Skip Navigation Links.
 |  starter index plate -- rick, 08/13/2004
we are installing a 390 in a cobra kit car with a ford top loader trans. we forgot to put the starter index plate between the engine and bell housing. is this piece absouletely necessary? what is its purpose? engine has not benn run. turns over easily with crank bolt with plugs out. trans and bell housing are drawn up tight. help. |
 | FE Crank spacer sleeve -- lucas, 08/13/2004
Anybody have the part number for the Redi-Sleeve or Speedi-Sleeve that fits the FE crank spacer? |
| Mufflers -- Tony, 08/12/2004
I have a 681/2 Cobra Jet Mustang with the stock transverse muffler exhaust. I am going to remove the exhaust system for a dual set up. In your opinion, what mufflers sound the best with the stock exhaust manifolds? I like the sound of the 3 chamber flowmasters on a engine with headers, but I don't know how they would sound with stock manifolds.
Thanks |
| |  | RE: For 'loud', stick with Flowmasters. For OEM sound, go Dynomax... -- Don H, 08/22/2004
I have 2.5 duals w/ flowmaster 40s with long tube headers-They are extra loud (annoying & embarrassing) if you plan on driving it around very much. Get 3 chamber with Delta Flow or 70 series. |
| Borg Warner Super t-10 -- Den69RS96, 08/11/2004
Hi Guys, I'm trying to do some research regarding the Super t-10. I'm a GM guy and I don't know a lot about Fords, but did any Fords come with a Super T-10? The reason I ask is that I just had a Super T-10 professionally rebuilt and the tranny shop said that the tranny I have probably came out of big block Ford. Since this tranny came out of my 69 camaro, the guy at the shop ordered a few gears and an input shaft. Well, the one gear he didn't replace did not fit the new input shaft. According to the shop, it was a Ford input shaft. Also the speedometer gear was set up for a Ford. The tranny also has both Ford and GM mounts on it.
What I do know is that it is a 1st design ST-10 with a case iron case with a 10 spline input shaft. It has mounts for both GM and Ford according to the tranny shop. I'm curious to learn more about this tranny if anyone knows anything else, so please let me know. The numbers are:
13-04-065-902
WG Div G or O -l
H-24-73
H-17-73 on the tail shaft
T-10K-7
Thank you for your time |
| | RE: Nope. -- Gerry Proctor, 08/12/2004
Super T-10s were never offered in Fords of any kind. Ford did use a T-10 prior to the toploader introduction in '64 but it was not the ST-10.
What you most likely have is an aftermarket application. It could also be a mid-70s Corvette application since the Muncie was replaced by the ST-10 after '75. It could also be an AMC application. With the dual-bolt pattern and iron case the smart money says it's aftermarket since these transmissions were very popular in the 60s and 70s. |
| | |  | RE: Damn Ford and their exceptions! -- Gerry Proctor, 08/12/2004
When will I ever learn to indicate something is absolute when it comes to anything Ford. I'd say there never was a Pinto with a flathead-driven flux capacitor but I'm sure Ford had to send at least one out the door. |
| | | |  | RE: Damn Ford and their exceptions! -- crusinbuddy, 08/12/2004
Yes, I have one and it is fast as the speed of light! |
| | | | | 'Course, this 'exception' covers maybe 5000 Mustangs. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/13/2004
n/m |
| | | | | I'd have let you slide, had it been only a handful. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/13/2004
n/m |
| | RE: Borg Warner Super t-10 -- Den69RS96, 08/12/2004
Thanks for the info. Maybe I have an experimental transmission which is why it is hard to decode. I found this link out of the web. Hopefully this can help someone else out. Thanks
http://www.classicar.com/articles/T-10.asp |
| | Sounds like a generic service tranny, made for OTC sales. [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/12/2004
n/m |
| FE vs. 427W -- McQ, 08/11/2004
Haven't seen any posts yet regarding the 9/04 Mustang & FORDS feature article, Big Cube Shoot-out!
Very nicely done 428FE(a '61 block no less) providing some decent HP/Torque over the also very well built '51 Windsor that gives good stats too.
BTW, the Edelbrock RPM cam is used in this FE. A cam that gets a lot of questionsresponses about its characteristics on this forum. M&F quote about the E'brock P-RPM: "will delvier an ever-so-slight lumpy idle with good, crisp throttle response".
Check it out, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
I'm still waiting for that Hemmings Muscle Car, Sept. issue to hit the stands here. '61 Starliner feature.....I hope it's a 375/401 HP390. |
| | '61 Starliner was a 375hp originally -- blinker, 08/11/2004
but now has the tri power carbs on it.
The article says both the 375hp and the 401 hp were Z code 390's.
The article states that Ford started installing the 401hp's in late January or early Feburary.
When the current owner found it, it has 13,000 miles.
I don't know why I like cars from that era. The '61 was built 3 years before I was born.
