2-3k miles. A set of Mallory replacement points costs $35 so I want to figure out what the hell is wrong! I am using an MSD split fire 2 coil. I am pretty sure the ignition wire has a resistor to drop the voltage to 9V after starting. Any help is greatly appreciated! |
| | The condenser is what saves points. -- Dave Shoe, 07/30/2001
Your condenser is either defective, or it's of the wrong value for the application. I suspect it's defective, as they frequently are.
Before you replace it, you might want to crank the engine and observe the amount of arcing and sparking the points do at the contacts when the cap is off. Sparking should be minimal, but it probably won't be in your case.
Upon installation of a good condenser, point-contact sparking should almost disappear. You may have to double-up or triple up stock condensers if you don't have the specifically recommended one for your coil and ballast combo - extras can go outside the distributor and be placed at the coil terminal for space convenience.
Remember, it's more likely that you've got a defective condenser than an improperly valued one, but I'm just guessing, as usual.
Shoe. |
| | RE: Frying points -- Ross, 07/31/2001
I would assume the Mallory wants a resistor in line, like the stock Ford. Check your voltage to the positive side of the coil in the "run" position, it should be 7-9 volts or so as a guess, but not battery voltage.
If it is battery voltage, put a ballast resistor in line on the coil feed. You can run 12v to the coil for short periods of time, like Ford did from the solenoid at initial start up, but it will burn points quickly if run continuously like that |
| | RE: Frying points -- John, 07/31/2001
Well, well.....Bad news I'm afraid.....my Mallory ditributor does the same thing. Yes, a condensor supresses the arc that is generated when the points open and the coil doesn't want to stop flowing current. A partially shorted coil can cause this problem as well as a bad condensor. But Mallory makes a lot of mistakes I think. The points in mine don't actually fry, but they require frequent cleaning, and of course it doesn't take long before you file through the beryllium or whatever the top layer is made of, so then the problem occurs more often. Other Mallory problems? The split pin will shear with a high volume oil pump...you have to drill out the 1/8 hole with a #22 (or was it #21...can't remember) drill bit and intall a 5/32 roll pin with a 3/32 one "nested" inside of it (splits at 180 deg) to cure that one. The gear is not a tight fit on the shaft, so expect accelerated gear teeth wear on both the distributor gear and the camshaft gear. The groove for the square tapered o-ring is too deep, so that with the slightest blowby you get oil coming out around the distributor. A strip of gasket paper under the o-ring will solve the problem, or a very good pcv system might keep it under control. The bushing frequently require oil. The early versions had an oil hole for this, ...the later ones...well...you have to pour a little bit down unberneath the breaker plate. And guess what?....I was dumb enough to purchase two of these gems. |
| | Starting to figure out the problem -- Joshua Carroll, 07/31/2001
I agree with John that this is not a very good product! However, I am starting to figure out the problem. For starters the parts store gave me the wrong coil! I have a "MSD Blaster 2 electronic ignition coil". There is only roughly 4.5 volts across the coil. Not exactly a hot fire! I am still not sure why I am frying the points unless the condensor is bad?!? I am planning on buying the correct coil, new condensor, and new points tonight. Any further suggestions? Thanks for all the help.
Josh |
| | | RE: Starting to figure out the problem -- John, 07/31/2001
Only 4.5 Volts across the coil? Do you have 12 volts on the + side of the coil? Do you have good continuity from the distributor housing to the engine block? (good ground?) If "Yes" is the answer to both these questions, then you are dropping 7.5 volts across the points, which indicates poor point contact(continuity). If you are using a ballast resistor, some of this voltage is being dropped across it as well and it would seem to be a little high in ohmage, although this shouldn't cause damage to the points. One thing I didn't mention before is that with a dual point distributor, the dwell is increased to help saturate the coil which of course allows a maximum current accross the points which accelerates pitting, oxidation, burning, etc. This is worsened with a high current coil. I suspect your ballast resistor may be the wrong value. Call or e-mail MSD and ask what value ballast resistor you should be using with their coil. I use a general purpose "no-ballast resistor" coil, but am still having some of the same problems you are. I tried a Jacob's coil...engine would barely run....I suspect Jacob is "cure-all tonic" salesman with his patented "variable magnetic core" advertising. To summarize, I picked the Mallory coil because I wanted a dual point distributor in my 66 Cobra to keep it original in at least the type of ignition system. A points system can be very good. But I'll tell you,...the first chance I get to purchase a Ford Dual-Point...I'm buying it...and then all the original factory engineering parts that go with it. Oh..one more thought...you should be using either resistance plug wires or resistance plugs...the coil will have to put out a little more with copper wires and that power requirement will be felt back on the primary of the coil as a higher than normal current draw also..hmmm...I think...chuckle. |
| | | You've got the wrong ballast resistor. -- Dave Shoe, 07/31/2001
For one, when you put a souped-up coil on your engine, you've either gotta drive it with a true ignition amplifier like the MSD which bypasses the ballast (not a stock Ford unit because it uses the ballast), or you've got to upgrade the ballast so it can handle the extra load the hot coil is gonna provide.
