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 | Wear From Positive Seals -- John, 05/11/2001
I am in the process of rebuilding my 428 after an unknown reason caused the main bearings to prematurely wear. It was either an internal antifreeze leak or the pump sucked air. I never was quite sure which one, but the block had developed a crack in the Valley area water jacket. As long as it was apart I decided to have the positive type valve seals on the heads changed. Strange thing is, that all the exhaust valves showed excessive wear in the area where the seal rubs against the valve stem. The intake valves were OK and all bronze guides and the rest of the valve stems were OK. I used all Crane components, cam, solid lifters, dual springs, etc, except for the seals. I had purchased them, but apparently the machine shop didn't use them because they didn't have the right tool to turn down the guides, if I remember correctly. The engine only lasted a little over 2000 miles. Also, it was smoking quite a bit for the last 1000 miles, which was suspected to be because of the valve seals. The seals looked the same as the Crane ones (for what that's worth), and the Machine Shop said they use them all the time(although probably on Chevs, no doubt...hmmm..isn't there a tiny bit of valve stem diameter difference between chev and Ford valve stems?). Anyone have any idea why the valve seals would wear the valve stems? |
|  | RE: Wear From Positive Seals -- kevin, 05/12/2001
Unless you use hard chromed valve stems, and I mean good as in Eaton brand and not the junk Manleys you will wear the cheapo "flash" hard chrome off in less than 10k miles with some guide materials, when you use a teflon seal w/ring around it but not cast iron. The problem you are having sounds to me like your oil. I had an unexplainable consumption problem once and it turned out that the oil was being passed by the rings. If you switch to a lighter grade of oil you may find the cure for cheap. Try using 10w30 or just 30 weight and see what happens. Thick oil is hard for the oil control rings to scrape off the cylinder walls and that is their job. Consider the price of an oil change before you tear into it. The oil I use is Havoline and it works for me. I also use 1 qt of Mobil-1 in eveything I ever run and it makes a lot of difference in the wear patterns visable. I run straight Mobil-1 in racecars and expensive machinery ad it is worth the money to me from the protection it gives. |
|  | RE: Wear From Positive Seals -- Ross, 05/13/2001
I have been running teflon type on the intakes but stock Ford type on the exhaust for quite some time. That is if it has new guides. If they are a little worn but still good, you can run teflon on both sides.
In my opinion, the exhaust side runs too hot (dry not a problem with melting them) for the teflon seals plus vacuum on the intake side sneaks some oil to the guides but pressure on the exhaust side doesnt do much. The stock seals do fine on the exh side and keep from wearing guides |
 | secondaries kicking in? -- Paul, 05/11/2001
I am not sure my secondaries are coming on with my Edelbrock 650 on my 352. I am not feeling or really hearing the power kick in. Is there a way to test this? |
|  | RE: secondaries kicking in? -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/11/2001
Attach a small paperclip on secondary linlage so you can see if it moves when they open test drive the car,if it mover down theslot their opening at some point inthe rpm range. |
|  | RE: secondaries kicking in? -- John, 05/11/2001
Actually, if your carb is set-up properly, you won't feel or hear the transfer as the secondaries open. That "kicking-in" feeling is actually a "bog", and you don't want that kind of hesitation. Bob's paperclip idea is a good one though. |
 | FE block adaptor for AODE trans (5.0L pattern) -- Steve Boulay, 05/11/2001
Does anyone know of the availability of an adaptor to mate a small block type automatic trans to an FE block engine? If not, how/where can I get drawings with the dimensions from an FE bell housing bolt pattern. Any help will be appreciated. SGB |
 | compression ratio? -- John, 05/10/2001
With a 4.250 bore X 3.98 stroke X 77cc head it gives 13.8:1 compression. What compression would I have with 91cc head? |
|  | RE: compression ratio? -- Dave Shoe, 05/10/2001
I get 11.725:1 (precision carried out beyond LSD for comparison purposes), but I used the 410/428 stroke specification of 3.984", not the "rounded" figure of 3.98.
Shoe. |
 | General dynamics -- John, 05/09/2001
I have a general dynamics cam for my FE but have no sheet work on it. Does anyone have their number or web page as I cannot find it. Thanks! |
|  | RE: General dynamics -- gerry, 05/09/2001
Unless your FE is intalled in an F-16 Falcon fighter jet, it's going to be a General Kenetics or Cam Dymanics. I can probably hook you up easily with General Dynamics for info on the F-16, if that's really what you want.;-) |
| |  | RE: General dynamics -- John, 05/10/2001
Sorry! I Screwed up. I did find the info I needed. |
|  | RE: General Knetics -- Leo, 05/10/2001
What info have you found as they were bought out/moved years ago; used to be in Detroit, I live in the area. I'd be interested too. Leo |
 | Methods of balancing 428 flywheel -- BillP, 05/08/2001
I'm looking at buying a Fairlane with a supposed 428 in it. The block code and stroke match a 428, but when I took off the inspection plate I didn't see any external weights on the flywheel. What I did find was many small drilled holes of varying size, some all the way through the flywheel, some not. These small holes ringed the entire flywheel. My question, was this a method Ford ever used to balance 428 flywheels, or possibly a method machine shops use to balance the flywheel when converting a smaller FE into a 428? Thanks for all information from you FExperts.