People my age should have the hots for 5.0 Mustangs,
However, I do remember sitting in the swing on the front porch back in the 1960's. and admiring certain cars as they rumbled by the house........... |
| | | RE: check this one out -- McQ, 08/11/2004
Finally got the 9/04 Hemmings Muscle Machines this morning. Excellent article on a '61 HP 390. I couldn't find anything to disagree with or complain about. That's not often the case with article regarding the early HP FE's. So many errors regularly. Not this one. All was as it was with some interesting new things like the possibility of the tri power being factory installed in late '61. I'm skeptical about that but it's still possible. And the info about the early 4 speed installations having a cobbled up steering column....that may have meant just a plug was used where the column shift had been. I know later Ford floor shift conversion kits came with a '62 standard Ford dummy shift tube.
And it's a fact that all '61 HP cars either 375 or 401 horse were -Z- codes. The -M- code was a '62 early Ford with 401 horse 390, just prior to the 406 availablilty.
It's very interesting that the author cites Les Ritchey's time at the Winternationals '61, 13.33 @ 105.5. Not too bad for a full size Galaxie that was pretty close to stock. An October, '61, feature in Car Craft has a stock HP/401 '61 with three speed column sift, home made headers and Atlas Butron street tires running a best of 13.24 @ 107.18. That's with a driver who was not too adept with the column shifter. And we local FE fans are real proud of Spokane, WA's own Potter Brothers who gained a NHRA National Super Stock Record with an HP/401 Starliner, 3-speed, 13.1 E.T. and the mph I can't remember at the moment but it was in the low hundreds. Here's what was trick about that car, it had a Falcon rear bumper bolted to the front of the '61 'liner! That met the NHRA requirement that Super Stock cars of that time have a front bumper.
Thanks again blinker for bringing the Hemmings article and the link to another great '61 HP story to our attention. Should be interesting reading to all fans of the mighty FE.
Oh and it should be interesting to note how easily these early HP Galaxies of '60 and '61 so easily ran in the 14's in showroom condition. A lot quicker than our vaunted '66 - '68 390GT(often mislabled as High Performance 390) ever could. Why couldn't FoMoCo have taken the cues from the HP 390 and added just one engine option up over the 390GT? It would have made our Fairlanes/Mustangs/Cougars so much more interesting to drive for those of us who were trying to keep up with the GM/Mopar drivers. |
| | | | Ford did offer an engine upgrade.. -- Don, 08/12/2004
for the 66-67 Fairlanes in the form of an FE 427 side oiler, unfortunatley they kept it ultra low profile (1966), but actually small printed the availibilty of the 67's. I often wonder what kind of arm twisting it took for the average buyer to get one even if they had knowledge of it's impending production. Did they sell the 66 427 to any one that wasn't dealer connected?
Inquiring minds would like to know |
| | | | | RE: Ford did offer an engine upgrade.. -- Barry McLarty, 08/12/2004
A good friend purchased a 67 Fairlane convertible with a 427 off the showroom floor when he was 19.It is the only one we know of.Dark blue with a black top.He ran it in C stock for a number of years,and now just cruises on weekends.He say"s it was on the floor for3 days before he found it.No ties to ford,just luck.37 years old with22,345 miles on it. |
| | | | | RE: Ford did offer an engine upgrade.. -- McQ, 08/12/2004
Yes Don there was that "upgrade". The '66 Fairlane 427 was made available to "connected" Ford buyers-racers mid-year. Seems like 70 or so were built. All were White/black interior. Most were painted and raced immediately.
The Powered by Ford scene got a little better for the average person in '67. Ford actually did a little promotion, an example would be the one page ad in Hot Rod mag that year with Parnelli Jones' NASCAR 'lane featured on top with a subheading: "The 427 Fairlane.......is also available without numbers". Below that was a straight side shot of a blue '67 Fairlane 500 hardtop. Below that is the copy of how wonderful it would be to own a street 427 Fairlane. What they don't tell you in this ad is that the 427 option was going to cost you a cool $grand. That option alone would put your basic '67 Fairlane over $4K. That was not a reasonable price to your basic Fairlane buyer in 1967.
There was one '67 Fairlane 427 sold by one of the three Ford dealers in this community. The buyer had to show the Hot Rod Ford advertisement plus he had to get a letter from an attorney threatening a lawsuit if the Fairlane was not ordered and built. The silver with black vinyl top, back interior, Fairlane 500 427-425 was ordered, built and shipped to Wendle Ford here in Spokane, WA. The owner drove it regularly on the streets for a couple of years. It became an SS strip warrior, "Quicksilver" in '70.
There were something like 500 or so '67 Fairlane 427's, both -W- and -R- code, and a handful of '67 Comets/Cyclones built. The Mercs are ultra rare. But was there a real optional upgrade to the average FoMoCo HP fan? Not really. Sure you could buy neat stuff over the counter like tri power, solid lifter cams, etc. But there wasn't anything readily available offered that was competitive to say the 360 horse 389 tri power '66 GTO. Same for the upgrades available for the Old's 442, the Malibu SS 396. The 390GT could easily work over a 383 Magnum Mopar. But don't dare mess with a 440 '67 GTX or RT.