Right now, your spark is much weaker than it was when the stock coil was installed. You gotta match the ballast to the coil!
The stock ballast resistor (or ballast wire) will not pump enough current - It'll give you the low-voltage symptoms you see. Increase the voltage using the ballast resistor which is recommended with that coil (and REMOVE the original ballast wire from the circuit! - It's OK to keep the old ballast in it's original location, just don't let it drive the hot coil, that's what the new ballast is for). Then you'll have the expected spark energy, though if you run gasoline on the street, a stock coil is often the only thing you need.
The points are being eaten by an insufficient condenser, and the coil is being underdriven due to an insufficient ballast resistor, so you've got two separate problems causing different symptoms.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | | RE: You've got the wrong ballast resistor. -- Barry B, 07/31/2001
Shoe’s right, a high output coil has lower resistance windings. You need a lower resistance ballast to match the coil and develop the proper voltage drop, the two components are in series and make a voltage divider. The resistance wire in Ford point-type and early Duraspark systems specs. out between 1.30 and 1.40 ohms. The Duraspark II systems with the high output coil used a resistance wire between 1.05 to 1.15 ohms. Same holds true for the condenser, its capacity is matched to the coil. |
| | | | RE: You've got the wrong ballast resistor. -- John, 07/31/2001
I don't disagree, but to tell you the truth, I havn't seen many condensors go US (UnServiceable)...but none-the-less, he probably has got both problems as you mention.
ps: I would like to think that all the dialog to date has helped focus in on the actual problems at hand...Anyone agree? It just seems to make this forum all the more worthwhile if it's true. |
| | | Ditch the points! -- Royce Peterson, 07/31/2001
Option 1. You need to get a stock single point distributor and spend 60 bucks on the Pertronix electronic module. No more points burning out ever!
Option 2. If you absolutely have to use points, buy an MSD 6 or 6AL box. The points are now just a triggering device and won't burn out ever!
Option 3. Use the Pertronics with the MSD box and have a really hot really reliable system. I did and haven't had to change points or adjust anything in several years!
Those old Mallory (and Ford) dual point distributors were never any fun to set the points on anyway.
Royce Peterson
1968 427 Cougar GTE (two of them)
1968 428 CJ Cougar |
| | Agree with everything and appreciate the help! -- Joshua Carroll, 07/31/2001
First of all I would love to ditch the points eventually with MSD distributor and MSD box but $300 is not in the budget currently (getting married in Nov.)
Second, you guys are right that the ballast resistor does not match the coil! The parts store gave me an "MSD Blaster 2 electronic ignition coil". It's series resistance is only .7ohms. The stock ballast resistor in my truck is 1.35ohms. Therefore the voltage across the coil is 12V * .7 / (.7 + 1.35) = 4.09 V! I bought the Mallory coil that is recommend for the distributor I have tonight. The series resistor across in this coil is 2 ohms. Due the math again and we have 12V *2/(2+1.35) = 7.16V! I could change the ballast resistor as some have suggested to get the desired 7-9V but I am really leaning toward using the coil Mallory suggests for there distributor. Thanks for all the help. You guys rock. By the way you can check out my rides at http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jpcarrol/Hobbies.html |
| x-rearend code -- dale, 07/29/2001
does anybody know what axle code X stands for on a 68 fairlane 500 door tag? |
| | Correct Year? -- KULTULZ, 08/01/2001
There is an X code for a 1969 Fairlane.
