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 |  How much is this 427 really worth?!? -- Joshua Carroll, 05/17/2001
A local hot rod shop has a 427 out of an early 60s Galixe with the following specs.
bore=.60 over
stroker crank=total displacement is 581
rods=Leman
cam=solid lifter.
intake=two four barrel holleys
Motor has 0 miles since rebuild and is balanced & blue printed and complete ready to drop in. They want $7,000. Is this reasonable. I know 427s are worth a lot of money but is the motor really worth 7K? The hot rod shop is convienced it is worth 10k but the guy needs the money. I do not think he would go lower than 6.5K Thanks. |
|  | How big? -- Alan, 05/17/2001
You might want to talk to them again. I don't think you can get 581" out of a 427, maybe 481"
The price doesn't sound too far out of line for a 427 though. |
| | RE: 60 over is no good too much (nm) -- gerald, 05/17/2001
Nm |
|  | RE: How much is this 427 really worth?!? -- John R. Barnes, 05/18/2001
I have one a lot cheaper than that and it is fresh and .030 over center oiler. |
| dad , can i have your e mail add (nm) -- gerald, 05/16/2001
(nm) |
 | rear main seal leak -- eric smith, 05/16/2001
rebuilt motor from a '69 s code mach I. Only has about 1000 miles on it. changed the rear main seal twice. Upon medium to heavy acceleration I get major leakage. I go through about a quart of oil a week. Anybody know how to stop this from leaking? Is rubber better than rope? Any input would be appreciated. |
| 427 center oiler -- robbie, 05/16/2001
I'm looking for a 427 engine for a fairlane Hot Rod and have found a complete centeroiler 55000 miles and running,,what is a fair price?? and should I be holding out for a side oiler,,
Robbie |
| mr.ford can you help or someone please -- gerald, 05/15/2001
i have a nos c4ae-b solid cam i dont know the specs can you help me ? i wont to put in 428
with coae-d heads & c4ae lo rise 2-4 intake an
long 427 cast headers ,nos c0ae dule ponits dis . my 428 is outherwisestock .will thoes heads change my comp, anddo you think it will all work to gather well . imputting it in a 64 galxie xl 4speed car .
THANKYOU ALL FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE |
| | RE: mr.ford can you help or someone please -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/15/2001
C4AE-b is a 427" mech cam for 1.73 adj.rockers
should have upside down A M between journels
0.025" clearance
324 duration 500 lift 112 centerline
56 BTC- 88ABC
88BBC- 56ATC
0.050= TCD-28ABC
11BBC-3ATC
YOU should /need to convert to solid's block hyd. passages |
| | | RE: 352/390HP heads! -- Mike McQuesten, 05/15/2001
The cam is a good one. It's a bit lopey but I had one in a 427 and it was very streetable and reved well to 6,200. But now lets talk about those COAE-D heads you're thinking about. I'm guessing here but the cc on those heads is around 57-58. They are compression ratio makers to say the least. They were stock on '60 HP 352 with flat top pistons, and stock on '61 HP 390, 375/401hp and were used with dished pistons on that '61 -'90. These HP engines were rated around 10.7:1 I think. Those heads on a 428 w/flat top pistons will be very high CR. Not functional on anything but high octane racing fuel. Maybe your machinist can dish the 428 pistons or you can have a custom set of forged made, I would run forged pistons with the C-ratio you're going to have with those heads.
