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 | Oil pump lifespan? -- Allen, 04/24/2001
Does anyone have an opinion on the approx. lifespan (in miles and years if you can) for a stock oil pump that hasent been out of the pan sine it was assembled? In a '91 truck that has almost 100K miles (mostly highway and around town with an overdrive tranny, no hard stuff) and has been fairly well maintained(regular oil changes and not run too ruff) any info is welcome |
 | 390 in mustang -- chris lancaster, 04/24/2001
HELP. I need to know if a 390 will fit into a 65 mustang without exstincive modifications. my stang has a 6 cyl. 3-speed trans,but i am converting over to granada front disk brakes,a 9" rear end, and i have this 69 model 390 that just wants to be fitted in my pony. If anyone can help me i would greatly appreciate it.i only gave four hundred dollars for my stang so i can afford to do some modifications. |
|  | RE: 390 in mustang -- richard, 04/25/2001
the 390 will not fit unless you cut out the shock towers. to do the you will have to install a new suspension (rod and cutom motor sports and fatman fabrications have kits to make it work). as you can see you are in for alot of work. a better way to go would be to find some one who has a 67 - 70 mustang and but that instead, or swap a 351w in to your current car. |
 | virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- Katauskas, 04/24/2001
Have not started my virgin 428 yet. I cranked the engine over about 5 minutes ago without the plugs to pre-lube. After about 5 seconds I saw oil coming from the rocker arms. Done. I also noticed from the oil pressure gauge (mechanincal) that the oil pressure was 50 lbs. I have a melling hv pump. I checked ALL bearing clearances with plasti-gauge during assembly. The 50 lb pressure during crank-over seems a little high to me. Any thoughts? |
|  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- FE427TP, 04/24/2001
I get 80psi+ at idle in the morning with 10w-40 |
| |  | RE:I agree with Bob! -- Mike McQuesten, 04/25/2001
I agree with Bob which I'm glad to do. I've primed engines his way and I know others who use this method. I can't see how any damage could be done to the cam gear, oil pump or anything. |
|  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- BOB HOPKINS, 04/25/2001
MY $0.02 You should not crank engine over to git oil up, make up or buy a pre-luber and drive oil pump with drill first to fill all oil galleys. Turn crank at 90 degreeintervels, to fill all the galleys ,reset the dist to proper timing spot crank and fire and keep RPM's up to provide proper splash lub to cam and such,much better idea. |
|  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- Gary, 04/25/2001
So did my 351W. Then within 10 miles the HV pump stripped the gears off the distributor and chipped 3 teeth on the camshaft. This is the 2nd time the HV pump ruined my engine. This may not be an issue with the 428 but DON'T put one in a 351W unless you just enjoy replacing camshafts on a daily basis. Gary |
| |  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- BOB HOPKINS, 04/25/2001
Damn I think I must have 50,000-75,000 on the high/volumn pump in my 275,000 390" 75 F-100 ,I have never had any probulms. I think this is third -fourth H/V pump I have installedin verious engines,since they became available in67-68-69.what going on lately?? |
|  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- Katauskas, 04/25/2001
I appreciate all of the responses. Sounds like everything should be OK. I'm going to fire this baby up as soon as I get the driveshaft back next week. I'll probably post some sound files soon after...can't wait. This is my first FE build. I also need to determine if I start it for the first time with open headers, or install the side pipes...ah, open headers! |
| |  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- bear, 05/01/2001
I put the mufflers on first. You never know |
|  | RE: virgin 428...oil pressure is 50 during cranking... -- John, 05/01/2001