2.33 Locking |
| FE bellhousing --- aluminium ? -- steve mcdonald, 07/29/2001
hi! were there any FE bellhousings made out of aluminium?? if so from what models and years?? i'm looking for one if there is such.. thanks!! |
| How do I know if it's original engine or not? -- Josh K, 07/29/2001
How can I tell if I've got the original engine in my '69 GT Convertible Mustang? I've done the VIN Decoding and it comes back as a 351W 4-V, but I've never saw one before, so how do I know the engine in my car is in fact the 351 or not? Is there #'s on the engine somewhere indicating this or what?? Somebody help me please..... |
| | RE: How do I know if it's original engine or not? -- R. Shannon, 07/30/2001
Get the head casting codes, intake codes and block codes, and count the number of bolts on the valve covers. Get a book or go to a ford dealer and cross the codes. You can also drop a coat hanger into one of the cylinders mark it, rotate the crank, and measure the stroke. Maybe this will stir up somemore suggestions. |
| 360 into 390 -- 390fastback, 07/29/2001
A freind just recently pulled his 360 out of his '74 3/4 ton 4x4 and put a 428 in its place. The 360 is the reverse 105 block, which I'm told is a fairly sturdy block. Could I put my 390 guts in this block and make and almost bullit-proof engine. I've asked on one other site (won't say which) and I don't think they are really familiare with the big blocks. Thanks for all help. |
| | RE: 360 into 390 -- The Original Ross, 07/29/2001
It will work out fine assuming your bore is the same from the 390 you are taking the pistons from, a true bolt in, the blocks are the same dimensions |
| | RE: 360 into 390 -- Paul M, 07/29/2001
You'll need the crank, rods, and pistons, to make it into a basic 390.
Considering the 360 was a truck-only engine, the cam (and consequently the lifters) should be upgraded. Not sure of the 360 cam specs, but 360's are pretty doggy, and a better came with the 390 rotating assembly will wake it right up.
Induction should be a consideration as well. Truck intakes were generally made for low RPM work. A Performer RPM, or maybe a PI or such wiould be a vast improvement. |
| FE intake manifold? -- Dave, 07/28/2001
I'm hoping that someone here can help me identify what engine this manifold I got from a friend (who was cleaning out a relative's garage)is for. The books I have don't show these numbers C6AE 9425 G and there's a "S" on it also. I'd like to put it up on eBay (I'm into 351 clevelands)but without knowing the engine it's for I can't really be sure of what I've got. By the way it's cast iron.
Thanks,
Dave |
| | The best that I can come up with is 1966.......... -- Ed Jenkins, 07/28/2001
Fullsize Ford, I believe that the S means that it was used on a 390 but, I'm not for sure......... |
| | It's a 1966 to early '70s intake. -- Dave Shoe, 07/28/2001
The only year of major changes for the FE was 1966. This was due both new emissions regulations, and also to the space constraints of the unibody design.
The "S" intake means it's an emissions type "equal runner" intake, a brand new design for 1966. It came in both two and 4 barrel forms, and seems to have been used on most FEs from 1966-1971. I believe this might be the smoothest running intake for the FE.
Also born in 1966 was the "T" manifold, also available in 2V or 4V forms. It was based on the pre-emissions iron intake, but it had the runners tapered down to match the new-for-1966 emissions heads.
Ford engine plant machinists used these two codes to identify the intake manifold when assembling engines.
Just as Ford opened the 1966 year with two head offerings (The all-new C6AE-J, and revised older design C6AE-R), I think Ford offered both intakes "just to be safe".
I haven't yet figured out what percentage of vehicles got one or the other intake, but it seems the "S" intake was slightly more common on cars from 1966-1971, and the "T" was found a bit more often in trucks and industrial apps from 1966-1976.
Both types of intakes are quite common.
All JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | RE: It's a 1966 to early '70s intake. -- Dave, 07/28/2001
Thanks for the info. All I came up with was a 1966, but didn't know for what engine(s) it would fit. Since it's a four barrel, I may keep it, in case I come across an FE block that I want to build.
Thanks Again,
Dave |
| | RE: FE intake manifold? -- John R. Barnes, 07/29/2001
1966, 390 GT, 428 4V except Police before 11/1/66. |
| | RE: FE intake manifold? -- Earl Wood, 08/01/2001
Where does one find the resource to decode Ford casting and part #'s? I have Steve Christ's book on FE engines but there are no numbers for intakes. |
| 390 T-BIRD FE Noice from the valves -- Fernando, 07/27/2001
I recently rebuild a 390 FE off a 66’ T-BIRD for the first 500 miles it was heating up and after about 1000 miles it started to make noise from the valves (I think). When I start to accelerate the engine starts to make the noise and it stops when it reaches a cruising speed. Can any one give some advise because it’s a really bummer.
Thank you
Fernando the CPL sends .....................................................
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| | RE: 390 T-BIRD FE Noise from the valves -- matt, 07/29/2001
well could that noise be pinging? if so is your timing good? is your car overheating? is your compression to high? are you using a high quality gasoline? try using an octane booster and let us know what happens, matt |
| 1964 Galaxie 500 XL -- mike blankenship, 07/27/2001
Sorry but I tried to post in the Classifieds but it never would send me a password back. Thought someone might be interested
1964Galaxie 500 XL 390 4bbl, auto, buckets, console,period aftermarket underdash air(Mark IV)
would need gone through from stem to stern asking$1500
e-mail me at skbb@zoomnet.net
thanks
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