Bill |
|  | Here's one perspective. -- Dave Shoe, 05/09/2001
While they are on vibration dampers, I've never seen them in the flywheel, but the designers of the Cammer apparently have.
This excellent 21 page document is available at sae.org for $13.51 as "paper number 650497".
Shoe.
 |
|  | RE: Methods of balancing 428 flywheel -- kevin, 05/09/2001
Cast iron flywheels were used on all 410-428 and have a small raised portion cast in for balance. The holes are normal if they are symetrical all the way around and about 3/4 inch from the ring gear.Ford used little pins in some holes for balance, only one usually. If its a 390 type it would have a significant # of holes in one area and a few maybe opposite depending on the skill of the man balancing it. Lets hear more info on the car |
| |  | RE: Methods of balancing 428 flywheel -- BillP, 05/09/2001
Yes, it has the raised portion with holes around the whole flywheel, just inside the teeth. I found a great site that has a picture of a 428 CJ flywheel and it looked exactly like the one I looked at in the Fairlane. Its a 68 Fairlane, the block code is C8ME, and there is something that looks like a large "C" with something in the C above the block code. I had always heard about externally balanced 428 flywheels with weights but have never looked at one...I guess I thought they looked like something else. Thanks for the information fellahs. |
|  | RE: Methods of balancing 428 flywheel -- Kam, 05/20/2001
Bill; I took a stock 390 flywheel, made a weight of 1/4" steel and mounted it in the recess on the back of the wheel with 5/16 countersunk allen bolts.
The balancing was done mounting it and a 428 flexplate on a balancing stand and adjusting the weight so the combo would stop anywhere with the flexplate & homemade weights 180 degrees from each other. Works perfect, no vibes. Don't forget to spot weld the bolt heads. Kam |
 | Renting trailers... -- StrokerFE, 05/08/2001
I'd like to rent trailers from now on becuse driving 4:11's is too much for 2-3 hours on my FE. How much is it to rent one that will hold my 66 Galaxie? who has the best deals, im in southern Michigan. 2nd question. Does it make better sence to run synthetic oil than regular? I heard about leaks but im thinking leaks will only occur with a old engine, my FE has about 5 grand on it, rebuilt 2 years ago. Price of the oil means nothing to me, if synthetic will cut down friction, i.e wear and tear in general on the strip I want it in my 390. What do you guys think, thanks.... |
|  | RE: Renting trailers... -- Lou, 05/08/2001
U-Haul get $160 for noon Friday to 8:00 AM Monday here in Connecticut. |
|  | RE: Renting trailers... -- Brian Crisman, 05/09/2001
No comment on the trailer BUT as far as the oil goes.....Once I found that Mobil 1 synthetic dropped the operating temp of my air cooled 91 Fatboy by just over 15 degrees (not a scientific test.....just observed my average temperature in similiar conditions) I figured that that is quite a drop in friction (or gain in thermal transfer) so I have been a loyal user ever since and have not a single regret. That whole leak thing is related to cars running non synthetic oil for loads of miles, then switching to synthetic.......the non synthetic "congeals" and "crusts" and block minor leaks, then when the synthetic is used, the sludge breaks down and the leaks become evident.......not the fault of the synthetic oil.
Brian Crisman 67 Cougar GT 4spd |
|  | @$160 per rental, isn't it time to think OD? -- Walker, 05/09/2001
You could make that 4.11 seem like a 3.11 (or so) with an overdrive unit. At $160 per rental, it would pay for itself in 15 weekends, not including the savings in gas costs (which are becoming more significant with each passing day).