First, 50psi sounds right for cranking, 70 to 80 psi with engine running is good. Cold oil is like molasses...thick and builds pressure...expect 20 to 25 psi at idle with engine hot. As for the Melling pump, the real experts say a HV pump is not necessary for a street engine, but I like a little insurance...just in case the pump can't build oil pressure to match the rate the engine is accelerating with respect to rpm...you get a head start with the 57MV. As far as using no muflers for start-up...not a problem...won't even be noisy unless you rev it, which you shouldn't do until it's broke in...either let it run at 1500 to 2000 to seat rings and lifters for 20 minutes, or get it out and drive it...not high rpms, but with a load on it for a bit...changing mph constantly. As far as the mufflers go, not using them won't hurt a thing. Again, the story about lack of back pressure hurting anything is hogwash. An engine is an air pump..more airflow...more horsepower..that's it, nothing else. I ran my 66 Mustang 289 with just the Y pipe for a check-out...quite quiet actually...but would have been noisy on the road under load. Take it easy and change the oil frequently until you hit about 1000 miles...then you can give it ...er...hmmm..."hell" as they say. From comments about problems I've had...use 10W30 mineral oil for break-in, then switch to 5W50 synthetic after that, unless you live in a perpetually warm climate, where 10W40 mineral oil seems to be OK. |
 | date codes on my 428 engine in my 68 Shelby -- dennis lasseter, 04/24/2001
I am having a hard time finding the engine date code for my shelby.Its a 68 GT500 built 04M which I think is 4th day of December,It was sold new in January 68. I found a casting date under the oil filter of 7H9.There is not a serial number I can see behind the drivers side head on that flat pad on the block.The car number is 00051 so its a early car.Please help me to figure out what 7H9 is and why it wouldnt have a serial number on the pad(its still rough cast so one wasnt ground off or something) Thanking you in advance Dennis |
|  | Re: 8/9/67 -- Mike McQuesten, 04/24/2001
The block in your car was cast August 9, 1967. |
 | FE Valve Train Oil Restriction -- Bo Fabre, 04/24/2001
Has anyone had any problems created by restricting the oil flow to the valvetrain? My 390GT has CJ heads that were already restricted with a small alan head plug drilled and tapped into oiling hole. The center of plug is drilled with small hole.Seems like lifter and valvetrian noise is a little excessive after a hard pull thru the gears. Idle sounds ok. Cam is Comp 268 hydraulic, stock non-adjustable valvetrain. Oil pressure is 30 psi at idle, 50-60 at speed. |
|  | RE: FE Valve Train Oil Restriction -- Al, 04/24/2001
My 360 had a flow proablem at the rocker shafts after some work on it. Valve train made loud clackin noise, burned & leaked oil. I had just changed the oil and put lifters in it and it freeded up some sludge. Cleanend off the shaft and torqued down rails in 3 incraments with engine idlin so I could sneek up on 40lbs. lifters primed up and no more noise. Any ostruction is bad , sludge or a plug Im thinkin. |
|  | RE: FE Valve Train Oil Restriction -- Mike McQuesten, 04/25/2001
I ran a similar oil restriction system in my 428 CJ with no problems at all. Restricting oil there should not cause lifter clatter or any other valve train noises. My machinist/builder who built my current 427 thinks the restrictors are a good idea in an FE with oil system improvement modifications. He knows what he's doing. He has built racing/performance engines for many years. Currently is running Bonneville race '32 Ford with destroked & bored 427 cammer. |
 | manifold i d -- dirty dog, 04/23/2001
I have a dual quad set up with an aluminum manifold and I can't find an id #. It has FoMoCo cast on one side in the middle and the firing order on the other side. It measures to be a MR--- Did Ford only make one style MR 8V ? |
|  | Might be the intake for '67 Fairlane/Comet [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/24/2001
n/m |
|  | 66 fairlane 2x4 -- JACK, 04/24/2001
66 427 fairlane has no part number on the 2x4 intake. 67 had the c7ae number. hope this helps. |
 | Sidewinder or PI -- BrettL, 04/23/2001
What is the going rate for a good condition Sidewinder or PI manifold? |
| ![Collapse <a href=../ForumFE/reply.aspx?ID=6098&Reply=6092><img src=../images/reply.png width=30 height=10></a> <b>PIs start at ~$325 from reputable vendors. [n/m]</b> -- <font color=#0000ff>Mr F, <i>04/24/2001</i></font><br /><blockquote>n/m </blockquote>](/WebResource.axd?d=5j1V7IJBhc-qdmzmrXlobnIqmhtzkDyEIo6SWWJSeSuj06UJMWAuuPkKooKj7KSFxViq1U4IBtqdCJuWZPog6gQf_jpX7iWua47wJG8gohjuqUYrBpcQ8NNyzLv4WRkN0&t=637814653746327080) | PIs start at ~$325 from reputable vendors. [n/m] -- Mr F, 04/24/2001
n/m |
 | Grading 427 Service blocks question -- dbuggs, 04/23/2001
Did Ford grade 427 sideoilers? I'm guessing for example the best block to racing, the next best to boats and the worst to industrial use. If they did grade blocks what was the criteria? How can one tell the difference? Any help is appreciated, Thanks D |
|  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- Dave Shoe, 04/23/2001
I've sorta decided they did not grade engines. The mission of the blocks would most likely have been known prior to being cast.