Another local friend bought a new '67 GT -S- code 4 speed 'stang. Beautiful car in the dark blue. He was beaten readily and often the first few months he had the Mustang. The topper was when another of our friends beat him with a '61 Starliner 390/375 with a 4 speed. That was it! Out came the short intake port 390GT replaced by a '64 lo-riser 427/425. Now he had a competitive Ford Powered car. It was a high 12's regularly daily driver.
I know I harp on it too much. But it still bothers me that Ford didn't offer a 390 that was somewhat similar to the '61/'62 390HP. It wouldn't even have needed the HP block. Just the solid lifter HP cam, stick only, and tri power. That power plant would have been an instant legend. It would have offered the serious enthusiast a seriously competitive Fairlane/Mustang. It took me a long time to get my '66 390GT/A to run mid 14's. If I could go back to '66 I'd order the cheapest '66 Fairlane non 500 two-door post sedan with a -Z- code 390 and 4 speed. I'd want it with rubber floor mats(obviously I thought the '68 Roadrunner was a very good idea). Before the cheapo taxi look alike 'lane arrived I would have ordered the '66 428PI solid lifter cam/lifters, 428 PI valve covers, to allow for the B8A adjustible rockers/pushrods, the over the counter tri power induction package, and a stock Ford dual point 427 distributor. Only aftermarket parts would be Belanger Headers, Traction Masters and a Hurst Comp Plus. Oh and pull the 3.25 rear gears after finding a set of 3.89's from an early '60s 292/stick shift Country Sedan or Ranch wagon. Now that would have been a fun car to beat a fully loaded tri powered goat.
"How can that cheap Ford Fairlane beat my mighty Tiger?"
Okay enough day dreaming, back to work carefully installing the fenders on my '60.
|
| | | | | | McQ was pretty close . . . -- Orin, 08/17/2004
. . . on his estimate for the cost of a 427 in a '67 Fairlane. According to the sticker price on this car the cost was actually just over 41400.
The owner says: "Although the option price of the 427-8V is listed as $1,129.35, it is interesting to note that in order to get the 427 engine, one had to first purchase the 289-2V BASE engine for $105.63.
"In addition, since the 4-speed transmision was a mandatory option at $184.02, the total cost for the 427-8V engine was really $1,419.
"This was a staggering sum in 1967 considering that the base price of the entire car was only $2,439.14! "
The site is here:
http://www.sd455.com/fairlane.htm |
| | | | | | RE: Fairlane Stainless Clips. -- mark, 05/04/2006
Anybody know were I can get the plastic clips for the belt line stainless on my 67 Ranchero?? |
| | | | | In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy ordering req'd. [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/12/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | RE: In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy orderi -- McQ, 08/13/2004
You're are correct Mr F! Did you order one? Not many did. The 427 was not heavily promoted. Most dealers did not want to deal with the headaches that came with the 427 powered cars. That even included the Galaxies. I don't believe any dealer would turn down a sale if the money was the there. FoMoCo did not want to deal with the headaches either. That's why every '67 427 Fairlane came with a 90 day warranty plus a couple of pages of disclaimers regarding quality control. And again that $1,000 charge for a 427 was a hefty chunk-o-change for the average Ford buyer in '67.
Yup, no fancy ordering needed. But you had to know what you wanted and have the bucks to back up your desires/needs. |
| | | | | | | Just FYI: '67 427 option was ~$1300. And I was 12. ;-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/14/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | Turning 50 this year? -- JohnRB, 04/25/2005
Hmm. Mr.F turning 50 this year?
John |
| | | | | | | | | Yep - the big 5-0 has finally caught me. ::LOL:: [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/25/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | | RE: Just FYI: '67 427 option was ~$1300. And I was 12. ;-) [n/m] -- walt, 04/27/2005
and i was 20,heading for vietnam |
| | | | | | | MSRP of 427 was ~$1125 + 4-speed was priced sep. [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/14/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | RE:Thank you for showing me the errors in my way -- McQ, 08/14/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | RE:A few more facts on that "upgrade" -- McQ, 08/14/2004
Sorry to have been so brief in my response Mr F. I am sincere when I say that I'm always "looking to learn" from this forum. And I have learned a lot over the years I've made regular visits to read and occasionally post.
What I should have said with my point about a 390GT upgrade was there wasn't a viable, affordable upgrade option to the 390GT. Does that make more sense?
It seems like you've affirmed my point with the high price of the 427 option and mandatory 4 speed. Since you have the '67 Fairlane prices handy what would be an approximate price of a nicely optioned '67 Fairlane 390 GT? My estimate based on memory would be around $3,500. So take a base '67 Fairlane 500 hardtop....$3,000(est.) add $1,300= $4,300. So that's $800 over a 390GT Fairlane. And we know the 427 upgrade was not available to the Mustang buyer. So there wasn't any upgrade over the 390GT for the 'stang.
There were numeous upgrades for the GM Muscle and Pony cars. Mopar saw the light for '67. The King Kong Hemi was not an affordable/viable option for most. Hemi cars are in the same category as 427 Ford Powered cars to me.