Just a thought. |
| |  | RE: @$160 per rental, isn't it time to think OD? -- StrokerFE, 05/09/2001
Thanks for responding. Isn't time to think OD?? Dont you mean isn't time to HIT THE LOTTERY!? LOL! You know how much it is for an AOD? About $2,600 bucks! And what IF I do break something at the track and cant drive it home, im screwed bigtime becuse they dont have that kind of service at drag strips to help you get home as far as i know....> |
| | |  | You can buy a car trailer for about 2000 new . -- Lou, 05/09/2001
A bare bones car trailer goes for about $1,600 here in the NE. $2000/ $2200 should get you what you need. I had one custom made so it would pass through a 8 foot wide door and with a removeable bar so I could get the trailer with a car on it (56 Ford) into a 22 foot deep garage and close the door. That way I could store both the car and trailer in one garage space. (yes I'm talking open trailer) I can't give you a price as this was in 1984 but it wasn't much more than a off the lot unit maybe $200/$250 more. I sold the trailer with the car and have wished I had kept both it many times. |
| | | |  | RE: You can buy a car trailer for about 2000 new . -- Lou, 05/10/2001
There are usually used trailers for sale in the local car papers. Just make sure you check the tires for dry rot before you buy a used trailer or plan to buy new tires. |
| | | | |  | RE: You can buy a car trailer for about 2000 new . -- richard, 05/12/2001
you can also find plans to build your own trailer. works only if you can weld though. as far as the synthetic oil goes, use it.cars that have use conventional oils for yearsand developed leaks that were sealed by sludge would then leak after a change to synthetic because the synthetic cleans as well as lubricates. for your engine change over and have loads of fun!! |
| | | |  | RE: You can buy a car trailer for about 2000 new . -- BOB HOPKINS, 05/14/2001
A trailer is nice as long as you don't live in a subdivision that allowes them,or a garage big enough to put both inside . These idiots do not allow any trailers boat/house/camping/car so I flat tow,with a set of tow hubs and a bolt on tow bar. Takes longer to git ready and to put away at midnight . |
| | | | |  | Synthetic oil . . .. -- Orin, 05/14/2001
My daily driver is a well-maintained 1994 Volvo 960 with 135K miles on it. I recently switched to sythetic oil on the recommendation of the dealer. Gas milage went up at least 5 percent. For an older engine (but barely broken in for a Volvo!), less friction sounds like a good idea. I plan to run it another 2 years (45K miles) and with normal oil changes etc. am hoping to avoid any major maintenance. |
 | Fe -- john bach, 05/08/2001
this is fun, all you fellow ford lovers. i'm glad i stirred this up. i, again, looked up the atomic tables on the net, "periodic tables" and the listing is "Fe". and i apologize to the person i called an "idiot" no one who truly loves fords should be called that. ok? i first heard Fe engines were named after the atomic tables about 30 years ago and i'll go by that definition over all other statements. i have owned nothing but fords my entire life beginning with my firs car, a '29 model a 4dr sedan in '49. at present i own a '32 ford all steel all ford roadster, a '73 mercury montego gt and a '72 429 ranchero. i get a lot of hack about my rdstr when people ask me why didn't i put a ** in it? i say, bite your tongue. |
|  | Yup, it was published 31 years ago... -- Dave Shoe, 05/08/2001
...In the 1970 "Ford Muscle Parts Story Supplement#1", reference:
http://gessford.com/images/fordsup-29.gif
I always read the statement on that page as meaning, "Move over ferrum, there's now a second meaning for those two letters, and it runs on gasoline".
This is also apparently the catalog that first publically released the term FE. Reference:
http://gessford.com/images/fordsup-05.gif
I don't believe Ford EVER publically released the "meanings" of the MEL or FE acronym (or any other engine family name). Back in the Edsel days, "M-E-L Division" (note the dashes) was the brand new formal name for the Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln Division of Ford. I think this is the only reason why MEL is accepted as correct, however, MEL does not equal M-E-L. Still, momentum rules, and "MEL" is accepted as being correctly understood, and FE remains controversial - mainly due to some bozo writers.
Hey, the FE is not alone in this confusion. Following the precedent which Ford used to define the 351W and 351C, the oft misunderstood 351M obviously refers to the new-for-1971 "Michigan Casting Center" (fully on line in Dec 1972), not the erroneous name given it by unknowing writers of the time, and propagated by the same unqualified bozo who published the wrong family name for both the FE and 335 families (referring to the 332 family).
I agree this is fun stuff. I also suspect we'll eventually resolve this question with a definitive document.
Until then, my ears are propped and listening for a good, solid reason for calling it something other than a Ford-Edsel.