The motor mount bosses on marine blocks would logically be flycut prior to boring, honing, and sonic checking the blocks, therefore 427 marine blocks would necessarily be "predefined" as marine blocks, not selected due to core shift, or whatever. Marine blocks apparently get their motor mount bosses flycut on the main FE production line - a line that destroys the side oiler passage to the extent the block can only be drilled as a center oiler.
Some race-only 427 blocks would probably have gotten a special softer iron alloy which would not necessarily be as durable on the street, but could handle extra pounding on the track.
I assume different nodular and nickel alloys would have been tried over the years, with the final batch of 427s (cast in 1972 at Ford's Australian foundry) getting a unique (and maybe new) "hi-phosphorous" iron alloy, an alloy I remain unfamiliar with as phosphorous is typically considered a contaminant in nodular iron.
The alloy selected would have logically been optimized for the application. Most 427 blocks, whether street, marine, or 427 industrial would have likely gotten their iron from the standard block line, because this alloy would be best suited to both durability and long life. I expect this alloy would have been either moderately nodular from the storage furnace, or the nodularity enhanced when pouring iron into the mold.
I'm still researching the layout structure if the Dearborn and Cleveland Foundries. I've learned a bunch about the Michigan Center already, and understand it had four grey iron lines and one nodular iron line. I'm also researching steels and irons, a topic which becomes interesting once the proper books are found.
One unique property of 427 blocks is that many of them from around 1965 through 1967 or so (my guess) also got stress relieved for about 24 hours in an oven prior to being machined. I doubt any marine or industrial motors of this period got the "oven" treatment (due to cost competition issues), but I expect many 427 street and 427 race blocks from this era did get the extra attention.
Shoe. |
| |  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- dirty dog, 04/23/2001
i have a replicar with a 67 sideoiler C7AE-A block . This block came out of a boat in Florida, I think that's the story I was led to believe. Are you saying if this was a marine block , then it would have been turned into a centeroiler?? |
| | |  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- Dave Shoe, 04/24/2001
Keep in mind I'm not speaking fact here, I'm only guessing my best, based on info I've read.
Many of the marine 427s were cast as side oilers (because that was the available 427 pattern at the time) but drilled as center oilers because it was a cheaper machining process (drilling for side oiling was not done on the main production line) and thus allowed Ford to meet the competitive cost constraints of the marine market. Chrysler, GM, and others all had competitively priced marine offerings, so pricing was no small challenge.
A minority of marine 427s apparently got drilled as side oilers.
When boat manufacturers signed a contract to order a quantity of marine motors from Ford, I'm sure Ford had "checklists" of options, allowing a variety of features for the motors - with a pricetag to go along with the features selected.
Rumor has it the Chris Craft (sp?) had the largest contracts and so most marine motors you find will likely be from a Chris Craft order. The most common ones seem to be 300HP brass core plugged center oilers which used sideoiler blocks. A 400 horse 427 was also available, but I don't presently know if that was drilled as a side oiler - I suspect not.