I'll admit that I'm running these heads on a 427. But I'm running C3J marine/industrial forged Ford pistons. They're dished similar to the '61 390 cast pistons. My machinist worked the compression ratio with the COAE-D heads(with 1.66 CJ/LR '27 exhaust valves) to be 10.5:1. I know I'll have to run high octance good stuff for most driving. But I had to do it. My 427 is dressed as a 352HP for a genuine HP '60 car. So the HP heads are a must for me. I'd recommend using a set of C4AE-G heads which are commonly available in bone yards. Big CJ valves fit nicely in them and the combustion chamber works well with 428 pistons. Still I think you'll have over 10.00:1 with flat tops. Use forged pistons. I'll trade you a set of C4AE-Gs for those COAE-6090-Ds? |
| | RE: mr.ford can you help or someone please -- Dad, 05/16/2001
Gerald, The C0AE-D heads are 59.7-62.1 cc's uncut. Using your bore and stroke assuming .030, stock .008 deck height, 12cc's dish & valve reliefs inc the 2cc for deck height you would have a 11.94 to 1 compression. Most likely you have less cc's on pistons which would bring comp even higher. |
| | RE: mr.ford can you help or someone please -- Dad, 05/17/2001
Gerald, The 66 T-Bird had pistons with approx 13cc dish + 2cc's for the .005 deck height, using a head gskt compressed to .035 & the D heads you would have approx 11.40 to 1 comp. stock would be 10.17. the 66 428 T-Bird heads had 71.2 to 74.2 cc chambers I used 72.5 for a realistic number. What I would recommend is the aluminum Edelbrock Heads they come in 2 diff Comb. cmbr sizes. 10.0 comp should be ok using the aluminum heads & 92 octane fuel. The power diff between the D & Edelbrock heads would be big time. Well worth the money as they outflow all the FE heads out of the box and can be made to flow 350cfm on intake and 250 exhaust quite easily (@ 28"h2o) The D heads are just to outdated to use with todays fuels and technology.. Dad |
| | RE: mr.ford can you help or someone please -- kevin, 05/17/2001
This cam was offered though Ford as a all around replacement for hi performance. It was an offshoot of the original 427 2-4bbl low riser cam. The difference between the two was that the Galaxie cam was ground on 114 lobe centers, and the C4-B cam was ground on 106 lobe centers. This was due to the lower octane that the Ford GT was forced to use (rules) so they dropped the compression to 10 to 1 from the original 12 to one, hence the nickname "LeMans" grind. It was ground for Ford by Holman-Moody and if im right it was ground by Larry Wallace the cam grinder there. He told me this info 30 years ago. He said that he ground these and the C8AX-D cams too. It works great in everything that I ever ran it in. |
|  | RE: mr.ford can you help or someone please -- bear, 05/19/2001
Gerald, I have a couple sets of c8ae-h heads that would be nice for street use. I have been looking for a set of coae-d heads for a motor I am putting together.
If you are interested in selling them I am interested. I agree with the edelbrock heads. I am running them and they are well worth the money considering what the cost of a remanufactured cj heads. |
| | | RE will sale heads coae-d -- gerald, 05/21/2001
i will sale theas heads for 500$ fresh from
machine shop or traid for late 406= early427
do not want sodium valves my heads in good
shape exp the same |
| | | | RE will sale heads coae-d -- bear, 05/22/2001
Gerald, no sodium valves please. are you the gerald from tennesse. |
| | | | | RE will sale heads yes its me bear (nm)# -- gerald, 05/22/2001
#
|
| motor mounts -- cd, 05/15/2001
i am replacing my 302 with a 390 in my 69 stang.can i use the same motor mounts? |
| | RE: motor mounts -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/15/2001
In a word NO ,to change from small block to FE all parts of front engine mounts -frame adpt. , insulator, and block adpt willhave ti be changed. Crites makes a kit to change these engines in Mustangs-fairlanes .Pluss there is more to do the exhaust and cooling will have to be up graded. |
| | | RE:FE in place of 302 -- Mike McQuesten, 05/15/2001
How many of you out there are thinking about how much fun cd is going to have with this swap? You're thinking, "it can be done because worker bee humans did it back in '67-'70 but they had all the resources provided". Bob's suggestion about using C. Crites' kit is a good idea if you're hell bent on doing this. I think a totaled '67-'70 big block 'stang would help you a lot too, i.e., 9" rear housing set up, trans mount, engine mounts, and all the little stuff that you'll need. I personally know of a guy that I laughed at who was intent upon installing a 428 CJ in his '69 Sports Roof Mustang 302 car. He did it! It ran and the 8" rear lasted a week before he ripped the pinion right outta the little case. The car was a cobbled mess. I would not ride in it. It was nothing but one failure after the other. But he did it damn it! Oh, one piece of advice, put a full sub frame connecting kit in it. The FE factory cars have reinforced shock towers and some additional strengthening in the unibody sub frame too. And Bob mentioned the cooling system - a whole different radiator. We could go on and on with obstacles. But it can be done. And correctly too with lots of rare parts. |