I do have a '66 Ford "Armchari Estimator" handy. Here's some interesting facts about what a 427 would cost you for your '66 full size Ford/Galaxie:
425-hp V-8 in XL's and LTD's = $968.05
same engine in a 7-Litre = $750.78
this engine not available in Station Wagons
same engine in all other full size Fords = $1,074.01
I happen to have a copy of the letter that was sent to all Cleveland District Ford Dealers on 12/16/66 signed by W.H.Kennedy, District Sales Manager. I have this copy, along with the form that a 427 Ford Power purchaser was required to sign upon ordering such a vehicle either Ford or Fairlane, thanks to a friend who did take delivery of a '67 427-425 Fairlane.
I'll just quote one paragraph of Mr. Kennedy's letter to all Cleveland Ford dealers:
"The 427 CID high performance engines are offered regular production options on 1967 Ford and Fairlane passenger cars. Such vehicles are designed for use in supervised competitive events and are not intended for highway or general passenger use."
The form includes nine major points that were to be reviewed with the buyer of a 427 Ford Powered vehicle. Here's #9:
"A vehicle equipped with the high performance engine is designed for competition and is expected to be used for such purposes....."
It goes on to say that the standard warranty does not apply to 427 powered vehicles.
This kind of information made it somewhat discouraging for a person to seriously consider the 390GT upgrade.
Ford, of course thanks to Tasca, got an affordable upgrade together by April, '68, just in time for Mr F's 14th birthday! But it sure seemed like a long two and a half years for us 390GT owners trying to compete with the competitor's upgrades. |
| | | | | | | | | | I have a 67 Armchair price guide -- Lou, 08/14/2004
It does not list the 427 as a option for any model. I was my understanding the Ford was trying to unload thier stock of 427s as they were offered in Police cars at not extra cost. The state of Connecticut ordered 50 or so Police cars and was told that they could have them at the same cost as the 390 cars. In 1970 and 71 you could buy any of the 427 cars at the state auction for $600 or less. I think but I'm not sure that they had the C6 auto trans in them. |
| | | | | | | | | | | I have original dealer pricing sheets. :-) [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/15/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | | | Police car option was 428, not 427. -- Royce, 08/15/2004
N/m |
| | | | | | | | | | | | I bought several of the -- Uberty's Auto Wrecking, 08/16/2004
ex Connecticut state police cars is the 70s they were 427 single 4 barrel with C6 auto trans. We were selling the engines to the guys running the Waterford Speed Bowl and Stafford Springs Speedway. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | What model year were those cars? -- Dave Shoe, 08/17/2004
What model year were the 427 Connecticut police cars?
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: What model year were those cars? -- Uberty's Auto Wrecking, 08/17/2004
1967 and possable 1968. I understand New York had some too but I we were not alowed to bid in the New York State auctions as we were a Connecticut business. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Impossible. -- Royce P, 08/17/2004
There were only a handful of 1966 - 67 full size Fords built with the 427 engine. All the 1967's are documented by Kevin Marti and none are police cars or four door sedans.
No 1968 Ford products of any kind were available with the 427 except the Cougar GT-E. No police cars, no Shelby's no Mustangs, nothing.
Royce |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | OK, If you say so !! -- Uberty's Auto wrecking, 08/18/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: OK, If you say so !! -- Tony P., 08/18/2004
Gonna have to give some merit to what uberty has said. One of the old troopers who retired about 5 yrs. ago after 35 yrs. on the job and who is a real carnut, had adjustable lifters in his 67 cruiser,a ford custom and he remembers having one hell of time driving it in bad weather. Yes he knows the difference as he also had a 61 and 63 cruiser assigned to him. He said there were a few other guys who had them too, not too many. Wasn't there something about an engine strike at Ford about this time and I'm just wondering if Ford was getting rid of it's solid lifter engine inventory as they went to the hydraulics in 67. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: OK, If you say so !! -- Tony P., 08/18/2004
I forgot to mention in my previous post that I was also referring to CT. State Police vehicles. As far as the Marti reports go what are they classifying the shelby 500 cars that went out of the factory with with S codes as ? We all know what they were really equipped with, right ? So some of these PI cars very well could have left the factory with P code 427s, not R or W, and they wouldn't show up on any R,Q or W search. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | The Feds got into it in 1968. -- Dave Shoe, 08/19/2004
Federal emissions laws are what tamed the 427 in 1968. Before Ford could put an engine into a 1968 car, it would have to be Federally certified in that particular chassis/engine/tranny combination.
For 1968, only the Cougar/427/C6 was certified for the 427. This was a spendy proposition, so no 4-speeds were created, in order to reduce certification costs.
I can well understand a few 427s being special ordered for non-standard (and expensive) police vehicles up through 1967, but police contracts tended to be very cost competitive between the car manufacturers, and lowest fleet cost is most frequently what won a contract. Fleet cars were available in standard packages named: Interceptor, Cruiser, Guardian, Sentinel, Deputy, Defender, Ranger, Sentry, with associated engines as part of each package.