Shoe.
 |
 | C4AE-H = Ford or Edsel? -- Mike McQuesten, 05/08/2001
I like Andy's response to what FE means.....F'n Excellent says it best. What we'd like to know is what can these C4AE-H heads be? A friend just picked these heads up at the Portland swap meet last weekend. We can find nothing in any literature about these heads. One has a casting date of 3L27...12/27/63; the other, this seems strange, has a casting date of 6C29....3/29/66. The 3L27 head has the normal casting # C4AE-6090H. The 6C29 head has an abbreviated casting # C4AE-H with a group of cast knobs/bumps where the 6090 normally is. We can tell that these heads appear to be low riser heads, i.e., combustion chamber appearance & valve size. We'd always thought the low riser '27 heads were a C3AE.. castings. Any information on these would be appreciated. |
|  | RE: C4AE-H = Ford or Edsel? -- john bach, 05/08/2001
my research says it's a '64 full size (galaxie). '58-60 edsel was "K" 3rd letter is model of car. |
|  | RE: C4AE-H = Ford or Edsel? -- John R. Barnes, 05/13/2001
I have had a set for 18 years. They came off a Cobra 3151 and were stamped on the front of each head CSX 3151. I sold them but before I did they were verified by the Shelby Club to be 427 low riser. |
| |  | RE: C4AE-H = Low Riser -- Mike McQuesten, 05/14/2001
Thanks for the information John. We agree that these are definitely low riser heads. We can't find anything in print with the 'H' casting. My friend, the owner of the heads, speculates that they might be the 400 horse Marine 427 heads. I think they may be the head that was used on the very early '65 427 Galaxies which were top/center oiler low riser engines. Possibly also a running change to the '64 automotive 427 apps. Also the C4AE-H may have been the service head for low riser, hence the 1966 casting date on one of the heads. Whatever, we just know they're HP heads all done and ready to bolt on to his '64 427 running in his '61 Starliner. Thanks again. Oh, we couldn't find the Shelby codes. But we were very excited for a few minutes there. |
| | |  | RE: C4AE-H = Low Riser -- John R. Barnes, 05/15/2001
Shelby took any 427 engine he could get his hands on and CSX 3151 was an early car which fits with your information. The Shelby registration on 3151 indicates the car was a low riser. I am looking for some C5AE 6090 G casting for a 67 Galaxie W code project. Keep my number handy if you find some. They ae rare. |
| | | |  | RE: '67 W-code! -- Mike McQuesten, 05/15/2001
Talkin' about rare! A '67 Galaxie W code? You must be talkin' about the one '67 Galaxie single 4V-427/410 hp made! I'm just kidding about the one made because I really don't know but I will guess just a service station lot full of '67 Full size Fords with 427s were produced. We'll keep our eyes open for those C5AE-Gs. |
| | | | |  | Re: '67 427 -- Lou, 05/15/2001
Ford made quite a few 67 427 most were police cars, ford was trying to get rid of the engines and offered them in a police package for the same price as the 390s. The Connecticut state police had 42 or 43 of them. I went ot a police auction in 1970 and you could buy one of the cars in good running order for $600 or less. |
| | | | | |  | RE: Re: '67 427 -- John R. Barnes, 05/16/2001
Where are they now, I need the heads. John |
| | | | |  | RE: '67 W-code! -- John R. Barnes, 05/16/2001
If you go to Ford Registry.com, there is a listing of all 67 7 Litre cars produced. Mine is not a 7 Litre Sports Package but Marti Auto Works says there were two W code Galaxie XL convertibles produced and mine is the only one found so far. Thanks, John |
|  | 'C4AE-H' = 1964 version of the 2.09" intake valve LR head. [n/m] -- Mr F, 05/16/2001
n/m |
 | Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- Derek, 05/08/2001
My school (McPherson College Auto Restoration) was recently given a engine the guy said was a 429. But it is a FE design and we aren't sure which. How do you tell what it is? It is a two barrel and has a '68 casting number on the exhaust manifold.
Thanks,
Derek |
|  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- gerry, 05/08/2001
The ONLY sure way to discover the displacement, Derek, is to measure the bore and stroke. The originator didn't even know the theoretical displacement of the engine series so everything else should be suspect. If the intake is stock, it's more than likely to be a 390...if that.
There are very few slam-dunks for non-invasive identification when it comes to the FE series. |
|  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- john bach, 05/08/2001
Fe blocks ( 390-428, etc.) have a vertical wall extending up from the pan rail about 3 1/2 " to the vee of the block. 429-460 bocks (385 series) the vee extends to the bottom of the block. |
| |  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- Derek, 05/08/2001
I know it isn't a 429 or 460. It is definately a FE engine.
Derek |
| | |  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- gerry, 05/08/2001
I'm not disputing your identification of the engine's linage, but you asked how to tell what displacement FE it was. Or did I not understand that correctly? |
| | | |  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- Derek, 05/08/2001
No, thanks for replying. I was responding to John telling me how to tell the difference between a FE and a 385 series.
Derek |
| | | | |  | RE: Is it a 390, 428, or?? -- kevin, 05/09/2001
Ford did not sell the 410 or 428 with a 2-V carb, just pull the pan and look at the number on the crank, 2T is a 360 only # |
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