| | | | RE:FE in place of 302 -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/16/2001
The other side of the coin I think is there was only" X" number of factory big block cars made,and cajillions of small block cars. The big block cars are more valable as time goes by {soundslike a song} so one why spend extra for a origional big block car if your going to cut it up and modify it. And I think the limineted number of big blocks should be restored
MY $0.02 |
| | | | | RE:part a BB 'stang? -- Mike McQuesten, 05/16/2001
Hey Bob, I don't want you to think that I was suggesting to part/use a good/restorable big block Mustang to convert a "other" Mustang. I said a "totaled" Mustang, I mean one that is not salvagable due to a crash, rust, or otherwise. |
| | | | | | RE:part a BB 'stang? -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/16/2001
No prob I just like the early Mustang best ''67'" BEING MY PERSONEL favorite flavor, I thought they was the most beatutiful ever when they were new ,still do.
Iwant more of them on the road to show BrandC what a good looking pony car looks like!!
I just think a small block car is a better starting point for a modified ride,but more work!
Just think a tripple black, fastback ,427" , late 5/speed ,tunnel wedge intake good roller cam I'm in love. |
| crank with a micro crack -- eric, 05/14/2001
I can get a good deal on a 1U 428 crank that is std/std but it has a small microcrack that was found when it was magnafluxed. It is above one of the rod journals. The machinist said it would not be a problem if I used it as long as I wasn't going to have forced induction or high hp motor and race it. Any opinions on this? It is going into a street driven r-code Mustang. |
| | It should not go into a CJ block. -- Dave Shoe, 05/15/2001
It's cool that the crack was found.
That crank has life left in it in a cheap 390 stroker build-up with cast iron heads with headers and a nice aluminum intake, but not in a CJ of any kind. A good baffled-T oilpan is worthwhile insurance on the cheapo 390, though it'll certainly be destroyed in the explosion.
Assuming you get the crank at half price (maybe $200), you've just saved $200, but the whole engine build cost maybe $5000. When the $5000 is lost in a catastrophic failure, you'll need another $5000 just to get running again.
There is no economy putting a bad crankshaft in a valuable motor. If you want to buy it, that's fine. Put it in an engine that you can afford to explode, such as that core-shifted 390 block. It may never fail, but if it does, you're not gonna be kicking yourself forever over it. Instead, you'll be saying, "I knew it might do that."
Cracks form for a reason in iron. Either it's been overstrained sometime in it's 30+ year lifespan, or maybe it had a flaw in it's casting structure and the crack is now growing like a crack on a windshield. No matter what - it's a timebomb. Make sure you put it in an engine that can handle that factor.
Man, it would sure be a bummer to build a nice CJ knowing the crank was cracked. You'd never want to stick your foot into it or rev it out the way CJs like being revved out.
Shoe.
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| | | RE: Have the crank X-rayed -- RJP, 05/15/2001
Then you might be able to tell if its just a surface flaw or a deep crack. A surface crack or fissure should present no problems. If that be the case then I'd run it. If the shallow crack is in a un-machined area then try grinding out the crack. |
| | | | RE: Have the crank X-rayed -- eric, 05/15/2001
Thanks for the info. Does the typical machine shop have the equipment to x-ray? Is it called something else? How much does it usually cost? |
| | | | | RE: Have the crank X-rayed -- RJP, 05/15/2001
Don't know what the "trade" name for x-raying is and most machine shops will not have this equipment. You will prob. have to check with a Industrial testing lab and I don't know what the cost would be but to save a hard to find crank it might be worth it. Also it would be a shame to throw away a crank that had just a surface flaw or fissure. |
| cams for 428 c4ae-b sol some came specs please -- gerald, 05/14/2001
n/m |
| | RE: cams for 428 c4ae-b sol some came specs please -- gerald, 05/14/2001
i do know its solid |
| | | RE: cams for 428 c4ae-b sol some came specs please -- John R. Barnes, 05/19/2001
C4AE 6250 B is 63-7 427 solid lift, .025 lash, intake opens at 56 degrees BTC, intake closes at 88 degrees ABC, exhaust opens 88 degrees BBC, closes 21 degrees ATC, intake and exhaust duration 324, .500 lift at valve, overlap 112 degrees, upside down AM between distributor gear and first journal. |
| T-5 SCJ W-code -- john, 05/13/2001
In the last issue of Mustang Monthly they write about an obscure T-5 SCJ.