Since 427s were never a fleet option, and since they were always expensive engines (remember how Shelby had to fight to get them and ended up with 428s in Cobras for 1966), I can't see 427s being casually available in police cars.
Also, the aforementioned GT-500 428PI VIN mismatch was logical because Ford did not have a manufacturing protocol for stuffing 428 engines into Mustangs until they budgeted the protocol for the CJ Mustang, so Ford used the 390 Mustang protocol with an amendment to make the early GT-500s.
Ford DID have a manufacturing protocol for stuffing 427s into 1967 Galaxies, so any police cars with production line 427s would have gotten the correct engine code in the VIN, along with all the other mandatory parts (heavy duty brakes, axles, etc) which made the 427 Galaxie an appropriately balanced vehicle.
427s for 1968 police cars is not logical or legal. For 1967 police cars 427s would be very uncommon "special order" cars sold at a substantial premium, and likely quoted outside the fleet contract. A cop would have to be close friends with the buyer to get one of these approved.
427s were never cheaply available to the production line.
JMO,
Shoe. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Shoe, I understand what you are saying -- Lou, 08/19/2004
but you are trying to put logic to a company that was didn't know what they were doing or who was doing what. From the late 60s to the early 70s Ford management was a joke, and came damn close to bankrupting them.
It is possable that the 427 were put in police cars because of shortages.
Chrysler had hurt Ford bad in thier Taxi business and was going after Fords' Police business. I know for a fact that Ford had told dealers to bid to get Police contracks and if they lost money that Ford would make it right.
The taxi and police wars between Ford and Chrysler are what legends are made of.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Impossible. -- ford429cjlover, 08/19/2004
Royce,
I don't know that I would say that it was impossible. When I was working my way through college in the late eighties I worked at a shop and junk yard my best friends dad owned. He had several of the old county police cars that he had bought for next to nothing at aution. Some of these had 428 PI engines and others had 427 engine. Some of these were '63, '64 cars and others were the boxy '65-'67 cars. At the time I didn't know anything about the engine codes so I can't say what the codes were.
Also, about six months ago I was in a junkyard in Sparta Georgia looking for a '70 model 429. The owner of the yard was with me and he inquired as to why I wanted an old 429. I told him that I was hot rodding one of my mustangs and I needed a strong engine. He laughed and asked why the hell i wanted a 429. He goes on this spill about when he was younger how they raced 390s, 427s and 428s. He ends by telling me that if I had been by a few months earlier I could've bought his last 427. He said it came out of one his patrol cars.
429fordcjlover |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Impossible. -- Ice Mike, 05/04/2005
Are you nuts the 427 was offered in the Galaxie,Cougar,Mustang in 68 as a Hydraulic valve 390 HP option and also in the Mustang Shelby GT 500 not to mention the 428 which was nothing but a similiar FE block less the cross bolt mains and called the Super Cobra Jet utilising 427 medium riser heads and limited to 68 and 1/2 mustangs for superstock racing along with the rare and hard to obtain 427 tunnelport and never produced for street vehicles 427 SOHC cammer. |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Impossible. -- McQ, 05/04/2005
Hey Ice Mike, we may as well see if we can keep this wild & crazy thread, er, way out there tangent going, huh?
First, the hydraulic liftered -W- code '68 427 was NOT available to the Galaxie, full size line.
Second, the -W- code 427, 390 horsepower engine never was installed in a production '68 'stang. The plan was go but there was a huge strike by the UAW in Oct., '67 that shut all production down for a month or so. I've got the early dealer-showroom brochures, articles and there was even a prototype 390 horsepower 427 Mustang released for some early publicity testing. But after the strike....no 427/390 horse was available to the Mustang buyer. The Cougar did get it the somewhat detuned 427 though as a GT/E package. Royce knows a lot about these. Very very rare to say the least.
I don't think any '68 Shelby GT 500 'stangs got the -W- code engine. The pre '68 1/2, got the 428 Police Engine which by '68 even featured a cast iron intake similar to how the CJ was going to be.
Let's see, what else did you claim, oh, the thing about the 427 being little more than a 428 with cross bolted main caps, this could create one big ol'argument amongst the FE'natics. The bad boy '27 was a lot more than just cross bolted main caps. As a matter of fact, the 428 got the nod to replace the 427 as the Real Performance option because it was a lot less costly to produce. Do a little more research regarding the differences between a '27 & '28.
Now what about those medium riser heads? Sorry Ice Mike. The C80E-N Cobra Jet head is not a Medium Riser. The vaunted CJ is very similar to a '66 390 GT with the low riser size valves, different ex. mfld. bolt pattern, but they just ain't the medium riser.
Last, the '68 1/2 Cobra Jet was not referred to as a Super Cobra Jet. That designation was for the 1969-70 Drag Pack option. What an SCJ got over a CJ was LeMan's style, cap-screw, 427, rods. Different weight pistons too to go with these rods. But the SCJ did not make any more power over the CJ. It just got a little tougher lower end to handle the 3.91/4.30 gearing that came with the Drag Pack option.