Other companies who ordered marine motors from Ford apparently selected the side oiler "option" for their contracts - certainly they paid a little more for this manual machining feature. I sorta suspect that marine motors that were drilled as side oilers may have actually been forged steel crankshaft contracts, and Ford just automatically drilled forged crankshaft blocks as side oilers - the price increase may have been built into the crankshaft option. Also, some marine motors got steel (or iron?) core plugs instead of the brass plugs - I suspect as a cost savings or perhaps to stiffen the block for performance reasons. I don't know what kind of horsepower these "smaller contract" engines would have been rated at, though I'm sure many fell into the 300 HP and 400 HP slots, with some contracts certainly being built up for much more horsepower.
Hey - don't look for much fact from me when talking marine motors. I'm just looking for info along with everybody else - I simply tend to repeat it a little more often, and also hypothesize as I go along. I do continue to slowly learn more, however.
Shoe. |
| | | |  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- dirty dog, 04/24/2001
Thanks for the response Dave. Now can you give me a idea of what I can do to find out which oiling system this block has ? Do you know the difference in operating oil pressure between the two blocks. Pat Ganahl's Ford Performance Book states that Bud Gilbert at Louie Unser's engine shop says that FE engines in general need at least 60psi oil pressure at all times---Is this accurate?? Does the centeroiler run more pressure because of the smaller passages? When I get mine hot the oil pressure will fall below 60 and run between 50 & 55 depending on the RPM. Is this adequate? Thanks again! |
| | | | |  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- dbuggs, 04/25/2001
Thanks for the help Shoe. Man you do hold some interesting info. Don |
|  | RE: Grading 427 Service blocks question -- 67comet427, 04/26/2001
Most of the inland engines I have found here in the western states had complete assemblies just as would have been put in a Fairlane or Comet & date coded as such. They were very plentiful out here and complete boats could be purchased with good running engines for much less than engines alone were worth. Depending on the builder but some had a 1/2" pipe fitting in the end of each head but the rest of assy was off the shelf. Some reverse rotation engines were also built and would be found in more coastal areas like California.
An easy way to identify the 427 Blocks are the 63-67 were solid lifter only, Starting mid 65 they went to the Side oiler blocks. The also had the service replacement block which were hydraulic blocks (identified by lifter galley plugs at end of block) they also had ribs on side of block to help identify them as a higher nickel content. Any of the side oiler blocks can be identified by the cast in tube running down drivers side along with the 1/4 & 1/8" pipe plugs along with the special threaded plug on machined surface of block at front. All blocks had a date code stamped in them at the left front below oil filter adaptor. An easy way to identify a steel crank is to remove distributor and look down to see if it has threadin plugs or push in plugs with snaprings also the Steel crank would have different finish. This can also be used to see what rods are in the block with out any teardown. |
 | 428 race tech ? -- Jim Haas, 04/22/2001
I am preparing a 69 428 CJ 4 speed hardtop for Stock Appearing racing. I am somewhat vague on this engine.
1) what are the **BEST** cast exhaust manifolds that will fit a 69 428 Fairlane, even if they came on another chassis ? I hear there are some good flowing *header style* manifolds on other chassis ? Where can they be found reasonably ?
2) how many cubic inches can I get using a 69-428 block and a stroker thinking idea....? what crank is the best combo for max cubic inches using a 428 block ?
3) wil stock style, widened, 15x8 Magnum 500 rims fit the rear on a hardtop body, and if so any idea on the wheel backset spacing ?
4) does anybody have any experience with a hydraulic roller cam in an FE engine ?
5) has anybody used Caltrak bars on these cars with success ?
thanx in advance, Jim |
|  | RE: 428 race tech ? -- Rusty, 04/23/2001
what class racing will you be doing? Can you run headers? You can stroke a 428 crank some, but that requires a custom piston. You can get about 445 inches with a stock stroke crank. Can you run an aftermarket wheel? Can you run a solid roller?? I've got a 428 CJ stock eliminator 69 mustang that can only use bolt on traction bars. I've used the Calvert bars for about 7 years. They are the best you can buy for this type of application. Rusty |
| |  | RE: 428 race tech ? -- Jim Haas, 04/23/2001
here we go> Stock Appearing means anything goes, must *look* stock ,and *sound* stock . Cubic inches are not a tech item....all parts must be from year car claimed.