I am happy to tell you it is in Norway.
model year: 1969
built at: Metuchen (Edison, NJ)
bodystyle: SportsRoof
engine: 428 CID - 4V "Cobra Jet" (Ram-Air)
consecutive unit #: 172708
body series: SportsRoof - Mach 1 trim (Hi-back buckets)
estimated build date: February 12, 1969
exterior color: "Candyapple Red" (Flat Black hood paint)
interior trim: Dark Red vinyl w/ "clarion" knit vinyl inserts
ordered through (DSO): Export #91
axle ratio: 4.30:1 "Traction-Lok" (Drag-Pack)
transmission: 4-spd. manual (2.32 1st gear)
John
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| 390 oil loss mystery -- TD, 05/11/2001
Hi guy's,
I've got a warmed over 390 in a 67 GTA, headers, performer intake, carb, mild cam etc... Starts right up, no smoke out the tail, no drips on garage floor, but I seem to have lost a quart of 15-50 in 200 miles. Is this acceptable? The engine has around 5000 miles since a rebuild, runs strong and all seems well.
WHERE DOES THE OIL GO!
Thanks in advance |
| | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- Lou, 05/11/2001
If you are sure you have no leaks, I would check the PCV valve and hoses to make sure they are correctly installed. A quart in 200 miles makes me think the oil is being burnt a litle at a time but at a steady rate. |
| | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- John, 05/11/2001
I had the same problem. Too much oil to the heads and is drawn down valves and for intake gets burnt with smoke, with exhaust(yes, it can get sucked down the exhaust...think exhaust flow, not pressure), no smoke. You must restrict oil to the heads, plus type of valve seals affect it and did you install oil drip trays? Modern rings may not fully seat for 1000 miles or more, although most of your oil loss is probably down the valves. |
| | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- TD, 05/12/2001
Thanks Lou and John for the tips. I also realize I get a fairly heavy exhaust smell driving with my window down, so maybe it is burning through the heads and out the tail.
Thanks again |
| | | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- richard, 05/12/2001
dont forget if you have an intake gasket leak the oil will
seal it as it goes through the gasket so you might not notice a loss in manifold vacuum. worth a look. |
| | | | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- Steve, 05/16/2001
I recently stopped an oil loss on my 352 by changing the fuel pump. Apparently the diaphram was seeping. Went to an electric pump and gain about a quart a fillup. Worth a look? |
| | RE: 390 oil loss mystery -- Dad, 05/16/2001
TD, Do you happen to have adjustable rockers on this engine? If so thats most likely the problem as with them and without plugging the oil galley holes you will get to much oil up top to the rockers flooding them. This can be fixed by installing a Holley jet into the oil hole in head restricting the flow. A 65 to 80 Jet should do the trick. If no adjustable rockers you most likely have a ring seal problem. Time and time again I see where the engine builder puts too much oil on the rings and in cylinders, this will cause rings not to seat. This step is as important or more important than proper cam break-in. What I have found best is a very light film of WD-40 On cylinders and nothing on rings. (a small amt of #10 oil can be used on skirts)This will get you the best ring seal. Most people think the ring actually breaks in but its the opposite where the cylinder fits to the ring. Do you have access to a cylinder leakdown tester? If not borrow or buy one and you should have under 5% leakage. Leakdown rates around 15 & up show improper assy or cylinder finish/bore lr |
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