I'd like to summarize by saying that all I've said may be possible or it may not be. But when you say "Impossible" especially regarding what our mighty Blue FoMoCo was doing back then, (ack then? What are they doing now?) you just can't be too sure.
Here's a pop quiz for you Ice Mike: What one and only transmission was available for the '68 -W- code 427/390HP engine? And Why? |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Definitely some '67s or possibly all 1968 models? [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/18/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Just curious, but did they also have Thermactor? [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/17/2004
n/m |
| | | | | | | RE: In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy orderi -- bob, 01/06/2005
66 fairlane 427 med riser or high riser? |
| | | | | | | RE: In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy orderi -- walt, 04/27/2005
sorry guys time for me to dissappaer under a rock,i guess i know too many people who worked at the mfg plant,engine plant,engineering,dyno tests,test track,rousch,veermeersch,holbrook,kalitta.etcmaybe be i get my faulty info from them |
| | | | | | RE: In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy ordering req'd. [n/m] -- walt, 04/24/2005
the 66 was not offered to the general public,but in 67 nascar rules said that they had to sell ,or make avialable 500 production units to the public to run nascar legaly,here's another thing,the 427 was avialable in the 67 cougar,not the mustang,there are numbers that prove thisalso the first sohc was supposed to go in the 66 ford galaxie;and some of the cougars shock towers for 67 were to be relocated for the sohcwich at one time the parts were avialable over the counter,they incorporated the parts into the boss 429 |
| | | | | | RE: In '67, 427 Fairlane was RPO - no fancy ordering req'd. [n/m] -- walt, 04/27/2005
when i was in thevietnam i saw some navy fast patrol boats that had twin hemi's twin big chevies,and some big block fords twins they had the opt of right or left hand rotation |
| | | | | | | Really - Fords in those boats? Neat. :-) I had no idea. [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/27/2005
n/m |
| | | RE: Here's a 1967 Armchair Estimater . . -- kyle thompson, 08/19/2004
the 427 was a optinal motor in the mustang but none got them then mid year they 428cj |
| | | | RE:I apologize! -- McQ, 08/19/2004
Or as my youngest son likes to say..."My Bad".
I started this thread with a simple post to let FE fans know about the Mustang & FORDS FE vs. stroked Windsor feature. Then I blew it by going off on my ridiculous tangent "Why didn't Ford offer a 390GT upgrade?" Wrong wrong wrong for me to do. I've got to give up on it already. If I want a 390GT "upgrade"....I'll have to build it myself.
So here's my last word on this'un.....READ Shoe's post carefully. That's the way it was!! 427's were not installed easily. It took some special ordering with a little clout with a dealer who was willing to deal with such a high maintenance power plant. That's why I don't/didn't consider the 427-425/410 engine a viable 390GT upgrade.
Now what about the fine showing the ol'428 made vs. the young stroked street tough? |
| | | | | Me too.. -- Don, 08/20/2004
wow, this thread took on a life of its own. I kinda wrote the response tongue and cheek knowing full well Ford did NOT want you to have a 427 in a Fairlane.
Mcq is quite right though, there wasn't a viable, affordable power upgrade for the 66 GT/GTA Fairlane and that was a pity for such a near perfect Ford.
Having said that, the GT390's 427 ft lbs of foot torque is still a lot of fun with a minimum of grief or problems (ok I got one, can't help it) |
| | | | | | RE:427 ft.lbs.of torque -- McQ, 08/20/2004
You're right Don that this thread did go way out there. But I appreciate the contributions made and it's fun to share some opinions.
And you're so right about the torque provided from a 390GT. My '66 GT/A would easily bark a nice squeal at the tires with the one-two shift when my right foot was to the metal. I sold my 'lane in '76 to a lucky 17 year old kid. The kid and his dad test drove it and the moment the rear tires layed the rubber with that one two shift - the car was sold. A very stupid decision on my part. A whopping......$1,400. That was honestly a decent price to get in '76. The fine Fairlane had 72,000 miles on it all from my wife and I.
But there ain't nothin' in the world like the shift a '69 Fairlane Cobra with C6-R code servo, 3.91 drag-pack gearing makes. I drove one right off the delivery truck in July '69. It absolutely would fish tail as it burned rubber with that one-two shift. That Cobra ran best by just leaving it in Drive and letting the factory set C6 do its thing. |
| | | | | | | Speaking of fishtails, -- blinker, 05/11/2005
If what a Mopar guy I know it to be believed, thats all you would have seen running against a 340 'Cuda, at least on the street.
True? |
| | | | | | | | RE: Speaking of fishtails, -- McQ, 05/12/2005
This looong thread has to go away.....ah what the hey, one more,
No Way! That a 340 anything in street trim could stay with a 428CJ anything in like street trim.
340s were a nice package. In stock/street trim I saw many run mid to a little lower 14's. A stock/street CJ 428 was a high 13's runner on F70X14 Polyglas Wide Ovals.