no headers, factory manifolds only and 2.5" exhaust.
factory wheels only, re-sizing okay
solid roller okay, must have 15" vacuum at 1200 rpm
anything else ? |
| | |  | RE: ex.manifolds -- Mike McQuesten, 04/27/2001
Know this is late but just saw it. The only stock manifolds that'll fit your 'lane are the original CJ. You may be asking about the header style manifolds that are basically in three forms: early "shorty" header style manifolds that started with '60 352 HP and were used on 390/406HP apps along with Police apps through '64. Then there was the "long" style that came into use with '63 and rumored late '62. These were used in Galaxies through '64. Then the next version of the "long" style which are designed for the '65 & up Galaxie FE apps. None of these great manifolds will fit a unibody Ford product without elimination of the shock towers. Sorry. CJ manifolds are the best you can do. |
| | | |  | RE: ex.manifolds -- Jim Haas, 04/29/2001
Thanx for the reply Mike. I was not sure what I could use. I saw a 62 406 tri-power 4 speed Galaxie this weekend and it had the ram log style.
Jim |
 | 390 Carb. -- Rob, 04/22/2001
Would like to put an aftermarket Carb on my 1963 390 . Was thinking of an Edelbrock 600 CFM (model 1406). Have the following questions . 1 - Will it work / fit on the original cast iron manifold ? 2 - Do I need to keep the original Carb. spacer (the one the coolant runs through)? Or can I get rid of it ?
Thanks , Rob |
|  | RE: 390 Carb. -- BOB HOPKINS, 04/24/2001
My $0.02 Have not heard many good reports on Edelbrock carbs,I think I would go with a Holley 600-750 vacumn secondery ,you can leeve out heated spacer, but should git a phinolac{plastic} one 1/4" to1" with the 4 hole design to replace it.Also look around at swap meets and find a alumunum manafold to replace that cast iron backbraker, a Edelbrock RPM, Ford aluminum or such. |
| |  | RE: Edelbrock carbs -- Mike McQuesten, 04/24/2001
I have a different perspective on Edelbrock carbs than Bob. I've run three of them, two at one time! I ran two new E-brock, manual choke 500s with an old Offenhaeuser intake on a 428 CJ. This combination looked cool and ran well but no better E.T./mph than the PI intake/original Holley 735. There were absolutely no problems, save for even worse fuel mileage, with these carbs. I ran them right out of the box using Edelbrocks linkage kit. At this time I was also running a Schneider solid lifter cam that was similar to the stock 306 degree Ford Cam. Next I tried a new Edelbrock Performer intake with a Edelbrock 750 manual choke. There was an initial slight bog from the line with this combo. So I called Edelbrocks tech support line and the nice guy advised me to go to a different step up springs with larger metering rods. I bought an E-brock "Strip Kit" that came with various sized jets, metering rods and springs. I followed the tech guy's directions and read the booklet that came with the carb. It took minutes to make the changes and there was no gas leak mess to clean up. This took care of the bog. Power and acceleration were excellent with this combination. E.T./mph were still 13.7ish, low 100's mph. I recammed the CJ for the fourth time to SVT's one FE cam. This cam is a nice RV stick. I was running this engine in a 3,800 lb. '61 Starliner w/C-6, 3.89 rear. The ET went to low 14's/high 90's mph. This was on purpose since I was planning on installing this into my '68 F100 for utiltiy use. That's what I did and that Edelbrock 750 worked perfectly well. I did add a Mallory 110 electric fuel pump. I don't mean to be speaking badly of Holleys. I like 'em when they're not leaking and they're floats aren't stuck. So my recommendation is to run an Edelbrock performer with their 600 and you'll be pleased. No, I don't work for Edelbrock but I'm pleased with their FE product development. Have you seen that new FE Victor manifold thats available in a couple of weeks? |
| | |  | RE: Edelbrock carbs -- richard, 04/25/2001
run a 600 holley or edelbrock as either may need tuning out of the box any way. as fas as the spacer goes if you live in a cold winter climate keep it as it is very useful. in a warmer climate use a nonheated spacer of the same thickness. |
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