I knew a guy who's '69 Cuda fastback 340 would run consistent 14.3-14.5/99 mph. It wasn't even a good race against our '69 Formal roof 3.91 -R- code Fairlane Cobra. Nothing but the Cuda's headlights in the Cobra's rear view mirror.
Not even close..... |
| | | | | RE:I apologize! -- walt, 05/04/2005
it was called economics,tight money,fordput too much faith in the choked down 390,was a failure,another example,why didn't they put p i rods in all the 390/428 standards,but if they can save a penny for each engine made,per rod bolt,figure the math,they woke up and brought out the cj's |
| | | | RE: Here's a 1967 Armchair Estimater . . -- walt, 04/24/2005
2 peoplle that i know had the 68 427 mustangs,damn if i can remember if they had autos,or sticks,but i do have a set of heads for the 68 427,and they are the right numbers for the 68 427 hydraulic motor |
| | | | | Ford's production database shows no 427 Mustang built. [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/24/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | RE: Ford's production database shows no 427 Mustang ... -- walt, 04/25/2005
code W engine,mustang,performance and handling guide,by peter c.sessler,also page 6 in the muscle partsstory,supplement 1,fomoco. i seen a427,67 cougar,maybe a dealer installed item? |
| | | | | | | Sure - Ford *definitely* built & sold '68 Cougars w/ 427. [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/25/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | | RE: Sure - Ford *definitely* built & sold '68 Cougars w/ 427. [n/m] -- walt, 04/30/2005
maybe dealer installed items? |
| | | | | | | | | Oh, sure - Ford maybe dealers installed a few 427s. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/03/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | ...but those wouldn't be 'true' 427 cars (wrong VIN). [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/03/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | | | The big problem: adding a 427 voided the warranty. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/03/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | But that book only says the code exists...not actual cars. [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/25/2005
n/m |
| | | | | | | If Ford says they didn't build 'em, who am I to argue? :-D [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/25/2005
n/m |
| | | RE: Here's a 1967 Armchair Estimater . . -- walt, 04/27/2005
yep.the insurance was too steep |
| | who cares!n/m -- bubba, 08/23/2004
I dont! |
| | | 427 vs 428 -- Travis Miller, 08/24/2004
Since 428 PI came with an aluminum intake and solid lifters, it is possible that years ago some may have thought they were seeing a 427 in police cars.
I do remember in late 1965 pulling up at a stoplight next to a 1965 cheap bodied Ford 2 dr sedan that was an unmarked police car. The shock came when I read 427 on the emblem. As we pulled away from the stoplight the cop was shifting a 4-speed. This was in a small town adjacent to Louisville KY. The police station was 1 block from a big Ford dealership that always supplied the police cars. |
| | | | RE: 427 vs 428 -- walt, 04/17/2005
in 1966 there were the early 428's that did come as solid lifter engines,not very many |
| | | | RE: 427 vs 428 -- walt, 04/24/2005
the very early 428 was a solid lifter motor,i had one in a 66 7litre ford big bdy covertable,4 spd,and no power steering!!,i let it go by the way side,the junk yard,didn't know better then,it also had a 9 3/8 rear gear |
| | | | | RE:this is hilarious! -- McQ, 04/27/2005
How did this thread ever come back? I check in occasionally just to see if the same ol' same ol' "What's FE stand for"? thread is still going. And I do still like to "Keep on Learnin' " from occasional new perspectives. That's a good thing.
But, again, my original question-post was regarding the article in 9/04 Mustang & FORDS comparing a stroked Windsor(hence, 427 small block)vs. the built 428 FE. That thread just never got started which was probably my fault for going off on the lack of off-the-lot/out-of-the-showroom 390GT competiveness.
It was kinda fun to review this way looong, off the beatin' path tangent.
I'll have to check back in more often.
Hey - here's some fun FE news. I got the chance to roll around with a new Aluminum Genesis 427 block last week! A local friend/FEnatic finally got his. It only took three years but he now feels, and I agree, that it was worth the wait. What a piece of beautiful work this Genesis aluminum hunk a FE'iron is!
He brought the block over to my house, I layed a piece of plywood on the floor, and he picked the block up out of the back of his SUV all by hisself and layed it carefully on the wood. |
| | | | | | How heavy? -- JohnRB, 04/28/2005
How heavy is it? Weight?
John |
| | | | | | | RE: How heavy? -- McQ, 04/28/2005
I asked him the same question and he estimated it at 125 lbs. He certainly handled it easily lifting it out of the back of the Blazer. I helped him lift it back up/in and it was a breeze.
Very light, very nicely done with a lot of reinforcement but with a Ford blue paint job it would look just like a C5AE sideoiler. It even has similar Ford casting numbers/letters.
It's going to be a nice fit into his '56 'bird. |
| | Though I'd just add this one . . . -- Orin, 04/28/2005
. . line to the thread to keep McQ happy. :-) |
| | RE: FE vs. 427W -- walt, 05/02/2005
i got a set of 61 triple dueces,but the air cleaner has a tourquise,t bird emblem,was this stock?or an after market put on? |
| | | | RE: Yep - that's the stock air cleaner for M-series Thunderbirds... -- walt, 05/04/2005
ty mr f for the info,now i have to jog the cob webs in this ancient skull,to remember how i got it |
| | | | | I think Ford sold 'em as replacements for the std. part. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/04/2005
n/m |
| | | | | So, you'd order a plain one but find a 'Bird in the box. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/04/2005
n/m |
| | | M-series (6v) set-up had a unique intake, with 'level' carbs. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/03/2005
n/m |
| harland sharp roller rockers -- rick, 08/10/2004
i have a 428 with edelbrock heads and intake and cam, but i cant find any pushrods long enough to work with the harland sharp roller rocker assembly, i have tried crane and comp , any ideas? |
| | RE: harland sharp roller rockers -- afret, 08/10/2004
I've had good luck with Smith Brothers. Great products and service.
http://www.pushrods.net/ |
| | RE: harland sharp roller rockers -- 390 ranger, 08/11/2004
Got mine from crower. be sitting down when they tell you how much$ |
| Power Steering pump -- Davy Gurley, 08/10/2004
I've got a buddy who's restoring a 64 Merc. w/390, and needs a new or rebuilt p/s pump. I know...try the classifieds, but can some one please point me in the right direction? Thanks |
| Blue Thunder Intakes -- Kirk, 08/10/2004
I have an old manifold I bought from Ford Power Parts approx. 8-10 years ago, and it appears to be identical to the ones selling under Blue Thunder name. Does anyone know if these are the same. Mine was a brand new aluminum casting at time of purchase. |
| | Yup. It's Blue Thunder. -- Dave Shoe, 08/20/2004
FPP has sold FE Blue Thunder intakes since the first batch was cast.
Shoe. |
| 2 sizes of thermostat? -- texasmfp, 08/10/2004
Hi Guys, I just got my spiffy new Ford Motorsports chrome thermostat housing. I like the O-ring in place of the gasket. There is a recessed opening that I thought would hold the thermostat. Unfortunately, that opening is smaller than the port in the intake (i.e., the thermostat would not be pressed against the intake to hold it in place) and my old thermostat is actually larger than that recess. It almost covers the O-ring. Is there a trick to installing this or is there another sized thermostat that you use for this housing. (This is a 390 motor). thanks
|
| | RE: 2 sizes of thermostat? -- giacamo, 08/10/2004
the early fe moters used the larger t stat the later fe used the smaller t stat the crome housing you might have is for the later intakes..... |
| | Ford changed to the smaller FE thermostat @ 1-67. [n/m] -- Mr F, 08/11/2004
n/m |
| push rod length -- Doug, 08/08/2004
I have rebuilt my 428cj in my 69 cobra,after starting it and running it for 20 minutes it started to skip and I pulled the valve covers and found that a 1 lifter was destroyed and 5 others collasped.I was stupid and did not check the vales after the valve job and they are at differnt lengths.So know I know I have to have the valves done and need to get shorter pushrods.How do I determine how long they should be and do I need to take the motor out and rebuild it agian due to the lifter failer? |
| | RE: push rod length -- giacamo, 08/10/2004
who ever did your valves should of checked over all leight i,d be woried about what wiped out your lifters,valves sticking ?wroung springs?valves hitting pistones?give more detales of your engin....... |
| | | RE: push rod length -- Doug, 08/10/2004
Ok thanks for responding.I know about the mistake the machinest made with the length but I think that what wiped out the lifters was to long of pushrods he gave me stock length after milling the heads this caused the lifters to bottom out, the valves never hit the pistons.
|
| | | | RE: push rod length -- giacamo, 08/10/2004
the lifter has alot of travel befor it botoms out i dont have pushrod leights handy but i think if the pushrod was that long it hold the valve open and bend itself wen ths spring bines,,,and not hardly start...... |
| | | | RE: push rod length -- giacamo, 08/10/2004
stock push rods should of worked i dont think the machine shop could of milled enouf off to bottom out the lifters. |
| | | | | RE: push rod length -- Doug, 08/10/2004
So do you think that i did not get enough oil up for the break in maybe? |
| | | | | | RE: push rod length -- giacamo, 08/10/2004
what cam package are you runing springs ect..... |
| | | | | | | RE: push rod length -- Doug, 08/10/2004
It is a Lunati Nastagia exact 428 cj replacement the springs and lifters came in the kit |
| | | | | | | | RE: push rod length -- giacamo, 08/13/2004
wen you tear it down check the springs for spring bind to see if the springs mach the lift of cam?doubel check cam specks to see if corect cam?i,v used lunati in brand x moters with good resolts, but for the fe i use comp cams, my break in is 20 to 30 minets at 2000 rpm after that i adjust the idel test drive and give it back to the custermer the norm i feal is the fe is eazy on cams you should be abel to get a coupel of seasons of racing with the hotest cam setups.so i,d dig into it and measure every thing,you may have a valve train componet mis mached? |
| | | | | | | | | RE: push rod length -- Doug, 08/14/2004
Thanks for you help |
|